for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Good question to consider now...

Coopcomic : 10/7/2021 7:17 pm
Remember the Jones draft pick was made when everyone was psyched that Josh Allen (DE) had fallen to us? I was psyched for Allen at the time. I'm personally glad to have Jones, I really like him. But Allen was the clear alternative (I don't think Jones would have lasted to 17 where D. Lawrence pick was made IMO). Anyway - what's your take now?
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 | Show All |  Next>>
I’d wait  
Big Blue '56 : 10/7/2021 7:19 pm : link
until the next time he has a shitty game and he will, like all QBs. At that point, the mostly quiet will emerge like clockwork.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/7/2021 7:21 pm : link
I must admit I have no clue how Allen is performing this season. I know he had a monster rookie season & got injured last year.
Allen  
OBJRoyal : 10/7/2021 7:27 pm : link
Looked decent last week. Very active. No idea of his stats, but very active.

Definitely wanted Allen when he "dropped" to us
I really wanted Allen  
rasbutant : 10/7/2021 7:42 pm : link
But in hindsight I'm taking Jones.

The talking heads and draftnik's were saying Jones was a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. I thought Jones would have lasted until 17 and we'd get both guys. But the comments and info leaked suggest that wouldn't have been the case. So Allen and Jones was my hope at the time, but in hindsight knowing it was Allen and Lawrence or gulp Drew Lock, I'm taking Jones/Dexter easy.

Oh and that is my opinion before they even take the field, forgetting everything they have done in the NFL. Though it would be the same factor it in.
RE: I’d wait  
JCin332 : 10/7/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15402573 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
until the next time he has a shitty game and he will, like all QBs. At that point, the mostly quiet will emerge like clockwork.


Lol Doc so right!!!
They paid Eli $23M to start two relevant games  
Go Terps : 10/7/2021 7:52 pm : link
It was a terrible pick on a number of levels. Emblematic of the front office making the decisions.
RE: They paid Eli $23M to start two relevant games  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/7/2021 7:57 pm : link
In comment 15402609 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It was a terrible pick on a number of levels. Emblematic of the front office making the decisions.


I get Mara's attachment to Eli. I'm in the same boat. But I'm a fan, not the one signing the checks.
I think the right move..  
Sean : 10/7/2021 8:06 pm : link
was waiting on QB until 2020. Let Eli finish 2019 regardless and then make the call on Shurmur & Gettleman as a package deal after the season.

They very well could have Herbert now under that scenario.
 
ryanmkeane : 10/7/2021 8:21 pm : link
Terps - just to be clear - you’re going on record as saying Jones is a terrible draft pick correct?
RE: I think the right move..  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/7/2021 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15402620 Sean said:
Quote:
was waiting on QB until 2020. Let Eli finish 2019 regardless and then make the call on Shurmur & Gettleman as a package deal after the season.

They very well could have Herbert now under that scenario.


Herbert looks so damn good.
Dave wasn’t getting fired  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/7/2021 8:24 pm : link
I think they realized the last go for Eli wasn’t going to work. As I’ve said many times Eli was finishing his contract regardless. Not sure why some still try to get around that fact. Just listen to Mara after Eli’s benching. He got roasted by the media, fans, former great players. Everyone.
RE: They paid Eli $23M to start two relevant games  
18E : 10/7/2021 8:41 pm : link
In comment 15402609 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It was a terrible pick on a number of levels. Emblematic of the front office making the decisions.


What a shock that you chime in....
RE: …  
Go Terps : 10/7/2021 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15402636 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Terps - just to be clear - you’re going on record as saying Jones is a terrible draft pick correct?


It would take a big change in fortunes for it to end up being anything else.
RE: …  
Big Blue '56 : 10/7/2021 8:51 pm : link
In comment 15402636 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Terps - just to be clear - you’re going on record as saying Jones is a terrible draft pick correct?


Remember, after just 25/26 games and an injured wheel down the stretch
last year (which is so important to who DJ is as a QB), he proclaimed that DJ was “garbage.” Not, playing like garbage, simply garbage. Many of us were willing to see what this year brought before stating anything definitive. I always believed in DJ and felt he’d be a long term guy, but I know shit as it pertains to how this ultimately pkays out for DJ..
LOL  
ryanmkeane : 10/7/2021 9:02 pm : link
a “big change in fortunes” he just started his third season dude. He’s not a 5 year veteran.
 
ryanmkeane : 10/7/2021 9:02 pm : link
You called him a bad QB, a poor QB. You think he’s a bad QB. It’s fine - just wanted to confirm.
I do feel he isn't a particularly good NFL quarterback  
Go Terps : 10/7/2021 9:08 pm : link
But that's not really the question. The question was about the decision to pick him. That was a horrendous decision given the circumstances around the team at the time. It made zero sense once we paid Eli.

The times to draft a quarterback were 2018 or 2020. They reached for Jones, and unsurprisingly their record since they did that is 11-25. Horrible.
I'm still not a Jones believer  
Producer : 10/7/2021 9:09 pm : link

But Sunday vs the Saints was his best performance so far in his career. It was an exciting performance.

He did it with his arm more than his legs, which is huge for me.

He showed a lot of zip and authority on those midfield throws. I though he looked a lot sharper and more accurate in that range than I have seen him before.

The arm strength looks a little better on the midfield throws as well, he was throwing more ropes.

And placed the ball well to his playmakers, and he started force feeding the playmakers. which he must do.

I still do not see great anticipation. Maybe that will come. That would make this a very big leap.

And he had a lot of time. How does Jones handle pressure is very important. Because no matter how good your line is, you get pressure from the better teams and certainly in the playoffs.

Terps  
ryanmkeane : 10/7/2021 9:13 pm : link
nope. You’ve said he’s a terrible and bad QB. Now you’re at “not particularly good.” Catch up with you around week 10 to get your thoughts.
RE: I'm still not a Jones believer  
Big Blue '56 : 10/7/2021 9:14 pm : link
In comment 15402698 Producer said:
Quote:

But Sunday vs the Saints was his best performance so far in his career. It was an exciting performance.

He did it with his arm more than his legs, which is huge for me.

He showed a lot of zip and authority on those midfield throws. I though he looked a lot sharper and more accurate in that range than I have seen him before.

The arm strength looks a little better on the midfield throws as well, he was throwing more ropes.

And placed the ball well to his playmakers, and he started force feeding the playmakers. which he must do.

I still do not see great anticipation. Maybe that will come. That would make this a very big leap.

And he had a lot of time. How does Jones handle pressure is very important. Because no matter how good your line is, you get pressure from the better teams and certainly in the playoffs.


He’s finally got the tools around him and a functional OL..That is enormous for a QB..We saw what happened to Mahomes in the SB with a pathetic, makeshift OL..
And for the record  
ryanmkeane : 10/7/2021 9:16 pm : link
“How the team was constructed at the time” is just word salad for basically saying you hate Daniel Jones. Who the fuck cares how the team was constructed at that time. It was 2019.
What I don’t understand, even a little bit,  
Big Blue '56 : 10/7/2021 9:20 pm : link
is how anyone can say they would have rather waited to pick a QB in ‘20 as if Herbert was a lock to fall to them..Makes zero sense. You take what’s available when you can if you and your scouting have a strong conviction on a guy..
RE: RE: I'm still not a Jones believer  
Producer : 10/7/2021 9:21 pm : link
In comment 15402701 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15402698 Producer said:


Quote:



But Sunday vs the Saints was his best performance so far in his career. It was an exciting performance.

He did it with his arm more than his legs, which is huge for me.

He showed a lot of zip and authority on those midfield throws. I though he looked a lot sharper and more accurate in that range than I have seen him before.

The arm strength looks a little better on the midfield throws as well, he was throwing more ropes.

And placed the ball well to his playmakers, and he started force feeding the playmakers. which he must do.

I still do not see great anticipation. Maybe that will come. That would make this a very big leap.

And he had a lot of time. How does Jones handle pressure is very important. Because no matter how good your line is, you get pressure from the better teams and certainly in the playoffs.




He’s finally got the tools around him and a functional OL..That is enormous for a QB..We saw what happened to Mahomes in the SB with a pathetic, makeshift OL..


I don't think it's enough to say he has tools and more to work with so he will be great like Mahomes, or Wilson, or Stafford, or even as good as Cousins. He has to demonstrate so much more consistency than he has shown thus far. Plus anticipation and enduring pressure need to get better. We'll see.

RE: RE: RE: I'm still not a Jones believer  
Big Blue '56 : 10/7/2021 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15402704 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15402701 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 15402698 Producer said:


Quote:



But Sunday vs the Saints was his best performance so far in his career. It was an exciting performance.

He did it with his arm more than his legs, which is huge for me.

He showed a lot of zip and authority on those midfield throws. I though he looked a lot sharper and more accurate in that range than I have seen him before.

The arm strength looks a little better on the midfield throws as well, he was throwing more ropes.

And placed the ball well to his playmakers, and he started force feeding the playmakers. which he must do.

I still do not see great anticipation. Maybe that will come. That would make this a very big leap.

And he had a lot of time. How does Jones handle pressure is very important. Because no matter how good your line is, you get pressure from the better teams and certainly in the playoffs.




He’s finally got the tools around him and a functional OL..That is enormous for a QB..We saw what happened to Mahomes in the SB with a pathetic, makeshift OL..



I don't think it's enough to say he has tools and more to work with so he will be great like Mahomes, or Wilson, or Stafford, or even as good as Cousins. He has to demonstrate so much more consistency than he has shown thus far. Plus anticipation and enduring pressure need to get better. We'll see.


Agreed. I only brought up Mahomes in the context of even the great ones struggle without an OL and yes, surrounding talent to lean on
Or Stafford?  
Giants73 : 10/7/2021 9:52 pm : link
Are you watching the game tonight? If Jones had as brutal as a first half as Stafford he would be blasted on this board. Stanford missed three wide open Wrs, and had one of the most horrible looking picks. The guy is a career loser as well, what has he ever done to be considered elite?
RE: And for the record  
Go Terps : 10/7/2021 10:12 pm : link
In comment 15402702 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
“How the team was constructed at the time” is just word salad for basically saying you hate Daniel Jones. Who the fuck cares how the team was constructed at that time. It was 2019.


No. It's basically saying it was a stupid allocation of resources. I said it at the time when they picked him.

Why would I hate Jones? He seems like a good guy. He plays hard. He runs well. But I think he's a backup level quarterback. I think he's at or probably below the Mariota/Trubisky level. Those guys are backups.

I don't hate Jones. I hate watching shitty losing football.
RE: Or Stafford?  
Producer : 10/7/2021 10:15 pm : link
In comment 15402723 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Are you watching the game tonight? If Jones had as brutal as a first half as Stafford he would be blasted on this board. Stanford missed three wide open Wrs, and had one of the most horrible looking picks. The guy is a career loser as well, what has he ever done to be considered elite?


If you can't *see* what makes Stafford so special, I don't think anything I have to say will help you. He has phenomenal arm talent and very few can match him.
Good no answer  
Giants73 : 10/7/2021 10:19 pm : link
Since you can’t equate anything he does as special pretend like it is on every one else to figure it out for you. Just as you can not see what can make Jones special.
RE: Good no answer  
Go Terps : 10/7/2021 10:21 pm : link
In comment 15402738 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Since you can’t equate anything he does as special pretend like it is on every one else to figure it out for you. Just as you can not see what can make Jones special.


But he isn't special.
RE: Good no answer  
Producer : 10/7/2021 10:22 pm : link
In comment 15402738 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Since you can’t equate anything he does as special pretend like it is on every one else to figure it out for you. Just as you can not see what can make Jones special.


As Greg Cosell says, and he gushes over Stafford at every chance, Stafford has traits you can't teach and can't develop. Jones will never be that kind of thrower. Period. Jones has to produce other ways.
Traits such as being  
Giants73 : 10/7/2021 10:24 pm : link
A career loser
RE: LOL  
Toth029 : 10/7/2021 10:35 pm : link
In comment 15402684 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
a “big change in fortunes” he just started his third season dude. He’s not a 5 year veteran.


Don't waste your time with these guys. He literally said he's below Mariota, a guy who hasn't done a single worthwhile thkng in two years and was a bust in Tennessee.
.  
Go Terps : 10/7/2021 10:51 pm : link
Mariota has a 29-32 record as a starter and has won a playoff game. Jones has a 9-21 record and only one of those wins (over the 2-1 Saints) was against a team over .500.

And it's crazy to compare Jones to Mariota?

This place makes you think there's an alternate universe sometimes.
RE: .  
Mike in NY : 10/7/2021 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15402777 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Mariota has a 29-32 record as a starter and has won a playoff game. Jones has a 9-21 record and only one of those wins (over the 2-1 Saints) was against a team over .500.

And it's crazy to compare Jones to Mariota?

This place makes you think there's an alternate universe sometimes.


By that metric Matthew Stafford isn’t even on Marcus Mariota’s level. Stafford was 74-90-1 in Detroit and never won a playoff game
So losing records only matter  
Giants73 : 10/7/2021 10:56 pm : link
When it’s Jone’s win-loss record. Stafford’s win-loss is excused.
….  
ryanmkeane : 10/7/2021 11:04 pm : link
Haha. Oh ok so now it’s records. Got it. You said you’d give up Daniel Jones, Barkley, and two first round picks for Joe Burrow. What’s his record as a starter?

Jesus dude. Are you really this dense? Quarterbacks early in their career rarely have good records - if you’re taken in the top 10 your team typically suck at first.
Terps  
ryanmkeane : 10/7/2021 11:08 pm : link
Andrew Thomas could make the pro bowl this season and you’d still call it a bad pick.

Because you have this vision of the Giants moving on from all of their first round picks the last 3 years, because you’ve already come to the conclusion that they all suck (which you are the only person on planet earth who thinks this to be true) - and the Giants aren’t going to do what you want - you come on here and still say things like Jones sucks, which all the recent evidence is showing that he’s coming around and you simply hate that fact.
so what if this TERPS dipshit  
mpinmaine : 10/7/2021 11:50 pm : link
is a dipshit?
Why do so many care about his dipshit opinion?

GO NYG!

Root for all the draft picks and maybe we beat the cowboys not just once but twice this year,,,same for Philly
RE: RE: I think the right move..  
Johnny5 : 10/7/2021 11:54 pm : link
In comment 15402637 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15402620 Sean said:


Quote:


was waiting on QB until 2020. Let Eli finish 2019 regardless and then make the call on Shurmur & Gettleman as a package deal after the season.

They very well could have Herbert now under that scenario.



Herbert looks so damn good.

Go watch the SD v Dallas game. That will temper your enthusiasm.
Like others have said in the past  
Beer Man : 10/8/2021 7:01 am : link
if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.
Ask the question week 17  
ZogZerg : 10/8/2021 7:19 am : link
I need to see more consistency week in and week out.
RE: .  
joe48 : 10/8/2021 7:19 am : link
In comment 15402777 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Mariota has a 29-32 record as a starter and has won a playoff game. Jones has a 9-21 record and only one of those wins (over the 2-1 Saints) was against a team over .500.

And it's crazy to compare Jones to Mariota?

This place makes you think there's an alternate universe sometimes.

Dak 5-13 against teams over .500 , so your argument is weak. DJ never has had the support but you refuse to accept that because you don’t like the pick.
RE: Or Stafford?  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 8:21 am : link
In comment 15402723 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Are you watching the game tonight? If Jones had as brutal as a first half as Stafford he would be blasted on this board. Stanford missed three wide open Wrs, and had one of the most horrible looking picks. The guy is a career loser as well, what has he ever done to be considered elite?


You do realize Jefferson dropped a sure TD right before Stafford threw the bad pick?

And so what if Stafford had a bad half? He more than righted the ship in the second half and ended up with a solid 64 QBR and an excellent 9.9 YPA.

Are you going to tell me, btw, that you would take Jones over Stafford as your QB?
Paying Eli Manning for that 2019 season and also drafting Daniel Jones  
NYGgolfer : 10/8/2021 8:22 am : link
was inefficient in terms of money, without question. But even if Dave Gettleman and Front Office had conviction in the pick, having an experienced veteran QB on the roster and start the season wasn't some kind of unusual decision.

Not all QBs, even first round ones, have the perfect demeanor to just take over the reigns immediately for a franchise and hold up under the immense pressure and expectations in that scenario. New York no less.

Jones was able to work on his development that summer, play a lot that preseason, and gain some confidence. And it played out early that Manning wasn't leading that team anywhere, so at that point that had seen enough to turn to Jones. And now at least he had some QB play under his belt and some of the pressure/expectations had been lowered. At least that season.
RE: Like others have said in the past  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 8:28 am : link
In comment 15402853 Beer Man said:
Quote:
if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.


I don't think that accurately reflects what happened.

Jones was a panic pick. Gettleman admitted as much. He thought that at least two teams were going to take Jones before our next first round pick at #17. So he forced the pick on Jones in order to fill a need. And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.

NONE.
Josh Allen had a good rookie year  
UConn4523 : 10/8/2021 8:32 am : link
and terrible Sophomore year. Jags D sucks this year and he's a part of that so how much impact is he having? In fact, since Allen was drafted their defense has been bad to awful each season.

I'd rather take a shot at the QB than the DE and if year 3 continues for Jones than its likely going to be a better pick than taking Allen.
bw in dc  
UConn4523 : 10/8/2021 8:37 am : link
what actual evidence would there be other than another GM saying "Gettelman took our guy"? And when does that ever happen?

Such a dumb argument. There was plenty of chatter of multiple teams being interested in Jones. Of course you want definitive proof of something that historically never happens, I wonder why...

Something you are defining as a "panic" is actually pretty normal. Player X isn't predicted to last until Pick X so you take your guy when available. Giants get knocked for that, other teams don't. Its weird.
Dave Gettleman went into the Draft planning to take Jones  
NYGgolfer : 10/8/2021 8:40 am : link
at #17. He fell victim to rumors and pressures that Jones might go earlier than that so he picked him at #6, and even said himself it was a difficult decision to pass on the defensive player, ER Josh Allen. So much that he tried to trade up from #17 to still get Allen but he was already gone.

Gettleman always sounded very defensive post-draft in explaining that he knew Jones was going to be picked by other teams, but they may have been just rumors.
RE: RE: Like others have said in the past  
Beer Man : 10/8/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15402902 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15402853 Beer Man said:


Quote:


if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.



I don't think that accurately reflects what happened.

Jones was a panic pick. Gettleman admitted as much. He thought that at least two teams were going to take Jones before our next first round pick at #17. So he forced the pick on Jones in order to fill a need. And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.

NONE.
We could all debate the statement that it was a panic pick; I believe DJ became DG's target once Herbert choose to return to Oregon for his Senior season. And where you can argue that there there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by another team, there was also NO EVIDENCE to the contrary (unless you have asshat info on the draft boards of the other teams, if so please share). Either way it should not have been a factor, because you go for your guy if he is there, regardless of who you believe other teams may be selecting between your picks.
RE: Dave Gettleman went into the Draft planning to take Jones  
section125 : 10/8/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15402911 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
at #17. He fell victim to rumors and pressures that Jones might go earlier than that so he picked him at #6, and even said himself it was a difficult decision to pass on the defensive player, ER Josh Allen. So much that he tried to trade up from #17 to still get Allen but he was already gone.

Gettleman always sounded very defensive post-draft in explaining that he knew Jones was going to be picked by other teams, but they may have been just rumors.


It was not a rumor - Broncos and Dolphins would have taken Jones.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner