Remember the Jones draft pick was made when everyone was psyched that Josh Allen (DE) had fallen to us? I was psyched for Allen at the time. I'm personally glad to have Jones, I really like him. But Allen was the clear alternative (I don't think Jones would have lasted to 17 where D. Lawrence pick was made IMO). Anyway - what's your take now?
Quote:
...with the 🎤 drop.
Not surprising.
Only several nights from you saying make threads about football discussion and not about petty disputes and remarks. Congrats on getting thru almost two days on your own commitment.
I have maintained that there is no argument to be had and I was right.
Please go fuck off.
In comment 15403173 chick310 said:
Quote:
As I mentioned and you say above, the most important thing isn't who else did or didn't want Jones. It's that he is a NYG and playing well right now.
Yes Eric, you were better off bowing out before you went down this path that you now find yourself without a proper exit strategy versus this whatever, "pro forma"?
Again, Denver didn't want Jones. That is what the facts show. And yet, it still shouldn't matter as Jones is playing at a high level right now and that is far more important, at least to me, than needing another team's draft opinion from 2019 shape my own of Jones and how he has actually played since then.
What's really bizarre and triggering is that Gettleman felt an impulse to draft Daniel Jones at #6 back in 2019 for whatever reason and this isn't satisfying enough. You need another GM's opinion of Jones back then to actually substantiate it. That's got to be really agonizing.
Quote:
In comment 15403516 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...with the 🎤 drop.
Not surprising.
Only several nights from you saying make threads about football discussion and not about petty disputes and remarks. Congrats on getting thru almost two days on your own commitment.
actually my comment is a direct response to the conversation at hand.
I have maintained that there is no argument to be had and I was right.
Please go fuck off.
"I'm right about the argument about whether there's an argument."
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Josh Rosen
Lamar Jackson
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Justin Herbert
Jordan Love
Where would you rank Jones?
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Josh Rosen
Lamar Jackson
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Justin Herbert
Jordan Love
Where would you rank Jones?
He is clearly ahead of Love, Haskins, and Rosen. I am still unsure where to put Darnold because Teddy Bridgewater was hot to start 2020 then struggled mightily as teams got more film on their offense. If going by the Jets only I would not have Darnold above Jones. That being said, Darnold was the QB I wanted most after Mayfield was selected in 2018. I thought he would need Mahomes treatment and that we could offer that with Eli. By the way you left off Tua. I have an incomplete on him because while Miami has won games he has started, the analytics don’t support the record.
Tua was picked 5th. Jeff Okudah was 3rd (after Burrow and Chase Young).
Not too worry, I GUARANTEE they’ll be back in FORCE if DJ throws some picks/has a down game. What a pleasure it’s been this week to not see their BS on every f*king thread.
Bingo!
Again, Denver didn't want Jones. That is what the facts show. And yet, it still shouldn't matter as Jones is playing at a high level right now and that is far more important, at least to me, than needing another team's draft opinion from 2019 shape my own of Jones and how he has actually played since then.
Honestly asking, is Peter King "the facts" here?
Quote:
A few of the usual folks starting to panic now that Jones is playing well. Who could have seen that coming
Not too worry, I GUARANTEE they’ll be back in FORCE if DJ throws some picks/has a down game. What a pleasure it’s been this week to not see their BS on every f*king thread.
My good man, don’t you also step away from posting during the time the outcomes aren’t in line with your predictions?
I’m interested in why you make this remark.
What/where is the panic you refer to?
Quote:
In comment 15403619 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
A few of the usual folks starting to panic now that Jones is playing well. Who could have seen that coming
Not too worry, I GUARANTEE they’ll be back in FORCE if DJ throws some picks/has a down game. What a pleasure it’s been this week to not see their BS on every f*king thread.
My good man, don’t you also step away from posting during the time the outcomes aren’t in line with your predictions?
so the whole "not rooting against the giants/i'll be as happy as anyone if it works out" routine that accompanies the dire predictions isn't totally above board?
You take three big critics of Jones; me, BW, and Terps.
We all have a very different views on Jones past, present, and future.
If Jones leads the Giants to the playoffs this year, I guarantee all three of us will be happy as clams.
[quote]
And it's crazy to compare Jones to Mariota?
/quote]
No.. it is crazy to compare QBs just on record when everyone knows this is a team game and we have been one of the worst TEAMS in the league for a decade.
What is crazier is having to explain that to you. You are either ignorant (Not likely) or a troll who knows exactly what he is saying.
Let's see what Stafford's "record" looks like over the next three years with the Rams vs his last three years with the Lions.
The funny thing in all this is that the support for Jones as a good quarterback is only based on his being the quarterback for the Giants. If he played on another team no one would be saying these things, because there'd be no case for it.
And if you're concerned about "the long view" with Jones, it's this: is he better than a likely replacement enough to justify paying him a second contract?
If they pay him a second contract I predict it'll go the way it did with Bortles in Jacksonville - we'll be looking at big cap hit when we cut or trade him a year or two into it.
The funny thing in all this is that the support for Jones as a good quarterback is only based on his being the quarterback for the Giants. If he played on another team no one would be saying these things, because there'd be no case for it.
And if you're concerned about "the long view" with Jones, it's this: is he better than a likely replacement enough to justify paying him a second contract?
If they pay him a second contract I predict it'll go the way it did with Bortles in Jacksonville - we'll be looking at big cap hit when we cut or trade him a year or two into it.
it sounds like even if they somehow make the playoffs this year you wouldn't be happy as a clam.
honest question, if that's your belief what are you rooting for? whatever outcome is the quickest remedy to move on from Jones?
ok but if Jones continues playing at a similar level to these first 4 games and they somehow did make the playoffs, which would actually track your Bortles prediction, would you want to move on?
Quote:
I don't think they will make the playoffs. And when they don't, I will want to move on from Jones as quarterback.
ok but if Jones continues playing at a similar level to these first 4 games and they somehow did make the playoffs, which would actually track your Bortles prediction, would you want to move on?
No. They turn it around and make the playoffs I have to be fair - he's the quarterback.
Quote:
Again, Denver didn't want Jones. That is what the facts show. And yet, it still shouldn't matter as Jones is playing at a high level right now and that is far more important, at least to me, than needing another team's draft opinion from 2019 shape my own of Jones and how he has actually played since then.
Honestly asking, is Peter King "the facts" here?
With regards to what Denver was doing.
Did the Gettleman quotes contradict any of it?
And the Giants aren’t making the playoffs. Be real.
Quote:
In comment 15403565 chick310 said:
Quote:
Again, Denver didn't want Jones. That is what the facts show. And yet, it still shouldn't matter as Jones is playing at a high level right now and that is far more important, at least to me, than needing another team's draft opinion from 2019 shape my own of Jones and how he has actually played since then.
Honestly asking, is Peter King "the facts" here?
With regards to what Denver was doing.
Did the Gettleman quotes contradict any of it?
they did not. i've posted as much as I'm willing to on where my certainty re: denver comes from and plenty of reports just as credible as King back it up. you can choose whichever version you want to believe but don't delude yourself into think any of it is fact - it's all speculation. even the info I claim to have that's quite literally from a horses mouth.
And the Giants aren’t making the playoffs. Be real.
I agree it's unlikely they make the playoffs (that's why GT placed the goalposts there) but if Jones keeps playing the way he is he won't be the reason they don't make it. He's played well enough to have a winning record. Slayton and Adoree Jackson not dropping easy balls changes the record but nothing about Jones' performance.
I'm more unsure of the team/coaching staff around him than him at this point. That's not to say I'd extend him now there's still 2 seasons (or more) left to make that decision - but as you said things are looking better now than they did in a month ago. Even if a playoff appearance didn't come with it this year I'd settle for that trend continuing.
But we shouldn't consider him credible.
I just love this place...
Quote:
Jones is worth a second contract. But that’s an improvement from August when the answer to the question was “hell no.”
And the Giants aren’t making the playoffs. Be real.
I agree it's unlikely they make the playoffs (that's why GT placed the goalposts there) but if Jones keeps playing the way he is he won't be the reason they don't make it. He's played well enough to have a winning record. Slayton and Adoree Jackson not dropping easy balls changes the record but nothing about Jones' performance.
I'm more unsure of the team/coaching staff around him than him at this point. That's not to say I'd extend him now there's still 2 seasons (or more) left to make that decision - but as you said things are looking better now than they did in a month ago. Even if a playoff appearance didn't come with it this year I'd settle for that trend continuing.
I placed the goalposts there before the season. It's a reasonable goal - year 3 of a rookie quarterback contract, lots of free agency spending...this was supposed to be the year we made the jump.
But we shouldn't consider him credible.
I just love this place...
Do you think they actually let reporters in the war room and let them report accurately? That isn’t how the NFL operates. Most would pass because they actually have credibility, King is an opportunist hack. “Sure I’ll write whatever you want as long as I get “credibility” of being in the war room to give my rube readers something to chew on.
Guy likes writing soliloquy’s on coffee, how the NFL is reaching out to the “young” audience with their halftime show, and collects legacy paychecks. Dude hasn’t written or reported anything worthwhile in 2 decades.
But we shouldn't consider him credible.
I just love this place...
As if Peter King’s popularity and column is somehow better if he reports Denver had Lock as their top QB if they took one. So he purposely lies and says it’s so
The dogging in on this is just nonsense at this point.
you're doing a great job highlighting why i presume many (others not me) who used to share good info no longer do. if you're looking for a certificate of authenticity on a message board youre in the wrong place.
But we shouldn't consider him credible.
I just love this place...
you can consider him as credible as every other mediate report that team x drafted the #1 player player on their board. The Redskins said Haskins was the #1 QB on their board too.
And yet if either team was sitting at #1 overall why do I think they wouldn't have taken either player? do you really believe the Broncos passed on their #1 overall QB at pick #20. They had all the top QBs in for predraft visits and were obviously in the market. Do you believe they didn't have a first round grade on any of them?
Quote:
with regards to any report from anybody? Something happens 3 years ago and you are willing to say what at this point doesn’t help your cause. In fact, why even bring it up and argue to this level.
you're doing a great job highlighting why i presume many (others not me) who used to share good info no longer do. if you're looking for a certificate of authenticity on a message board youre in the wrong place.
I still don’t know what pieces you did provide, if anything. Show what you are willing to and what actual published reports at least align with it.
That can’t be betraying any secrecies.
I placed the goalposts there before the season. It's a reasonable goal - year 3 of a rookie quarterback contract, lots of free agency spending...this was supposed to be the year we made the jump.
the same way I don't think it was an unfair expectation that they should be 2-2 or 3-1 right now (both ahead of time and in hindsight).
but context matters. Kyler imo made the jump last year and they went 8-8 with no playoffs. if the NYG were 4-0 right now because the defense pitched 4 shutouts that wouldn't validate Jones anymore than the opposite should invalidate whatever his performance.
Quote:
He was in the Denver War Room, saw the draft board and saw the key constituents in action running their process. And then reported what took place.
But we shouldn't consider him credible.
I just love this place...
you can consider him as credible as every other mediate report that team x drafted the #1 player player on their board. The Redskins said Haskins was the #1 QB on their board too.
And yet if either team was sitting at #1 overall why do I think they wouldn't have taken either player? do you really believe the Broncos passed on their #1 overall QB at pick #20. They had all the top QBs in for predraft visits and were obviously in the market. Do you believe they didn't have a first round grade on any of them?
Read the King article. Obviously you haven’t since he goes thru this.
To answer the OP, I think the right answer was to pick Allen and pick Herbert in 2020. Let's hope Jones continues his improvement.
We are so starved for good play at quarterback (and all over the field, really) that we don't remember what actual good play looks like.
When the Giants finish 5-12 I'm not (and I hope every other Giant fan won't be) in the mood for yet another offseason of excuses and platitudes about how the arrow is pointing up. And that includes at quarterback.
The process is over. So what exactly would Denver or any team be trying to hide? None of those players can be drafted again.
We are so starved for good play at quarterback (and all over the field, really) that we don't remember what actual good play looks like.
When the Giants finish 5-12 I'm not (and I hope every other Giant fan won't be) in the mood for yet another offseason of excuses and platitudes about how the arrow is pointing up. And that includes at quarterback.
Where do you rank Jones' performance this year? I'm curious on your answer when isolating the WAS/NO games as well. Top-third/average/bottom-third?
Quote:
But I also don't think Jones has been especially good these four games. I thought he was downright poor against Denver and Atlanta and he left a lot of points on the field in Washington as Kurt Warner described.
We are so starved for good play at quarterback (and all over the field, really) that we don't remember what actual good play looks like.
When the Giants finish 5-12 I'm not (and I hope every other Giant fan won't be) in the mood for yet another offseason of excuses and platitudes about how the arrow is pointing up. And that includes at quarterback.
Where do you rank Jones' performance this year? I'm curious on your answer when isolating the WAS/NO games as well. Top-third/average/bottom-third?
I don't know. Not top third, certainly. I'm inclined to say bottom third based on the terrible performances in both home games, the 1-3 record, and the low PPG.
But hey to borrow a line from the guys arguing for him... Let's see how the season goes. They go 10-7 and make the playoffs I'll have zero argument and I'll have been dead wrong.
Jones needs to lead a top third offense before I start moving him up.
I'd sure trust his take on the matter more than Gettleman's claims and justifications, that's for damn sure.
Quote:
is something we are all supposed to trust? Why is that? Do we only trust accounts from people that prove our stance?
I'd sure trust his take on the matter more than Gettleman's claims and justifications, that's for damn sure.
Same here, but insert any GM IMO. I don't really take anything they say as gospel.
It's kind of pathetic you need to validate jones by pretending another team would've picked him.