Here we are going into week #3, #1 pick, and he's only made a cameo appearance; not even special teams (CJ Board, who ?), is doing kick-returns.
And now, it's reported that he's coming back from injury; what, when ?
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/whats-making-giants-rookie-kadarius-194403211.html
Something ain't right with this whole situation.
No.
If you know anything at all about Toney coming out of school, it was that he needed a ton of pro coaching on running routes. It was mentioned over and over again in scouting reports.
Toney missed all of the OTA, all of the training camp practices, and all three preseason games. He's starting from scratch.
You guys don't seem to want to accept that for some reason.
All rookies are NOT the same. And most rookies who missed all of the time Toney has missed would be in the same boat.
Did you read Thomas McGaughey's comments on Thursday?
Something tells me you didn't.
My guess is 90 percent of the readers of the site no longer read the transcripts/watch the video of the coordinator interviews.
There’s a big difference between a blue chip WR prospect and a player like Toney who needs a lot more time.
Again - did people not know this or expect this? Every draft pick isn’t a game changer immediately, especially at WR.
Something tells me you didn't.
My guess is 90 percent of the readers of the site no longer read the transcripts/watch the video of the coordinator interviews.
The only mention of Toney I see in that transcript is also in the linked story. Did I miss something else? This doesn’t seem that informative.
KT hasn't EARNED the right to play yet. Nothing in the NFL is "given" to players, they have to take it away from someone else. It really looks like KT needs to learn that lesson.
Go earn it!!!!
That’s a bit of a straw man no? Who’s on record expecting him to be a game changer?
In terms of expectations, did you expect he not contribute to specials and barely play on offense?
Special teams is more than just catching the ball and running up the field. If you've watched any Joe Judge breakdowns on Giants.com, you know this.
I've said it for years, there are only so many practices now under the CBA, and practice times are smaller (some only last an hour).
All 4 more complete WR’s than Toney the gadget WR.
There’s a big difference between a blue chip WR prospect and a player like Toney who needs a lot more time.
Again - did people not know this or expect this? Every draft pick isn’t a game changer immediately, especially at WR.
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Why isn’t he returning kicks and punts? Not as complex as learning pro routes
Did you read Thomas McGaughey's comments on Thursday?
Something tells me you didn't.
My guess is 90 percent of the readers of the site no longer read the transcripts/watch the video of the coordinator interviews.
Special teams is more than just catching the ball and running up the field. If you've watched any Joe Judge breakdowns on Giants.com, you know this.
Something is weird.
I find it interesting the WR coach is quoted as saying Toney has a strong grasp of the offense. I get he’s physically behind, but lots of young WRs at the bottom of the depth chart get their start in the return game.
And you see guys like Rondale Moore, picked after Toney not only get in the field on offense, but return punts too.
The only way you learn how to run routes is to do it on the practice field.
He can learn the plays/concepts in the classroom, but you only really learn how to perfect your trade by doing it.
If a WR is off by sometimes a few inches, an interception occurs. I bet you half the picks you see in a game where it looks like the QB was nowhere near his target was the fault of the target not running a precise route.
When the out pattern says break off your route at 8 yards, it doesn't mean 7.5 or 8.5 yards. It means 8 yards.
Anyone who has followed Giants football for years knows there are WRs who have had issues learning route running, and these were guys who didn't miss the entire summer.
Toney has to adjust his route base on both pre- and post-snap reads.
2) Because of the tiny amount of practice time he's had, he may not be ready to play "right" – even on returns.
3) Our starting slot receiver, Shep, is one concussion away from missing a lot of games. I hope for the best, but Toney's role could change quickly.
Is that not the status of pretty much every WR when they’re drafted?
The kid is 3rd game in with a lot of missed time. We’d all like him to come in and just OBJ it, but guys develop at different rates. He’s got to learn to run routes and read Ds so he is where he is supposed to be when he’s supposed to be there.
Give it some time people.
Eli…. Was awful all training camp, preseason and regular season of his rookie year
OBJ hadn’t even seen the field at this point
Thomas was a “bust” at this point
Should I keep going?
Most of all rookies take a year or to adjust to the NFL…chill the fuck out
The only way you learn how to run routes is to do it on the practice field.
I think everyone who followed Toney in college and the draft process understands he has a learning curve at the position.
The Giants running a program where a rookie cannot contribute to the punt return game as they develop their receiving skills seems to be an outlier.
Especially when this receiver appears to be understandably at the bottom of the depth chart and the dude returning punts right now is average 3.3 yards.
Sure. It may be a lost season, or first half yr
Could’ve we used a more polished wr as of now? Sure
But that’s m9nday morning qb stuff
So if he is a developmental prospect picked in round 1 we are basically grooming him for the next team that signs him.
I hope I’m wrong, but I haven’t liked this pick from the time it was made.
If you can’t see why people have serious reservations about Toney I don’t know what to tell you. If you actually believe all of his many issues during his 5 month tenure with the team are related to physical injuries I also don’t know what to tell you
If those guys were producing, everyone would be ok that Toney is a bit of a project with high upside.
But those two guys have been huge disappointments through 2 weeks, so now everyone gets frustrated about Toney.
All I'm saying is that the circumstances that have surrounded him are cumulatively just a wee bit peculiar - tweeks his foot
wearing wrong cleats, Covid positive, hints unhappiness with role, now he has an "ankle". All the time Judge barely speaks about him - the team's #1 draft pick. ....
While the team is 0-2 and desperately needs all the difference makers it can put on the field.
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To the whole situation is a joke.. Especially about rookie WR’s take time to develop in the nfl?? Umm.. not true. We see a whole lot of rookie WR’s contributing right now and in the past?! That answer was so a typical Giants response! Honestly if I was the owner, I would have fired him in the spot after that response..
No.
If you know anything at all about Toney coming out of school, it was that he needed a ton of pro coaching on running routes. It was mentioned over and over again in scouting reports.
Right. But the issue is that rookies who need "a ton of pro coaching on running routes" usually are 3rd round picks at best.
So fans are a little pissed that #20 overall has done literally less than nothing so far.
There's no path to playing time when you have missed all the practices that Toney has. Has nothing to do with him being a "developmental guy" or not. He needs to contribute on the practice field before he has any real opportunity to contribute during games that matter.
Quote:
Why isn’t he returning kicks and punts? Not as complex as learning pro routes
Did you read Thomas McGaughey's comments on Thursday?
Something tells me you didn't.
My guess is 90 percent of the readers of the site no longer read the transcripts/watch the video of the coordinator interviews.
The only way you learn how to run routes is to do it on the practice field.
He can learn the plays/concepts in the classroom, but you only really learn how to perfect your trade by doing it.
If a WR is off by sometimes a few inches, an interception occurs. I bet you half the picks you see in a game where it looks like the QB was nowhere near his target was the fault of the target not running a precise route.
When the out pattern says break off your route at 8 yards, it doesn't mean 7.5 or 8.5 yards. It means 8 yards.
Anyone who has followed Giants football for years knows there are WRs who have had issues learning route running, and these were guys who didn't miss the entire summer.
This is nonsense. Rondale Moore for example has made most of his money this year on broken plays not because he ran his route +/- .5 yds. Toney has a similar skill set and yet we can’t figure out how to get him the ball. Something stinks here.
Maybe it’s the playcalling
Or maybe it’s DJ.
Not sure what it is, but it’s something.
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This isn't that hard.
The only way you learn how to run routes is to do it on the practice field.
He can learn the plays/concepts in the classroom, but you only really learn how to perfect your trade by doing it.
If a WR is off by sometimes a few inches, an interception occurs. I bet you half the picks you see in a game where it looks like the QB was nowhere near his target was the fault of the target not running a precise route.
When the out pattern says break off your route at 8 yards, it doesn't mean 7.5 or 8.5 yards. It means 8 yards.
Anyone who has followed Giants football for years knows there are WRs who have had issues learning route running, and these were guys who didn't miss the entire summer.
This is nonsense. Rondale Moore for example has made most of his money this year on broken plays not because he ran his route +/- .5 yds. Toney has a similar skill set and yet we can’t figure out how to get him the ball. Something stinks here.
I don’t get Eric’s point here, all signs point to him knowing the playbook, running routes at wrong depths is either a knowledge or agility issue, neither describe Toney. There’s a lot more intricacies to route running, like giving up your intentions or what the best do, confusing defenders inside out. He’s playing off ball so hand fighting isn’t really relative for him. I just don’t think they trust a Rookie right now when we have 3 vets ahead of him.
He played 20 snaps last week, which is fine. The real
Issue is HOW he’s being used. He ran a bunch of hitches and go/clear outs on the field. Of course he’s pissed with how he’s being used. We should be using him a ton in motion, faking jet sweeps, make them honor it until they don’t, and then give him the ball. Garrett doesn’t believe in the eye candy stuff though, so let’s see if he can figure out how to use him.
I’m really, really hoping that they don’t trust the OL right now and that’s why the screen game is missing because with Toney and Saquon there’s no other excuse for it not being in playbook.
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In comment 15381795 Eric from BBI said:
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This isn't that hard.
The only way you learn how to run routes is to do it on the practice field.
He can learn the plays/concepts in the classroom, but you only really learn how to perfect your trade by doing it.
If a WR is off by sometimes a few inches, an interception occurs. I bet you half the picks you see in a game where it looks like the QB was nowhere near his target was the fault of the target not running a precise route.
When the out pattern says break off your route at 8 yards, it doesn't mean 7.5 or 8.5 yards. It means 8 yards.
Anyone who has followed Giants football for years knows there are WRs who have had issues learning route running, and these were guys who didn't miss the entire summer.
This is nonsense. Rondale Moore for example has made most of his money this year on broken plays not because he ran his route +/- .5 yds. Toney has a similar skill set and yet we can’t figure out how to get him the ball. Something stinks here.
I don’t get Eric’s point here, all signs point to him knowing the playbook, running routes at wrong depths is either a knowledge or agility issue, neither describe Toney. There’s a lot more intricacies to route running, like giving up your intentions or what the best do, confusing defenders inside out. He’s playing off ball so hand fighting isn’t really relative for him. I just don’t think they trust a Rookie right now when we have 3 vets ahead of him.
He played 20 snaps last week, which is fine. The real
Issue is HOW he’s being used. He ran a bunch of hitches and go/clear outs on the field. Of course he’s pissed with how he’s being used. We should be using him a ton in motion, faking jet sweeps, make them honor it until they don’t, and then give him the ball. Garrett doesn’t believe in the eye candy stuff though, so let’s see if he can figure out how to use him.
I’m really, really hoping that they don’t trust the OL right now and that’s why the screen game is missing because with Toney and Saquon there’s no other excuse for it not being in playbook.
Exactly! And Moore has Hopkins, Kirk, and Green in front of him and they’re ALL producing and providing value.
Garrett could get him involved in the offense as well.
I also don't know why he is not returning kicks,
can leave Peppers returning punts.
Everything I’ve read seems like the coaches are mad at him for not practicing or for not taking practice seriously. They haven’t fully said that but reading between the lines they do not seem thrilled
My guess is 90 percent of the readers of the site no longer read the transcripts/watch the video of the coordinator interviews.
I used to read all the interviews - coaches and players - but they became a stream of stupid questions and canned answers that left you knowing no more than you did prior to reading them. Don't blame the fans. Blame the media for not asking pertinent questions and the coaches for saying a bunch of nothing.
Everything I’ve read seems like the coaches are mad at him for not practicing or for not taking practice seriously. They haven’t fully said that but reading between the lines they do not seem thrilled
Toney has been dealing with his “situations” since he was drafted. Once all his situations have run their course and football becomes the absolute priority then hopefully he begins to help the team. We’ll see if that happens here in 2021.
Then he held out in the preseason proper because his contract wasn't signed. A detail that didn't seem to matter to anyone else, and, in fact, was covered by insurance.
Covid was likely avoidable. A cleat made no sense then or now.
Hamstrings, ankles, covid, insurance, Jone's safari neglected (2 x's), improper cleats that worked for the other 79, etc. Etc..
Let's find a way to blame Garrett...whoops, they beat me to it. Maybe it's the media's fault.