Remember the Jones draft pick was made when everyone was psyched that Josh Allen (DE) had fallen to us? I was psyched for Allen at the time. I'm personally glad to have Jones, I really like him. But Allen was the clear alternative (I don't think Jones would have lasted to 17 where D. Lawrence pick was made IMO). Anyway - what's your take now?
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at #17. He fell victim to rumors and pressures that Jones might go earlier than that so he picked him at #6, and even said himself it was a difficult decision to pass on the defensive player, ER Josh Allen. So much that he tried to trade up from #17 to still get Allen but he was already gone.
Gettleman always sounded very defensive post-draft in explaining that he knew Jones was going to be picked by other teams, but they may have been just rumors.
It was not a rumor - Broncos and Dolphins would have taken Jones.
It's an unsubstantiated rumor.
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at #17. He fell victim to rumors and pressures that Jones might go earlier than that so he picked him at #6, and even said himself it was a difficult decision to pass on the defensive player, ER Josh Allen. So much that he tried to trade up from #17 to still get Allen but he was already gone.
Gettleman always sounded very defensive post-draft in explaining that he knew Jones was going to be picked by other teams, but they may have been just rumors.
It was not a rumor - Broncos and Dolphins would have taken Jones.
Broncos were interested in Lock and Jones but never that early. They took Lock in Rd 2 where they figured both would go per reports.
Not sure about Miami but where has that been verified?
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In comment 15402853 Beer Man said:
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if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.
I don't think that accurately reflects what happened.
Jones was a panic pick. Gettleman admitted as much. He thought that at least two teams were going to take Jones before our next first round pick at #17. So he forced the pick on Jones in order to fill a need. And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.
NONE.
We could all debate the statement that it was a panic pick; I believe DJ became DG's target once Herbert choose to return to Oregon for his Senior season. And where you can argue that there there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by another team, there was also NO EVIDENCE to the contrary (unless you have asshat info on the draft boards of the other teams, if so please share). Either way it should not have been a factor, because you go for your guy if he is there, regardless of who you believe other teams may be selecting between your picks.
EXACTLY!
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if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.
I don't think that accurately reflects what happened.
Jones was a panic pick. Gettleman admitted as much. He thought that at least two teams were going to take Jones before our next first round pick at #17. So he forced the pick on Jones in order to fill a need. And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.
NONE.
You sir are so full of crap it is beyond explanation. It is fairly well known that Denver and Miami wanted Jones. You can spin it any way you want, you can play words, you can twist phrases. Yeah, you say there is no EVIDENCE - which is true because there is never evidence that any team will ever admit to wanting a player already taken, but everyone knew that Denver absolutely wanted him and IIRC Miami did in some way or fashion say he would have been taken.
Go ahead, spin words. Just disingenuous Pablum.
I can admit that I haven't seen him play all that much.
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In comment 15402853 Beer Man said:
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if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.
I don't think that accurately reflects what happened.
Jones was a panic pick. Gettleman admitted as much. He thought that at least two teams were going to take Jones before our next first round pick at #17. So he forced the pick on Jones in order to fill a need. And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.
NONE.
You sir are so full of crap it is beyond explanation. It is fairly well known that Denver and Miami wanted Jones. You can spin it any way you want, you can play words, you can twist phrases. Yeah, you say there is no EVIDENCE - which is true because there is never evidence that any team will ever admit to wanting a player already taken, but everyone knew that Denver absolutely wanted him and IIRC Miami did in some way or fashion say he would have been taken.
Go ahead, spin words. Just disingenuous Pablum.
Not everybody is Urban Meyer leaking out what type of player he wants to run his scheme
The thread is about Allen and other than year 1 Allen has been a JAG. I’m glad we panicked and reached on the QB.
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if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.
I don't think that accurately reflects what happened.
Jones was a panic pick. Gettleman admitted as much. He thought that at least two teams were going to take Jones before our next first round pick at #17. So he forced the pick on Jones in order to fill a need. And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.
NONE.
Right. We should have taken Josh Rosen like you wanted.
Giants fans love to bitch moan and complain right now - I'm guilty of that to a degree...but it could be worse...
the Jags suck...again...hopefully Meyer doesn't ruin Lawrence's career before it gets a chance to get going.
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Since you can’t equate anything he does as special pretend like it is on every one else to figure it out for you. Just as you can not see what can make Jones special.
But he isn't special.
GT - Always interesting to me where you fall out on this. Back when we drafted Jones, you were pretty complimentary of him as a player (not the pick). I know - you wanted Barkley in the first and Jackson in the 2nd.
You used to say things like this - seeing a potential Brees/Brady in DJ:
Another word on Darnold/Jones - Darnold started 13 games his rookie year on a very poor offensive team...poorer than what the Giants have in 2019. If Darnold can start 13 games as a rookie there is no reason Jones (a technically more refined player surrounded by better players) can't do the same.
So, what changed? If anything, Jones has progressed and developed further since then? Seriously curious.
They both seem to be looking to prove things in 2021.
Huh? That’s your new hill?
It’s 3 years ago. Lol. Money! Money!!!
This week he's going against a better team than last week on the road again. The only chance the Giants will have this week is match TDs with Dallas. I doubt they can win without scoring 30 points.
I hope Jones continues to play well. I still don't think he has the instincts and the feel to be an elite NFL QB but if he continues to play well all season and the Giants don't have to replace him, as long as they can sign him for a reasonable rate, that's the best case scenario.
I mean how else would my feeble mind be able to understand that Daniel Jones doesn't have the instincts and the feel to be an elite NFL QB... or that our GM picked him in a complete panic after being duped by other teams GMs?
lol
Such a dumb argument. There was plenty of chatter of multiple teams being interested in Jones. Of course you want definitive proof of something that historically never happens, I wonder why...
Something you are defining as a "panic" is actually pretty normal. Player X isn't predicted to last until Pick X so you take your guy when available. Giants get knocked for that, other teams don't. Its weird.
But "chatter", which there was some, is much different than fact. So let's walk down memory lane. Here is Gettleman's direct quote...
With the way GMs keep information close to the vest, especially leading into a draft, do you really buy this from Gettleman? Short of having moles or listening devices at other Centrals, where does he get these "facts"? Serious question, btw...
Again, I think this all points to Gettleman misreading the market (converting chatter to fact), feeling he had to fill a critical need, and he panicking by taking Jones too early.
And it's very well documented that neither Denver or WFT wanted Jones. Denver had Lock as their #1 QB and WFT had Haskins #1 (based on Snyder knowing Haskins and his family since Snyder's son played high school football with Haskins at the Potomac School).
I don't know if Miami was that hot on Jones. That is very speculative. I do know they traded a second rounder the next day for Rosen. Was the because they missed on Jones? Or did they have Rosen as a target all along since Arizona let the league know they were taking Murray and were willing to trade Rosen...
Right. We should have taken Josh Rosen like you wanted.
I did like Rosen - true. But I soured on his medical issues with his concussion and shoulder problems...
You sir are so full of crap it is beyond explanation. It is fairly well known that Denver and Miami wanted Jones. You can spin it any way you want, you can play words, you can twist phrases. Yeah, you say there is no EVIDENCE - which is true because there is never evidence that any team will ever admit to wanting a player already taken, but everyone knew that Denver absolutely wanted him and IIRC Miami did in some way or fashion say he would have been taken.
Go ahead, spin words. Just disingenuous Pablum.
It's fairly well known? Oh, really...
So you and other continue to dispute reports like the link below. Or Peter King's reports, who was actually in the Denver War Room, and he has said unequivocally that Denver wanted Lock.
I think Miami may have wanted Jones. But it's soft speculation...
Broncos Wanted Lock - ( New Window )
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Right. We should have taken Josh Rosen like you wanted.
I did like Rosen - true. But I soured on his medical issues with his concussion and shoulder problems...
And that's fair.
Just like Terps was hesitant about Jackson when he found out Jackson's mother was his agent plus a bunch of other reports were coming out on him.
My point is that teams evaluate players and do their best based on specific criteria that's important to them, but in the end it's a crapshoot. No one knows how it's really going to turn out and that's why something like 50% of QB's drafted (or more) are busts. That doesn't make drafting DJ a bad pick. In fact, in the all important Year 3, signs are very much trending upward in terms of his progress. He may yet turn out to be not just an okay or good pick but a great one.
And WFT coaches wanted DJ the owner wanted Haskins. This was reported by their insider who has a great pulse on the organization. We never will know who wins that argument because it’s academic now. Snyder hasn’t really involved himself in football decisions in recent years so who knows.
And honestly who gives a shit at this point. DJ can ball and the most important thing is the year over year growth.
Darnold looks like the same QB his sophomore year ar USC, he just plays for a more functional offense and great OC now.
As for Gettleman's quote, you can take it either way. GM's don't typically volunteer inside information that I can recall, but that does not mean it is not true. It really comes down to wanting to believe Gettleman or not. For some, believing Gettleman sinks their argument, for others, dismissing Gettleman's quote sinks their argument.
This is also what makes it sound like you are ok with (I won't say rooting) Jones failing, if that's what ends up happening. It validates your crusade.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/29/nfl-draft-fmia-peter-king/
Within the article:
Gettleman told me he “knows for a fact” there were two teams that wanted Jones between six and 17. I could not find them, though I certainly can’t say with certainty that two do not exist. Either way, Gettleman believed it was not a risk worth taking. And so instead of having some percentage of a chance to get Allen at six and Jones at 17 (or earlier in a trade-up), the Giants got Jones at six and run-stuffing defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence at 17. Finding a run-stuffer, obviously, is easier than finding a pass-rusher. So we’ll see how it works out.
But let’s go through the exercise and see about the two teams and Jones, starting with Jacksonville at seven. No; just signed Nick Foles. Detroit; highly unlikely with Matthew Stafford in-house. Buffalo; no, Josh Allen (the Wyoming QB) just drafted last year. Denver at 10: I was there, and Broncos had Drew Lock number one on their QB board. Bengals at 11; doubtful but don’t know for sure. Green Bay at 12; highly unlikely. Miami at 13; unknown. Atlanta at 14; no way. Washington at 15 seemed locked in on Dwayne Haskins. Carolina at 16; highly unlikely. So Miami, maybe. I can’t find another one that appears likely to have had Jones in the crosshairs, though that doesn’t mean it was not so.
anyone can believe this or not, like everyone else im just an asshole on a message board, but Denver was going to take Jones if the NYG didn't. that's straight from someone directly involved with denver.
or you can believe that they loved lock so much they traded down after the NYG pick and still passed over him until the 2nd round and then gave up on him almost instantly.
It was reported on draft day there was a battle between the coaches and FO for Jones vs Haskins.
Who gives a shit regardless, you have a convinction on the QB you take him in the first round so you have the very important fifth year option. If the Broncos like Lock so much they would have done what Ravens did. It’s all horseshit damage control and they used their local media guys to save face after the draft.
anyone can believe this or not, like everyone else im just an asshole on a message board, but Denver was going to take Jones if the NYG didn't. that's straight from someone directly involved with denver.
or you can believe that they loved lock so much they traded down after the NYG pick and still passed over him until the 2nd round and then gave up on him almost instantly.
Read what I linked above, Denver was not taking Jones. At least not in round one.
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Are you watching the game tonight? If Jones had as brutal as a first half as Stafford he would be blasted on this board. Stanford missed three wide open Wrs, and had one of the most horrible looking picks. The guy is a career loser as well, what has he ever done to be considered elite?
You do realize Jefferson dropped a sure TD right before Stafford threw the bad pick?
And so what if Stafford had a bad half? He more than righted the ship in the second half and ended up with a solid 64 QBR and an excellent 9.9 YPA.
Are you going to tell me, btw, that you would take Jones over Stafford as your QB?
Actually yes at this point I would take Jones over Stafford. Jones has the potential to be a good winning QB. Stafford has never been able to elevate his team despite having some of the best WRs in the game. If I am the Rams I want Stafford, but we aren't the Rams bro hahaha. Stafford has never been able to put a team on his back and carry it and we aren't good enough to plug him in and play well enough for us to win.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/29/nfl-draft-fmia-peter-king/
Within the article:
Gettleman told me he “knows for a fact” there were two teams that wanted Jones between six and 17. I could not find them, though I certainly can’t say with certainty that two do not exist. Either way, Gettleman believed it was not a risk worth taking. And so instead of having some percentage of a chance to get Allen at six and Jones at 17 (or earlier in a trade-up), the Giants got Jones at six and run-stuffing defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence at 17. Finding a run-stuffer, obviously, is easier than finding a pass-rusher. So we’ll see how it works out.
But let’s go through the exercise and see about the two teams and Jones, starting with Jacksonville at seven. No; just signed Nick Foles. Detroit; highly unlikely with Matthew Stafford in-house. Buffalo; no, Josh Allen (the Wyoming QB) just drafted last year. Denver at 10: I was there, and Broncos had Drew Lock number one on their QB board. Bengals at 11; doubtful but don’t know for sure. Green Bay at 12; highly unlikely. Miami at 13; unknown. Atlanta at 14; no way. Washington at 15 seemed locked in on Dwayne Haskins. Carolina at 16; highly unlikely. So Miami, maybe. I can’t find another one that appears likely to have had Jones in the crosshairs, though that doesn’t mean it was not so.
King also didn't think they weren't going to take Lock despite him being "the #1 qb on their board" because the Broncos felt so good about having 34 year old Joe Flacco. Does that seem logical at all?
publicly every team says every player they select was the #1 player on their board after the fact.
Not sure why this continues to be debated here either. Jones was the Giant pick. He may have gone earlier than the Giants wanted but and he is finally playing really well now which is exactly what is most important.
This. Always this. Denver traded down after Jones came off the board. If they truly believed in Lock, they would have taken him at their pick or at least their trade down pick in the 1st. Nope. They instead thought so highly of him they took him in the 2nd round after every other team had a chance at him. The proof is in the pudding.
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You sir are so full of crap it is beyond explanation. It is fairly well known that Denver and Miami wanted Jones. You can spin it any way you want, you can play words, you can twist phrases. Yeah, you say there is no EVIDENCE - which is true because there is never evidence that any team will ever admit to wanting a player already taken, but everyone knew that Denver absolutely wanted him and IIRC Miami did in some way or fashion say he would have been taken.
Go ahead, spin words. Just disingenuous Pablum.
It's fairly well known? Oh, really...
So you and other continue to dispute reports like the link below. Or Peter King's reports, who was actually in the Denver War Room, and he has said unequivocally that Denver wanted Lock.
I think Miami may have wanted Jones. But it's soft speculation...
Broncos Wanted Lock - ( New Window )
Denver said they didn't want Jones and wanted Lock, but come on. They needed a QB bad and passed on all QBs and ended up drafting Lock. Did we really expect them to say we wanted Jones, but he was off the board so we got stuck with Lock in the 2nd round.
Doesn't matter anyways as it was the Bengals that wanted Jones from what I remember and were upset he was drafted. Worked out for them as they got Burrow so sometimes it is the player you don't get.
Do i know for a fact multiple teams were in play for Jones between 6-17? No. Do i think that? Yes. Does it matter? No.
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In comment 15402911 NYGgolfer said:
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at #17. He fell victim to rumors and pressures that Jones might go earlier than that so he picked him at #6, and even said himself it was a difficult decision to pass on the defensive player, ER Josh Allen. So much that he tried to trade up from #17 to still get Allen but he was already gone.
Gettleman always sounded very defensive post-draft in explaining that he knew Jones was going to be picked by other teams, but they may have been just rumors.
It was not a rumor - Broncos and Dolphins would have taken Jones.
It's an unsubstantiated rumor.
I get it, people don't believe what they are not pricy to seeing with their own two eyes. It is what it is.
Do i know for a fact multiple teams were in play for Jones between 6-17? No. Do i think that? Yes. Does it matter? No.
Exactly right. It's so odd that even when picks seemingly work out some still search for a reason they were still a mistake. I forget the exact number but I believe the majority of first round qbs are flat out busts. Like Haskins. And Rosen. And Tua looks like he may be. Lock wasn't picked in the first round obviously but he looks like a flat out bust. The fact that any QB (Jones included) isn't that is already beating the odds.
Do i know for a fact multiple teams were in play for Jones between 6-17? No. Do i think that? Yes. Does it matter? No.
King was in their draft room and wrote the article going thru it all. Do you have accounts from anyone disputing his comments? Trust whomever you want, but King reported his facts and they are posted above.
By the way, its not like Denver has been great at drafting QBs so this rumor they wanted Jones so badly shouldn't give anybody any comfort.
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Mariota has a 29-32 record as a starter and has won a playoff game. Jones has a 9-21 record and only one of those wins (over the 2-1 Saints) was against a team over .500.
And it's crazy to compare Jones to Mariota?
This place makes you think there's an alternate universe sometimes.
By that metric Matthew Stafford isn’t even on Marcus Mariota’s level. Stafford was 74-90-1 in Detroit and never won a playoff game
Terps likes to forget it's a team game..
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if your QB is on the board when your pick is up, then you take that QB without hesitation. We can all argue whether or not DJ should have been their QB of choice, but the fact that he was means DG made the right choice grabbing him when he did. We should know by years end if DJ was the right QB.
I don't think that accurately reflects what happened.
Jones was a panic pick. Gettleman admitted as much. He thought that at least two teams were going to take Jones before our next first round pick at #17. So he forced the pick on Jones in order to fill a need. And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.
NONE.
There is no evidence that he would not have been taken.
NONE.
And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.
NONE.
So because you - an average fucking fan, with no insight at all with what happens in the war room - haven't seen any "evidence", there's no way it's true, huh?
LOL - what a pathetic take...
Terps is famous for moving the goalposts, then trying to claim he didn't do just that...
This is also what makes it sound like you are ok with (I won't say rooting) Jones failing, if that's what ends up happening. It validates your crusade.
Look, I'm not a member of the BBI Scorekeeping Club. I have no interest being more right than others. I just try to evaluate situations/players and offer commentary on areas I find interesting. And when our GM comes out so forcefully that he absolutely knew information that drove a major decision, I find that completely fascinating.
I do want Jones to succeed despite your interpretation. But I am certainly looking ahead if he doesn't prove he's the solution.
It is not unreasonable at all to believe Jones still has potential growth in his game when you consider the circumstances of his career so far.
Put the brakes on.
Andrew Thomas appears to be ascending.
Toney is improving.
Golloday is finding some chemistry.
Watch the season.
Accept that you are not an expert.
anyone can believe this or not, like everyone else im just an asshole on a message board, but Denver was going to take Jones if the NYG didn't. that's straight from someone directly involved with denver.
or you can believe that they loved lock so much they traded down after the NYG pick and still passed over him until the 2nd round and then gave up on him almost instantly.
I know you and I have mixed it up on this before so I won't re-open this. We are each dug in. But I would love to know how you think you know. I have a few friends in the sports media business and they have not heard your information.
Yes, I did like Finley. And that looks like a miss on my part.
The only evidence to support Either sign comes from the Giants general manager.
So you can believe him or not... If you don't you have absolutely no credible reason not to believe him other than he has the history of being quite talkative.
The team was planning on taking a particular quarterback...
... And they did.
Calling it a panic move is completely unfounded in every possible way. They took the guy they planned on taking.
I'm not sure "panic move" means what some people think it means.