for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

David Gettleman draft day quote:

JohnB : 9/29/2021 6:11 pm
“It’s really apparent that we have a little more confidence in our offensive linemen than you guys do. So I’m just going to say we’re happy with the group that we have.

I keep thinking back to this quote while watching the Giants bottom feed for OLineman right now. I held back during and after the draft about my thoughts but I was stunned that they didn't add to the depth. I thought it was okay that they didn't go OLine in the 1st or 2nd but they added NOTHING in a draft rich with OLine help.

Fast forward to today: Here we are on the 3rd game and he's trading for OLineman, taking guys off the street and trying everything to find warm bodies to protect Jones and Company. Unbelievable.

The question that I am asking myself is how do I spend my Sundays cheering for such cluelessness? Why not go mow the lawn or go for a hike? Why spend 3 hours to watch the Giants lose yet again? And I have been a fan for over 40years.... But this is as bad as I have ever seen it.
My current favorite  
cosmicj : 9/29/2021 6:19 pm : link
Evan Engram and Dalvin Tomlinson have about the same cap hit this season.

(Yes, I know DT’s future cap impact is there, but still...)
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/29/2021 6:21 pm : link
The good news is that he'll be out of a job soon enough.
you do  
Amtoft : 9/29/2021 6:26 pm : link
realize we are adding people now because we have lost 3 starting players? Starter goes down you add a player for depth, another one goes down, you add a player for depth, another one goes down you add another for depth. Did you expect them to not add anyone as they lost 3 players?
Do you think  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/29/2021 6:26 pm : link
Judge and staff were comfortable? I actually think they were but they did want to add someone in round 2/3 and said a couple players they liked were picked. My guess is the center from Alabama and the big guard out of ND were players the liked.

The really upsetting thing is Peart. I think they all thought he would be on the field.
I remember him saying that now  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 6:27 pm : link
and like you I was amazed they didn’t draft another lineman for depth. I was thinking third or fourth round. But what did they do, draft another CB. Just like they let Zeitler and Tomlinson go so they could sign Adoree Jackson and keep Engram for $5M wasted dollars.

Gettleman is a colossal asshole  
rsjem1979 : 9/29/2021 6:27 pm : link
Half of the starting OL would be depth linemen (at best) on good teams, and he was sure he had it all set.

It'll be a great day when this smug fool is gone.
RE: you do  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 6:28 pm : link
In comment 15391368 Amtoft said:
Quote:
realize we are adding people now because we have lost 3 starting players? Starter goes down you add a player for depth, another one goes down, you add a player for depth, another one goes down you add another for depth. Did you expect them to not add anyone as they lost 3 players?


They had no depth to begin with. Every guy they brought in to be a backup retired. I mean I like Nick Gates and Lemieux, but it’s not like this line was good even when they were healthy. I mean we have Solder starting at RT, which means Peart must really suck.
Oh yea  
Producer : 9/29/2021 6:30 pm : link
That's one of his best hits. Goes on the highlight reel.
RE: My current favorite  
TommyWiseau : 9/29/2021 6:31 pm : link
In comment 15391359 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Evan Engram and Dalvin Tomlinson have about the same cap hit this season.

(Yes, I know DT’s future cap impact is there, but still...)


Betweenm Engram and Rudolph's salary we could have resigned Tomlinson and brought in a lower cost TE replacement like Jared Cook
Yesterday...  
bw in dc : 9/29/2021 6:33 pm : link
I almost started a thread for people to post their favorite DG quote.

This one would have been definitely been in the mix.

I get it but be reasonable  
dancing blue bear : 9/29/2021 6:34 pm : link
We lost 2 starting IOL. AND OUR FIRST 3 backups. There is no plausible way to plan on or carry a 6th string guard. We had to scour the wire for bodies. Any team would with that concentration of injuries.

Thomas looks good. Hernandez is what he is. An average starting guard. I would love to know what happened to peart and why he is now irrelevant.

That being said we were stuck with solder and as a back up / swing tackle after the salary cut I was ok with it.

I personally would have liked to keep zeitler but I guess the money part didn’t work. And yes. I think he was over paid for a slightly above average guard

All that being said i don’t think the line has been terrible thus far. Jones has some time to throw. As for the running game I am not an expert. I’m gonna watch some all 22 breakdowns this week.

There are rumblings that there have been holes but they are not getting hit.

I will reserve judgement on that until I have some information
DG is not a football guy...  
.McL. : 9/29/2021 6:34 pm : link
He just plays one for the cameras.
And plays it  
.McL. : 9/29/2021 6:35 pm : link
badly
RE: I remember him saying that now  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/29/2021 6:36 pm : link
In comment 15391371 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
and like you I was amazed they didn’t draft another lineman for depth. I was thinking third or fourth round. But what did they do, draft another CB. Just like they let Zeitler and Tomlinson go so they could sign Adoree Jackson and keep Engram for $5M wasted dollars.


I mentioned that acknowledged a couple lineman were picked that they liked. I asked this same question on another thread but where is the emphasis on the secondary is coming from?
Do you think  
joeinpa : 9/29/2021 6:37 pm : link
He would have said that if he knew he was going to lose his starting center and left guard

Can’t really defend the job Gettleman has done, but be fair.
Coaches let the GM know  
Giants73 : 9/29/2021 6:39 pm : link
What they need, and obviously Judge said he was good at line, he needed x,y, and z. Gettleman still got him two able body linemen, but Judges antics had two guys retire. Where did anyone see Judge say he wanted a o linemen in the middle rounds. Guy is a buffoon, he probably was asking for more special team players. Here’s another idea don’t cut linemen to keep 7 special teamers .
it wasn't that hard to draft Rashawn Slater  
Producer : 9/29/2021 6:42 pm : link
all they had to do was write his name on a little piece of paper.

RE: Do you think  
g56blue10 : 9/29/2021 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15391387 joeinpa said:
Quote:
He would have said that if he knew he was going to lose his starting center and left guard

Can’t really defend the job Gettleman has done, but be fair.


And he didn’t just lose 2 starters. He lost his top 2 reserves. One to retirement and one to injury.. than Then next guy he added retired..
Someone in that room really said Nate Solder  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/29/2021 6:47 pm : link
Can help us in 2021.
Heard gentleman’s drafts  
Giants73 : 9/29/2021 6:47 pm : link
We’re better because Judge is forcing his hand. Now back pedal, and Judge would have wanted the players that were picked after the giants who are doing well. Judges guy spencer is coaching, and did not endorse Parsons or if he did Judge again doesn’t have stones to say what he wanted. Judge was there for Slaters workout, guess he didn’t have the stones to say he wanted him.
Slater  
g56blue10 : 9/29/2021 6:47 pm : link
Appears like he would have been. Great pick
You guys kill me  
FatHeadTommy : 9/29/2021 6:47 pm : link
You are so locked on DG that you can’t think straight. Didn’t 2 experienced back ups retire unexpectedly during training camp.? Didn’t a promising starter break his freaking leg in the second game? Didn’t another tough OL SOB tear his patella tendon and have surgery before the third game?

How many tearms would fair well under those circumstances?

Given all that, did we lose 3 games because our O line played so poorly that we couldn’t have won any one of those games? NO

This coach and staff was overly cautious with injured players during training camp and squandered three pre-season games when our starting offense should have been out there working off the rust and learning to play as a unit. Instead, we started unprepared and lost 2 games in 5 days and started another season feeling like losers. Losing is contagious just like winning.
Even if Gates and Lemieux were still healthy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/29/2021 6:52 pm : link
The plan was to play 2021 with the expectation that everyone on the line was simply going to be better than last year.

Even if their retired backups didn't retire, the best case scenario is a guy that wasn't good enough to start for another NFL team would be called on to start at RT.
Honestly, it is kind of impressive even  
NoGainDayne : 9/29/2021 6:54 pm : link
how quickly his quotes can age so poorly. I've never seen anything like it for a leader of such a large organization. You'd think someone would care about looking so foolish but he just keeps on trucking! This one is really good too:

01/02/19

"We didn't sign him to trade him, if that's what you're asking," Gettleman said, throwing cold water on resurfaced rumors.

When asked if that means Beckham will be with Big Blue next season, the GM added: "You heard what I said."

Traded 2 months later lol

And that's the thing with him. I'm no stranger to strategy or gamesmenship. But that also involves thinking through what you say, it's not very strategic to just blurt out whatever you feel like saying sometimes with a clear goal of antagonizing people
NGD.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/29/2021 6:57 pm : link
I think DG sometimes says stuff to be clever or sound witty & it has backfired on him a ton. It's almost like half of what he does is an act.
RE: Gettleman is a colossal asshole  
trueblueinpw : 9/29/2021 6:57 pm : link
In comment 15391373 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
Half of the starting OL would be depth linemen (at best) on good teams, and he was sure he had it all set.

It'll be a great day when this smug fool is gone.


Preach!
Here comes the  
Giants73 : 9/29/2021 6:58 pm : link
Crying Over Odell getting traded. It’s impossible to like any player picked by Gettleman because bad man traded my favorite player away.
RE: you do  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2021 7:09 pm : link
In comment 15391368 Amtoft said:
Quote:
realize we are adding people now because we have lost 3 starting players? Starter goes down you add a player for depth, another one goes down, you add a player for depth, another one goes down you add another for depth. Did you expect them to not add anyone as they lost 3 players?

You do realize that DG has an explanation for everything, right?

But I'll add this - for anyone who thinks the Giants ever draft BPA, that quote seals the fact that they don't (at least not under DG). Because the correct BPA answer when you don't draft any OL isn't that you're confident in your current group; it's that there just wasn't an OL at the top of our board at any point that we were on the clock.

To even acknowledge the guys on the roster tells you that DG drafts for need, and does so reactively.
I have no problem that he said that.  
Vin_Cuccs : 9/29/2021 7:11 pm : link
I fully expect him to believe in his own guys. My issue is from the talent evaluation side. The problem is he missed on these guys. And not just along line. Sure, that’s the obvious one…butI don’t see a clear upgrade in talent on this roster from the day he took over.

4 drafts later, and countless free agent contracts.
RE: you do  
Section331 : 9/29/2021 7:12 pm : link
In comment 15391368 Amtoft said:
Quote:
realize we are adding people now because we have lost 3 starting players? Starter goes down you add a player for depth, another one goes down, you add a player for depth, another one goes down you add another for depth. Did you expect them to not add anyone as they lost 3 players?


Sure, but the depth consisted of a couple of guys picked off the trash heap on cut day. That is emblematic of the personnel issues.
Gettleman's miss  
Coopcomic : 9/29/2021 7:15 pm : link
...seems to be on Peart. If Peart isn't capable at RT, that's a big miss, but that has to be in conjunction with Judge's recommendations. But the shuffling (and retirements) really isn't his fault. What's going on with injuries is insane.
RE: Gettleman's miss  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/29/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15391440 Coopcomic said:
Quote:
...seems to be on Peart. If Peart isn't capable at RT, that's a big miss, but that has to be in conjunction with Judge's recommendations. But the shuffling (and retirements) really isn't his fault. What's going on with injuries is insane.


It shouldn't be a big miss. A small-school 3rd round pick who wasn't great at all last year was relied upon to play like a starter for a team with a mission statement of fielding a better offense.

There was no reason to not bring in anyone else of consequence to actually compete for the position.

Every year  
D HOS : 9/29/2021 7:21 pm : link
You should spend at least one draft choice on an oline.

Whether one or two (or three) and the round, would have to do with the specific picks you have, how the draft lays out and how urgent a need. But... if you are perpetually drafting at least one oline, then you probably would only rarely have a truly urgent need.
RE: RE: Gettleman's miss  
Coopcomic : 9/29/2021 7:22 pm : link
In comment 15391446 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15391440 Coopcomic said:


Quote:


...seems to be on Peart. If Peart isn't capable at RT, that's a big miss, but that has to be in conjunction with Judge's recommendations. But the shuffling (and retirements) really isn't his fault. What's going on with injuries is insane.



It shouldn't be a big miss. A small-school 3rd round pick who wasn't great at all last year was relied upon to play like a starter for a team with a mission statement of fielding a better offense.

There was no reason to not bring in anyone else of consequence to actually compete for the position.


I don't disagree with you -- but that couldn't be all Gettleman. There would have to be a full assessment of where they thought Peart would be. Although Solder insurance has been ok (not great) but ok.
Don’t sleep on ‘Pio  
jeff57 : 9/29/2021 7:26 pm : link
.
He’s an arrogant ass  
jeff57 : 9/29/2021 7:28 pm : link
At least Reese usually kept his mouth shut. Although they both were terrible GM’s.
Just for full context you do realize  
Chris684 : 9/29/2021 7:28 pm : link
they had 2 unexpected retirements among the depth/backup guys and so far 2 season ending injuries to starters and another recent injury to a backup in Bredeson.

Find me a team that wouldn’t be scrambling for “warm bodies” in this scenario.
Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
Dave in PA : 9/29/2021 7:33 pm : link
going to make any difference at this point? Absolutely not
RE: NGD.  
bw in dc : 9/29/2021 7:34 pm : link
In comment 15391418 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I think DG sometimes says stuff to be clever or sound witty & it has backfired on him a ton. It's almost like half of what he does is an act.


You can’t act that. It’s genuine through and through.

He’s just a guy with no filter, but fairly insecure. You can tell this by the way he tried to remind us of his resume - championships, players, coaches, etc he’s been a part of - and the justifications he made on the Barkley and Jones picks.

On Jones, Gettleman was selling this line that he had inside info that two teams definitely wanted Jones before our 17th pick. So he basically had to take Jones at #6 if he wanted him. But why not simply say Jones was his guy and leave it at that? Why the subterfuge?
 
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2021 7:35 pm : link
Well, it appears there were fairly high on Gates and Lemieux, both out for the year.

But yes - the fact that we didn’t at least draft or sign a good guard or tackle is troubling. The fact that Peart is not starting is troubling.
RE: Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/29/2021 7:35 pm : link
In comment 15391472 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
going to make any difference at this point? Absolutely not


They could have addressed it earlier than round 3 or 4.

Or they could have addressed it in free agency. There was nothing preventing that. They spent a ton of money this offseason.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/29/2021 7:39 pm : link
I think the OL has been below average but it's actually better than I expected for the most part. I don't think this is the abomination it was in games like AZ/Baltimore last year. I think the run blocking has been the bigger issue than the pass blocking (although I think some of the data sites think I'm wrong on this).
Fatso needs to go NOW  
big canoe jeff : 9/29/2021 7:40 pm : link
My dog couple have picked AT So giants up against the cap what does Judge do? signs his special teams ace Ebner fiir a cap hitt of $1mm when was the last time blocked punt recovered an on side kick blocked field goal
Giants going to get destroyed by Saints perfect storm
RE: Fatso needs to go NOW  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2021 7:42 pm : link
In comment 15391480 big canoe jeff said:
Quote:
My dog couple have picked AT So giants up against the cap what does Judge do? signs his special teams ace Ebner fiir a cap hitt of $1mm when was the last time blocked punt recovered an on side kick blocked field goal
Giants going to get destroyed by Saints perfect storm

Jeff, I think you should choose to either hit the sauce or post on BBI, but don't do both in the same night.
Honestly, don’t get the Lemieux love  
Rick in Dallas : 9/29/2021 7:43 pm : link
Good run blocker awful pass blocker. It certainly appears that Peart maybe a big swing and miss .
Peart  
jeff57 : 9/29/2021 7:46 pm : link
Just has that Guy Whimper feel about him.
RE: RE: Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2021 7:46 pm : link
In comment 15391477 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15391472 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


going to make any difference at this point? Absolutely not



They could have addressed it earlier than round 3 or 4.

Or they could have addressed it in free agency. There was nothing preventing that. They spent a ton of money this offseason.

This.

And would this year's 3rd or 4th round OL be farther along going into next season than next year's 3rd or 4th round rookie OL? Could this year's 3rd or 4th round OL provide enough depth and potential that next year's draft won't have to be guided by need yet again? Plenty of really good offensive lineman are drafted in the middle (and late) rounds. But you have to actually draft them.

It is always a reaction with DG. Never a plan.
RE: ...  
EricJ : 9/29/2021 7:48 pm : link
In comment 15391362 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The good news is that he'll be out of a job soon enough.


DG is not getting fired after this season.
RE: Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
JohnB : 9/29/2021 7:50 pm : link
In comment 15391472 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
going to make any difference at this point? Absolutely not


Rashawn Slater would have made a difference

There were reports that they had Rashawn Slater all written up and if he was there, they were going to take him. They passed even though almost everyone thought that the OLine was their weak spot.

Gettleman disagreed and stayed pat for the whole draft.

RE: RE: ...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/29/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15391489 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15391362 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The good news is that he'll be out of a job soon enough.



DG is not getting fired after this season.


You wanna put $ on that?
RE: RE: ...  
jeff57 : 9/29/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15391489 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15391362 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The good news is that he'll be out of a job soon enough.



DG is not getting fired after this season.


He’s getting fired before the end of the season?
RE: RE: Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
Angel Eyes : 9/29/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15391491 JohnB said:
Quote:
In comment 15391472 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


going to make any difference at this point? Absolutely not



Rashawn Slater would have made a difference

There were reports that they had Rashawn Slater all written up and if he was there, they were going to take him. They passed even though almost everyone thought that the OLine was their weak spot.

Gettleman disagreed and stayed pat for the whole draft.

In that case what did Gettleman dislike about Slater?
RE: RE: RE: Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
jeff57 : 9/29/2021 7:54 pm : link
In comment 15391494 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15391491 JohnB said:


Quote:


In comment 15391472 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


going to make any difference at this point? Absolutely not



Rashawn Slater would have made a difference

There were reports that they had Rashawn Slater all written up and if he was there, they were going to take him. They passed even though almost everyone thought that the OLine was their weak spot.

Gettleman disagreed and stayed pat for the whole draft.



In that case what did Gettleman dislike about Slater?


He liked the Bears deal better.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2021 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15391492 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15391489 EricJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15391362 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The good news is that he'll be out of a job soon enough.



DG is not getting fired after this season.



You wanna put $ on that?

Be careful. This feels like one of those semantic loophole things.

I agree that DG won't get fired after the season or during the season. He'll "retire."
RE: …  
bw in dc : 9/29/2021 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15391476 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Well, it appears there were fairly high on Gates and Lemieux, both out for the year.

But yes - the fact that we didn’t at least draft or sign a good guard or tackle is troubling. The fact that Peart is not starting is troubling.


They were high on Hernandez, too.

But so far, he's been horrible in the Denver and ATL games. And barely competent in the WFT game.

I said it quite a bit during free agency. The move this team needed to make was signing Linsley (C) and Thuney (G) instead of LW. That would have shored-up the interior considerably. Now we are left signing former first round busts who essentially hate the game of football.
RE: RE: Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
bw in dc : 9/29/2021 7:58 pm : link
In comment 15391491 JohnB said:
Quote:

There were reports that they had Rashawn Slater all written up and if he was there, they were going to take him. They passed even though almost everyone thought that the OLine was their weak spot.



I was a big advocate for Slater. He's been rock solid as rookie LT for Herbert and LAC. Just kills me.

But I have not heard that Slater was a top target. I thought Rico said otherwise...other OLs were more intriguing.
RE: Even if Gates and Lemieux were still healthy  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15391413 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
The plan was to play 2021 with the expectation that everyone on the line was simply going to be better than last year.

Even if their retired backups didn't retire, the best case scenario is a guy that wasn't good enough to start for another NFL team would be called on to start at RT.


This 100%. Even if there were no injuries this line would have been average at best. Nate Solder is the starting right tackle. That has nothing to do with injuries. It’s because Peart is clearly not good/ready and they decided to keep trading down and take Toney instead of an offensive lineman.
Gettleman has no plan  
big canoe jeff : 9/29/2021 8:02 pm : link
Everybody knows it. brain dead Mara makes cosmetic changes only along with his temper tantrums Rinse repeat. What Patriot assts. have succeeded? looks like judge way over his head like Patricia
Gettleman drafting and trades have been pathetic any other team/sport would have been long gone
Not one mention before September  
Giants73 : 9/29/2021 8:08 pm : link
Of any Giants staff wanting Slater and being over ruled. Guy has a few good games and now anonymous Giants staff indicate they wanted him.
RE: RE: RE: Was a 3rd or 4th round OL  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2021 8:11 pm : link
In comment 15391504 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15391491 JohnB said:


Quote:



There were reports that they had Rashawn Slater all written up and if he was there, they were going to take him. They passed even though almost everyone thought that the OLine was their weak spot.





I was a big advocate for Slater. He's been rock solid as rookie LT for Herbert and LAC. Just kills me.

But I have not heard that Slater was a top target. I thought Rico said otherwise...other OLs were more intriguing.

Yeah, pretty sure we heard from multiple sources that AVT was their target if they were going OL.

But they weren't going OL. They were confident in their guys. Just ask Dave.
RE: RE: you do  
Amtoft : 9/29/2021 8:13 pm : link
In comment 15391375 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 15391368 Amtoft said:


Quote:


realize we are adding people now because we have lost 3 starting players? Starter goes down you add a player for depth, another one goes down, you add a player for depth, another one goes down you add another for depth. Did you expect them to not add anyone as they lost 3 players?



They had no depth to begin with. Every guy they brought in to be a backup retired. I mean I like Nick Gates and Lemieux, but it’s not like this line was good even when they were healthy. I mean we have Solder starting at RT, which means Peart must really suck.


They brought in Price and Bredeson for backup... To be honest those were excellent adds... both have played pretty decent for backups. Remember neither should be playing. Of course now even Bredeson is out so that hurts. You want to talk about not upgrading RT ok I get it... but you can't complain they are bringing in more OL as people get hurt.
If I remember correctly  
Bergen346 : 9/29/2021 8:15 pm : link
He also said something along the lines of “guys, at some point in time we need to go with the guys we have” meaning they had already invested so much in the OL they needed to finally see those players grow into who they thought they could be.

Turns out it looks like their player evaluation was terrible, especially on the OL, but lets not forget we lost two starters to injuries and two veteran OL who were signed to be reliable depth.

At some point in time you cant invest even more into one position, you have to trust you drafted the right guys. Problem is its clear we didn’t draft the right guys. DG should do everyone a favor and retire.
RE: RE: you do  
Amtoft : 9/29/2021 8:16 pm : link
In comment 15391437 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15391368 Amtoft said:


Quote:


realize we are adding people now because we have lost 3 starting players? Starter goes down you add a player for depth, another one goes down, you add a player for depth, another one goes down you add another for depth. Did you expect them to not add anyone as they lost 3 players?



Sure, but the depth consisted of a couple of guys picked off the trash heap on cut day. That is emblematic of the personnel issues.


The depth was traded for OL Price and traded for OL Bredeson... They both supposed to be backups... Both have played pretty damn well for backups. Now Bredeson is hurt also. I mean tough to keep 15 OL but by the end of the season we may need that many if not more.
Judge needs to step up  
big canoe jeff : 9/29/2021 8:16 pm : link
Has clout now needs to fire Garrett push for his GM otherwise he’ll end up gone like all the other Patriot assts. losing has to stop.
RE: Gettleman has no plan  
Bergen346 : 9/29/2021 8:17 pm : link
In comment 15391509 big canoe jeff said:
Quote:
Everybody knows it. brain dead Mara makes cosmetic changes only along with his temper tantrums Rinse repeat. What Patriot assts. have succeeded? looks like judge way over his head like Patricia
Gettleman drafting and trades have been pathetic any other team/sport would have been long gone


I dont think this is accurate. DG clearly had a plan, just a bad one that failed miserably.

I know for a fact former players believe Judge is the real deal, they wanted DG gone and Judge to have MORE control over the roster and the draft process.
You at at least draft  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/29/2021 8:17 pm : link
2 Ol and preferably more every year. Where I disagree is where you pick them. You start throwing all your 1st.2nd round picks you suffer elsewhere. Dallas is a prime example. Then you get a older and highly expensive OL held together with duct tape and hope.

I thought a big mistake the Giants made back in 2009 was not drafted enough OL to replace a very expensive OL.

The changes in lower football coupled with the CBA make it harder to identify and more importantly coach players. The players are in the college game. It’s just harder to identify them with how the game is played .

Your OL coach is key in this. NE had a good OL for twenty years. Everywhere Callahan goes the OL’s perform well.

I have no issue with DG going. Do people think if Judge was very concerned with the OL that he didn’t say this to Mara and Dave? Do we think they told him tough, make it work? The Dave hate goes a little extreme when you have significant areas of this roster with a very big Judge influence.





Very easy to know why Giants have continued to suck  
big canoe jeff : 9/29/2021 8:21 pm : link
listen to Mke Lombardi GM shuffle for the uniformed
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/29/2021 8:25 pm : link
Whatever he 'resigns' or 'retires'...I feel confident in stating he won't be calling the shots next spring. Thank God. And let's pray it isn't Abrams. Good Lord...this franchise needs someone outside the 'Giants Family'. Enough of this loyalty BS.
RE: Very easy to know why Giants have continued to suck  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/29/2021 8:26 pm : link
In comment 15391533 big canoe jeff said:
Quote:
listen to Mke Lombardi GM shuffle for the uniformed


As I've said multiple times, Lombardi loves Lombardi. But he isn't wrong about what ails the Giants.
Gettleman should have clustter drafted OL  
big canoe jeff : 9/29/2021 8:28 pm : link
Like George Young did when Parcells told him we don’t have any receivers back in 84. GM listened to HC never know whether Judge pushes Gettleman on anything
When did they cluster draft  
Giants73 : 9/29/2021 8:31 pm : link
WRs in the early 80s
 
christian : 9/29/2021 8:35 pm : link
Gettleman’s primary plan for backup interior linemen was Harrison and Fulton. Both fared pretty poorly their last times out in real games. These guys are not good football players. That was a bad plan.

As the pre-season developed Fulton, and the next man up for a few hours (Looney) retired. All of the players originally brought in were deemed to not be good enough.

The Giants had to go acquire a back up center and guard because of terrible roster management.
Because their WRs totally sucked  
big canoe jeff : 9/29/2021 8:36 pm : link
Ernest Gray not much else
Mike Lombardi  
big canoe jeff : 9/29/2021 8:42 pm : link
For the uniformed obvious why team sucks
We cut Zeitler and kept Solder  
kdog77 : 9/29/2021 8:47 pm : link
nuff said on Dave's ability to evaluate OL talent.

My biggest issue with DG is that he does not seem to know his audience when he speaks publicly. When he speaks to the media he doesn't appear to know or care that fans are watching and is just verbally jousting with the reporters like it some sort of game. It is extremely disrespectful to treat the fans like idiots. We are the ones who have watched this team struggle for years to protect the QB and to say the OL is fixed and we don't need to draft any more OL when we all saw them disintegrate the year before is just absurd. I hope Mara understands that Dave's shtick has worn thin and the boos are partly due to his dumb ass comments over the year as much as the putrid product he has put on the field.
The only constant  
Bergen346 : 9/29/2021 8:53 pm : link
During this period is Mara. Cant fire three coaches in a row after two years, thats not going to fix this problem.

Unfortunately we are years away from being a good team with sustained success. DG is a pawn, doing the Maras bidding. We need to clean house in the front office. Who cares about radical change in our offensive game plan, we need radical change in our front office or else this franchise will continue to be the worst franchise in the NFL since 2017.

Let’s hope Mara is secure enough to admit all his friends need to be fired and replaced with fresh blood.
RE: RE: RE: you do  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 8:55 pm : link
In comment 15391524 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15391375 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


In comment 15391368 Amtoft said:


Quote:


realize we are adding people now because we have lost 3 starting players? Starter goes down you add a player for depth, another one goes down, you add a player for depth, another one goes down you add another for depth. Did you expect them to not add anyone as they lost 3 players?



They had no depth to begin with. Every guy they brought in to be a backup retired. I mean I like Nick Gates and Lemieux, but it’s not like this line was good even when they were healthy. I mean we have Solder starting at RT, which means Peart must really suck.



They brought in Price and Bredeson for backup... To be honest those were excellent adds... both have played pretty decent for backups. Remember neither should be playing. Of course now even Bredeson is out so that hurts. You want to talk about not upgrading RT ok I get it... but you can't complain they are bringing in more OL as people get hurt.


I’m not complaining about then bringing in Wilson. The trades they had to make for Bredeson and Price after cut day were due to having zero depth. They decided to pass on offensive line in the draft and instead sign players like Fulton and Looney who retired before the season started. And all of the young guys they were supposedly developing all offseason were just flat out cut.

I honestly don’t know how anyone can even attempt to defend Gettlemen with this line “rebuild.” As I mentioned earlier, this line was bottom league level before anyone got hurt. Remember, he was supposed to be some hog mollie guru when he showed up here. This line is no better than when Reese was here. It may be worse except our more mobile QB is avoiding s lot of the sacks Eli would have taken.
Going into the year  
Giants73 : 9/29/2021 8:57 pm : link
This looked to be an o line moving in the right direction. Thomas played hurt last year and improved as the season went on. Gates looked to lock down the center spot. Lemuixe looked adequate as a rookie with no preseason. Hernandez is a serviceable guard. Peart showed signs that he could be a good tackle, always thought of as a project when drafted. Peart blew out his back after the draft and missed a lot of time in camp. Lemuixe(however you spell it) was looking better til he got hurt and Gates got injured. But going in with these 5 and a serviceable swing tackle in Solder. With Murphy who they were high on, and Fuller it looked like the o line was set to improve. Thomas has improved, Hernandez has been maybe the second best linemen, the rest are there for injuries.
Hernandez has been awful...  
bw in dc : 9/29/2021 9:00 pm : link
...
RE: Going into the year  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 9:00 pm : link
In comment 15391588 Giants73 said:
Quote:
This looked to be an o line moving in the right direction. Thomas played hurt last year and improved as the season went on. Gates looked to lock down the center spot. Lemuixe looked adequate as a rookie with no preseason. Hernandez is a serviceable guard. Peart showed signs that he could be a good tackle, always thought of as a project when drafted. Peart blew out his back after the draft and missed a lot of time in camp. Lemuixe(however you spell it) was looking better til he got hurt and Gates got injured. But going in with these 5 and a serviceable swing tackle in Solder. With Murphy who they were high on, and Fuller it looked like the o line was set to improve. Thomas has improved, Hernandez has been maybe the second best linemen, the rest are there for injuries.


Hernandez sucks. He has actually regressed from his rookie year which is crazy. And Peart is an unknown. The argument of you can’t have enough pass rushers applies to the offensive line in today’s NFL. They should have drafted Slater.
Eric  
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2021 9:13 pm : link
like clockwork, every year, it’s “we should have drafted this guy” not even a single year after the draft, when all of these players are still rookies.

During the season, everyone on earth was saying “I can’t believe we drafted Thomas over Becton! I can’t believe we drafted Thomas over Wills and Wirfs!”

How does that look now?

You have to let drafts play out man. Toney could be really awesome. He’s played like 2 fucking games.

Slater? Yeah - he looks good. Drafts aren’t judged after 3 games. Let’s fucking see my man.
I mean literally  
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2021 9:16 pm : link
we had people losing their shit over Andrew Thomas all of last season, saying drafting him was a firable offense.
RE: I mean literally  
Bergen346 : 9/29/2021 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15391606 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we had people losing their shit over Andrew Thomas all of last season, saying drafting him was a firable offense.


Isn’t it funny what difference time makes? Football players take time to develop. I wish everyone would realize their are no quick fixes in the NFL.

The biggest issue is our front office. Not Judge, not JG, not Jones, not Graham. Until we get he front office functioning at a high level we will be in football hell.
RE: I mean literally  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 9:23 pm : link
In comment 15391606 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we had people losing their shit over Andrew Thomas all of last season, saying drafting him was a firable offense.


I get it Ryan, and for the record I was not panicking over Thomas. Who knows with Toney, unfortunately for him our OC calls games like it’s fucking 1995.

It’s not really about “oh we should have drafted Slater.” It’s the fact that the front office literally completely ignored the offensive line over the course of the entire draft. They bet the farm on Hernandez being able to replace Zeitler and Peart being the starting RT. I didn’t see CB as being a strong need with what we already had plus the addition of Adoree Jackson. So they draft two more CB’s.

And if they honestly thought Solder would be a good RT and planned on developing Peart throughout the year then it’s even worse than I thought.
I’ve also been somewhat of a DG apologist  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 9:26 pm : link
on here for the last few years. Not anymore, this is year 4 of the “rebuild” and it’s quite possible we are looking at a 2 or 3 win season. There are no excuses anymore. This team sucks.
Eric  
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2021 9:26 pm : link
I gotcha. Incredibly frustrating. They liked the WR class I imagine just a bit better than the OL class - and figured they’d make the trade when the Bears called. They obviously had faith in majority of the OL and that hasn’t turned out the way everyone was thinking it would - the two injuries being a big part of that. But - no excuses. They traded the pick and got a 1st rounder in 2022 and were fine with some of the top OL being gone.

We will see within 2-3 years who ended up being on the right side of that coin in terms of that specific trade.
Eric  
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2021 9:28 pm : link
CB is just a big a need as OL was/is. Bradberry is in year 2 of a 3 year deal. Outside of that, we signed Jackson. Who else did we have? Robinson was a pick that was seen by many as one of the better picks of round 3.
RE: I’ve also been somewhat of a DG apologist  
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2021 9:28 pm : link
In comment 15391620 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
on here for the last few years. Not anymore, this is year 4 of the “rebuild” and it’s quite possible we are looking at a 2 or 3 win season. There are no excuses anymore. This team sucks.

We have played 3 games. We’ll see. 14 games to go.
RE: Eric  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 9:29 pm : link
In comment 15391621 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I gotcha. Incredibly frustrating. They liked the WR class I imagine just a bit better than the OL class - and figured they’d make the trade when the Bears called. They obviously had faith in majority of the OL and that hasn’t turned out the way everyone was thinking it would - the two injuries being a big part of that. But - no excuses. They traded the pick and got a 1st rounder in 2022 and were fine with some of the top OL being gone.

We will see within 2-3 years who ended up being on the right side of that coin in terms of that specific trade.


Hopefully those extra picks work out. I just hope it’s not DG making the picks. This would be the perfect offseason to bring in a new modern thinking GM that could finish the job. We have a lot of young talent. It’s not a total tear down situation. I would like to see some aggressive play calling so we can figure out if those two high picks next year will be for another QB or bolstering the line.
RE: RE: Eric  
Bergen346 : 9/29/2021 9:35 pm : link
In comment 15391624 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 15391621 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


I gotcha. Incredibly frustrating. They liked the WR class I imagine just a bit better than the OL class - and figured they’d make the trade when the Bears called. They obviously had faith in majority of the OL and that hasn’t turned out the way everyone was thinking it would - the two injuries being a big part of that. But - no excuses. They traded the pick and got a 1st rounder in 2022 and were fine with some of the top OL being gone.

We will see within 2-3 years who ended up being on the right side of that coin in terms of that specific trade.



Hopefully those extra picks work out. I just hope it’s not DG making the picks. This would be the perfect offseason to bring in a new modern thinking GM that could finish the job. We have a lot of young talent. It’s not a total tear down situation. I would like to see some aggressive play calling so we can figure out if those two high picks next year will be for another QB or bolstering the line.


The entire problem is our front office! If we have two top ten first round picks we better hope we have a new FO, or else we will miss a golden opportunity. DG, Chris Mara, Kevin Abrahams, everyone has to go. Mara needs to nut up and fire his friends and family or else we will get more of the same for years to come.
RE: RE: RE: Eric  
eric2425ny : 9/29/2021 9:42 pm : link
In comment 15391627 Bergen346 said:
Quote:
In comment 15391624 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


In comment 15391621 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


I gotcha. Incredibly frustrating. They liked the WR class I imagine just a bit better than the OL class - and figured they’d make the trade when the Bears called. They obviously had faith in majority of the OL and that hasn’t turned out the way everyone was thinking it would - the two injuries being a big part of that. But - no excuses. They traded the pick and got a 1st rounder in 2022 and were fine with some of the top OL being gone.

We will see within 2-3 years who ended up being on the right side of that coin in terms of that specific trade.



Hopefully those extra picks work out. I just hope it’s not DG making the picks. This would be the perfect offseason to bring in a new modern thinking GM that could finish the job. We have a lot of young talent. It’s not a total tear down situation. I would like to see some aggressive play calling so we can figure out if those two high picks next year will be for another QB or bolstering the line.



The entire problem is our front office! If we have two top ten first round picks we better hope we have a new FO, or else we will miss a golden opportunity. DG, Chris Mara, Kevin Abrahams, everyone has to go. Mara needs to nut up and fire his friends and family or else we will get more of the same for years to come.


Totally agree. I mean let’s be honest. Look at their schedule. They had to win at least 2 of these first three games to have any chance. Between us and the Bears you are looking at two potential top 5 picks. That’s a franchise changing draft. If they leave it in the hands of the current staff it is a waste.
Some changes in front offices are warranted  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/29/2021 9:50 pm : link
The two key people on the field are your HC and QB and both have more proving at this point.

I’ll be focusing a lot on Judge. He can still turn it around but not many HC’s show long term success when they don’t get a team performance improvement year 2. His influence is all over a lot of the decisions made in the draft and FA imv.



Couldn’t agree more Eric  
Bergen346 : 9/29/2021 9:52 pm : link
If thats how is goes, and we have two top ten draft picks, and Mara doesn’t make radical changes in the FO then they will lose me as a fan and a season ticket holder.

Enough is enough. Stop firing coaches, stop taking half measures. Look yourself in the mirror John Mara and have the stones to admit you need to change how this organization and FO operate. We need fresh blood who are diverse in opinion. Shit rolls down hill and I am tired of coaches and players taking he brunt of it.

Fix it John, it starts and ends with you.
RE: Some changes in front offices are warranted  
Bergen346 : 9/29/2021 9:54 pm : link
In comment 15391647 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
The two key people on the field are your HC and QB and both have more proving at this point.

I’ll be focusing a lot on Judge. He can still turn it around but not many HC’s show long term success when they don’t get a team performance improvement year 2. His influence is all over a lot of the decisions made in the draft and FA imv.




I respect your opinion, but I dont think Judge has had as much influence as you say. I have reliable sources that indicate DG and Mara’s minions have too much say. These people want Judge to have MORE control, and despite his poor in game decisions they believe in him.
The line wasn't  
darren in pdx : 9/29/2021 9:59 pm : link
going to be great but it's not the line-up they envisioned entering the season due to injuries. Injuries just make it go from bad to worse as they mount.
RE: Gettleman is a colossal asshole  
prdave73 : 9/29/2021 11:16 pm : link
In comment 15391373 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
Half of the starting OL would be depth linemen (at best) on good teams, and he was sure he had it all set.

It'll be a great day when this smug fool is gone.


Agree 100%
Can't wait
RE: RE: Some changes in front offices are warranted  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/30/2021 7:26 am : link
In comment 15391656 Bergen346 said:
Quote:
In comment 15391647 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


The two key people on the field are your HC and QB and both have more proving at this point.

I’ll be focusing a lot on Judge. He can still turn it around but not many HC’s show long term success when they don’t get a team performance improvement year 2. His influence is all over a lot of the decisions made in the draft and FA imv.






I respect your opinion, but I dont think Judge has had as much influence as you say. I have reliable sources that indicate DG and Mara’s minions have too much say. These people want Judge to have MORE control, and despite his poor in game decisions they believe in him.



Interesting but I am looking a few things. The drafting of Thomas, McKinney, Toney, Olujari were all premium picks and coming from schools where Judge has relationships with the staff. Then you have quite a few LB's and Secondary players some who were drafted with specials in mind including Brightwell.

On the Free Agency side you add Galloday and Jackson to go along with Ryan last year. These players were high ticket targets and all have a deep connection to Judge and in Jackson's case a deep connection to Ryan who was a very high priority for him.

So looking at all this I am not sure how much control you want to give unless as I have said you see more results on the field.
RE: Yesterday...  
chick310 : 9/30/2021 7:43 am : link
In comment 15391380 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I almost started a thread for people to post their favorite DG quote.

This one would have been definitely been in the mix.


Yes, the board needs that thread about all of his best quotes and gifs. Would be pretty funny.
Do They Know their Own Players?  
Rafflee : 9/30/2021 8:04 am : link
Their opinion of their OL players was different than the Market Forecast. They have counted on development in addition to talent in place.

I grant them some forgiveness based on the Injuries to Lemieux and Gates.....PEART stands out as a clear mis-measure, because Nate Solder is The Worst NFL Starter bthat I can remember...and Peart is SITTING.
I really do not  
crick n NC : 9/30/2021 8:07 am : link
Remember what was on the OL market this year. And just because a player is on the market does not mean a team will sign them even if the team wants to.
RE: Do They Know their Own Players?  
chick310 : 9/30/2021 8:12 am : link
In comment 15391792 Rafflee said:
Quote:
Their opinion of their OL players was different than the Market Forecast. They have counted on development in addition to talent in place.

I grant them some forgiveness based on the Injuries to Lemieux and Gates.....PEART stands out as a clear mis-measure, because Nate Solder is The Worst NFL Starter bthat I can remember...and Peart is SITTING.


The coaches going with a basically retiring Solder tells you they don't trust Peart. He must be struggling with raw fundamentals, some of which we saw come through in one of the preseason games.

The decision not to give the starters, some young and some not, more time in preseason to get themselves situated for the start of the season does not look good right now. Peart is a good example.
Ol  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/30/2021 8:21 am : link
Some on here were arguing to keep Zeitler or sign someone like Thuney. The Chiefs gave him 5 years and 80 million. With all the other needs they chose other priorities.

Like a lot of interior guys Thuney was a third round pick.

The Giants are taking the right approach of drafting later round picks mixed in with a higher pick (Thomas). Unfortunately two got hurt, Peart isn't getting on the field and WH a second rounder never lived up to expectations. Then they have the issue of a limited pipeline.

The question that has to be answered is it the talent evaluation, coaching, scheme, etc.?
RE: Ol  
rsjem1979 : 9/30/2021 8:43 am : link
In comment 15391801 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Some on here were arguing to keep Zeitler or sign someone like Thuney. The Chiefs gave him 5 years and 80 million. With all the other needs they chose other priorities.

Like a lot of interior guys Thuney was a third round pick.

The Giants are taking the right approach of drafting later round picks mixed in with a higher pick (Thomas). Unfortunately two got hurt, Peart isn't getting on the field and WH a second rounder never lived up to expectations. Then they have the issue of a limited pipeline.

The question that has to be answered is it the talent evaluation, coaching, scheme, etc.?


They drafted 1 OL in 2018, none until the 7th round in 2019, and none in 2021. That's why there's no "pipeline".
o line  
bobc : 9/30/2021 8:48 am : link
To be fair when Gettleman made that comment he thought Gates would be at center and Shane Lemieux would be playing left guard. He also had his 2 primary reserves retire on him. I am not happy with a lot of things on the team this year but we should be honest with what happened.
RE: RE: Some changes in front offices are warranted  
cosmicj : 9/30/2021 9:00 am : link
In comment 15391656 Bergen346 said:
Quote:


I respect your opinion, but I dont think Judge has had as much influence as you say. I have reliable sources that indicate DG and Mara’s minions have too much say. These people want Judge to have MORE control, and despite his poor in game decisions they believe in him.


Bergen - that’s really interesting. Who are Mara’s minions? Are you able to be more specific.
While it is fair to point out the retirements  
Section331 : 9/30/2021 9:07 am : link
and injuries as reasons for bringing in every FA OL west of Berlin, that is just another example of Gettleman's failure to build up the OL. Every year, his depth depended on signing cheap vets, rather than stocking the roster with cheap young draft picks. So rather than having vets happy on the bench with their paycheck, bring in rookies who will fight to win a job.

Look at Baltimore, they continually draft OL, which is why they can shed a guy like Bredeson after only one year. That doesn't prohibit signing veteran OL, as BALT did with Zeitler, but it shouldn't be your entire depth plan.
.  
Gruber : 9/30/2021 9:10 am : link
Don't forget when Gettleman arrived in New York, he proclaimed about hog mollies.
Since 2017, he's drafted 7 corner backs, and 6 offensive linemen, however two of those were 6th and 7th round picks, neither of whom are currently active in the NFL, and no OLinemen were taken in the most recent draft. Of the six, the only real success has been Andrew Thomas. Will Hernandez has been a letdown, considering he's a 2nd round pick.

And, as I have argued previously, surely to justify taking a running back with the #2 over all pick, your offensive line needs to be not just okay, but one of the best.

I want Gettleman out of the building.
"full bloom love"....."touched by the hand of God"  
Greg from LI : 9/30/2021 9:10 am : link
What a fuckin' buffoon.
RE:  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/30/2021 9:16 am : link
In comment 15391852 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
What a fuckin' buffoon.


So incredible that if he were the GM of Washington or Dallas, this guy would be a unanimous punchline for every joke and meme posted on this website.
RE: o line  
GF1080 : 9/30/2021 9:18 am : link
In comment 15391828 bobc said:
Quote:
To be fair when Gettleman made that comment he thought Gates would be at center and Shane Lemieux would be playing left guard. He also had his 2 primary reserves retire on him. I am not happy with a lot of things on the team this year but we should be honest with what happened.


One of those primary reserves was considered one of the worst OL in the sport. Let's not act like he was all that good anyway.
I wouldn't call it definitive just yet  
JonC : 9/30/2021 9:18 am : link
but it is looking like NYG is still struggling to identify OL and LB talent ...
RE: o line  
rsjem1979 : 9/30/2021 9:20 am : link
In comment 15391828 bobc said:
Quote:
To be fair when Gettleman made that comment he thought Gates would be at center and Shane Lemieux would be playing left guard. He also had his 2 primary reserves retire on him. I am not happy with a lot of things on the team this year but we should be honest with what happened.


To be fair, "let's not try to improve any position on a questionable OL" is incredibly dumb.
It's a few days after the season ends  
eugibs : 9/30/2021 9:34 am : link
The Giants started 1-13, but finished winning their last three against Philly, Chicago, and Washington. On the basis of the late season surge, John Mara decides to retain Dave Gettleman. "This is progress we can build on," Mara says at the end of season press conference.

Gettleman sits smugly and, through a smirk, says "I am vindicated."
RE: o line  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/30/2021 11:46 am : link
In comment 15391828 bobc said:
Quote:
To be fair when Gettleman made that comment he thought Gates would be at center and Shane Lemieux would be playing left guard. He also had his 2 primary reserves retire on him. I am not happy with a lot of things on the team this year but we should be honest with what happened.

To be fair, Lemieux didn't show enough last year to not be pushed from behind. To be even more fair, one of those two "primary reserves" wasn't even signed until training camp began, so quiet that noise, please.

It's clear that this organization wants flashy skill position players and will only draft or sign OL when their back is against the wall.

They should be drafting an OL prospect in the first three rounds every year until the OL is fixed, however long that takes.

They didn't learn a fucking thing from George Young.
RE: I wouldn't call it definitive just yet  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/30/2021 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15391871 JonC said:
Quote:
but it is looking like NYG is still struggling to identify OL and LB talent ...


Which is a major, major problem when you want to play 3-4 and have an OC that likes down and distance and needs everything to flow through the run game. Unless we finish with 8 wins there is nothing that would indicate to me we shouldn't clean house...completely this time.
 
christian : 9/30/2021 12:20 pm : link
The original thesis was Fulton, Harrison, and Solder as the primary depth.

Let’s not pretend like that was a good plan, regardless of the developments with retirements and camp battles.
I also think their is blood on DG's hands  
NoGainDayne : 9/30/2021 12:51 pm : link
for the Gates injury. You have Gates his first game, out of position, playing next to a last minute addition to the line that he didn't even get a full camp with.

In a freak injury like that you can absolutely say that Gates wouldn't have been in that position would it not have been for DG otherwise bungling the OL depth so severely. Gates was their best lineman on a young line, moving a player like that is not really a measure you should have to take especially when you had to trade away draft picks and a relatively high pick at another position to fill those needs at the last minute. You'd at least like those trades to mean people could stay in their primary positions.
RE: I also think their is blood on DG's hands  
Angel Eyes : 9/30/2021 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15392126 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
for the Gates injury. You have Gates his first game, out of position, playing next to a last minute addition to the line that he didn't even get a full camp with.

In a freak injury like that you can absolutely say that Gates wouldn't have been in that position would it not have been for DG otherwise bungling the OL depth so severely. Gates was their best lineman on a young line, moving a player like that is not really a measure you should have to take especially when you had to trade away draft picks and a relatively high pick at another position to fill those needs at the last minute. You'd at least like those trades to mean people could stay in their primary positions.

Depends. Who gets a say in which player starts where on the offensive line?
RE: RE: o line  
Section331 : 9/30/2021 1:04 pm : link
In comment 15392060 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:

To be fair, Lemieux didn't show enough last year to not be pushed from behind. To be even more fair, one of those two "primary reserves" wasn't even signed until training camp began, so quiet that noise, please.

It's clear that this organization wants flashy skill position players and will only draft or sign OL when their back is against the wall.

They should be drafting an OL prospect in the first three rounds every year until the OL is fixed, however long that takes.

They didn't learn a fucking thing from George Young.


This. This. This.

Gettleman's idea of OL depth is to find cheap vets, rather than using the draft. Cheap vets are older (more likely to get hurt), not very good (or else they wouldn't be cheap!), and may be perfectly happy to sit on the bench and collect a paycheck. You need backups to push starters.
RE: RE: I also think their is blood on DG's hands  
NoGainDayne : 9/30/2021 1:35 pm : link
In comment 15392134 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15392126 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


for the Gates injury. You have Gates his first game, out of position, playing next to a last minute addition to the line that he didn't even get a full camp with.

In a freak injury like that you can absolutely say that Gates wouldn't have been in that position would it not have been for DG otherwise bungling the OL depth so severely. Gates was their best lineman on a young line, moving a player like that is not really a measure you should have to take especially when you had to trade away draft picks and a relatively high pick at another position to fill those needs at the last minute. You'd at least like those trades to mean people could stay in their primary positions.


Depends. Who gets a say in which player starts where on the offensive line?


Blood isn't leveling the blame on one person at least not to me. Easy to say that the poor depth of the line built by DG was a part of why Gates had to move.
RE: RE: RE: I also think their is blood on DG's hands  
Angel Eyes : 9/30/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15392174 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15392134 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15392126 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


for the Gates injury. You have Gates his first game, out of position, playing next to a last minute addition to the line that he didn't even get a full camp with.

In a freak injury like that you can absolutely say that Gates wouldn't have been in that position would it not have been for DG otherwise bungling the OL depth so severely. Gates was their best lineman on a young line, moving a player like that is not really a measure you should have to take especially when you had to trade away draft picks and a relatively high pick at another position to fill those needs at the last minute. You'd at least like those trades to mean people could stay in their primary positions.


Depends. Who gets a say in which player starts where on the offensive line?



Blood isn't leveling the blame on one person at least not to me. Easy to say that the poor depth of the line built by DG was a part of why Gates had to move.

I would have gone with keeping Gates at center, starting Bredeson at left guard, and Hernandez at right guard. For some reason they went with Price who hasn't done a good job.
RE: RE: RE: I also think their is blood on DG's hands  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/30/2021 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15392174 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15392134 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15392126 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


for the Gates injury. You have Gates his first game, out of position, playing next to a last minute addition to the line that he didn't even get a full camp with.

In a freak injury like that you can absolutely say that Gates wouldn't have been in that position would it not have been for DG otherwise bungling the OL depth so severely. Gates was their best lineman on a young line, moving a player like that is not really a measure you should have to take especially when you had to trade away draft picks and a relatively high pick at another position to fill those needs at the last minute. You'd at least like those trades to mean people could stay in their primary positions.


Depends. Who gets a say in which player starts where on the offensive line?



Blood isn't leveling the blame on one person at least not to me. Easy to say that the poor depth of the line built by DG was a part of why Gates had to move.

It's 100% why Gates had to move.

Who was the backup OLG even if the line was healthy? Hernandez, presumably? And then Fulton was the backup ORG to cover Hernandez? Or would Harrison have been viewed as option that represented a lesser loss, in which case we'd still be looking at Gates moving?

Gates's injury was a freak occurrence, and could have happened even at OC, so I'm not going to blame the shift for that. But the fact that he was adjacent to a desperate addition to the lineup is at least partly on DG, isn't it? Where are all the "hawg mawllies" that he promised he was going to add to the roster?

I'm not sure when some fans will realize this, but DG is a soundbite-machine, full of bluster, but not really full of any plan to back up his words. He just likes to hear himself talk.
RE: RE: I wouldn't call it definitive just yet  
JonC : 9/30/2021 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15392079 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15391871 JonC said:


Quote:


but it is looking like NYG is still struggling to identify OL and LB talent ...



Which is a major, major problem when you want to play 3-4 and have an OC that likes down and distance and needs everything to flow through the run game. Unless we finish with 8 wins there is nothing that would indicate to me we shouldn't clean house...completely this time.


And I'm not handwringing too much over losing Lemieux and Gates. Both are young bucks playing with spunk, but not playing well enough yet where I'd rest on laurels and suggest we've found two long term starters. That's how bad it's gotten, we're desperate for answers and results. I think we've found one starter in AT, provided he keeps improving.
Gates probably would have been a long term answer, but Lemiuex  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/30/2021 2:11 pm : link
would be hopeful at best. I get the vision if you didn’t like the way the draft fell. AT Lemiuex Gates Hernandez Peart/Thomas (which you could help in pass game) with some veteran interior pieces for depth. That at least gives you some ability to run the offense the way Garrett wants to run it . Welll that plan blew up spectacularly in their face and Garrett shows a faith like adherence to his scheme, which is what bothers me the most. There’s a reason why some dude we just picked up off the street is more productive than our first round pick and the pick makes no sense with how Garrett wants to run things.

14 games to go, but considering our coaching staff has had 3 excellent chances at self reflection and come up small I don’t have nearly the faith in them that Garrett does in his scheme.
Just digging into the comment of being like the Ravens  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 9/30/2021 2:14 pm : link
and drafting an OL every year so you can have a pipeline of talent, and not resort to the scrap heap for depth.

Looking at their draft history, of OL picks in the top 150 of each draft (typically gets you through the first 4 rounds/few picks into round 5), as I consider rounds 6-7 the "need to get lucky" range.

2021:
OG Ben Cleveland- 94th Overall (Rd 3)

2020:
OG/OT Tyre Phillips- 106 Overall (Rd 3)
OG Ben Bredeson- 143 Overall (Rd 4)

2019:
OG Ben Powers- 123 Overall (Rd 4)

2018:
OT Orlando Brown Jr- 83 Overall (Round 3)

2017:
OG Nico Siragusa- 122 Overall (Round 4)

2016:
OT Ronnie Stanley- 6 Overall (Round 1)
OT Alex Lewis- 130 Overall (Round 4)

Compared to the Giants:
2021:
None

2020:
OT Andrew Thomas- 4 Overall (Rd 1)
OT Matt Peart- 99 Overall (Rd 3)
OG Shane Lemieux- 150 Overall (Rd 5)

2019:
None

2018:
OG Will Hernandez- 34 Overall (Rd 2)

2017:
None

2016:
None

Interesting because with the consistent filling of the pipeline like Baltimore, you get to evaluate each pick without needing to take a big swing (relying) like we did in 2020, and having the misses really set us back and needing to rely on the older vets.
Bergen  
afann : 9/30/2021 6:16 pm : link
Who are the minions? I believe Chris Mara has to go. As far as Judge, based on others in the know here, it's him calling the shots. So, what you are indicating, which is interesting, is that it DG and JM making the decisions. NO MARA SHOULD EVER MAKE FOOTBALL DECISIONS!!! I have to believe the HC has a say in the players he wants. Didn't DG get Schumer his guys and they are now gone? Wouldn't you say DG is getting Judge's his guys? The GM gets players or type of players the HC wants, right? I'm not a DG fan but I do believe he is woking to get Judge the guys he wants.
RE: The only constant  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/1/2021 3:52 pm : link
In comment 15391583 Bergen346 said:
Quote:
During this period is Mara. Cant fire three coaches in a row after two years, thats not going to fix this problem.

Unfortunately we are years away from being a good team with sustained success. DG is a pawn, doing the Maras bidding. We need to clean house in the front office. Who cares about radical change in our offensive game plan, we need radical change in our front office or else this franchise will continue to be the worst franchise in the NFL since 2017.

Let’s hope Mara is secure enough to admit all his friends need to be fired and replaced with fresh blood.

This is not binary.

The Maras are a problem.

Gettleman is also a problem.

The Maras are not the root cause of Gettleman being one of the problems except for them having hired him.
RE: Just digging into the comment of being like the Ravens  
Jerry in_DC : 10/1/2021 9:14 pm : link
In comment 15392245 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
and drafting an OL every year so you can have a pipeline of talent, and not resort to the scrap heap for depth.

Looking at their draft history, of OL picks in the top 150 of each draft (typically gets you through the first 4 rounds/few picks into round 5), as I consider rounds 6-7 the "need to get lucky" range.

2021:
OG Ben Cleveland- 94th Overall (Rd 3)

2020:
OG/OT Tyre Phillips- 106 Overall (Rd 3)
OG Ben Bredeson- 143 Overall (Rd 4)

2019:
OG Ben Powers- 123 Overall (Rd 4)

2018:
OT Orlando Brown Jr- 83 Overall (Round 3)

2017:
OG Nico Siragusa- 122 Overall (Round 4)

2016:
OT Ronnie Stanley- 6 Overall (Round 1)
OT Alex Lewis- 130 Overall (Round 4)

Compared to the Giants:
2021:
None

2020:
OT Andrew Thomas- 4 Overall (Rd 1)
OT Matt Peart- 99 Overall (Rd 3)
OG Shane Lemieux- 150 Overall (Rd 5)

2019:
None

2018:
OG Will Hernandez- 34 Overall (Rd 2)

2017:
None

2016:
None

Interesting because with the consistent filling of the pipeline like Baltimore, you get to evaluate each pick without needing to take a big swing (relying) like we did in 2020, and having the misses really set us back and needing to rely on the older vets.


That is interesting to see it laid out like that. And good point on the evaluation of the pipeline. It's pretty remarkable that a guy who said he's going to fix the OL and drafted so few. He did acquire Solder, Zeigler, and Omameh in fairness.

As an aside, for many years, the Giants never hit on any of the mid round OLs, which was really frustrating. Just 1 or 2 hits would've make a big difference. Talent eval sucks and I've wondered about the coaching. For no good reason at all, I always thought Mitch Petrus should have been good.
Back to the Corner