I had no idea about this apparently he's been fumbling at a higher rate than Daniel Jones in his rookie year. Yet at least one noteworthy poster that hates Jones and wouldn't give him a break with the fumbles was taking shots at him earlier because Hurts was apparently playing great in a game. The reason it's hard to take some people seriously is because the bar seems to be very different with some of our fans for Jones than for anyone else.
Quarterbacks turn the ball over every week. most recently I have seen Herbert, Mahomes, Stafford, Brady, make plays that would be conclusive evidence to some that Daniel doesn’t have it.
I don't know what the OP is referring to and don't necessarily care. But the round you were selected shouldn't matter at all. He's a starting QB for an NFL team and should be critiqued the same as his 31 peers.
That statement explains a lot about your position on Jones. Eli was the second pick in the draft, Tom Brady was a 6 th round pick. Brady has delivered 6 Super Bowl titles, THREE TIMES MORE than Eli!
By your metric, Eli did not live up to his draft status.
Hell even in his own class many view Rothlisberger as better.
He has a lot of good attributes. Looks like he belongs, great athleticism. I just wonder if he passes well enough. As an OU fan I’ve watched a lot of the current OU QB crop. Does he compare to Murray or Mayfield as a passer I don’t think he’s as good as Murray but maybe as good as Mayfield? I really don’t know.
Lawd
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Jones was the 6th.
I don't know what the OP is referring to and don't necessarily care. But the round you were selected shouldn't matter at all. He's a starting QB for an NFL team and should be critiqued the same as his 31 peers.
When you’re selected 6th, you should not fumble. Ok though, if taken 53rd
Exactly. He's either a franchise QB or he's not. And I say this still waiting to pass final judgement on Jones. But I'm cautiously optimistic that Jones is.
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Jones was the 6th.
That statement explains a lot about your position on Jones. Eli was the second pick in the draft, Tom Brady was a 6 th round pick. Brady has delivered 6 Super Bowl titles, THREE TIMES MORE than Eli!
By your metric, Eli did not live up to his draft status.
Hell even in his own class many view Rothlisberger as better.
joeinpa, i agree with you and not to nitpick, but Eli was the #1 pick.
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Jones was the 6th.
Exactly. He's either a franchise QB or he's not. And I say this still waiting to pass final judgement on Jones. But I'm cautiously optimistic that Jones is.
To clarify after rereading my response. To say less is expected of Hurts so it's OK because of where he was drafted? I don't care where they were drafted. They are either "The Guy" or they are not. Hurts apparently has issues. Hopefully he does. They can have Hurts I'll gamble on Jones. Time will tell.
It would be nice though if Hurts coughed it up a few times later this season when the Giants play against him.
Hurt was acquired with a less valuable pick, and historically is less likely to succeed.
Is there anything controversial about the statement other than who made it?
To be fair to Hurts, even the Eagles didn’t foresee him as a possible franchise guy. Wentz is constantly missing games and they wanted a solid backup and that’s what Hurts is. I don’t think anyone saw Wentz play just falling off a cliff (I think he’s mentally broken) The Eagles are primarily driven by analytics and I think they are playing money ball with Hurts. They obviously didn’t like Field and are hoping a top 10 pick will be worth it next year. I don’t want to see Malik in green, he’s exactly the type of QB that can come in and produce on a rookie contract even if he’s never great.
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Jones was the 6th.
I don't know what the OP is referring to and don't necessarily care. But the round you were selected shouldn't matter at all. He's a starting QB for an NFL team and should be critiqued the same as his 31 peers.
You don’t think expectations are different for a lottery pick versus a late second round pick?
Specifically early in their careers…
And draft position means exactly diddly squat after the draft is over anymore. The days of 100 million coming out of college are over. If anything rookie salaries makes it easier to take a chance.
All it is now is just a weak ass argument used to try to prove their agenda. Maybe he’ll have 8 fumbles and 5 picks just so you and your tiresome group can be happy
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Jones was the 6th.
And draft position means exactly diddly squat after the draft is over anymore. The days of 100 million coming out of college are over. If anything rookie salaries makes it easier to take a chance.
All it is now is just a weak ass argument used to try to prove their agenda. Maybe he’ll have 8 fumbles and 5 picks just so you and your tiresome group can be happy
Let me ask you a question - why was Jones given a larger rookie contract than Hurts?
Btw, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to criticize Hurts - I’m not the one the OP is referring to in his odd post - but there is a distinction between what is expected for a top pick versus a lower second round pick, especially QB.
If you don’t think so, you are either incredibly naive or just stubborn.
If Peart is deemed ready to start? Absolutely. Why wouldn’t it? Once these players are on the field draft slots are completely irrelevant. Are you saying you’re going to be fine with Peart giving up 3 sacks per game if the staff decides he’s ready? Because he was only a 3rd rounder?
Hurts was named the starting QB. The only expectations should be that he performs like one. Do you think the Eagles are ok with his turnovers because, hey, he’s only a 2nd round pick?
2 - of course the expectations for 6th overall verse a mid to late 2nd matter. You forfeited the right to a better player and the 1st rounder is likely going to be afforded more opportunities. As someone mentioned hurts was drafted to be a backup and potential trade bait.
3 - why is this a hurts v Jones thread argument? Both have flashed positives and both have massive areas to improve upon. There is a reason you hear about Watson connected to the eagles all the time.
Fans’ expectations means absolutely nothing. The only expectations should be if you’re on the field, do your job and do it well. If you’re starting and suck at your job it affects the team the same no matter what round you were drafted in the past
If the roles were reversed the arguments here would be a complete 180.
Using a criteria not in his control to evaluate the player makes no sense. Should we also evaluate Jones based on how much Logan Ryan’s contract was extended for?
Pick status and opportunity costs matter for roster building. That’s the GM’s job.
DJ’s job is make plays on the field where they’re there to be made and reduce errors. Everyone said he needs to make a jump his 3rd year. So far, so good. Yay?
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I disagree. I think expectations can be reasonably assigned to the cost of acquisition.
Fans’ expectations means absolutely nothing. The only expectations should be if you’re on the field, do your job and do it well. If you’re starting and suck at your job it affects the team the same no matter what round you were drafted in the past
In the moment, sure. In the broader landscape of resource allocation and broader team building/architecture that’s not true.
I hope he is. I hope Philly keeps him as their starting QB as long as they possibly could.
That statement explains a lot about your position on Jones. Eli was the second pick in the draft, Tom Brady was a 6 th round pick. Brady has delivered 6 Super Bowl titles, THREE TIMES MORE than Eli!
By your metric, Eli did not live up to his draft status.
Hell even in his own class many view Rothlisberger as better.
My position on Jones has been clear from the time he was selected - live up to the billing as a top pick and be our franchise QB. And do it quickly so it's easier to determine if he's worth the critical second contract.
I don't look at the Eli v Brady comp the way you do.
Brady exceeded expectations more than any player in the history of the NFL. He was almost cut his first year as the Pats considered going with Damon Huard instead as Bledsoe's back-up. A total outlier.
Eli was a top pick and expected to play like a franchise QB. By and large, he accomplished that by playing a huge role in two SB wins.
Using a criteria not in his control to evaluate the player makes no sense. Should we also evaluate Jones based on how much Logan Ryan’s contract was extended for?
Pick status and opportunity costs matter for roster building. That’s the GM’s job.
DJ’s job is make plays on the field where they’re there to be made and reduce errors. Everyone said he needs to make a jump his 3rd year. So far, so good. Yay?
So you expect Austin Johnson to be as productive as Leonard Williams?
As someone said both are starting QBs. I'm sure you would have given Jones a break if he were selected in the 2nd round, GTFO.
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Jones was the 6th.
As someone said both are starting QBs. I'm sure you would have given Jones a break if he were selected in the 2nd round, GTFO.
I would still want him to play well - sure.
However, I would have a different perspective/expectations because of the investment made. And I would imagine you would too...unless you are being totally disingeuous.
So what? You can’t be objective.
I'm sure if Matt Peart got Daniel Jones injured no one would be like "it's ok he was a 3rd round pick". At a certain point either you're the guy or you're not.
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The pick status is an evaluation criteria for Gettleman, not Jones.
Using a criteria not in his control to evaluate the player makes no sense. Should we also evaluate Jones based on how much Logan Ryan’s contract was extended for?
Pick status and opportunity costs matter for roster building. That’s the GM’s job.
DJ’s job is make plays on the field where they’re there to be made and reduce errors. Everyone said he needs to make a jump his 3rd year. So far, so good. Yay?
So you expect Austin Johnson to be as productive as Leonard Williams?
Is Austin Johnson is not productive it has far fewer ramifications than if a QB1 isn't productive, complete apples and oranges. And if Austin Johnson isn't productive you look to replace him with someone who is more productive next year, you don't just say "oh well he wasn't a high draft pick".
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The pick status is an evaluation criteria for Gettleman, not Jones.
Using a criteria not in his control to evaluate the player makes no sense. Should we also evaluate Jones based on how much Logan Ryan’s contract was extended for?
Pick status and opportunity costs matter for roster building. That’s the GM’s job.
DJ’s job is make plays on the field where they’re there to be made and reduce errors. Everyone said he needs to make a jump his 3rd year. So far, so good. Yay?
So you expect Austin Johnson to be as productive as Leonard Williams?
This is a stupid question/comparison. Nobody expects Johnson to be as. Productive as Williams because Williams has proven over several seasons to be a much, much better player. It has nothing to do with where they were drafted. Most of the planet probably doesn’t even know where Johnson was drafted without looking it up. I wouldn’t expect Johnson to be as productive as Snacks Harrison was either. Snacks was a UDFA.
Williams is now one of the highest paid defensive players in the league. So we should expected him to be a better player than Johnson. True?
A first rounder like Jones, meanwhile and again, should be expected to be better than a late second rounder like Hurts. I find it remarkable that anyone would dispute that.
If you have $20K and use $17K to buy Apple and $3K to buy a riskier tech start-up, I would imagine you would expect Apple to perform better. But if the start-up really hits, great, but it was lower up front risk...
Part of the reason the Giants have sucked for so long is the in ability to draft impact first round picks from 2012-2016 (OBJ aside).
So of course a QB drafted in the first round is going to have more scrutiny and more expectations on them than a guy in the later rounds.
It’s perfectly fine to call out posters who claimed Hurts was as good as Jones. Keep it to that.
But unraveling the basics of the system to make a point is weird.
Part of the reason the Giants have sucked for so long is the in ability to draft impact first round picks from 2012-2016 (OBJ aside).
So of course a QB drafted in the first round is going to have more scrutiny and more expectations on them than a guy in the later rounds.
More scrutiny, should not get in the way of objectivity. Eli was a very successful NFL quarterback, possible a first ballot HOF.
But he was the number # 1 overall pick, and has been outperformed by some others drafted much lower, does that diminish what he did, I don’t think so.
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Do people really think there isn't an expectation difference based on where you are drafted? The odds of hitting on productive players drops precipitously after the first round. Therefore it is critical to hit on early round picks and why they receive so much scrutiny.
Part of the reason the Giants have sucked for so long is the in ability to draft impact first round picks from 2012-2016 (OBJ aside).
So of course a QB drafted in the first round is going to have more scrutiny and more expectations on them than a guy in the later rounds.
More scrutiny, should not get in the way of objectivity. Eli was a very successful NFL quarterback, possible a first ballot HOF.
But he was the number # 1 overall pick, and has been outperformed by some others drafted much lower, does that diminish what he did, I don’t think so.
Everyone in the league would sign up for a first round QB, especially first pick, winning two super bowls and being a future HOFer.
He basically lived up to the expectations or even exceeded them at his draft slot. No one is saying that a sixth round pick that exceeds the HOF production of a first rounder diminishes the production of that first rounder, rather the sixth rounder FAR exceeded the expectations of his draft position.
Williams is now one of the highest paid defensive players in the league. So we should expected him to be a better player than Johnson. True?
A first rounder like Jones, meanwhile and again, should be expected to be better than a late second rounder like Hurts. I find it remarkable that anyone would dispute that.
If you have $20K and use $17K to buy Apple and $3K to buy a riskier tech start-up, I would imagine you would expect Apple to perform better. But if the start-up really hits, great, but it was lower up front risk...
This is NOT what your very first post insinuated. You used the round a player was picked as an excuse for their poor attributes when in reality that’s a poor attribute for any player regardless of where they were drafted and how much they cost.
Expectations for Jones being better than Hurts based on where they were drafted is warranted. But you used it to excuse poor play.
Williams is now one of the highest paid defensive players in the league. So we should expected him to be a better player than Johnson. True?
A first rounder like Jones, meanwhile and again, should be expected to be better than a late second rounder like Hurts. I find it remarkable that anyone would dispute that.
If you have $20K and use $17K to buy Apple and $3K to buy a riskier tech start-up, I would imagine you would expect Apple to perform better. But if the start-up really hits, great, but it was lower up front risk...
Dwayne Haskins was a higher pick than a ton of QBs who had far better careers. Are we not supposed to adjust our expectations for him years out?
I guess someone else’s grass is always midnight greener.