Was told by someone very close to the situation (not on the Giants side) that if DG is fired or retires, that Ryan Poles who is the Executive Director of Player Personnel for the Chiefs is on their short list. The Bears are also interested.
Obviously, nothing may come to fruition and if it does, it wont be for a while but I heard from someone who is close to the situation.
Wow, thats cool.
i am very intrigued by lombardi. worked under payton in new orleans and now with staley in LA. the chargers offense seems to be doing very well under him.
and added bonus he has family ties to the giants as lombardi is the grandson of vince.
watching Bengals Jags and plays that actually gain yards due to play design. My wife has laughed she could do a better job than Gettleman. Mara really screwed the pooch on that hire. And then we got Garrett as a mentor. FMH. And the fans pay the price rooting for a dumpster fire.
See I think you've reached a little too far into your "I'm neutral" stance here. You aren't. This is very pro the idiocy that is taking place here. Sorry.
Why would that be entertaining to you? Years and years of garbage football and they decide to promote from within and it's sad that people would have a problem with it?
I think it is quite sad that you or anyone wouldn't have a problem with it. Especially in reveling in the fact that your fellow fans are fed up with the low quality product.
i am very intrigued by lombardi. worked under payton in new orleans and now with staley in LA. the chargers offense seems to be doing very well under him.
and added bonus he has family ties to the giants as lombardi is the grandson of vince.
It's Reid and Mahomes. You're simply hoping Bienemy has learned how to run a team competently.
What’s sad is that you hope Abrams is hired
It all depends on how they assess Fields.
And if numerous recent examples are any indication, they'd all be validated.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong. Seems like your saying annoying fans would be a reason you’d like a guy to be hired.
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Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong. Seems like your saying annoying fans would be a reason you’d like a guy to be hired.
How would the majority of the forum react if Abrahms succeeds Gettleman?
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Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.
See I think you've reached a little too far into your "I'm neutral" stance here. You aren't. This is very pro the idiocy that is taking place here. Sorry.
Why would that be entertaining to you? Years and years of garbage football and they decide to promote from within and it's sad that people would have a problem with it?
I think it is quite sad that you or anyone wouldn't have a problem with it. Especially in reveling in the fact that your fellow fans are fed up with the low quality product.
For someone who loves data, you seem to make up your own data for each event before results come in. Abrams' success or failure would be an unknown until proven otherwise. Yet, I am going to bet the majority of the forum would be acting as if he failed before even getting a chance.
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Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.
See I think you've reached a little too far into your "I'm neutral" stance here. You aren't. This is very pro the idiocy that is taking place here. Sorry.
Why would that be entertaining to you? Years and years of garbage football and they decide to promote from within and it's sad that people would have a problem with it?
I think it is quite sad that you or anyone wouldn't have a problem with it. Especially in reveling in the fact that your fellow fans are fed up with the low quality product.
No one is perfectly neutral, but I do make an attempt. The problem is, just because I do not agree with your takes you probably see me as far from neutral since you certainly consider yourself right without any self doubt.
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Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.
And if numerous recent examples are any indication, they'd all be validated.
But, unknown until otherwise, which is the point.
Thanks Steve. I honestly do not care. The reason I don't care is that I don't know enough about any of the possible replacements like I knew nothing about Gettleman. I do not see the point to have an opinion on something I know little about.
Abrams may be a bad choice, he may be just ok, and he may be a good choice. To me, all of those possibilities exist without anyone one of them being more likely than the other except that it is difficult to find good GM's, not because he was hired from inside the ORG.
I don’t think there would be a majority reaction. My guess is if the Giants conducted a rigorous search, many fans would be disappointed, many would point to Abrams intellect and communication skills as a positive, and many wouldn’t take a strong position.
I’m still confused why annoying some of the fans would be something you’d hope would be an outcome.
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whether or not Abrams was hired, but instead was trying to make a larger point.
Thanks Steve. I honestly do not care. The reason I don't care is that I don't know enough about any of the possible replacements like I knew nothing about Gettleman. I do not see the point to have an opinion on something I know little about.
Abrams may be a bad choice, he may be just ok, and he may be a good choice. To me, all of those possibilities exist without anyone one of them being more likely than the other except that it is difficult to find good GM's, not because he was hired from inside the ORG.
We don't know anything about Poles. I've never heard his name until this thread.
We DO know quite a bit about Mara and his methods, however. We also know quite a bit about the results his methods produce.
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How would the majority of the forum react if Abrahms succeeds Gettleman?
I don’t think there would be a majority reaction. My guess is if the Giants conducted a rigorous search, many fans would be disappointed, many would point to Abrams intellect and communication skills as a positive, and many wouldn’t take a strong position.
I’m still confused why annoying some of the fans would be something you’d hope would be an outcome.
No majority reaction? Alright, well we have read posts about Abrams differently.
Anyway, why would fans be annoyed by Abrams? That's the point. What reason is there to be annoyed?
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In comment 15392736 steve in ky said:
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whether or not Abrams was hired, but instead was trying to make a larger point.
Thanks Steve. I honestly do not care. The reason I don't care is that I don't know enough about any of the possible replacements like I knew nothing about Gettleman. I do not see the point to have an opinion on something I know little about.
Abrams may be a bad choice, he may be just ok, and he may be a good choice. To me, all of those possibilities exist without anyone one of them being more likely than the other except that it is difficult to find good GM's, not because he was hired from inside the ORG.
We don't know anything about Poles. I've never heard his name until this thread.
We DO know quite a bit about Mara and his methods, however. We also know quite a bit about the results his methods produce.
If you think that Mara is the bad guy behind all of this then it will not matter who is hired. If Mara uses his GMs as puppets like some on this thread think (I'm guessing you're in that crowd) then you all certainly have a point that things probably won't change unless Mara would change. I don't believe he is the meddling owner (I've been wrong plenty of times, and certainly could be wrong about this).
The Giants got behind in talent years ago and never recovered, while that was happening Coughlin lost his effectiveness as did Manning; the Giants then, being behind on talent and coaching confined to miss on coaches and players and here we are.
The Giants' had another down time after super bowl 25. Their talent got old, and they lost their coaching, which lead to some bad years with some decent years spread in. The Giants got back to being relevant again when they found a good coach (Coughlin), and a good quarterback (Manning). They also were more efficient with their FA signings and draft picks (even though they had less picks because of the Manning deal).
I don't know a great deal about many things, one thing I am confident about is that it's very difficult to get a good coach and a championship caliber quarterback (even with the rule changes). Those two can make up for less in other areas. It the Giants miss on Judge and Jones, then hopefully they land their coach\qb combo next go around, with at least a solid gm.
Getting behind sucks. And had happened to all teams at some point.
had happened = has happened
1. 5th year option on Daniel Jones and potentially second contract.
2. Second contract for Saquon Barkley.
Are we sure Abrams wouldn’t already have internal bias regarding these decisions?
I would also hope the Giants interview Will McClay for the next GM position.
Link - ( New Window )
Only guessing, but I don't see Abrams bringing a new vision or distinctive approach to a Front Office that desperately needs one as he has been in the building now since 1999. Also not aware of his player evaluation experience other than what he has learned from the Giants. And not certain that can be construed as a strength.
I would also hope the Giants interview Will McClay for the next GM position.
He's effectively Dallas's GM now. And Jerry would probably not be wild about him taking over a division rival.
Jerry Jones as long as he is alive is GM for the Cowboys.
As fans, there really is not a choice but to "see how it goes", which is probably the wise choice on any decision that is made. The Giants could hire a candidate that is known as the best GM ever in pro sports, but that does not mean that "wait and see" should cease to be used. Each opportunity provides a different chance of a result.
The issue is: If I hitch my wagon to, say a GM that I like, lets say the Giants hire him, well, I want to be right, so when this GM makes mistakes, I may decide to say, "Lets wait and see" before we criticize (nothing wrong with that choice), however, when this GM makes what seems to be a good or successful transaction, I may be tempted to say, "I told you he was a good gm", when in reality that move should have also been treated with a wait and see approach.
There were fans here that decided Gettleman was a failure the minute his press conference was over. Which, I am sure some of these would say "I told ya", while ignoring the limited input they used to make this decision which again is just guessing, like the rest of us. The talk of Abrams being the GM also seems to have a tone of failure before he would even be finished being introduced.
I have nothing against predictions, guessing, opinions, thoughts, etc. I do not see the value in declaring something with certainty that still is yet to play out. I think maybe if one guesses right very early they get more credit for their vision, which probably is not vision, but a swing in the dark.
As far as guesses go, which is more difficult of these two? Predicting success or failure in the NFL?
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In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
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Mara hires Abrams. The sheer amount of fans declaring disaster before he even finishes his first day would be entertaining, and quite sad.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong. Seems like your saying annoying fans would be a reason you’d like a guy to be hired.
How would the majority of the forum react if Abrahms succeeds Gettleman?
I'd be pissed. First, I do not want a Giant lifer - I'd prefer someone with experience across a couple of organizations. Second, I think the organization's scouting has been broken for some time. I want someone with the skillset to fix that.
The hire should show some acknowledgement that the organization's massively flawed.
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For someone who loves data, you seem to make up your own data for each event before results come in. Abrams' success or failure would be an unknown until proven otherwise. Yet, I am going to bet the majority of the forum would be acting as if he failed before even getting a chance.
I do love data. And it actually takes a lack of understanding of what really good work with data analysis is to not know that expanding / creating data sets is maybe the most important skill. My career was really catapulted when I figured out my company was doing loan modifications all wrong. They gave 3 modifications to someone with debt to income ratios in a certain range as the only criteria. I figured out by actually talking to borrowers that state foreclosure laws were much more relevant and despite being told it couldn’t be done by the head of servicing read every state law and created a set of rules to understand where files were and how long they should be there to forecast performance based on behavior. You can say anything lacks proof because few things are proven until they happen but that doesn’t make you a smart person for pointing that out. Some relevant data on Abrams:
1) The Giants are the only team to interview him for a GM position
2) They talk about him as adept with the cap yet we are no stranger to large amounts of dead money and more importantly lots of teams bank extra dollars using LTBE’s and NLTBE’s there are actually ways to set up the math so you either achieve on the macro or bank more dollars. The Giants not only have had very poor performance they haven’t had particularly good cap situations either. Regardless there is little to no data on the converse of him being particularly good at the skill he’s been touted for so you’d think it would be quite fair to question him being elevated.
3) We are now in the second GM who worked under Accorsi for the Giants and the returns on those GMs have been diminishing. Small samples shouldn’t be the gospel but completely tossing them aside because you don’t have proof of something isn’t good data analysis either. You have to include any pattern in a sound analysis. If you crack an egg and it’s bad and you throw it out. And then check another one and it’s fine. You shouldn’t just start cracking eggs and throwing them all in together. No, you’d check one at a time because that’s smart.
Now where you went wrong here is that you said you’d be entertained by people having problems with Abrams because we “wouldn’t know” when we absolutely have plenty of data to suggest he is more likely to be bad than someone where we have more evidence they are: a) Sought after outside of this building b) Data that supports their successes c) Better examples of their training yielding success
No one is neutral. But also, not a lot of people go around touting their own neutrality because of that fact. Yet you love to. What you actually enjoy is poking people and I generally meet people where they are and today you get my ire not because we disagree on occasion because you are the jerk who says they’d enjoy watching your fellow fans squirm because their leaders seem to maintain crappy hiring practices.
It doesn't mean he can't be good. But it means something.
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In comment 15392715 crick n NC said:
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For someone who loves data, you seem to make up your own data for each event before results come in. Abrams' success or failure would be an unknown until proven otherwise. Yet, I am going to bet the majority of the forum would be acting as if he failed before even getting a chance.
I do love data. And it actually takes a lack of understanding of what really good work with data analysis is to not know that expanding / creating data sets is maybe the most important skill. My career was really catapulted when I figured out my company was doing loan modifications all wrong. They gave 3 modifications to someone with debt to income ratios in a certain range as the only criteria. I figured out by actually talking to borrowers that state foreclosure laws were much more relevant and despite being told it couldn’t be done by the head of servicing read every state law and created a set of rules to understand where files were and how long they should be there to forecast performance based on behavior. You can say anything lacks proof because few things are proven until they happen but that doesn’t make you a smart person for pointing that out. Some relevant data on Abrams:
1) The Giants are the only team to interview him for a GM position
2) They talk about him as adept with the cap yet we are no stranger to large amounts of dead money and more importantly lots of teams bank extra dollars using LTBE’s and NLTBE’s there are actually ways to set up the math so you either achieve on the macro or bank more dollars. The Giants not only have had very poor performance they haven’t had particularly good cap situations either. Regardless there is little to no data on the converse of him being particularly good at the skill he’s been touted for so you’d think it would be quite fair to question him being elevated.
3) We are now in the second GM who worked under Accorsi for the Giants and the returns on those GMs have been diminishing. Small samples shouldn’t be the gospel but completely tossing them aside because you don’t have proof of something isn’t good data analysis either. You have to include any pattern in a sound analysis. If you crack an egg and it’s bad and you throw it out. And then check another one and it’s fine. You shouldn’t just start cracking eggs and throwing them all in together. No, you’d check one at a time because that’s smart.
Now where you went wrong here is that you said you’d be entertained by people having problems with Abrams because we “wouldn’t know” when we absolutely have plenty of data to suggest he is more likely to be bad than someone where we have more evidence they are: a) Sought after outside of this building b) Data that supports their successes c) Better examples of their training yielding success
No one is neutral. But also, not a lot of people go around touting their own neutrality because of that fact. Yet you love to. What you actually enjoy is poking people and I generally meet people where they are and today you get my ire not because we disagree on occasion because you are the jerk who says they’d enjoy watching your fellow fans squirm because their leaders seem to maintain crappy hiring practices.
That is fine. I do not deny that I am a jerk at times. We can go our separate ways.