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Anyone else jealous of the Panthers right now?

Sean : 9/24/2021 7:44 am
David Tepper bought the Panthers a few years ago, and 2019 was the year he started putting his stamp on the organization. His quote about overhauling the football operations back in 2019 was debated (linked below).

A lot of us on BBI, myself included wanted Matt Rhule. The Giants never even had the chance to talk to him. Yes, Rhule called the Giants with the opportunity to match, but it was way too late. Why didn’t ownership talk to Rhule? Because they let Tepper dictate the negotiation. Tepper flew to Waco to pitch Rhule, the Giants waited for Rhule to come to them. Tepper closed the deal.

Both the Giants & Panthers were in a similar spot after 2019. The difference is, the Giants hired Judge and pretty much stopped there. The Panthers hired Rhule and it was clear they immediately had a clear plan in place. The team FULLY committed to defense in the 2020 & 2021 drafts. A clear vision for what the team will look like.

The Panthers retained GM Marty Hurney after 2019, but only briefly. Hurney was fired last December and a new GM was brought in to work with Rhule.

Lastly, the Panthers trade for Darnold for pennies on the dollar, and Darnold is now playing better after being saddled with Gase.

I’m not bailing on Judge, Rhule has much more support in Carolina. But, this is another example of many BBI’ers calling all of this in real time. Tepper knew what was needed and executed, the Giants didn’t.

The Giants are ALWAYS reactive. It is always a game of whac-a-mole trying to address needs. There never seems to be a vision for building a team. Continuing to use the draft to reach for needs.

It is very frustrating. The Panthers very well make the playoffs this year while the Giants may struggle to finish 6-11. When will it finally hit home with Mara?
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Not jealous of the Panthers  
JonC : 9/24/2021 10:11 am : link
but completely sick and tired of the reactive nature of NYG's front office.
RE: Never going to be jealous of any team  
ajr2456 : 9/24/2021 10:12 am : link
In comment 15381041 kdog77 said:
Quote:
that has never won a Super Bowl.

Matt Rhule has 8 wins and 11 losses as an NFL head coach. Let's see him get his team to a winning record and a division title or deep into the playoffs before we anoint him as the second coming of Bill Parcells.

For all the hot take artists on twitter and the media telling everyone that McVay, Shanahan, Stefanski, LaFleur and Rhule are the new cool kids in the NFL making all the right moves, they still have a collective 0 Super Bowl rings among them. It is hard to win in the NFL and even the best coaches rarely win the whole thing more than once.


Those guys have been head coaches for what, 5 years maybe? Two of them went to a Super Bowl. Stefanski was a fumble through the end zone away from possibly beating the Chiefs last year.

And to be fair, many anointed Judge after last season.
LOL  
ZogZerg : 9/24/2021 10:12 am : link
You guys need help...
RE: RE: RE: There was a time not long ago  
BrettNYG10 : 9/24/2021 10:12 am : link
In comment 15381045 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15381037 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 15381028 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


when Indy was the next big thing. Great drafts, upward trajectory, and now they are are looking down the barrel at 0-3.

Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.



I'm a fan of what the Colts have done. They have had a brutal schedule to start the year. They're a good QB away from competing IMO.



Aren’t lost teams? I’d consider Daniel Jones last week an example of a good QB. If he plays like that 75% of the time we likely go to the playoffs. No idea if that will happen but a good half the league or so is in this boat.


This is certainly true. I guess I'd phrase it this way: I think if the Colts acquired Stafford they'd be a top five contender - and would win 12-14 games. I think the Giants would be a playoff contender if they acquired Stafford and would likely be in the 8-11 win range.

I'm not sure if that makes my point clear.
RE: Not jealous of the Panthers  
Sean : 9/24/2021 10:16 am : link
In comment 15381048 JonC said:
Quote:
but completely sick and tired of the reactive nature of NYG's front office.

That’s my point. I think the Giants process is lacking, and both teams had a fork in the road after 2019.

Hope I’m wrong and this team goes 10-7.
I’m not jealous  
The_Boss : 9/24/2021 10:16 am : link
But I am tired of seeing teams retool/rebuild faster than the snails pace we’re experiencing..Cleveland, Arizona, Carolina, Chargers, maybe even fucking Philadelphia..
They won't  
JonC : 9/24/2021 10:17 am : link
too many things are systemically broken.
RE: People on this board always  
UConn4523 : 9/24/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15381040 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Point to “the needle moving in the right direction” after the Giants beat a couple of bad teams at the end of every year, but now beating bad teams is meaningless?

Which one is it? At the end of the day the Panthers are 3-0 and we’re 0-2. Unless they go 2-12 they’ll likely end up with a better record than the Giants, so yea I’d probably take the Panthers situation over ours.

Lots of good young players on defense, still on reasonable contracts. Moore, CMC, Darnold on offense with Brady running the show and this offseason they’ll probably invest on that side similarly to how they did on the defense year 1.

For a board that loves to talk about trajectories, id take the Panthers trajectory over ours.


The OP asked if we’re jealous, not if the needle is moving.
Good post  
widmerseyebrow : 9/24/2021 10:18 am : link
Like others said, lets see the records in 3 weeks, but all the points you mentioned make for a good case study. There are a few tough guys here who want to dismiss these first 2-3 weeks as if the last 10 years of Giants mismanagement didn't happen. I'm not so confident the Gmen have outsmarted anyone yet.
Good post, but...  
The Jake : 9/24/2021 10:18 am : link
you did yourself a disservice by phrasing it as "jealous" of the Panthers, and many here have zeroed in on that word as opposed to the point being made in this post -

The Panthers are an organization with a clear vision and direction, which leads to quality play on the field. The Giants are an organization lost in the wilderness.

As for jealousy, we have 4 super bowl titles to their 0, including some of the most iconic games in NFL playoff history. C'mon man.
John Mara...  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:19 am : link
Who was influential in convincing his old man that the trade to bring Eli Manning here was needed, and who along with Accorsi, realized that they had to do whatever it took to complete the deal.

Also the guy who when not one single person in this town, not fans, not media, and probably not even many people within that organization still thought Tom Coughlin was the right man for the job, stayed calm and kept Coughlin on.

2 decisions that lead to 2 recent Super Bowls.

I know people here think they are no big deal, especially 2011, but they are damn hard to win. In general, it's just plain hard to win in this league period. Very few franchises find ways to consistently win and put actual titles on the board. And if you think we are alone in experiencing a down period of years, you're fooling yourself. The Patriots were the gold standard for 20 years but are finding out what life without Tom Brady is like. The Steelers do a really nice job with consistency but even they have as many titles as we do since the turn of the century.

What is this grand plan of Tepper's? Seems to me it was to just throw the most money at the name most hyped for his head coaching vacancy. This thread is totally crazy.

Win or lose, this weekend we are inducting our former franchise QB into the ring of honor and retiring his number. Do you know how rare it is in football for a player to achieve that status? Just my opinion but it seems pretty laughable to be jealous of the Panthers or really any team in this league. Seriously, why even bother being a Giants fan?
RE: Good post, but...  
Sean : 9/24/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15381063 The Jake said:
Quote:
you did yourself a disservice by phrasing it as "jealous" of the Panthers, and many here have zeroed in on that word as opposed to the point being made in this post -

The Panthers are an organization with a clear vision and direction, which leads to quality play on the field. The Giants are an organization lost in the wilderness.

As for jealousy, we have 4 super bowl titles to their 0, including some of the most iconic games in NFL playoff history. C'mon man.

Yes. If I could edit the title I would. Of course from a historic standpoint, the Panthers are less than nothing compared to the Giants.

My point is the process since 2019.
Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
Go Terps : 9/24/2021 10:22 am : link
And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.
RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.


That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?
again anyone jealous of Rhule right now missed last season  
Eric on Li : 9/24/2021 10:25 am : link
and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?

but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.

you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.
well  
Platos : 9/24/2021 10:25 am : link
"The Panthers retained GM Marty Hurney after 2019, but only briefly. Hurney was fired last December and a new GM was brought in to work with Rhule."

isn't this what people dont want to happen with Judge but its ok for carolina?

also Tepper going hard for Rhule was his gamble. look at a much more established college coach in Meyer looking a mess in the NFL.

if Rhule was a bum we wouldn't be talking about this.
RE: RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
Go Terps : 9/24/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15381073 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:


Quote:


And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.



That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?


The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.
Not really  
ghost718 : 9/24/2021 10:25 am : link
that coaching search was not gonna be a winner for the Giants

I was so happy the Giants didn't get Rhule,I didn't even watch Judge's introductory press conference.Not until after the draft,than I saw what we were dealing with.

RE: RE: RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:27 am : link
In comment 15381077 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15381073 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:


Quote:


And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.



That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?



The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.


O yea? What's their plan as far as you know?
RE: again anyone jealous of Rhule right now missed last season  
ajr2456 : 9/24/2021 10:28 am : link
In comment 15381074 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?

but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.

you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.


I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?

The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.
I don't see how Rhule would have changed anything  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/24/2021 10:29 am : link
...we have a collected of mostly below average players, with a handful of slightly above average players.
RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
Sean : 9/24/2021 10:29 am : link
In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.

A lot of these responses reinforce the issues with the Giants. Clinging to historic success to dismiss a current lack of organizational foresight.

The Super Bowls in 2007 & 2011 have no relevance to today. The league has changed. 15-35 under the current GM.

Here is where I’m jealous: an owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled.

Why do so many Giant fans not demand better? A lot of these same Giant fans are Yankee fans who always expect a World Series every year. Where is that standard with the Giants? This team hasn’t won the division since 2011!

And maybe the Panthers plan won’t work, but at least they have one.
RE: would I rather have Tepper?  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/24/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15380953 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I don't know. Sounds nice now but really don't have a clue long term. Take a look at the richest owners in the league and there's really no correlation to winning.


The ironic part is the same people that love Tepper and the analytics crew gloss over the fact they gave CMC a huge contract. It’s not that the positional value is low for what they give you, it’s that the injury factor is baked into the contract. So it’s a gamble, but to win a Super Bowl you need some gambles to pay off, like your stud RB to stay healthy or be healthy for the Playoffs.

What they did do right was they shut him down last year when it was apparent they were a long shot and even if they did make playoffs would certainly fizzle out. Unfortunately, I never see the Giants ever considering doing that with Saquon, in fact they rushed him back year 2 with a rookie QB, why? I think people throwing dirt on Saquons grave right now are being ridiculous, if by seasons end he looks like he does, sure, but two games after a major injury with once again a makeshift line? This thread is just another countless example of people using the first glimmer of anything to scream from the rooftops that they were right and everyone else is wrong. Things haven’t even been close to be decided yet. It’s like context doesn’t matter to anyone, especially with a ridiculous small sample size.
2022 Draft  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:31 am : link
NYG has 9 picks total (5 in rounds 1-3)

Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)

So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.

In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?
RE: RE: again anyone jealous of Rhule right now missed last season  
Eric on Li : 9/24/2021 10:34 am : link
In comment 15381082 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15381074 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?

but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.

you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.



I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?

The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.


it would prove the point as much as it would prove the point that the NYG are on a better track because they won more games last year.

which is to say that neither proves anything.

in terms of the hypothetical presented, I feel confident the NYG will win any games their defense keeps the opposition under 10 points. Which is essentially what happened in all 3 games for Carolina so far (the Jets got a garbage time TD with like a minute left to go from 8 pts to 14).
RE: 2022 Draft  
Go Terps : 9/24/2021 10:34 am : link
In comment 15381088 Chris684 said:
Quote:
NYG has 9 picks total (5 in rounds 1-3)

Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)

So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.

In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?


The Giants could have 20 draft picks next year and it wouldn't matter because of the people making the picks. Look at their first rounders since 2018. Our if you want to go back farther, since 2012.

The Giants scout poorly, they draft poorly, they allocate their resources poorly.
simply  
GiantsLaw : 9/24/2021 10:34 am : link
no. not jealous.
RE: RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
Scooter185 : 9/24/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15381085 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:


Quote:


And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.


A lot of these responses reinforce the issues with the Giants. Clinging to historic success to dismiss a current lack of organizational foresight.

The Super Bowls in 2007 & 2011 have no relevance to today. The league has changed. 15-35 under the current GM.

Here is where I’m jealous: an owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled.

Why do so many Giant fans not demand better? A lot of these same Giant fans are Yankee fans who always expect a World Series every year. Where is that standard with the Giants? This team hasn’t won the division since 2011!

And maybe the Panthers plan won’t work, but at least they have one.


Yankees fans have pitchforks ready and it's been only 2 years more since their championship. No one is saying "oh well we won a WS 12 years ago so everything is fine"
RE: RE: 2022 Draft  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:37 am : link
In comment 15381091 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15381088 Chris684 said:


Quote:


NYG has 9 picks total (5 in rounds 1-3)

Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)

So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.

In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?



The Giants could have 20 draft picks next year and it wouldn't matter because of the people making the picks. Look at their first rounders since 2018. Our if you want to go back farther, since 2012.

The Giants scout poorly, they draft poorly, they allocate their resources poorly.


What do drafts prior to Joe Judge being here have to do with anything?

The last 2 drafts are looking fine right now. A little bit incomplete but they have improved.

See, you want people on the other side of the argument not to talk about the past, then when they talk about the future, you bring things back to the past.
So the Panthers have a plan  
UConn4523 : 9/24/2021 10:38 am : link
but if it may not work, what good is it? How does one prove who has a plan and who doesn’t? I love these threads.
RE: John Mara...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/24/2021 10:38 am : link
In comment 15381065 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Who was influential in convincing his old man that the trade to bring Eli Manning here was needed, and who along with Accorsi, realized that they had to do whatever it took to complete the deal.

Also the guy who when not one single person in this town, not fans, not media, and probably not even many people within that organization still thought Tom Coughlin was the right man for the job, stayed calm and kept Coughlin on.

2 decisions that lead to 2 recent Super Bowls.

I know people here think they are no big deal, especially 2011, but they are damn hard to win. In general, it's just plain hard to win in this league period. Very few franchises find ways to consistently win and put actual titles on the board. And if you think we are alone in experiencing a down period of years, you're fooling yourself. The Patriots were the gold standard for 20 years but are finding out what life without Tom Brady is like. The Steelers do a really nice job with consistency but even they have as many titles as we do since the turn of the century.

What is this grand plan of Tepper's? Seems to me it was to just throw the most money at the name most hyped for his head coaching vacancy. This thread is totally crazy.

Win or lose, this weekend we are inducting our former franchise QB into the ring of honor and retiring his number. Do you know how rare it is in football for a player to achieve that status? Just my opinion but it seems pretty laughable to be jealous of the Panthers or really any team in this league. Seriously, why even bother being a Giants fan?


This is a good post - I'm unfamiliar in John Mara's role in the Eli acquisition, but he deserves a lot of credit for retaining TC in 2006.
RE: RE: RE: again anyone jealous of Rhule right now missed last season  
ajr2456 : 9/24/2021 10:39 am : link
In comment 15381090 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15381082 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15381074 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?

but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.

you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.



I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?

The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.



it would prove the point as much as it would prove the point that the NYG are on a better track because they won more games last year.

which is to say that neither proves anything.

in terms of the hypothetical presented, I feel confident the NYG will win any games their defense keeps the opposition under 10 points. Which is essentially what happened in all 3 games for Carolina so far (the Jets got a garbage time TD with like a minute left to go from 8 pts to 14).


What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?
RE: RE: RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
BigBlueShock : 9/24/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15381077 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15381073 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:


Quote:


And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.



That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?



The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.

What’s the plan? They already signed a RB to an enormous contract, which is a no no according to you. Is part of their plan to also sign a mediocre QB to a $30M/per contract next? Because they have to make that decision sooner rather than later. Or are they going to drag it out with Darnold and then have to reset at the QB position in another year? Whatever “plan” they have that is so clear to you seems to go against everything you preach about. But it’s not the Giants so they must be awesome
RE: 2022 Draft  
ajr2456 : 9/24/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15381088 Chris684 said:
Quote:
NYG has 9 picks total (5 in rounds 1-3)

Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)

So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.

In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?


The Panthers have drafted well the last two years, that’s how.
Which draft situation would you prefer for 2022?  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:41 am : link
Keeping in mind the 2022 draft is considered massive given the eligibility/covid lag.

9 picks overall with 5 premium?

or

6 picks overall with 2 premium?

The whole Panthers "plan" thing is bullshit. And the Giants are, as a matter of fact, better position to move forward in terms of next year's draft.
RE: RE: RE: RE: again anyone jealous of Rhule right now missed last season  
Eric on Li : 9/24/2021 10:41 am : link
In comment 15381101 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15381090 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15381082 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15381074 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?

but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.

you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.



I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?

The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.



it would prove the point as much as it would prove the point that the NYG are on a better track because they won more games last year.

which is to say that neither proves anything.

in terms of the hypothetical presented, I feel confident the NYG will win any games their defense keeps the opposition under 10 points. Which is essentially what happened in all 3 games for Carolina so far (the Jets got a garbage time TD with like a minute left to go from 8 pts to 14).



What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?


Did the Panthers have a very good chance of wining more games than the NYG last year when they were 3-2 and the NYG were 0-5? How did that end up?

both of them are losing teams until they have winning records over a full season. if you want to take signs of encouragement from a partial season go right ahead but at least be consistent.
RE: RE: RE: We got DG from CAR!!!  
The Jake : 9/24/2021 10:42 am : link
In comment 15381031 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Let's see, the Panthers record prior to gettleman. They made the playoffs once in 7 years and finished 8-8 or worse every year except the 1 playoff year. They finished 1st only once.. When Dave became GM they made the playoffs 3 out of the 4 years and went right back to losing after he left, which lead to Rivera getting fired. 2 straight losing seasons. They had another losing record last year.

but don't let facts get in the way of a good gettleman bashing.

Oh, and cam newtons mvp year was 2015 and gettleman was the gm at that time. Damn, more of those pesky facts again


This is a good example of "correlation does not equal causation." Just because DG happened to be present when Carolina had a couple of good seasons, doesn't mean he deserves credit for those seasons. In fact, one could argue that he damaged that franchise in his tenure there, similar to what he's doing now.

1. Traded Jon Beason to the Giants - Jon Beason called him unprofessional on the way out the door and said he was taking a "my way or the highway" approach with all of Carolina's veterans. Beason also claimed that DG accused him of faking an injury.
2. Public falling out with the best player in Carolina franchise history - Steve Smith
3. Public falling out with DeAngelo Williams
4. Public falling out with Josh Norman and curiously rescinded his franchise tag in 2017. This is probably where he lost the locker room.
5. Draft blunders - Kelvin Benjamin (2x), Kony Ealy, Devin Funchess, Vernon Butler. Sure, he drafted McCaffery (touched by the hand of God too?) and Bradberry, but that's two good players in 4 drafts from 2014 to 2017.

And the most important part? The players hated the guy. That's why he was canned in July 2017, right before training camp was about to open. Because of "unrest" in the locker room.

How that resume was viewed as worthy of the GM of the NY Giants is beyond any kind of logic.
RE: RE: John Mara...  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:42 am : link
In comment 15381099 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 15381065 Chris684 said:


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Who was influential in convincing his old man that the trade to bring Eli Manning here was needed, and who along with Accorsi, realized that they had to do whatever it took to complete the deal.

Also the guy who when not one single person in this town, not fans, not media, and probably not even many people within that organization still thought Tom Coughlin was the right man for the job, stayed calm and kept Coughlin on.

2 decisions that lead to 2 recent Super Bowls.

I know people here think they are no big deal, especially 2011, but they are damn hard to win. In general, it's just plain hard to win in this league period. Very few franchises find ways to consistently win and put actual titles on the board. And if you think we are alone in experiencing a down period of years, you're fooling yourself. The Patriots were the gold standard for 20 years but are finding out what life without Tom Brady is like. The Steelers do a really nice job with consistency but even they have as many titles as we do since the turn of the century.

What is this grand plan of Tepper's? Seems to me it was to just throw the most money at the name most hyped for his head coaching vacancy. This thread is totally crazy.

Win or lose, this weekend we are inducting our former franchise QB into the ring of honor and retiring his number. Do you know how rare it is in football for a player to achieve that status? Just my opinion but it seems pretty laughable to be jealous of the Panthers or really any team in this league. Seriously, why even bother being a Giants fan?



This is a good post - I'm unfamiliar in John Mara's role in the Eli acquisition, but he deserves a lot of credit for retaining TC in 2006.


Wellington wanted to remain loyal to Collins. John and Accorsi knew to push for Eli.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
ajr2456 : 9/24/2021 10:42 am : link
In comment 15381103 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15381077 Go Terps said:


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In comment 15381073 Chris684 said:


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In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:


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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.



That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?



The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.


What’s the plan? They already signed a RB to an enormous contract, which is a no no according to you. Is part of their plan to also sign a mediocre QB to a $30M/per contract next? Because they have to make that decision sooner rather than later. Or are they going to drag it out with Darnold and then have to reset at the QB position in another year? Whatever “plan” they have that is so clear to you seems to go against everything you preach about. But it’s not the Giants so they must be awesome


The CMC contract is kinda easy to get out of after 2023 if it doesn’t work out.
RE: RE: Sean pretty clearly meant the present situations, not history  
Kyle in NY : 9/24/2021 10:43 am : link
In comment 15381085 Sean said:
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In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:


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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.


A lot of these responses reinforce the issues with the Giants. Clinging to historic success to dismiss a current lack of organizational foresight.

The Super Bowls in 2007 & 2011 have no relevance to today. The league has changed. 15-35 under the current GM.

Here is where I’m jealous: an owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled.

Why do so many Giant fans not demand better? A lot of these same Giant fans are Yankee fans who always expect a World Series every year. Where is that standard with the Giants? This team hasn’t won the division since 2011!

And maybe the Panthers plan won’t work, but at least they have one.


Good post, Sean.

"An owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled." Spot on. Panthers will probably be a 9 or 10 win team, nothing on its own to be jealous of. But there is alignment throughout the organization and a plan in place to support a promising young head coach. We could be doing that too.

I don't think John Mara has any clue why this team has won anything for nearly a decade now. If you can't even diagnose the problem you have no chance of finding the solution. And the posts here citing super bowls from 10+ years ago (which I am forever grateful for) are probably similar to how Mara thinks. It worked in the past, so why change anything!?

I'm tired.
I may be wrong about this…  
bw in dc : 9/24/2021 10:47 am : link
but Tepper isn’t a “be patient” guy like Mara. Who keeps dragging out that damn, annoying refrain every year - be patient Giants fans, I think we’re going in the right direction…

Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.
RE: I may be wrong about this…  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:48 am : link
In comment 15381117 bw in dc said:
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but Tepper isn’t a “be patient” guy like Mara. Who keeps dragging out that damn, annoying refrain every year - be patient Giants fans, I think we’re going in the right direction…

Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.


These are just cliches. Where are you getting this from? What specifically are the Panthers doing that tells you this?
I think our last two drafts sucked  
Go Terps : 9/24/2021 10:49 am : link
.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/24/2021 10:50 am : link
Yes. They're 3-0 & I fear we'll be 0-3 come 4 PM Sunday.
RE: I think our last two drafts sucked  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 10:51 am : link
In comment 15381120 Go Terps said:
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Of course you do. You think everything sucks. Doesn't mean it's true.
RE: RE: I think our last two drafts sucked  
Go Terps : 9/24/2021 10:53 am : link
In comment 15381124 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15381120 Go Terps said:


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Of course you do. You think everything sucks. Doesn't mean it's true.


I don't think that. I do think the Giants suck, and there's not much to dispel that.
I think the major difference right now is  
Simms11 : 9/24/2021 10:56 am : link
that Matt Ruhle is a more experienced HC, #1 and secondly, their defense is playing very well. I think it’d be a different conversation right now if our Defense started the year like we all expected.
and if Lawrence doenst jump offsides  
nygiants16 : 9/24/2021 11:04 am : link
is this thread even made?

Give me a break jealous if the Panthers?

They beat the Jets barely, Jameis Winston and the Saints, and the Texans with a rookie 3rd rounder..

Lets reevaluate this in a few weeks when Carolina actually plays someone good..

Here is a question do the Panthers have their future qb?
RE: I think our last two drafts sucked  
ryanmkeane : 9/24/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15381120 Go Terps said:
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Let me guess -

Andrew Thomas sucks. Xavier McKinney sucks. Matt Peart will never play. Shane Lemieux will never come back from the injury. Darnay Holmes is a non factor. Kadarius Toney will be a bust. Ojulari will never build off his 2 sacks in his first two career games. Aaron Robinson - bust. Elerson Smith - bust. Does that sound right?

There's no chance this would go over well here  
arniefez : 9/24/2021 11:09 am : link
Even most of the people who are willing to discuss the problems with the Giants without their blue glasses on will defend the Mara's if anyone ever compares them to other NFL owners. I don't think the Panthers are about to become the model NFL franchise and I'm not sure Darnold will play to this level over 17 games but I hope he does. I'm rooting for him. This is Tepper's 4th season owning the Panthers and the 4th season season the Mara's hired Gettleman. Seems like a reasonable comparison.

The Panthers have one owner, a billionaire hedge fund guy who is having fun with his new toy.

The Giants are owned by a 50/50 partnership, one half is the family business and has 11 members by inheritance who are underfunded by todays NFL ownership standards and run the on field football team picking the GM and the HC and one of the members heads up the Player Personnel department too. The other half has 3 members who are all billionaires by inheritance and seem to be owners in name only, concerned about the business end of the NFL and not involved with the day to day of the football team.

When you think about that why would people be surprised that since Tepper bought the Panthers they have a plan with a singular vision and the Giants have the worst record in the NFL during that time having squandered the #2, #6 and #4 picks in the draft 3 years in row and still employ the GM who supposedly made those picks? It all starts at the top.

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