David Tepper bought the Panthers a few years ago, and 2019 was the year he started putting his stamp on the organization. His quote about overhauling the football operations back in 2019 was debated (linked below).
A lot of us on BBI, myself included wanted Matt Rhule. The Giants never even had the chance to talk to him. Yes, Rhule called the Giants with the opportunity to match, but it was way too late. Why didn’t ownership talk to Rhule? Because they let Tepper dictate the negotiation. Tepper flew to Waco to pitch Rhule, the Giants waited for Rhule to come to them. Tepper closed the deal.
Both the Giants & Panthers were in a similar spot after 2019. The difference is, the Giants hired Judge and pretty much stopped there. The Panthers hired Rhule and it was clear they immediately had a clear plan in place. The team FULLY committed to defense in the 2020 & 2021 drafts. A clear vision for what the team will look like.
The Panthers retained GM Marty Hurney after 2019, but only briefly. Hurney was fired last December and a new GM was brought in to work with Rhule.
Lastly, the Panthers trade for Darnold for pennies on the dollar, and Darnold is now playing better after being saddled with Gase.
I’m not bailing on Judge, Rhule has much more support in Carolina. But, this is another example of many BBI’ers calling all of this in real time. Tepper knew what was needed and executed, the Giants didn’t.
The Giants are ALWAYS reactive. It is always a game of whac-a-mole trying to address needs. There never seems to be a vision for building a team. Continuing to use the draft to reach for needs.
It is very frustrating. The Panthers very well make the playoffs this year while the Giants may struggle to finish 6-11. When will it finally hit home with Mara?
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Let me guess -
Andrew Thomas sucks. Xavier McKinney sucks. Matt Peart will never play. Shane Lemieux will never come back from the injury. Darnay Holmes is a non factor. Kadarius Toney will be a bust. Ojulari will never build off his 2 sacks in his first two career games. Aaron Robinson - bust. Elerson Smith - bust. Does that sound right?
Have the drafts been good?
How can they be considered "bad" yet?
And as far as drafts prior to Judge, they matter in the sense that those players are still here, but they don't matter in the context of future drafts. The Jones/Barkley drafts aren't run the same way they were then.
There is factual evidence of that based on the Giants trading back this draft which is something the giants rarely had done and Dave Gettleman never did.
Everyone was saying the Bengals had "awesome drafts" the past 2 years. They are still awful.
And regardless of skill set McCaffrey is going to have a better career. IMO Barkley while a great kid is just softer mentally the McCaffrey. Skill isnt enough in the NFL
Well - because time evolves and ya know, football players mature and maybe get better, those players are actually starting to play better and are playing well through weeks 1 and 2.
But hey - it's always great to say that a draft sucks to feel like you know what you're talking about.
And regardless of skill set McCaffrey is going to have a better career. IMO Barkley while a great kid is just softer mentally the McCaffrey. Skill isnt enough in the NFL
And what has McCaffrey done in the NFL that Barkley hasn't exactly? McCaffrey has been hurt just as much.
I don't remember them looking awful. They also played without their best player. Can you imagine if Saquon was injured and they Giants lost to the Panthers...people like you around here would be like "well of course Jones isn't going to play well; it is the line ; Saquon is hurt blah blah.
What do drafts prior to Joe Judge being here have to do with anything?
The last 2 drafts are looking fine right now. A little bit incomplete but they have improved.
See, you want people on the other side of the argument not to talk about the past, then when they talk about the future, you bring things back to the past.
Huh? Because the guy running the drafts is still there. And you're already giving them a good grade on this year's draft? If I point to Toney, you'll say "it's early!" Well, yeah, it's too early to judge ANY of the picks this year.
Last year's draft looks pretty good, that doesn't prove that the drafting issues are solved.
I think it's WAY too premature to talk about how good the Panthers are, given that they've played 2 teams likely vying for next year's top pick, but that doesn't mean that the Giants are on a better path.
And regardless of skill set McCaffrey is going to have a better career. IMO Barkley while a great kid is just softer mentally the McCaffrey. Skill isnt enough in the NFL
Barkley is softer than mccaffrey? based on what?
Our offense, which our GM put together, went up and down the field against the lovefest defense of WFT.
Everyone was saying the Bengals had "awesome drafts" the past 2 years. They are still awful.
Their QB got hurt last year and was out for the season.
We see rookies contributing throughout the league but our guys are in year 2 and 3 and still not making consistent impact.
“Unlike you” I actually talk to people in the league and it’s hard to find people who are high on the giants drafts.
Our offense, which our GM put together, went up and down the field against the lovefest defense of WFT.
The players on the defense aren’t at fault at all? It’s amazing you still cape for Gettleman. Going right down with the ship.
Then they beat the Saints minus 7 (that's right 7!!!) offensive coaches.
Then they beat the Texans (clearly one of the worst teams in football) WITH their backup QB.
I mean - I get it - you play the games you have on your schedule and kudos to them for taking care of business...but I don't think anyone thinks the Panthers are world beaters or a team to jealous of...
The gameplan on defense was awful. The in game decisions on offense to go conservative were awful. The loss is squarely on the coach, anyone with eyes would agree.
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
The gameplan on defense was awful. The in game decisions on offense to go conservative were awful. The loss is squarely on the coach, anyone with eyes would agree.
Where did I say Judge wasn’t at fault? Multiple things can be true at the same time.
And re: the bengals.
Burrow wasn’t good week 2 but he was good week 1. It’s his 12th career game and only 2nd coming off a major knee injury. He gets more leeway than Jones at this point in his career given his performance last year as a rookie with no offseason.
Josh Allen finally put it all together in year 3. He was better in year 2 but still wildly inconsistent. Then - he took off.
Gives Jones the year and we'll see how he's progressing. We'll know about weeks 8-10 if he's our franchise quarterback.
Oh yeah - what are the excuses?
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
Jones had one good game this year and you think you’re right? Comical. Weren’t you saying this team was going to be good last year?
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same with Terps, saying I'm 'caping for Gettleman" and going down with the ship.
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
Jones had one good game this year and you think you’re right? Comical. Weren’t you saying this team was going to be good last year?
Nope - I said they'd win 6 games. Which they did.
So when are we supposed to start saying that Jones is playing well then? After 7 good games in a row?
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Oh yeah - what are the excuses?
Read all the BS you've spewed in this thread.
And you guys want Mr. Magoo to make those picks next year for us? Are you guys fucking insane? Enjoy your worst record in the league over the past 3 years. Idiots.
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same with Terps, saying I'm 'caping for Gettleman" and going down with the ship.
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
Jones had one good game this year and you think you’re right? Comical. Weren’t you saying this team was going to be good last year?
Nope - I said they'd win 6 games. Which they did.
So when are we supposed to start saying that Jones is playing well then? After 7 good games in a row?
When he does it more often than he plays poorly? Not really a difficult concept.
You guys were the ones that said Andrew Thomas sucks, and that he'd be a bust. You guys were the ones that said Daniel Jones can't play quarterback.
But perhaps Brady vs Garrett is a reason to wish Mara was more like Tepper.
Getting a guy like Garrett, or Shurmur, or McCarthy, or Shula, etc is just so on brand with Mara. Fortunately in about a decade there won't be many fossils left in the field for him to add to the collection.
You guys were the ones that said Andrew Thomas sucks, and that he'd be a bust. You guys were the ones that said Daniel Jones can't play quarterback.
I like Thomas. I've defended Jones. But he's played well against the Redskins his entire career. Let me see him play that well for an entire season against a variety of opponents.
Oh. And we still lost that game. Something this franchise is very familiar with over the past decade. Losing.
Some of you guys never learn, and deserve this.
What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?
Sham had the early lead on Secretariet, too.... - ( New Window )
Who said let’s not see how it goes? As of now Jones has been a QB not worthy of the 6th pick. That’s not a debate. If he plays like he did against Washington the rest of the year that changes things but at this moment he has not been a good pick.
You want me to yes you to death? jones playing better ? You made your mind up about that already huh? i don't know you are still shilling for Dave gettl. This guy clearly sucks. Darnold show up on a new team and goes 3-0 with 100 QB rating. Can you imagine if Jones and Giants did that. You would be rubbing it in already about "told you so". Somehow when the Panthers do it it's whatevs "still early".
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What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?
And the Giants have a very good chance of winning more games than the Panthers. Why not wait a few games? Why such a hurry to bury the Giants? Sham had the early lead on Secretariet, too.... - ( New Window )
Take a look at the schedule post Falcons. This teams not winning more than 5 or 6 games.
What excuses are you talking about?
10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
It’s not 10 years of wait and see.
This thread is about being jealous of the Carolina Panthers of all franchises. I’ve asked a bunch of times specifically for evidence of this grand plan they have for the future and all I’ve gotten is a bunch of cliches. Meanwhile I’ve pointed out that the Giants have more and better picks than Carolina next year. Youve told me that doesn’t matter because of past drafts that are now largely irrelevant.
I’ll ask again. What makes the Panthers so great? What are they doing specifically that all of you have keyed on that’s going to be so critical to their future success?
Our offense, which our GM put together, went up and down the field against the lovefest defense of WFT.
And the WFT offense went up and down the field against the NYG defense which was supposed to be the strength of this club. Perhaps neither D played great that game. Hence why some of us aren't in a hurry to proclaim the corner has been turned
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It’s not 10 years of wait and see.
This thread is about being jealous of the Carolina Panthers of all franchises. I’ve asked a bunch of times specifically for evidence of this grand plan they have for the future and all I’ve gotten is a bunch of cliches. Meanwhile I’ve pointed out that the Giants have more and better picks than Carolina next year. Youve told me that doesn’t matter because of past drafts that are now largely irrelevant.
I’ll ask again. What makes the Panthers so great? What are they doing specifically that all of you have keyed on that’s going to be so critical to their future success?
Look at their defense and how they invested in it. They got Darnold for pennies in the dollar who looks improved from not having Gase. Good young weapons on offense. They also have nearly $60 million in cap space next year.
More importantly, they beat the teams they should beat. Something the Giants haven’t done the past several years.
If they have reversed their fortunes in a year by getting the right coach, beefing up the D, and getting a solid if not potential franchise QB for pennies on the dollar...that would be one of the biggest stories of the year if it holds.
Look at their defense and how they invested in it. They got Darnold for pennies in the dollar who looks improved from not having Gase. Good young weapons on offense. They also have nearly $60 million in cap space next year.
More importantly, they beat the teams they should beat. Something the Giants haven’t done the past several years.
last year the Panthers D was bottom half of the league so maybe we should hold off on crowning their achievement? their defense looks like world beaters because 2 of their 3 games were against rookie QBs making their literal first NFL starts.
Darnold does look improved but don't you think it's a bit of a concern that he has 4 fumbles in 3 games?
as someone who appreciates rebuilt defenses "beating the teams you're supposed to beat" and subtle improvements from young QBs, I imagine you were pretty optimistic from last year's 5-4 finish?
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10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.