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Good question to consider now...

Coopcomic : 10/7/2021 7:17 pm
Remember the Jones draft pick was made when everyone was psyched that Josh Allen (DE) had fallen to us? I was psyched for Allen at the time. I'm personally glad to have Jones, I really like him. But Allen was the clear alternative (I don't think Jones would have lasted to 17 where D. Lawrence pick was made IMO). Anyway - what's your take now?
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RE: RE: Peter King  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15403130 chick310 said:
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In comment 15403118 UConn4523 said:


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is something we are all supposed to trust? Why is that? Do we only trust accounts from people that prove our stance?

Do i know for a fact multiple teams were in play for Jones between 6-17? No. Do i think that? Yes. Does it matter? No.



King was in their draft room and wrote the article going thru it all. Do you have accounts from anyone disputing his comments? Trust whomever you want, but King reported his facts and they are posted above.

By the way, its not like Denver has been great at drafting QBs so this rumor they wanted Jones so badly shouldn't give anybody any comfort.


what comfort does anyone need? Jones the draft pick has worked out so far. On the field he is clearly the 2nd best QB from that draft and Haskins/Lock so far look like total busts. That's not to say he's proven he's a franchise QB yet (he hasn't) but as far as that draft he was the right pick.

the only people who seem to need comfort are those who are still looking for any validation they can find that the Jones pick was wrong because otherwise their opinions are wrong.

So they cling to a completely unprovable assertion that they could have gotten him later (which there is 0 way to prove and more evidence against that for).

or other silly arguments like they shouldn't have drafted him with Eli still under contract (which is about as intelligent as saying the chiefs shouldn't have picked mahomes because they still had Alex Smith or the Ravens shouldn't have taken Lamar with Flacco or the 49ers shouldn't have taken Lance with Garappolo).
RE: RE: RE: Like others have said in the past  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15403139 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 15402902 bw in dc said:


Quote:



And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.

NONE.



So because you - an average fucking fan, with no insight at all with what happens in the war room - haven't seen any "evidence", there's no way it's true, huh?

LOL - what a pathetic take...


You seem like a reasonably smart guy. Tell me, and I'm asking this straight up, how the hell do you think Gettleman knew for a fact two other teams were going to take Jones before #17? Do you actually buy that?

I guess where I am going with this is here - Gettleman should have just stood up and said DJ was his guy and the organization is ecstatic (or words to that effect). And leave it at that.

Instead, he stands ups, pulls this CYA move to deal with the blowback, and adds another chapter to his legacy of idiocy...

King being there  
UConn4523 : 10/8/2021 12:22 pm : link
and reporting back their draft board is strange. I don't know why Denver would be comfortable him doing that, and I can't discount that they asked him to say what he did. We have many on BBI saying that our beats just push the Giants agenda - is that a Giants only thing?

I don't believe King and I have no way to prove that I am right nor do I need to.
RE: RE: bw aren't you the same guy who loved Ryan Finley?  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15403153 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15403096 Eric on Li said:


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and said there was no difference between him and jones?

anyone can believe this or not, like everyone else im just an asshole on a message board, but Denver was going to take Jones if the NYG didn't. that's straight from someone directly involved with denver.

or you can believe that they loved lock so much they traded down after the NYG pick and still passed over him until the 2nd round and then gave up on him almost instantly.



I know you and I have mixed it up on this before so I won't re-open this. We are each dug in. But I would love to know how you think you know. I have a few friends in the sports media business and they have not heard your information.

Yes, I did like Finley. And that looks like a miss on my part.


I think I know because of a firsthand account from someone involved in the decision and whose expected motivation would be to say the opposite because they are still in the organization. Not a random person from the media or a friend of a friend's cousin who was cutting the grass at the mizzou pro day.
bw  
UConn4523 : 10/8/2021 12:24 pm : link
all you are describing is optics. Gettelman isn't good at that, I think we can all agree on that. Marketing isn't for him. It wasn't for Reese either who was a robot, or a mute.

But my retort is - what exactly does him speaking better/differently change on the field? Isn't that what matters? Jones would be the guy either way and our record would be the same.
RE: bw  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15403169 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
all you are describing is optics. Gettelman isn't good at that, I think we can all agree on that. Marketing isn't for him. It wasn't for Reese either who was a robot, or a mute.

But my retort is - what exactly does him speaking better/differently change on the field? Isn't that what matters? Jones would be the guy either way and our record would be the same.


anything to distract from the fact that the NYG scouts were right about Jones being the 2nd best QB in the 2019 draft and worthy of that selection relative to the choices they passed on the prior year (Darnold, Rosen, Allen).
RE: RE: RE: RE: Like others have said in the past  
BigBlueShock : 10/8/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15403163 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15403139 speedywheels said:


Quote:


In comment 15402902 bw in dc said:


Quote:



And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.

NONE.



So because you - an average fucking fan, with no insight at all with what happens in the war room - haven't seen any "evidence", there's no way it's true, huh?

LOL - what a pathetic take...



You seem like a reasonably smart guy. Tell me, and I'm asking this straight up, how the hell do you think Gettleman knew for a fact two other teams were going to take Jones before #17? Do you actually buy that?

I guess where I am going with this is here - Gettleman should have just stood up and said DJ was his guy and the organization is ecstatic (or words to that effect). And leave it at that.

Instead, he stands ups, pulls this CYA move to deal with the blowback, and adds another chapter to his legacy of idiocy...

You should scroll up to Mort Christensons 11:36 post. You may not be familiar with the poster, but I think it’s fair to say he’s a hell of a lot more in tune with what’s going on in the league than you are…
RE: RE: RE: Peter King  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15403160 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15403130 chick310 said:


Quote:


In comment 15403118 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


is something we are all supposed to trust? Why is that? Do we only trust accounts from people that prove our stance?

Do i know for a fact multiple teams were in play for Jones between 6-17? No. Do i think that? Yes. Does it matter? No.



King was in their draft room and wrote the article going thru it all. Do you have accounts from anyone disputing his comments? Trust whomever you want, but King reported his facts and they are posted above.

By the way, its not like Denver has been great at drafting QBs so this rumor they wanted Jones so badly shouldn't give anybody any comfort.



what comfort does anyone need? Jones the draft pick has worked out so far. On the field he is clearly the 2nd best QB from that draft and Haskins/Lock so far look like total busts. That's not to say he's proven he's a franchise QB yet (he hasn't) but as far as that draft he was the right pick.

the only people who seem to need comfort are those who are still looking for any validation they can find that the Jones pick was wrong because otherwise their opinions are wrong.

So they cling to a completely unprovable assertion that they could have gotten him later (which there is 0 way to prove and more evidence against that for).

or other silly arguments like they shouldn't have drafted him with Eli still under contract (which is about as intelligent as saying the chiefs shouldn't have picked mahomes because they still had Alex Smith or the Ravens shouldn't have taken Lamar with Flacco or the 49ers shouldn't have taken Lance with Garappolo).


Not really, posters look for comfort all the time to substantiate their opinions or support their team. Very common. Digging in on rumor that Denver wanted Jones doesn't make him better or worse in 2021 for us but somehow it keeps coming up on the site.

As I mentioned and you say above, the most important thing isn't who else did or didn't want Jones. It's that he is a NYG and playing well right now.
RE: King being there  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15403167 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and reporting back their draft board is strange. I don't know why Denver would be comfortable him doing that, and I can't discount that they asked him to say what he did. We have many on BBI saying that our beats just push the Giants agenda - is that a Giants only thing?

I don't believe King and I have no way to prove that I am right nor do I need to.


It isn't strange.

Peter King has been invited to several team's war rooms over the years and has done the same thing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Like others have said in the past  
BigBlueShock : 10/8/2021 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15403172 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15403163 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15403139 speedywheels said:


Quote:


In comment 15402902 bw in dc said:


Quote:



And despite what a few Asshat-wannabees say here at BBI to justify the move, there is NO EVIDENCE that Jones would have been taken by any of those team before #17.

NONE.



So because you - an average fucking fan, with no insight at all with what happens in the war room - haven't seen any "evidence", there's no way it's true, huh?

LOL - what a pathetic take...



You seem like a reasonably smart guy. Tell me, and I'm asking this straight up, how the hell do you think Gettleman knew for a fact two other teams were going to take Jones before #17? Do you actually buy that?

I guess where I am going with this is here - Gettleman should have just stood up and said DJ was his guy and the organization is ecstatic (or words to that effect). And leave it at that.

Instead, he stands ups, pulls this CYA move to deal with the blowback, and adds another chapter to his legacy of idiocy...



You should scroll up to Mort Christensons 11:36 post. You may not be familiar with the poster, but I think it’s fair to say he’s a hell of a lot more in tune with what’s going on in the league than you are…

Sorry, 11:53 post…
RE: RE: RE: RE: Peter King  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15403173 chick310 said:
Quote:


As I mentioned and you say above, the most important thing isn't who else did or didn't want Jones. It's that he is a NYG and playing well right now.


it's not the most important thing to those who continue to stay dug in and bring up why they think the pick was a mistake. im not accusing you of this but rather the group that recirculates the same bs in endless threads as they've done on this one.

in response to the OP the only logical answer is that in hindsight it does seem like the right call to have taken Jones > Allen. No?
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15403169 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
all you are describing is optics. Gettelman isn't good at that, I think we can all agree on that. Marketing isn't for him. It wasn't for Reese either who was a robot, or a mute.

But my retort is - what exactly does him speaking better/differently change on the field? Isn't that what matters? Jones would be the guy either way and our record would be the same.


To me, this is more of a macro study and how DG goes about making decisions to build the football team. So I wouldn't call it a best management practice to make a decision based on a rumor or speculation. Especially when picking a QB...
I want to be clear  
UConn4523 : 10/8/2021 12:39 pm : link
i'm not defending DG. I'm simply pointing out that both sides of this argument don't know shit, neither has "proof" and its just another pissing match.
RE: RE: King being there  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/8/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15403176 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 15403167 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


and reporting back their draft board is strange. I don't know why Denver would be comfortable him doing that, and I can't discount that they asked him to say what he did. We have many on BBI saying that our beats just push the Giants agenda - is that a Giants only thing?

I don't believe King and I have no way to prove that I am right nor do I need to.



It isn't strange.

Peter King has been invited to several team's war rooms over the years and has done the same thing.


That’s because he puts out whatever the teams want to after the draft. He doesn’t give a shit anymore, guy is just drinking coffee and collecting paychecks. Teams aren’t inviting guys into the war room unless they put out what they want after the draft. He’s a team mouthpiece these days.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Peter King  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15403178 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15403173 chick310 said:


Quote:




As I mentioned and you say above, the most important thing isn't who else did or didn't want Jones. It's that he is a NYG and playing well right now.



it's not the most important thing to those who continue to stay dug in and bring up why they think the pick was a mistake. im not accusing you of this but rather the group that recirculates the same bs in endless threads as they've done on this one.

in response to the OP the only logical answer is that in hindsight it does seem like the right call to have taken Jones > Allen. No?


Yeah, I don't know if Jones was mistake pick and I hope he wasn't. He sure is playing well now.

But he was indeed early and earlier than even the Giants wanted otherwise Gettleman wouldn't have agonized not picking Josh Allen like he said. I think he did "panic" somewhat with all that was going on, but it wasn't that they didn't like him a lot and he was going to be the pick at #17 anyway so panic is somewhat overblown, but not completely unfair.

As to other point, Jones was the right pick if he can make the Giants a winning team. Otherwise I would rather have Allen and find another QB in another year.
RE: RE: bw  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15403181 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15403169 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


all you are describing is optics. Gettelman isn't good at that, I think we can all agree on that. Marketing isn't for him. It wasn't for Reese either who was a robot, or a mute.

But my retort is - what exactly does him speaking better/differently change on the field? Isn't that what matters? Jones would be the guy either way and our record would be the same.



To me, this is more of a macro study and how DG goes about making decisions to build the football team. So I wouldn't call it a best management practice to make a decision based on a rumor or speculation. Especially when picking a QB...


lol so you don't like the way you think he made the decision even though the decision itself (Jones > Allen/Haskins/Lock) turned out to be correct?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Like others have said in the past  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15403177 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:


You should scroll up to Mort Christensons 11:36 post. You may not be familiar with the poster, but I think it’s fair to say he’s a hell of a lot more in tune with what’s going on in the league than you are…


Sorry, 11:53 post…


Okay. But I don't know who that is and why I should buy what he's selling.

chick310 posted some good information. King has been in many draft rooms over his career. GMs/Teams trust him. He's been a league reporter for 35+ years. He's tuned in.

So when he was actually in the Denver war room, and details the decision making process, it's pretty funny how many posters mock him as not telling the truth. Like he and Elway conspired together - like a spy novel - to throw everyone off the scent how much Elway loved and adored Jones.

RE: I want to be clear  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15403184 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
i'm not defending DG. I'm simply pointing out that both sides of this argument don't know shit, neither has "proof" and its just another pissing match.


I don't know how anyone could read that article of all the things Peter King had to say about that 2019 draft and conclude it isn't at least decent proof about Denver/Jones versus a defensive soundbite from Gettleman. Look at all the details King discusses as fact and isn't just hypothesizing.

That is just digging in.
RE: RE: RE: bw  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15403188 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


To me, this is more of a macro study and how DG goes about making decisions to build the football team. So I wouldn't call it a best management practice to make a decision based on a rumor or speculation. Especially when picking a QB...



lol so you don't like the way you think he made the decision even though the decision itself (Jones > Allen/Haskins/Lock) turned out to be correct?


We're 1-3 so far this year. And I'm sure you can do quick math to figure out the team's record with Jones at QB and since DG arrived.

So this seems a bit premature to take a victory lap on Jones.

But, yes, he is "better" than Haskins and Lock.
RE: RE: RE: RE: bw  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15403193 bw in dc said:
Quote:

We're 1-3 so far this year. And I'm sure you can do quick math to figure out the team's record with Jones at QB and since DG arrived.

So this seems a bit premature to take a victory lap on Jones.

But, yes, he is "better" than Haskins and Lock.


the only victory lap right now is that 2.25 seasons in it looks like they correctly selected the best QB available in 2019.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bw  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 4:11 pm : link
In comment 15403198 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15403193 bw in dc said:


Quote:



We're 1-3 so far this year. And I'm sure you can do quick math to figure out the team's record with Jones at QB and since DG arrived.

So this seems a bit premature to take a victory lap on Jones.

But, yes, he is "better" than Haskins and Lock.



the only victory lap right now is that 2.25 seasons in it looks like they correctly selected the best QB available in 2019.


I'm assuming you mean outside of Murray...
Murray wasn’t available  
UConn4523 : 10/8/2021 4:15 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Or Stafford?  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 4:23 pm : link
In comment 15403103 Amtoft said:
Quote:

Actually yes at this point I would take Jones over Stafford. Jones has the potential to be a good winning QB. Stafford has never been able to elevate his team despite having some of the best WRs in the game. If I am the Rams I want Stafford, but we aren't the Rams bro hahaha. Stafford has never been able to put a team on his back and carry it and we aren't good enough to plug him in and play well enough for us to win.


Archie Manning was a very good NFL QB who was stuck in professional football purgatory in New Orleans in the '70s. Stafford played in Detroit - another football purgatory. I would think that variable should be factored into your analysis.

Stafford did lead that black hole, however, to four winning seasons and three playoff appearances. So I think that gives him much more credibility than you are acknowledging.

He's a special talent. A great thrower who can put the anywhere and throw receivers open. Jones is a better runner compared to Stafford - that's it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: bw  
Big Blue '56 : 10/8/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15403193 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15403188 Eric on Li said:


Quote:




To me, this is more of a macro study and how DG goes about making decisions to build the football team. So I wouldn't call it a best management practice to make a decision based on a rumor or speculation. Especially when picking a QB...



lol so you don't like the way you think he made the decision even though the decision itself (Jones > Allen/Haskins/Lock) turned out to be correct?



We're 1-3 so far this year. And I'm sure you can do quick math to figure out the team's record with Jones at QB and since DG arrived.

So this seems a bit premature to take a victory lap on Jones.

But, yes, he is "better" than Haskins and Lock.


If it was any other team, you’d say 1-3 with an asterisk
The sticking point for me...  
Brown_Hornet : 10/8/2021 4:34 pm : link
... Is the notion That Daniel Jones was selected due to rumor or speculation... That's somehow the pick was rushed And made in a panic.

There is less evidence of that being true than there is of other teams being interested in Daniel Jones.

The argument has absolutely no legs whatsoever.

There really isn't an argument to be made.
Let’s be clear and define, in THIS CASE, what panic means/meant:  
Big Blue '56 : 10/8/2021 4:38 pm : link
The “panic” was the real concern of DG’s that DJ had little to know chance of lasting until 17.

Let’s move on from this now?
Panic move =  
crick n NC : 10/8/2021 4:47 pm : link
George Young 1996 draft which got us Cedric Jones.
RE: Panic move =  
Big Blue '56 : 10/8/2021 4:51 pm : link
In comment 15403365 crick n NC said:
Quote:
George Young 1996 draft which got us Cedric Jones.


Bingo!
Nobody is arguing he was picked because of a rumor or  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 4:52 pm : link
speculation. The notion is he was picked as early as he was by the Giants at #6 because of rumors and speculation.

Gettleman wanted to pick him at #17 but felt pressured to do it earlier otherwise he "guaranteed" everyone Jones would have been gone by #17.
I don't think it was a panic move  
Go Terps : 10/8/2021 4:58 pm : link
Gettleman fell in full bloom love. He said the day of that draft that Jones's pocket presence impressed him. Being coached by Cutcliffe made it easy to plant the notion in Mara that he'd be an Eli clone.

It was a really well thought out and executed evaluation process.
Daniel Jones doesn't have the instincts and the feel to be an elite  
arniefez : 10/8/2021 4:58 pm : link
NFL QB or if he does we haven't seen them yet. That's my opinion and that's what I've seen so far. Doesn't mean I'm correct but this is a fan board, not a board for "NFL expert level QB talent evaluators and draft experts". who drafted these QBs - many of them in top 5 or higher in the past 10 years

Sam Bradford - 1
Jameis Winston - 1
Robert Griffin III - 2
Blaine Gabbert - 10
Ryan Tannehill - 8
Marcus Mariota - 2
Josh Rosen - 10
Blake Bortles - 3
Carson Wentz - 2
Jared Goff - 1
Jake Locker - 8
Mitchell Trubisky - 2

that doesn't include the rest of the 1st rounders above the top 10. My point is being a GM doesn't make someone a better talent evaluator that a lot of fans who post here. There's a pretty good case for the opposite.
so back to saying Jones was the wrong pick? and the better pick was?  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 5:11 pm : link
im having trouble keeping track.
We either need Jones  
Mike from SI : 10/8/2021 5:13 pm : link
to become completely awesome (hopefully) or to completely suck (hopefully not) or we're going to continue having this argument until he's off the team or has playoff success.

It's ok to sit back and just analyze how he plays, without worrying whether you were right or wrong about the pick. Really, it's ok. You can wait until after Week 18. (Feels very weird to say Week 18 btw.)
RE: Daniel Jones doesn't have the instincts and the feel to be an elite  
Mike from SI : 10/8/2021 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15403376 arniefez said:
Quote:
NFL QB or if he does we haven't seen them yet. That's my opinion and that's what I've seen so far. Doesn't mean I'm correct but this is a fan board, not a board for "NFL expert level QB talent evaluators and draft experts". who drafted these QBs - many of them in top 5 or higher in the past 10 years

Sam Bradford - 1
Jameis Winston - 1
Robert Griffin III - 2
Blaine Gabbert - 10
Ryan Tannehill - 8
Marcus Mariota - 2
Josh Rosen - 10
Blake Bortles - 3
Carson Wentz - 2
Jared Goff - 1
Jake Locker - 8
Mitchell Trubisky - 2

that doesn't include the rest of the 1st rounders above the top 10. My point is being a GM doesn't make someone a better talent evaluator that a lot of fans who post here. There's a pretty good case for the opposite.


Most nerdy stuff I've read indicates that the draft is a total crapshoot and that maybe there are a few GMs who are a little bit better at it.
RE: Nobody is arguing he was picked because of a rumor or  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15403370 chick310 said:
Quote:
speculation. The notion is he was picked as early as he was by the Giants at #6 because of rumors and speculation.

Gettleman wanted to pick him at #17 but felt pressured to do it earlier otherwise he "guaranteed" everyone Jones would have been gone by #17.


This is how I piece it together as well. I would bet Jones was lower on their board than #6. But the pressure of replacing Eli, drafting a franchise QB (for DG), and then the rumors that surfaced very likely caused Gettleman to change his board mid-draft.
RE: I don't think it was a panic move  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 5:18 pm : link
In comment 15403375 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman fell in full bloom love. He said the day of that draft that Jones's pocket presence impressed him. Being coached by Cutcliffe made it easy to plant the notion in Mara that he'd be an Eli clone.

It was a really well thought out and executed evaluation process.


I think all of that applies at #17, too. But when CIA Dave got a hold of these "facts" about other teams going after Jones, the panic button was pushed.
RE: RE: Nobody is arguing he was picked because of a rumor or  
Mike from SI : 10/8/2021 5:19 pm : link
In comment 15403393 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15403370 chick310 said:


Quote:


speculation. The notion is he was picked as early as he was by the Giants at #6 because of rumors and speculation.

Gettleman wanted to pick him at #17 but felt pressured to do it earlier otherwise he "guaranteed" everyone Jones would have been gone by #17.



This is how I piece it together as well. I would bet Jones was lower on their board than #6. But the pressure of replacing Eli, drafting a franchise QB (for DG), and then the rumors that surfaced very likely caused Gettleman to change his board mid-draft.


I have come to dislike Gettelman a lot but this analysis doesn't pass muster to me. Does Gettelman seem like the type to panic? Or rather like the guy who falls in love with a player beforehand and decides to draft him even if it's "too early?"
RE: RE: RE: Nobody is arguing he was picked because of a rumor or  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15403402 Mike from SI said:
Quote:


This is how I piece it together as well. I would bet Jones was lower on their board than #6. But the pressure of replacing Eli, drafting a franchise QB (for DG), and then the rumors that surfaced very likely caused Gettleman to change his board mid-draft.



I have come to dislike Gettelman a lot but this analysis doesn't pass muster to me. Does Gettelman seem like the type to panic? Or rather like the guy who falls in love with a player beforehand and decides to draft him even if it's "too early?"


I contend both can be true.

RE: The sticking point for me...  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 5:29 pm : link
In comment 15403349 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
... Is the notion That Daniel Jones was selected due to rumor or speculation... That's somehow the pick was rushed And made in a panic.

There is less evidence of that being true than there is of other teams being interested in Daniel Jones.

The argument has absolutely no legs whatsoever.

There really isn't an argument to be made.


Well, panic was implied - to my ears - when Gettleman said he had facts that Jones wasn't going to be available unless he took him at #6.

I've asked this scores of time...why did Gettleman feel compelled to say that publicly?
Agree with bw  
Go Terps : 10/8/2021 5:29 pm : link
Falling in love with a prospect would probably increase the chance at panic over the possibility of not getting him. Look at how Gettleman handled the Leonard Williams negotiation. Williams and his agent probably wake up in the morning in mid-laugh.

Gettleman is the guy that makes you sit back down at the poker table after deciding to call it a night. He's a fucking donor.



it's actually pretty simple  
Producer : 10/8/2021 5:32 pm : link
If Gettleman decided that Jones was a slam dunk Franchise QB, he had to take him at #6. But along with that goes the responsibility for the pick. If it doesn't work out it is bad because then it looks like he reached for a QB that he misjudged.

RE: it's actually pretty simple  
bw in dc : 10/8/2021 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15403413 Producer said:
Quote:
If Gettleman decided that Jones was a slam dunk Franchise QB, he had to take him at #6. But along with that goes the responsibility for the pick. If it doesn't work out it is bad because then it looks like he reached for a QB that he misjudged.


Fine - then just say that when discussing why you made the selection. Why the need to wrap the pick around the threat of other teams taking Jones?

I mentioned this earlier, but that reeks of someone who is weak at decision making.
RE: RE: The sticking point for me...  
Big Blue '56 : 10/8/2021 5:47 pm : link
In comment 15403410 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15403349 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


... Is the notion That Daniel Jones was selected due to rumor or speculation... That's somehow the pick was rushed And made in a panic.

There is less evidence of that being true than there is of other teams being interested in Daniel Jones.

The argument has absolutely no legs whatsoever.

There really isn't an argument to be made.



Well, panic was implied - to my ears - when Gettleman said he had facts that Jones wasn't going to be available unless he took him at #6.

I've asked this scores of time...why did Gettleman feel compelled to say that publicly?


Easy, because he was “getting it” from all angles of the media for his pick at 6. I would have said something as well. Anything to shut them up. You’re making way too much of this.
RE: RE: Nobody is arguing he was picked because of a rumor or  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 6:40 pm : link
In comment 15403393 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15403370 chick310 said:


Quote:


speculation. The notion is he was picked as early as he was by the Giants at #6 because of rumors and speculation.

Gettleman wanted to pick him at #17 but felt pressured to do it earlier otherwise he "guaranteed" everyone Jones would have been gone by #17.



This is how I piece it together as well. I would bet Jones was lower on their board than #6. But the pressure of replacing Eli, drafting a franchise QB (for DG), and then the rumors that surfaced very likely caused Gettleman to change his board mid-draft.


Of course.

And the fact that a good Edge Rusher like Josh Allen became available at #6 and he was conflicted since he felt he had to pull up Jones because of the rumors made it very difficult for him. And why he discussed specifically in his presser afterwards that he "agonized" over that very issue.
RE: RE: RE: Nobody is arguing he was picked because of a rumor or  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 6:47 pm : link
In comment 15403402 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 15403393 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15403370 chick310 said:


Quote:


speculation. The notion is he was picked as early as he was by the Giants at #6 because of rumors and speculation.

Gettleman wanted to pick him at #17 but felt pressured to do it earlier otherwise he "guaranteed" everyone Jones would have been gone by #17.



This is how I piece it together as well. I would bet Jones was lower on their board than #6. But the pressure of replacing Eli, drafting a franchise QB (for DG), and then the rumors that surfaced very likely caused Gettleman to change his board mid-draft.



I have come to dislike Gettelman a lot but this analysis doesn't pass muster to me. Does Gettelman seem like the type to panic? Or rather like the guy who falls in love with a player beforehand and decides to draft him even if it's "too early?"


Semantics. The panic in Gettleman came from falling in love with Jones and assuming he could get him at #17. But by the time the Draft started he was "panicked" enough that Jones wouldn't be there at #17 so he pulled him up.

Again, what is the issue is believing this? Especially since Jones is playing really well right now and we are pleased that he is.
RE: it's actually pretty simple  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 6:53 pm : link
In comment 15403413 Producer said:
Quote:
If Gettleman decided that Jones was a slam dunk Franchise QB, he had to take him at #6. But along with that goes the responsibility for the pick. If it doesn't work out it is bad because then it looks like he reached for a QB that he misjudged.


Producer - your comment is fine.

But Gettleman then should have just said Jones was the pick all along because of his potential to be a Franchise QB. Instead he went down his usual "poker face" mode saying he guaranteed Jones would have been taken by at least two other teams and that he agonized over not taking Josh Allen.

This one is kind of simple to dissect.
chick310 youre either misremembering or picking/choosing what you read  
Eric on Li : 10/8/2021 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15403447 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 15403413 Producer said:


Quote:


If Gettleman decided that Jones was a slam dunk Franchise QB, he had to take him at #6. But along with that goes the responsibility for the pick. If it doesn't work out it is bad because then it looks like he reached for a QB that he misjudged.




Producer - your comment is fine.

But Gettleman then should have just said Jones was the pick all along because of his potential to be a Franchise QB. Instead he went down his usual "poker face" mode saying he guaranteed Jones would have been taken by at least two other teams and that he agonized over not taking Josh Allen.

This one is kind of simple to dissect.


I'd encourage you to go back and read the transcript from the press conference right after the pick because Gettleman said exactly what you're saying he should have said. I've pulled most of those exact quotes for you:

Quote:
Opening Statement
Gettleman: It’s a wonderful thing when need and value match. We are thrilled to get Daniel (Jones). He was up there with everybody else on our board in terms of value and he was just perfect for us. I really believe in this kid. I really believe he is going to be a really nice, quality quarterback for us, for our franchise.

Q: Was Daniel Jones your best player available at 6? Did you have a higher grade on him than Josh Allen?
Gettleman: First of all, it is legal for guys to have the same grade. So when we set up our horizontal, they were on the same line.

Q: At what point did you realize he was your guy?
Gettleman: For me, it’s been a while. It’s been a while, to be frank with you.


Q: What stuck out to you?
Gettleman: I loved him on film. I absolutely loved him. I loved everything about him.

Q: Forgetting about the head for a second, what about his talent level did you like more than the other quarterback prospects?
Gettleman: I just thought his pocket presence and his poise were really important to me. I’ve been saying it for a long time: if you can’t consistently make plays from the pocket, you’re not going to make it in the NFL. You’ll be just another guy. You look at Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks, they consistently make plays from the pocket. That’s what this kid can do, and he is not by any stretch of the imagination an average athlete. He’s a really good athlete. This kid can extend, make plays with his feet, buy time in the pocket. He’s got feel. He really has all the things you’re looking for.


And as far as him falling to pick #17, here's what he said when asked:

Quote:
Q: Do you think you could’ve gotten Jones at No. 17?
Gettleman: You never know.

Q: And you weren’t willing to risk it?
Gettleman: I was not willing to risk it.


https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2019/04/25/new-york-giants-2019-nfl-draft-review-and-rookie-free-agent-signings/ - ( New Window )
E...  
Brown_Hornet : 10/8/2021 9:12 pm : link
...with the 🎤 drop.
RE: E...  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 9:52 pm : link
In comment 15403516 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...with the 🎤 drop.


Not surprising.

Only several nights from you saying make threads about football discussion and not about petty disputes and remarks. Congrats on getting thru almost two days on your own commitment.
RE: chick310 youre either misremembering or picking/choosing what you read  
chick310 : 10/8/2021 10:04 pm : link
In comment 15403476 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15403447 chick310 said:


Quote:


In comment 15403413 Producer said:


Quote:


If Gettleman decided that Jones was a slam dunk Franchise QB, he had to take him at #6. But along with that goes the responsibility for the pick. If it doesn't work out it is bad because then it looks like he reached for a QB that he misjudged.




Producer - your comment is fine.

But Gettleman then should have just said Jones was the pick all along because of his potential to be a Franchise QB. Instead he went down his usual "poker face" mode saying he guaranteed Jones would have been taken by at least two other teams and that he agonized over not taking Josh Allen.

This one is kind of simple to dissect.



I'd encourage you to go back and read the transcript from the press conference right after the pick because Gettleman said exactly what you're saying he should have said. I've pulled most of those exact quotes for you:



Quote:


Opening Statement
Gettleman: It’s a wonderful thing when need and value match. We are thrilled to get Daniel (Jones). He was up there with everybody else on our board in terms of value and he was just perfect for us. I really believe in this kid. I really believe he is going to be a really nice, quality quarterback for us, for our franchise.

Q: Was Daniel Jones your best player available at 6? Did you have a higher grade on him than Josh Allen?
Gettleman: First of all, it is legal for guys to have the same grade. So when we set up our horizontal, they were on the same line.

Q: At what point did you realize he was your guy?
Gettleman: For me, it’s been a while. It’s been a while, to be frank with you.

Q: What stuck out to you?
Gettleman: I loved him on film. I absolutely loved him. I loved everything about him.

Q: Forgetting about the head for a second, what about his talent level did you like more than the other quarterback prospects?
Gettleman: I just thought his pocket presence and his poise were really important to me. I’ve been saying it for a long time: if you can’t consistently make plays from the pocket, you’re not going to make it in the NFL. You’ll be just another guy. You look at Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks, they consistently make plays from the pocket. That’s what this kid can do, and he is not by any stretch of the imagination an average athlete. He’s a really good athlete. This kid can extend, make plays with his feet, buy time in the pocket. He’s got feel. He really has all the things you’re looking for.



And as far as him falling to pick #17, here's what he said when asked:



Quote:


Q: Do you think you could’ve gotten Jones at No. 17?
Gettleman: You never know.

Q: And you weren’t willing to risk it?
Gettleman: I was not willing to risk it.

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2019/04/25/new-york-giants-2019-nfl-draft-review-and-rookie-free-agent-signings/ - ( New Window )


Yeah, you pulled all those really good relevant quotes. Let's go thru these...

"It is legal to have the same grade"...no that doesn't sound defensive at all.

It's been a while since I knew he was our guy". "I loved this guy". Yet this was an agonizing decision? Doesn't compute.

Seems to me these comments suggest Jones was a slam dunk at #6, so not sure why he and Allen had the same grade at all. And certainly doesn't seem agonizing to not go with Josh Allen.

Was there something else Eric?

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