for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Asshat Info Regarding GM Candidate

Capt. Don : 9/30/2021 7:54 pm
Was told by someone very close to the situation (not on the Giants side) that if DG is fired or retires, that Ryan Poles who is the Executive Director of Player Personnel for the Chiefs is on their short list. The Bears are also interested.

Obviously, nothing may come to fruition and if it does, it wont be for a while but I heard from someone who is close to the situation.
I think this  
section125 : 9/30/2021 7:55 pm : link
will come to pass this year - DG replaced.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/30/2021 7:55 pm : link
No clue who that dude is, but considering that organization's success recently...I'm intrigued.
I like someone connected to the Chiefs  
Producer : 9/30/2021 7:56 pm : link
I like that very much. Don't know more than that about this guy.

The Bears is more attractive, though.
Gettleman will definitely be let go  
Jay on the Island : 9/30/2021 7:57 pm : link
Thanks for sharing Capt Don.
Boston College per his LinkedIn  
Sean : 9/30/2021 7:57 pm : link
.
RE: Boston College per his LinkedIn  
section125 : 9/30/2021 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15392598 Sean said:
Quote:
.


There you go - the BC link.
RE: Boston College per his LinkedIn  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/30/2021 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15392598 Sean said:
Quote:
.


Haha. Checks the Maras box.
It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/30/2021 7:59 pm : link
That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.
Can’t go wrong with a BC man.  
bceagle05 : 9/30/2021 8:01 pm : link
.
Love these scraps thx  
big canoe jeff : 9/30/2021 8:01 pm : link
Even Mara know he can’t bring Gettleman back fans will burn down stadium and john will be hung like his dad
RE: It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Producer : 9/30/2021 8:01 pm : link
In comment 15392602 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.


sure.. They have a QB that folks are excited about and we have owners who make you work with their nephews.
RE: I like someone connected to the Chiefs  
Mike in NY : 9/30/2021 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15392596 Producer said:
Quote:
I like that very much. Don't know more than that about this guy.

The Bears is more attractive, though.


Is it? No first round pick in 2022 and Justin Fields is definitely your QB for at least 2022 which may or may not be attractive. Nagy is a horrible head coach.
In Chicago you can’t pick a new QB, in New York you might be able to  
Ben in Tampa : 9/30/2021 8:03 pm : link
And I would expect Eric Bieniemy to come along for the ride when he picks his new coach
RE: RE: It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/30/2021 8:03 pm : link
In comment 15392606 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15392602 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.



sure.. They have a QB that folks are excited about and we have owners who make you work with their nephews.


Didn’t realize QB excitement worth was something that NFL execs care about, you truly are an LA guy. Bears fans are going to be disappointed once again, Fields isn’t the prospect they think he is.
I'm curious, if this isn't coming from the Giants side how would they  
steve in ky : 9/30/2021 8:04 pm : link
know what the Giants are thinking and who is on their short list? I wouldn't think Mara would reach out to someone prior to DG being let go. That would be very uncharacteristic of him.
The if part of the post  
Ike#88 : 9/30/2021 8:04 pm : link
is very concerning. DG has to be fired by the bye.
RE: RE: It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Mike in NY : 9/30/2021 8:04 pm : link
In comment 15392606 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15392602 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.



sure.. They have a QB that folks are excited about and we have owners who make you work with their nephews.


If people were so excited why did QB needy teams pass on him? Atlanta and Denver in particular who don’t have long term answers there both passed on him.
Of course, Mara will wait until the Wednesday after  
Ben in Tampa : 9/30/2021 8:05 pm : link
The season to fire Gettleman and by that time, all their top choices will be hired and he’ll be selling Abrams to what’s left of the fanbase.
The fact Matt Rhule passed on him is the most telling.  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/30/2021 8:09 pm : link
.
RE: RE: It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Jay on the Island : 9/30/2021 8:10 pm : link
In comment 15392606 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15392602 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.



sure.. They have a QB that folks are excited about and we have owners who make you work with their nephews.

They don't have a 1st round pick plus the QB "folks are excited about" just had an absolutely dreadful first start. If he has a few more games like that folks won't be excited.

The Giants are clearly a more attractive opening.
Maybe a search firm or many useful idiots in Mara’s family leaked  
big canoe jeff : 9/30/2021 8:11 pm : link
Unless new GM has total control they will pass
Pros ton of pics
Cons no cap space
Ny
Looks like their gonna have to boo even louder at Strahan's  
ghost718 : 9/30/2021 8:12 pm : link
.
Makes sense...  
bw in dc : 9/30/2021 8:13 pm : link
since Mara went to BC as well.

Just classic. Always able to find the dots... ;)
The Giants are the Knicks of the NFL  
Producer : 9/30/2021 8:13 pm : link
when they stop acting that way I might agree with you.
thanks for sharing  
Matt in SGS : 9/30/2021 8:16 pm : link
I wonder if this will play out like it did for Jerry Reese. When Accorsi retired (which is what I expect will happen with DG), the Giants 1st choice was Scott Pioli w/ the Patriots (Parcells' son-in-law for dots connecting). When Pioli passed on the Giants, they hired Reese who was there already.

If Poles decides to go elsewhere, so the Giants just give the job to Abrams?
Held director of college scouting title  
Chris684 : 9/30/2021 8:17 pm : link
for Chiefs when they moved up for Mahomes.

That’s going to get you recognition and a promotion.
RE: thanks for sharing  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/30/2021 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15392628 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I wonder if this will play out like it did for Jerry Reese. When Accorsi retired (which is what I expect will happen with DG), the Giants 1st choice was Scott Pioli w/ the Patriots (Parcells' son-in-law for dots connecting). When Pioli passed on the Giants, they hired Reese who was there already.

If Poles decides to go elsewhere, so the Giants just give the job to Abrams?


If Abrams gets the top gig...vomiting.
RE: thanks for sharing  
Sean : 9/30/2021 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15392628 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I wonder if this will play out like it did for Jerry Reese. When Accorsi retired (which is what I expect will happen with DG), the Giants 1st choice was Scott Pioli w/ the Patriots (Parcells' son-in-law for dots connecting). When Pioli passed on the Giants, they hired Reese who was there already.

If Poles decides to go elsewhere, so the Giants just give the job to Abrams?

Not when you are 18-49 in the last three seasons. The fans will revolt if it’s Abrams. I think even Mara knows that.

If the Giants rally to an 8-9 or better season, then I think it could be Abrams.
RE: RE: RE: It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Producer : 9/30/2021 8:20 pm : link
In comment 15392610 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15392606 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15392602 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.



sure.. They have a QB that folks are excited about and we have owners who make you work with their nephews.



Didn’t realize QB excitement worth was something that NFL execs care about, you truly are an LA guy. Bears fans are going to be disappointed once again, Fields isn’t the prospect they think he is.


and I'm more New York than you will ever be, pal.
Got to wonder if he wants to be a package with Bieniemy  
Sean : 9/30/2021 8:21 pm : link
.
RE: Got to wonder if he wants to be a package with Bieniemy  
Producer : 9/30/2021 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15392636 Sean said:
Quote:
.


maybe they should bring Mahomes, too.
Very young  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/30/2021 8:26 pm : link
But looks like solid background. Boston College.

My guess is one of the younger Mara’s has a strong relationship from time at BC.
Had two interviews  
jeff57 : 9/30/2021 8:27 pm : link
For the Panther GM spot.
Link - ( New Window )
That’s under the radar  
cosmicj : 9/30/2021 8:27 pm : link
Poles doesn’t have a bio on the Chiefs site, it looks like. Linking to his LinkedIn profile.
Poles - ( New Window )
RE: Got to wonder if he wants to be a package with Bieniemy  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/30/2021 8:27 pm : link
In comment 15392636 Sean said:
Quote:
.


I'm not out on JJ fully, but I'd be OK with that. And it'd be nice for Giants to have a black coach. Weren't we the last team to start a black QB with Geno? And Bieniemy is more than deserving of a try as a HC.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/30/2021 8:28 pm : link
In comment 15392634 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15392610 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 15392606 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15392602 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.









and I'm more New York than you will ever be, pal.


Cringe dude, cringe.
Thanks  
Toth029 : 9/30/2021 8:30 pm : link
For the info.
Appreciate the info, hopefully Mara realizes the next solution needs  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/30/2021 8:35 pm : link
to come from outside the building. I don’t care if there’s a college connection there as long as there is no Giant connection.
RE: Appreciate the info, hopefully Mara realizes the next solution needs  
bw in dc : 9/30/2021 8:39 pm : link
In comment 15392658 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
to come from outside the building. I don’t care if there’s a college connection there as long as there is no Giant connection.


Don't worry. If there is one, we'll find it... ;)
Jeff Wilpon is still out there  
Cyrus the Great : 9/30/2021 8:39 pm : link
just saying...
Just as long as Ernie Accorsi isn't part of the...  
GFAN52 : 9/30/2021 8:42 pm : link
search committee.
RE: Appreciate the info, hopefully Mara realizes the next solution needs  
jeff57 : 9/30/2021 8:43 pm : link
In comment 15392658 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
to come from outside the building. I don’t care if there’s a college connection there as long as there is no Giant connection.


Exactly
Deeper  
Professor Falken : 9/30/2021 8:44 pm : link
BC connections. Poles' father was a defensive lineman for BC from 1979-82.
Poles was an OT from south of Rochester  
cosmicj : 9/30/2021 8:45 pm : link
A big guy, 290 LBs in college. Will understand OL play.

Linking to story in local paper.
Former Canandaigua star Ryan Poles hopes to win Super Bowl on Kansas City Chiefs staff - ( New Window )
Poles being recruited by  
cosmicj : 9/30/2021 8:46 pm : link
UGa
Visit - ( New Window )
RE: Of course, Mara will wait until the Wednesday after  
bw in dc : 9/30/2021 8:47 pm : link
In comment 15392615 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
The season to fire Gettleman and by that time, all their top choices will be hired and he’ll be selling Abrams to what’s left of the fanbase.


Well, right now the safe bets are Abrams or O'Brien.

And we all know how much Mara likes safe.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It’s laughable to say the Bears is a more attractive job  
Producer : 9/30/2021 8:48 pm : link
In comment 15392647 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15392634 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15392610 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 15392606 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15392602 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


That teams key pieces are all old, the OL situation is worse than us, and they are missing a premium pick.









and I'm more New York than you will ever be, pal.



Cringe dude, cringe.


See what I mean?
And Facebook page about Poles  
cosmicj : 9/30/2021 8:50 pm : link
Returning to his high school, looks like this summer. Note the posts from two of his teachers.
Facebook - ( New Window )
He has a nice background  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/30/2021 8:51 pm : link
I have no issue if a younger Mara knows him and spoke well of him.

I really want to see Judge getting this team some wins being a better game day coach.

They brought in Judges connection from Detroit. This may be a counter and in a subtle way sending the message we need more production on the field an outside guy is monitoring.
RE: I like someone connected to the Chiefs  
jvm52106 : 9/30/2021 8:53 pm : link
In comment 15392596 Producer said:
Quote:
I like that very much. Don't know more than that about this guy.

The Bears is more attractive, though.


Ha ha, no it isn't.. But your constant bashing of Jones knows no bounds..
Holy shit, I just realized I played high school football against him  
Ben in Tampa : 9/30/2021 8:55 pm : link
Dude was MONSTER among his peers.

Wow, thats cool.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/30/2021 8:55 pm : link
I can't imagine Mara is so tone deaf he promotes from within.
It certainly  
Pete in MD : 9/30/2021 9:03 pm : link
sounds like he is first in the running, but can he take the team North or further South? Hopefully he won't dance around the situation and strip the current scouting department.
i'm not a bienemey guy  
GiantsFan84 : 9/30/2021 9:05 pm : link
i just don't know how much of that success is reid and mahomes.

i am very intrigued by lombardi. worked under payton in new orleans and now with staley in LA. the chargers offense seems to be doing very well under him.

and added bonus he has family ties to the giants as lombardi is the grandson of vince.
He’s 36 year old  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/30/2021 9:13 pm : link
It would be super weird having the Giants GM be younger than I am.
wow  
Producer : 9/30/2021 9:13 pm : link
Lawrence is playing a lot better this week. Learning fast?
We all know deep down  
Mattman : 9/30/2021 9:19 pm : link
That it will be Abrams
As long as he doesn't know how to open excel  
AdamBrag : 9/30/2021 9:20 pm : link
he's good with me!
Here’s all you need to know about Abrams..  
Sean : 9/30/2021 9:24 pm : link
How many other teams have requested to interview him to be their GM?
I hope  
crick n NC : 9/30/2021 9:25 pm : link
Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.
Dave…..  
thrunthrublue : 9/30/2021 9:28 pm : link
There is no “I” in team, and…no U in ‘22!!!
RE: Love these scraps thx  
Ike#88 : 9/30/2021 9:32 pm : link
In comment 15392605 big canoe jeff said:
Quote:
Even Mara know he can’t bring Gettleman back fans will burn down stadium and john will be hung like his dad

watching Bengals Jags and plays that actually gain yards due to play design. My wife has laughed she could do a better job than Gettleman. Mara really screwed the pooch on that hire. And then we got Garrett as a mentor. FMH. And the fans pay the price rooting for a dumpster fire.
RE: I hope  
NoGainDayne : 9/30/2021 9:33 pm : link
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.


See I think you've reached a little too far into your "I'm neutral" stance here. You aren't. This is very pro the idiocy that is taking place here. Sorry.

Why would that be entertaining to you? Years and years of garbage football and they decide to promote from within and it's sad that people would have a problem with it?

I think it is quite sad that you or anyone wouldn't have a problem with it. Especially in reveling in the fact that your fellow fans are fed up with the low quality product.
RE: i'm not a bienemey guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/30/2021 9:39 pm : link
In comment 15392693 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
i just don't know how much of that success is reid and mahomes.

i am very intrigued by lombardi. worked under payton in new orleans and now with staley in LA. the chargers offense seems to be doing very well under him.

and added bonus he has family ties to the giants as lombardi is the grandson of vince.


It's Reid and Mahomes. You're simply hoping Bienemy has learned how to run a team competently.
RE: I hope  
jeff57 : 9/30/2021 9:42 pm : link
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.


What’s sad is that you hope Abrams is hired
I'm taking a guess that Crick really couldn't care less  
steve in ky : 9/30/2021 9:54 pm : link
whether or not Abrams was hired, but instead was trying to make a larger point.
The Giants suck  
Big Rick in FL : 9/30/2021 10:16 pm : link
The Bears are not more attractive. They have very little young talent on their team. An aging defense. A terrible OL. No 1st round pick.
RE: The Giants suck  
Producer : 9/30/2021 10:29 pm : link
In comment 15392750 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
The Bears are not more attractive. They have very little young talent on their team. An aging defense. A terrible OL. No 1st round pick.


It all depends on how they assess Fields.
RE: I hope  
santacruzom : 9/30/2021 11:56 pm : link
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.


And if numerous recent examples are any indication, they'd all be validated.
RE: In Chicago you can’t pick a new QB, in New York you might be able to  
GoDeep13 : 10/1/2021 12:13 am : link
In comment 15392609 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
And I would expect Eric Bieniemy to come along for the ride when he picks his new coach
Thats what I was thinking. If Poles is in then it’s almost a sure bet (IMO) Bienemy will be right behind him. Maybe even Dave Toub (another special teams guy but one more respected than even Judge.)
RE: I hope  
christian : 10/1/2021 12:42 am : link
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.


Maybe I’m reading this wrong. Seems like your saying annoying fans would be a reason you’d like a guy to be hired.
RE: RE: I hope  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 12:57 am : link
In comment 15392903 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.



Maybe I’m reading this wrong. Seems like your saying annoying fans would be a reason you’d like a guy to be hired.


How would the majority of the forum react if Abrahms succeeds Gettleman?
Abrams  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 12:57 am : link
.
RE: RE: I hope  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 12:59 am : link
In comment 15392721 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.



See I think you've reached a little too far into your "I'm neutral" stance here. You aren't. This is very pro the idiocy that is taking place here. Sorry.

Why would that be entertaining to you? Years and years of garbage football and they decide to promote from within and it's sad that people would have a problem with it?

I think it is quite sad that you or anyone wouldn't have a problem with it. Especially in reveling in the fact that your fellow fans are fed up with the low quality product.


For someone who loves data, you seem to make up your own data for each event before results come in. Abrams' success or failure would be an unknown until proven otherwise. Yet, I am going to bet the majority of the forum would be acting as if he failed before even getting a chance.
RE: RE: I hope  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 1:01 am : link
In comment 15392721 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.



See I think you've reached a little too far into your "I'm neutral" stance here. You aren't. This is very pro the idiocy that is taking place here. Sorry.

Why would that be entertaining to you? Years and years of garbage football and they decide to promote from within and it's sad that people would have a problem with it?

I think it is quite sad that you or anyone wouldn't have a problem with it. Especially in reveling in the fact that your fellow fans are fed up with the low quality product.


No one is perfectly neutral, but I do make an attempt. The problem is, just because I do not agree with your takes you probably see me as far from neutral since you certainly consider yourself right without any self doubt.
RE: RE: I hope  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 1:01 am : link
In comment 15392858 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.



And if numerous recent examples are any indication, they'd all be validated.


But, unknown until otherwise, which is the point.
RE: I'm taking a guess that Crick really couldn't care less  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 1:06 am : link
In comment 15392736 steve in ky said:
Quote:
whether or not Abrams was hired, but instead was trying to make a larger point.


Thanks Steve. I honestly do not care. The reason I don't care is that I don't know enough about any of the possible replacements like I knew nothing about Gettleman. I do not see the point to have an opinion on something I know little about.

Abrams may be a bad choice, he may be just ok, and he may be a good choice. To me, all of those possibilities exist without anyone one of them being more likely than the other except that it is difficult to find good GM's, not because he was hired from inside the ORG.
RE: RE: RE: I hope  
christian : 10/1/2021 1:29 am : link
In comment 15392909 crick n NC said:
Quote:
How would the majority of the forum react if Abrahms succeeds Gettleman?


I don’t think there would be a majority reaction. My guess is if the Giants conducted a rigorous search, many fans would be disappointed, many would point to Abrams intellect and communication skills as a positive, and many wouldn’t take a strong position.

I’m still confused why annoying some of the fans would be something you’d hope would be an outcome.
RE: RE: I'm taking a guess that Crick really couldn't care less  
Go Terps : 10/1/2021 2:33 am : link
In comment 15392914 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15392736 steve in ky said:


Quote:


whether or not Abrams was hired, but instead was trying to make a larger point.



Thanks Steve. I honestly do not care. The reason I don't care is that I don't know enough about any of the possible replacements like I knew nothing about Gettleman. I do not see the point to have an opinion on something I know little about.

Abrams may be a bad choice, he may be just ok, and he may be a good choice. To me, all of those possibilities exist without anyone one of them being more likely than the other except that it is difficult to find good GM's, not because he was hired from inside the ORG.


We don't know anything about Poles. I've never heard his name until this thread.

We DO know quite a bit about Mara and his methods, however. We also know quite a bit about the results his methods produce.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I hope  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 6:10 am : link
In comment 15392918 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15392909 crick n NC said:


Quote:


How would the majority of the forum react if Abrahms succeeds Gettleman?



I don’t think there would be a majority reaction. My guess is if the Giants conducted a rigorous search, many fans would be disappointed, many would point to Abrams intellect and communication skills as a positive, and many wouldn’t take a strong position.

I’m still confused why annoying some of the fans would be something you’d hope would be an outcome.


No majority reaction? Alright, well we have read posts about Abrams differently.

Anyway, why would fans be annoyed by Abrams? That's the point. What reason is there to be annoyed?
RE: RE: RE: I'm taking a guess that Crick really couldn't care less  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 6:24 am : link
In comment 15392921 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15392914 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 15392736 steve in ky said:


Quote:


whether or not Abrams was hired, but instead was trying to make a larger point.



Thanks Steve. I honestly do not care. The reason I don't care is that I don't know enough about any of the possible replacements like I knew nothing about Gettleman. I do not see the point to have an opinion on something I know little about.

Abrams may be a bad choice, he may be just ok, and he may be a good choice. To me, all of those possibilities exist without anyone one of them being more likely than the other except that it is difficult to find good GM's, not because he was hired from inside the ORG.



We don't know anything about Poles. I've never heard his name until this thread.

We DO know quite a bit about Mara and his methods, however. We also know quite a bit about the results his methods produce.


If you think that Mara is the bad guy behind all of this then it will not matter who is hired. If Mara uses his GMs as puppets like some on this thread think (I'm guessing you're in that crowd) then you all certainly have a point that things probably won't change unless Mara would change. I don't believe he is the meddling owner (I've been wrong plenty of times, and certainly could be wrong about this).

The Giants got behind in talent years ago and never recovered, while that was happening Coughlin lost his effectiveness as did Manning; the Giants then, being behind on talent and coaching confined to miss on coaches and players and here we are.

The Giants' had another down time after super bowl 25. Their talent got old, and they lost their coaching, which lead to some bad years with some decent years spread in. The Giants got back to being relevant again when they found a good coach (Coughlin), and a good quarterback (Manning). They also were more efficient with their FA signings and draft picks (even though they had less picks because of the Manning deal).

I don't know a great deal about many things, one thing I am confident about is that it's very difficult to get a good coach and a championship caliber quarterback (even with the rule changes). Those two can make up for less in other areas. It the Giants miss on Judge and Jones, then hopefully they land their coach\qb combo next go around, with at least a solid gm.

Getting behind sucks. And had happened to all teams at some point.
Typos  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 6:26 am : link
Confined = continued

had happened = has happened
Why not just make me GM then?  
Debaser : 10/1/2021 7:14 am : link
"Let's see how it goes..."
My issue with Abrams..  
Sean : 10/1/2021 7:17 am : link
The Giants have two crucial decisions upcoming:

1. 5th year option on Daniel Jones and potentially second contract.
2. Second contract for Saquon Barkley.

Are we sure Abrams wouldn’t already have internal bias regarding these decisions?
If Mara really cares about the Giants winning again  
Rick in Dallas : 10/1/2021 8:04 am : link
He needs to look outside the organization for his next GM without any influence from Acorsi.
I would also hope the Giants interview Will McClay for the next GM position.
Giants connection to SNee  
JB_in_DC : 10/1/2021 8:20 am : link
Poles overlapped with Snee on the OL at BC.

Link - ( New Window )
Abrams looks to play the part of a logical candidate  
chick310 : 10/1/2021 8:22 am : link
although that shouldn't convert itself into being the logical choice. He may only have looked decent in the few times we have heard him speak because of the comparative of a lack of polished, confident communicator sitting next to him.

Only guessing, but I don't see Abrams bringing a new vision or distinctive approach to a Front Office that desperately needs one as he has been in the building now since 1999. Also not aware of his player evaluation experience other than what he has learned from the Giants. And not certain that can be construed as a strength.

Wow I had no idea Ryan Pole was in a front office  
bhill410 : 10/1/2021 8:23 am : link
Several data points here - he redshirted Snee’s last year so I would think Snee (who is still close with org) would have some insights, Mark Herlich (someone still close to org) played with him so the same goes, and Chris Maras daughter was friendly with him in college if I recall. None of these are caveats to his ability to do the job but can at least speak to his character which is obviously something important for the next hire. Also he is a young guy, it would certainly be nice to get someone on the way up for a change.
RE: If Mara really cares about the Giants winning again  
jeff57 : 10/1/2021 8:26 am : link
In comment 15392958 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
He needs to look outside the organization for his next GM without any influence from Acorsi.
I would also hope the Giants interview Will McClay for the next GM position.


He's effectively Dallas's GM now. And Jerry would probably not be wild about him taking over a division rival.
Becoming a GM would be a promotion for McClay  
Rick in Dallas : 10/1/2021 8:41 am : link
Who is now VP of player personnel for Cowboys.
Jerry Jones as long as he is alive is GM for the Cowboys.
RE: Why not just make me GM then?  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 8:50 am : link
In comment 15392941 Debaser said:
Quote:
"Let's see how it goes..."


As fans, there really is not a choice but to "see how it goes", which is probably the wise choice on any decision that is made. The Giants could hire a candidate that is known as the best GM ever in pro sports, but that does not mean that "wait and see" should cease to be used. Each opportunity provides a different chance of a result.

The issue is: If I hitch my wagon to, say a GM that I like, lets say the Giants hire him, well, I want to be right, so when this GM makes mistakes, I may decide to say, "Lets wait and see" before we criticize (nothing wrong with that choice), however, when this GM makes what seems to be a good or successful transaction, I may be tempted to say, "I told you he was a good gm", when in reality that move should have also been treated with a wait and see approach.

There were fans here that decided Gettleman was a failure the minute his press conference was over. Which, I am sure some of these would say "I told ya", while ignoring the limited input they used to make this decision which again is just guessing, like the rest of us. The talk of Abrams being the GM also seems to have a tone of failure before he would even be finished being introduced.

I have nothing against predictions, guessing, opinions, thoughts, etc. I do not see the value in declaring something with certainty that still is yet to play out. I think maybe if one guesses right very early they get more credit for their vision, which probably is not vision, but a swing in the dark.

As far as guesses go, which is more difficult of these two? Predicting success or failure in the NFL?
RE: RE: RE: I hope  
BrettNYG10 : 10/1/2021 8:56 am : link
In comment 15392909 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15392903 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.



Maybe I’m reading this wrong. Seems like your saying annoying fans would be a reason you’d like a guy to be hired.



How would the majority of the forum react if Abrahms succeeds Gettleman?


I'd be pissed. First, I do not want a Giant lifer - I'd prefer someone with experience across a couple of organizations. Second, I think the organization's scouting has been broken for some time. I want someone with the skillset to fix that.

The hire should show some acknowledgement that the organization's massively flawed.
RE: RE: RE: I hope  
NoGainDayne : 10/1/2021 9:08 am : link
In comment 15392911 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
Quote:

For someone who loves data, you seem to make up your own data for each event before results come in. Abrams' success or failure would be an unknown until proven otherwise. Yet, I am going to bet the majority of the forum would be acting as if he failed before even getting a chance.


I do love data. And it actually takes a lack of understanding of what really good work with data analysis is to not know that expanding / creating data sets is maybe the most important skill. My career was really catapulted when I figured out my company was doing loan modifications all wrong. They gave 3 modifications to someone with debt to income ratios in a certain range as the only criteria. I figured out by actually talking to borrowers that state foreclosure laws were much more relevant and despite being told it couldn’t be done by the head of servicing read every state law and created a set of rules to understand where files were and how long they should be there to forecast performance based on behavior. You can say anything lacks proof because few things are proven until they happen but that doesn’t make you a smart person for pointing that out. Some relevant data on Abrams:

1) The Giants are the only team to interview him for a GM position

2) They talk about him as adept with the cap yet we are no stranger to large amounts of dead money and more importantly lots of teams bank extra dollars using LTBE’s and NLTBE’s there are actually ways to set up the math so you either achieve on the macro or bank more dollars. The Giants not only have had very poor performance they haven’t had particularly good cap situations either. Regardless there is little to no data on the converse of him being particularly good at the skill he’s been touted for so you’d think it would be quite fair to question him being elevated.

3) We are now in the second GM who worked under Accorsi for the Giants and the returns on those GMs have been diminishing. Small samples shouldn’t be the gospel but completely tossing them aside because you don’t have proof of something isn’t good data analysis either. You have to include any pattern in a sound analysis. If you crack an egg and it’s bad and you throw it out. And then check another one and it’s fine. You shouldn’t just start cracking eggs and throwing them all in together. No, you’d check one at a time because that’s smart.

Now where you went wrong here is that you said you’d be entertained by people having problems with Abrams because we “wouldn’t know” when we absolutely have plenty of data to suggest he is more likely to be bad than someone where we have more evidence they are: a) Sought after outside of this building b) Data that supports their successes c) Better examples of their training yielding success

No one is neutral. But also, not a lot of people go around touting their own neutrality because of that fact. Yet you love to. What you actually enjoy is poking people and I generally meet people where they are and today you get my ire not because we disagree on occasion because you are the jerk who says they’d enjoy watching your fellow fans squirm because their leaders seem to maintain crappy hiring practices.
Abrams might have the tools to make a very good GM  
UberAlias : 10/1/2021 9:23 am : link
for all we know. But the points that this organization requires fresh new outside thinking is correct. They obviously didn't see Abrams as a rock star before when they passed over him for DG. What has changed? It won't be Abrams. They will bring in someone from the outside. This Chiefs guy doesn't seem like a bad candidate.
Matt Ryan to be our QB in 2022!  
Anakim : 10/1/2021 9:23 am : link
.
One legitimate concern about Abrams may be simply  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2021 9:25 am : link
That his experience is in contracts and capology, not scouting.

It doesn't mean he can't be good. But it means something.
My guess is DG steps down after the season,  
Section331 : 10/1/2021 9:28 am : link
which could happen even if they turn this season around. Don't know much about this guy, but KC has done a really good job of filling in injured pieces.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I hope  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 9:29 am : link
In comment 15392991 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15392911 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
Quote:

For someone who loves data, you seem to make up your own data for each event before results come in. Abrams' success or failure would be an unknown until proven otherwise. Yet, I am going to bet the majority of the forum would be acting as if he failed before even getting a chance.



I do love data. And it actually takes a lack of understanding of what really good work with data analysis is to not know that expanding / creating data sets is maybe the most important skill. My career was really catapulted when I figured out my company was doing loan modifications all wrong. They gave 3 modifications to someone with debt to income ratios in a certain range as the only criteria. I figured out by actually talking to borrowers that state foreclosure laws were much more relevant and despite being told it couldn’t be done by the head of servicing read every state law and created a set of rules to understand where files were and how long they should be there to forecast performance based on behavior. You can say anything lacks proof because few things are proven until they happen but that doesn’t make you a smart person for pointing that out. Some relevant data on Abrams:

1) The Giants are the only team to interview him for a GM position

2) They talk about him as adept with the cap yet we are no stranger to large amounts of dead money and more importantly lots of teams bank extra dollars using LTBE’s and NLTBE’s there are actually ways to set up the math so you either achieve on the macro or bank more dollars. The Giants not only have had very poor performance they haven’t had particularly good cap situations either. Regardless there is little to no data on the converse of him being particularly good at the skill he’s been touted for so you’d think it would be quite fair to question him being elevated.

3) We are now in the second GM who worked under Accorsi for the Giants and the returns on those GMs have been diminishing. Small samples shouldn’t be the gospel but completely tossing them aside because you don’t have proof of something isn’t good data analysis either. You have to include any pattern in a sound analysis. If you crack an egg and it’s bad and you throw it out. And then check another one and it’s fine. You shouldn’t just start cracking eggs and throwing them all in together. No, you’d check one at a time because that’s smart.

Now where you went wrong here is that you said you’d be entertained by people having problems with Abrams because we “wouldn’t know” when we absolutely have plenty of data to suggest he is more likely to be bad than someone where we have more evidence they are: a) Sought after outside of this building b) Data that supports their successes c) Better examples of their training yielding success

No one is neutral. But also, not a lot of people go around touting their own neutrality because of that fact. Yet you love to. What you actually enjoy is poking people and I generally meet people where they are and today you get my ire not because we disagree on occasion because you are the jerk who says they’d enjoy watching your fellow fans squirm because their leaders seem to maintain crappy hiring practices.


That is fine. I do not deny that I am a jerk at times. We can go our separate ways.
It's pretty safe to say  
Harvest Blend : 10/1/2021 9:29 am : link
that Gettleman is toast. Only question is whether Judge goes with him.
I don't care who is hired  
AcesUp : 10/1/2021 9:30 am : link
As long as Mara is not involved in the decision. I have no idea who the quality GM candidates but knowing nothing is probably better than the dogma logic driving the Giants the past decade. Hire a true outside firm, not like before where you cut Accorsi a pension as an excuse to get together to celebrate the old times, a TRUE outside firm with real credentials and let them drive the decision.
RE: One legitimate concern about Abrams may be simply  
BrettNYG10 : 10/1/2021 9:31 am : link
In comment 15393019 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That his experience is in contracts and capology, not scouting.

It doesn't mean he can't be good. But it means something.


If Abrams is a rockstar, keep him as AGM. He's not getting hired elsewhere.
RE: One legitimate concern about Abrams may be simply  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 9:31 am : link
In comment 15393019 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That his experience is in contracts and capology, not scouting.

It doesn't mean he can't be good. But it means something.


A good observation for sure.
Where are the teams banging down the door to interview Abrams?  
Sean : 10/1/2021 9:37 am : link
I think he did interview with Detroit, but Accorsi was consulting that search.
This was another asshat info. tidbit  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/1/2021 9:39 am : link
when I mentioned Judge having a lot of say. Interesting a day later we have another asshat with a potential "outside" GM candidate. Yet it now appears there is a strong Giant/Mara connections. As I mentioned, the Giants may like Judge and believe in him long term but want him focusing more on getting results on the field.

In comment 15391647 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
The two key people on the field are your HC and QB and both have more proving at this point.

I’ll be focusing a lot on Judge. He can still turn it around but not many HC’s show long term success when they don’t get a team performance improvement year 2. His influence is all over a lot of the decisions made in the draft and FA imv.




I respect your opinion, but I dont think Judge has had as much influence as you say. I have reliable sources that indicate DG and Mara’s minions have too much say. These people want Judge to have MORE control, and despite his poor in game decisions they believe in him.
RE: RE: One legitimate concern about Abrams may be simply  
chick310 : 10/1/2021 9:45 am : link
In comment 15393030 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 15393019 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


That his experience is in contracts and capology, not scouting.

It doesn't mean he can't be good. But it means something.



If Abrams is a rockstar, keep him as AGM. He's not getting hired elsewhere.


This seems more of a logical place of where Abrams may fit.

Find a GM outside the organization that is much more ingrained on the player eval/scouting side of things and shares a good bit of the vision of what Judge would like to do with the team. Would want the new GM to be a very analytical, data-intensive professional though as this mindset has to find its way into every corner & crevice in the building.

Let Judge and the new GM design the plan and find the players. Let Abrams figure out how to construct the contracts and keep it all working under the cap. If Judge and the new GM don't see value in Abrams doing that then move him out.
RE: One legitimate concern about Abrams may be simply  
BlueVinnie : 10/1/2021 9:57 am : link
In comment 15393019 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That his experience is in contracts and capology, not scouting.

It doesn't mean he can't be good. But it means something.

I am in no way advocating for Abrams. I definitely prefer the new GM to not have any ties to the Giants organization.

However, if a GM candidate is *very* strong when it comes to contracts and cap management, I don't really care if he has little or no scouting experience. In fact it could be a strength if, and this is a crucial if, he puts aside his emotions about players and simply weighs all the input from his scouting and coaching staffs and then makes the best decision based on that data.

Currently, we are saddled with a scout masquerading as a GM. This has resulted in pretty weak drafts and more misses than hits in free agency. We don't need another GM who has no idea how to build a winning football team but likes to talk about gold jacket guys, hog mollies and falling in full bloom love.
RE: Wow I had no idea Ryan Pole was in a front office  
shyster : 10/1/2021 9:58 am : link
In comment 15392966 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Several data points here - he redshirted Snee’s last year so I would think Snee (who is still close with org) would have some insights, Mark Herlich (someone still close to org) played with him so the same goes, and Chris Maras daughter was friendly with him in college if I recall. None of these are caveats to his ability to do the job but can at least speak to his character which is obviously something important for the next hire. Also he is a young guy, it would certainly be nice to get someone on the way up for a change.


A young guy who is sufficiently in demand that he has the independent stature to tell the Maras to get out of the way could work out fine.

A young guy whose likelihood of being hired appears mostly to follow from his personal connections to the Maras comes across as same old, same old.

Welp, if Ryan Poles comes to the Giants  
M.S. : 10/1/2021 10:05 am : link

He has got his work cut out for him.

Multi-year re-build.

And that assumes he hits it on his first re-build.
RE: Welp, if Ryan Poles comes to the Giants  
crick n NC : 10/1/2021 10:10 am : link
In comment 15393083 M.S. said:
Quote:

He has got his work cut out for him.

Multi-year re-build.

And that assumes he hits it on his first re-build.


Yeah, this franchise is so behind, that any miss has a larger magnitude. They are going to have to have a high hit rate and have some good fortune. Of course the problem is not just roster talent, but they still do not know if they have a coach yet or not.
crick makes a good point though..  
Sean : 10/1/2021 10:12 am : link
For all the talk, this is still mostly a QB/HC league. We haven’t had superb QB play since probably 2015.

If this team has Herbert, they could be 3-0.
GM or coaching?  
mittenedman : 10/1/2021 10:14 am : link
Starting to get annoyed with the GM stuff.

We all agree Garrett's offense is giving them almost no chance to win. We all agree they have enough talent to compete defensively but Graham is coaching soft (perhaps with a mandate from Judge?). People are chiming in all over the league killing the Giants for it.

For me, the buck stops there. This is a talented roster that could be performing much better if put in a position to win. I would've loved to see Jones running Brian Daboll's offense, lots of "quick hitters" and plenty of running plays for the QB. The play design is evident, and it works. Are we talking about how good Josh Allen is right now if Garrett and Judge are his coaches? This team has plenty of talent not to be a laughingstock. That was the mantra this offseason: take the personnel questions reasonably off the table so you can get a fair evaluation of Jones and Judge. I think they've done that.

They signed a #1 WR. They drafted a gadget player in the 1st round. You can question the logic, but they were supplying another weapon to the offense. They signed a grinder RB in Booker, and drafted another in Brightwell. They've made trades to ensure veteran OLs are in place to at least provide serviceable play (and they have).

This has been a MASSIVE drop of the ball by the coaching staff with the current collection of players. And they are hearing about it from guys around the league.
They still need to fix the OL  
JonC : 10/1/2021 10:20 am : link
It wouldn't surprise me if there's a DG/Mara faction with too much input on draft and FA personnel decisions. It's reflected by a number of players in prominent positions on this roster whom are not performing so great in the NFL.

I share the concern if DG is moved out, they just elevate Abrams or bring in someone else they're comfortable with, but also an executive the rest of the league hasn't shown much interest in.

It's also apparent the coaching in 2021 has not been good. They're getting their lunches eaten by opponents, and the discipline level has dropped. This is a relatively young group of men, coaches and players, all trying to learn how to win in the NFL, how to finish games, etc. They need to learn how to win, and then how to put forth that effort consistently. We're seeing a ton of growing pains in 2021.
Don't go overboard with how talented this roster is because  
chick310 : 10/1/2021 10:22 am : link
it has plenty of holes and upgrades still needed. I would agree the Defense has more and is mostly underachieving but continued lack of talent on the Edge & OLB shows up every week. Last year they were able to get some momentum without it but that doesn't mean it still wasn't an issue.

Talent on offense is still very underwhelming, at almost every position.

Judge has a poor team to work with on the field and a poor team upstairs in the Front Office looking to him to overcome it. And the truth is that he is learning to be a Head Coach.

Judge may not be the answer but this season has to hit the complete dumpster on the field over 17 games AND in the lockerroom for him to go.
RE: GM or coaching?  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/1/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15393099 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Starting to get annoyed with the GM stuff.

They signed a #1 WR. They drafted a gadget player in the 1st round. You can question the logic, but they were supplying another weapon to the offense. They signed a grinder RB in Booker, and drafted another in Brightwell. They've made trades to ensure veteran OLs are in place to at least provide serviceable play (and they have).

This has been a MASSIVE drop of the ball by the coaching staff with the current collection of players. And they are hearing about it from guys around the league.


It’s only Giants fans that seem to have a massive hard on for DG right now and he still gets killed for taking a RB at 2, but that’s a completely different convo. Around the league the coaches are getting eviscerated. Has DG done a good job? Fuck no, but the roster has enough talent to be a middling team this year. You can’t have playoff aspirations like that when you are literally throwing games away in division and against your weaker opponents. Garrett has shown zero ability to fucking adjust and I disagree with KT being a “gadget” player. Maybe 20 years ago he was, but his type is now a fixture in NFL offenses, he’s just really good at what he does. So what do we do with him? Run a fuckton of timing routes moving back to the QB?
RE: Gettleman will definitely be let go  
FranknWeezer : 10/1/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15392597 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Thanks for sharing Capt Don.


More likely "retire" or "step down," but I agree.
Yep, there are holes on defense  
JonC : 10/1/2021 10:28 am : link
the interior DL play needs help, the entire LB ranks especially OLB needs more talent. I personally am not sold on Adoree Jackson's long term fit here, and Peppers could be on his way out if he's expecting market dollars. On offense, they've still got work to do at WR (I know it hurts) and TE, and RB is a position they really need to self-scout better (and get SB to play smarter) in order to make the SB second contract decision.

NYG has to become much more honest with their self-scouting. Being loyal to their choices when they're really underperforming consistently is prolonging their willingness and decisions to keep trying to improve talent at key positions, and it's killing them. You cannot keep making draft picks out of desperate need, especially top 6 picks.
So the Bears are going to Ryan Poles  
FranknWeezer : 10/1/2021 10:29 am : link
from Ryan Pace?
Fans need to also become much more honest with  
chick310 : 10/1/2021 10:36 am : link
the talent deficiencies still on this team.

Saying the roster is good enough to be a middling team? They basically are somewhere between an irrelevant and middling team after three games. Losing two at the wire and playing okay in spurts but never really well enough in any. This will continue but they will win a few at the wire as well and end up with an irrelevant/middling record.
RE: Fans need to also become much more honest with  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/1/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15393122 chick310 said:
Quote:
the talent deficiencies still on this team.

Saying the roster is good enough to be a middling team? They basically are somewhere between an irrelevant and middling team after three games. Losing two at the wire and playing okay in spurts but never really well enough in any. This will continue but they will win a few at the wire as well and end up with an irrelevant/middling record.


Yeah the talent is good enough to be an 8 or 9 win team. It's probably going to finish with 6 wins now because we threw away two games. The roster certainly isn't good on the top end in certain places (OL and Edge which is importnat), but the coaches are now responsible for two losses and the Broncos game was a blowout because of them. Why sign Adoree if you don't trust him to cover, it was better last week against ATL, but zero excuse not to make Teddy and Taylor beat you over the top. I hate this term, but it's scared to lose shit. Judge wants to play a field position game with a bend don't break defense, and play offense with player personnel that is much better with a go big or go home mindset. Everything about the way they coach is fucked. The dysfunction runs from the FO to the coaching staff right now.
Mittenedam  
cosmicj : 10/1/2021 10:47 am : link
I like most of your posting but this last one - about the team being talented enough - sorry you are deluding yourself.

The team cornerstone players, with the exception of Anthony Thomas, have glaring weaknesses to their game.
The team on the field  
JonC : 10/1/2021 10:47 am : link
feels like a mirror of how it's been built, quite frankly. 2021 has more talent than 2020, but no one is performing particularly well on the field. Coaching has taken a big step backwards, and it could indicate the league's figured out what the Giants are doing schematically. Their margin for error is so slim even against bad teams, and to me that's a key indicator they're still a considerable deficit.
.  
cosmicj : 10/1/2021 10:50 am : link
Jones still has problems reading the field, which is why we don’t score

Barkley has mediocre vision and negatively impacts the offense

Williams, our best player, is coasting

Bradberry may have a fork sticking in his back

Peppers has gone from being a very good to borderline starter

Galloway and Shepard are in and out of the lineup

This team doesn’t have enough high performing players.
The talent is mediocre  
AcesUp : 10/1/2021 10:56 am : link
However you want to define that is up to you but the coaching isn't doing it any favors either. With good coaching this team is good enough to compete for a playoff spot. That's not high praise for the roster though. We're in Year 4 of Gettleman, well past the "he has to clean up after Reese" excuse and saying they should still be competitive in December is a pretty low bar given the advantages the Giants have had these past 4 years in roster building. Tons of high draft picks and money has been spent. This should be one of the strongest rosters in the league at this point given what we've had to work with. We're 0-3 though and the season is likely over with a loss this week, we're failing on both fronts.
RE: .  
chick310 : 10/1/2021 10:57 am : link
In comment 15393137 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Jones still has problems reading the field, which is why we don’t score

Barkley has mediocre vision and negatively impacts the offense

Williams, our best player, is coasting

Bradberry may have a fork sticking in his back

Peppers has gone from being a very good to borderline starter

Galloway and Shepard are in and out of the lineup

This team doesn’t have enough high performing players.


Bradberry isn't done. And Peppers was never consistently good, don't bother even suggesting very good.

The rest seems in line.
I don’t think Giants fans have questions about the talent deficiencies  
Rick in Dallas : 10/1/2021 10:58 am : link
On this current roster.
No play making edge rusher that opposing teams need to game plan for and an offensive line that after 4 years of the DG regime still has significant issues.
The DL has been negatively impacted by the departures of Tomlinson and Hill. A LB group excluding the injured Martinez which is average at best.
The secondary which is underperforming on all levels.
A 3rd year QB in his prove it year and a generational RB with more dance moves than John Travolta.
A first round TE that needs to move on from this team in the worst way
I’ll stop here.
What a great job Giants front office
---  
Peppers : 10/1/2021 11:00 am : link
Lol, there isn't any list of GM candidates at this moment. We are 3 games into the season. Their focus is on what's in front of them as it should. This, if anything, is fan-driven speculation.
RE: ---  
Sean : 10/1/2021 11:03 am : link
In comment 15393149 Peppers said:
Quote:
Lol, there isn't any list of GM candidates at this moment. We are 3 games into the season. Their focus is on what's in front of them as it should. This, if anything, is fan-driven speculation.

If the Giants have done zero homework on potential GM candidates then things are even worse than I thought.
RE: RE: ---  
rsjem1979 : 10/1/2021 11:12 am : link
In comment 15393152 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15393149 Peppers said:


Quote:


Lol, there isn't any list of GM candidates at this moment. We are 3 games into the season. Their focus is on what's in front of them as it should. This, if anything, is fan-driven speculation.


If the Giants have done zero homework on potential GM candidates then things are even worse than I thought.


There's no end to the list of potential future GM candidates in front offices around the league, but given his history I'm going to assume Mara is going to wait for an official list to arrive in his mailbox weeks after other franchises have begun their interview process.
RE: The team on the field  
Sammo85 : 10/1/2021 11:16 am : link
In comment 15393134 JonC said:
Quote:
feels like a mirror of how it's been built, quite frankly. 2021 has more talent than 2020, but no one is performing particularly well on the field. Coaching has taken a big step backwards, and it could indicate the league's figured out what the Giants are doing schematically. Their margin for error is so slim even against bad teams, and to me that's a key indicator they're still a considerable deficit.


It's a combination of roster schematics and gameplan/play call schematics. Almost a comorbidity.

I think the coaches sometimes think themselves into a box based on perceived deficiencies on depth or holes (other teams do it as well, but it's been persistent now across coaching staffs here under the Gettleman era).

Graham has done it repeatedly (got away with it a bit last year, but has been burned in two games so far this year).

Garrett I think is a better playcaller than people give him credit for, but his offense is a bit stale and predictable.
we’re all saying the same thing.  
mittenedman : 10/1/2021 11:20 am : link
The talent is mediocre.

My point is simple: we all know Garrett’s (Judge’s) scheme is killing the offense. We all know Graham’s scheme is killing the D. People who know football, with no affiliation to the Giants, are screaming from the rafters how bad the schemes are.

By no means should these players struggle as much as they do.
RE: RE: ---  
Peppers : 10/1/2021 11:21 am : link
In comment 15393152 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15393149 Peppers said:


Quote:


Lol, there isn't any list of GM candidates at this moment. We are 3 games into the season. Their focus is on what's in front of them as it should. This, if anything, is fan-driven speculation.


If the Giants have done zero homework on potential GM candidates then things are even worse than I thought.


You fellas gotta relax, okay? You're being emotional and a little dramatic. There is plenty of time for them to dig into potential GM candidates. And if that time comes I'm sure they'll do their "homework".. However, that time is not now.

Believe me, I understand where you're coming from, but if they're mailing in the season already that's more cause for concern. That defeatist attitude should be nowhere near the building. That would be horrible leadership. Their focus should be on what's currently in front of them and that is what it will take to right the ship.
RE: I don’t think Giants fans have questions about the talent deficiencies  
chick310 : 10/1/2021 11:29 am : link
In comment 15393147 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
On this current roster.
No play making edge rusher that opposing teams need to game plan for and an offensive line that after 4 years of the DG regime still has significant issues.
The DL has been negatively impacted by the departures of Tomlinson and Hill. A LB group excluding the injured Martinez which is average at best.
The secondary which is underperforming on all levels.
A 3rd year QB in his prove it year and a generational RB with more dance moves than John Travolta.
A first round TE that needs to move on from this team in the worst way
I’ll stop here.
What a great job Giants front office


Rick, fans absolutely overrate the talent on the Giants. This offseason was a perfect example with the heavy free agent activity and spending.

It only took a few injuries this summer and poor play in preseason by the OL to wake everybody up that this may just be more of the same.
RE: RE: RE: ---  
rsjem1979 : 10/1/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15393176 Peppers said:
Quote:



You fellas gotta relax, okay? You're being emotional and a little dramatic. There is plenty of time for them to dig into potential GM candidates. And if that time comes I'm sure they'll do their "homework".. However, that time is not now.



Their current GM is 70 years old and has a terrible record during his tenure.

The time is absolutely now. Frankly it should have already started.
I agree with Mitt  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/1/2021 11:35 am : link
There is enough talent for the team to be sitting at 2-1 and at worst 1-2 and in both cases they can still be a playoff team.

5-1 in the division and it will be hard to miss the playoffs.
4-2 more challenging.

I am setting expectations for that but recognize that WFT loss may really haunt them and that game was on coaching and had very little to do with talent imv.

Dave is mostly likely gone and I have no issue with that. He will get blamed everything including the current hamstring issue. He has put assembled enough talent that this team should perform better that it has.
RE: The Giants are the Knicks of the NFL  
clatterbuck : 10/1/2021 11:46 am : link
In comment 15392625 Producer said:
Quote:
when they stop acting that way I might agree with you.


The Knicks haven't won a championship since 1973. And you're going to have to explain how they operate in the same way.
RE: Matt Ryan to be our QB in 2022!  
djm : 10/1/2021 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15393014 Anakim said:
Quote:
.


I want Rodgers and Devante Adams along with him. If Rodgers even farts in the NYG direction this offseason I am all over him like stink on shit. And he can bring his soon to be FA buddy with him. You want to win? Do that. Judge can even stay and we'd win 11 games next year. New GM can live happily ever after for a few years if he makes that move. And money can be moved or created.

I think this could be AR's last year in GB. If it is, why not here.
RE: RE: The Giants are the Knicks of the NFL  
djm : 10/1/2021 12:09 pm : link
In comment 15393222 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15392625 Producer said:


Quote:


when they stop acting that way I might agree with you.



The Knicks haven't won a championship since 1973. And you're going to have to explain how they operate in the same way.


Plus the Knicks are on the upswing and as well run as any NBA franchise at this very moment. Apples and Oranges. Giants are the Mets with 2 extra titles. MEts get to the same # of big games, the Giants just happened to win most of theirs (4-5) and 5-5 in NFC title games.
RE: I don't care who is hired  
clatterbuck : 10/1/2021 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15393029 AcesUp said:
Quote:
As long as Mara is not involved in the decision. I have no idea who the quality GM candidates but knowing nothing is probably better than the dogma logic driving the Giants the past decade. Hire a true outside firm, not like before where you cut Accorsi a pension as an excuse to get together to celebrate the old times, a TRUE outside firm with real credentials and let them drive the decision.


An expectation that team ownership will not be involved in this kind of a decision is just not realistic, even if an outside firm or consultant is brought on to guide the process. Btw, is there a search firm that specializes in NFL GMs?
RE: RE: I don't care who is hired  
AcesUp : 10/1/2021 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15393323 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15393029 AcesUp said:


Quote:


As long as Mara is not involved in the decision. I have no idea who the quality GM candidates but knowing nothing is probably better than the dogma logic driving the Giants the past decade. Hire a true outside firm, not like before where you cut Accorsi a pension as an excuse to get together to celebrate the old times, a TRUE outside firm with real credentials and let them drive the decision.



An expectation that team ownership will not be involved in this kind of a decision is just not realistic, even if an outside firm or consultant is brought on to guide the process. Btw, is there a search firm that specializes in NFL GMs?


Yes, they're used with regularity. We hired a boutique firm fronted by Ernie Accorsi for our last search. Search firms and management consultancy are a thing in every industry.

Obviously, there is one decision that Mara would have to make - the decision on who to outsource the real decisions to, I'd just like that decision to be made without cronyism involved. Kind of a tough ask for the Giants.
"If Mara Has Any Interest in Winning..."  
clatterbuck : 10/1/2021 1:14 pm : link
I think there are professional sports franchise owners whose "interest in winning" can be legitimately questioned. I don't believe John Mara is in this category. In fact, I don't think there is an owner who cares more about winning than Mara. The organization for which he's responsible has been terrible for the past 10 years. For this, he deserves the criticism and, ultimately, the blame. But it is not a function of disinterest.
RE:  
Enzo : 10/1/2021 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15393346 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
I think there are professional sports franchise owners whose "interest in winning" can be legitimately questioned. I don't believe John Mara is in this category. In fact, I don't think there is an owner who cares more about winning than Mara. The organization for which he's responsible has been terrible for the past 10 years. For this, he deserves the criticism and, ultimately, the blame. But it is not a function of disinterest.

seriously - how do you know there's no owner that cares more than him? Is it the yearly press conferences where he tells anyone how pissed off he is about all the losing?
to cosmicj  
mittenedman : 10/1/2021 1:43 pm : link
Agree, particularly the part about underperforming known commodities.

To me, that points to bad coaching again.

Of the many challenges to being a good coach in the NFL is motivating the players. Including the ones that just got paid.
Enzo - He cares a lot  
AcesUp : 10/1/2021 1:49 pm : link
His actions speak to this. He spends. Both in free agency and with one of the largest coaching staffs in the league. I don't think there's any question that he cares and wants to win. I also think he's a good and loyal guy overall.

The problem is that he's indecisive, pathologically needs to surround himself with people the carry the same principles and values to himself and his ideas on what it takes to win aren't built on anything more than cliche'd platitudes about things that stir up nostalgia from the glory days. He's too busy looking backwards and not forwards in a dramatically changing landscape.

Basically, he's an awful CEO.
RE: Enzo - He cares a lot  
Enzo : 10/1/2021 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15393388 AcesUp said:
Quote:
His actions speak to this. He spends. Both in free agency and with one of the largest coaching staffs in the league. I don't think there's any question that he cares and wants to win. I also think he's a good and loyal guy overall.

The problem is that he's indecisive, pathologically needs to surround himself with people the carry the same principles and values to himself and his ideas on what it takes to win aren't built on anything more than cliche'd platitudes about things that stir up nostalgia from the glory days. He's too busy looking backwards and not forwards in a dramatically changing landscape.

Basically, he's an awful CEO.

I feel like some of what you describe in the second paragraph must have occurred to Mara over the lat few years - whether it was told to him or he thought it up on his own. If he really cared, he'd do the hard work and take a long look in the mirror. As far as we can tell, that hasn't happened yet.
RE: RE:  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/1/2021 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15393364 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 15393346 clatterbuck said:


Quote:


I think there are professional sports franchise owners whose "interest in winning" can be legitimately questioned. I don't believe John Mara is in this category. In fact, I don't think there is an owner who cares more about winning than Mara. The organization for which he's responsible has been terrible for the past 10 years. For this, he deserves the criticism and, ultimately, the blame. But it is not a function of disinterest.


seriously - how do you know there's no owner that cares more than him? Is it the yearly press conferences where he tells anyone how pissed off he is about all the losing?


No, it is all the trash cans he kicks in the owner's box. Many beats covering the team and former players have commented how the Mara's live and die with this team. The results have sucked but I do not think they are laughing as the money keeps rolling in.
not disputing  
Enzo : 10/1/2021 2:35 pm : link
how much they love the team. But who would you say put more effort into finding a coach in 2020 - Tepper or Mara? Would you say the GM search after 2017 was as thorough as it could have been?
Back to the Corner