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Defensive line got steamrolled again

Ten Ton Hammer : 10/10/2021 7:47 pm
Shelton stinks but it's probably time to put some heat on dexter lawrence and leonard williams.

185 yards rushing allowed
Dex and Williams combined for 5 tackles and half a sack.

Austin Johnson had 3 tackles and 1 sack.
 
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/10/2021 7:48 pm : link
Shelton is cooked.

Dex  
Dave in PA : 10/10/2021 7:48 pm : link
Has been a disappointment, no way around it. Not a bad pick, was worth the selection, just not differentiating himself anywhere near his Clemson days.
It's  
Toth029 : 10/10/2021 7:48 pm : link
A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.
We need a DT  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/10/2021 7:50 pm : link
The bigger question is are these 3 man fronts conducive to the talent
Toth029  
bc4life : 10/10/2021 7:50 pm : link
LBs are an issue. major issue.

I've been saying for awhile now..  
prdave73 : 10/10/2021 7:50 pm : link
This team is built wrong. DG is a horrible GM.
They have ignored the LB's, DLine, and Oline for how long now?? Meanwhile the Cowboys shore up on LB's, get a great DB in the "DRAFT" in Diggs! As well as shoring up on the Oline which is what every great that has success do!
Lines of Scrimmage  
bc4life : 10/10/2021 7:51 pm : link
who would the defensive ends be?
RE: It's  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/10/2021 7:52 pm : link
In comment 15406756 Toth029 said:
Quote:
A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.


I would agree with you except that they're not paying Williams to just eat double teams and allow their awful LBs to play.
Wrong  
Joey in VA : 10/10/2021 7:52 pm : link
It was the LBs today and Patrick Graham. We still played a lot of two DL two LB fronts and no one was able to set the edge.
RE: It's  
Eman11 : 10/10/2021 7:52 pm : link
In comment 15406756 Toth029 said:
Quote:
A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.


Totally agree. They’ve got shit for ILB’s right now. No question in my mind if we had a Devin White type we’d be singing the praises of Dex and Leo.

Plus Dex is constantly taking on double teams and honestly doesn’t get near the amount of O holding calls against him as he should be getting.
Yep...we miss somebody we let go and kept  
Blue21 : 10/10/2021 7:53 pm : link
the "best blowout by the 4th qtr start making plays TE". Cause the coaching staff loves the way he practices.
DG signed up Golladay for a huge contract  
prdave73 : 10/10/2021 7:53 pm : link
knowing he is injury prone??!! Who does that?? He pulled another Solder move???! Come on.. This Gianst Organization is crap from the bottom to the top!
Yup Tomlinson was important  
bluewave : 10/10/2021 7:54 pm : link
After everyone on BBI saying he can easily replaced....
RE: Yup Tomlinson was important  
BillT : 10/10/2021 7:56 pm : link
In comment 15406829 bluewave said:
Quote:
After everyone on BBI saying he can easily replaced....

Not me. And we could have kept him for less than what we are paying Engram.
RE: It's  
AcidTest : 10/10/2021 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15406756 Toth029 said:
Quote:
A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.


^This. Our LBs cannot pursue or set the edge.
The linebackers have stunk for 5 games aside from Martinez  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/10/2021 8:03 pm : link
Does it make sense to expect them to set the edge at this point? T
RE: RE: Yup Tomlinson was important  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 10/10/2021 8:07 pm : link
In comment 15406841 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15406829 bluewave said:


Quote:


After everyone on BBI saying he can easily replaced....


Not me. And we could have kept him for less than what we are paying Engram.


I'm also with you as a not me. The other players on the defense all said that Tomlinson did all the dirty work that allowed them to play well. And we are seeing how right they were.
Waiting  
ajr2456 : 10/10/2021 8:07 pm : link
For the weekly Chase Young thread from this board
RE: It's  
ajr2456 : 10/10/2021 8:08 pm : link
In comment 15406756 Toth029 said:
Quote:
A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.


Then why did we pay Leonard Williams $25 million a year?
The guy who deserves heat is Gettleman.  
Red Dog : 10/10/2021 8:09 pm : link
He let Tomlinson, a very good nose tackle, walk away but kept that worthless piece of shit Engram.

Should have been the other way around.

I've had enough of Gettleman. Given him more than enough rope to hang himself, and he's done it.
I was banging the drum to keep Tomlinson in FA  
Rick in Dallas : 10/10/2021 8:10 pm : link
The DL was a strength last last year with DT now it is a weakness.
RE: Dex  
Jay on the Island : 10/10/2021 8:11 pm : link
In comment 15406755 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Has been a disappointment, no way around it. Not a bad pick, was worth the selection, just not differentiating himself anywhere near his Clemson days.

I loved the pick but I wish the Giants took Montez Sweat there instead. Lawrence hasn’t taken the big step forward that I expected this year,
RE: Toth029  
dlauster : 10/10/2021 8:12 pm : link
In comment 15406778 bc4life said:
Quote:
LBs are an issue. major issue.


My god we’ve been saying this for so long.

And yet it remains true.
I am very pro-Graham...  
bw in dc : 10/10/2021 8:12 pm : link
but if the board wants to fire Garrett every ten minutes, they should be just as motivated to remove Graham.

Because he's just as responsible for the 1-4 record as Garrett. If not more...
Over 30 years since this team had a great lber Corp  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/10/2021 8:13 pm : link
And haven't drafted a great lber since Armstead. They can't set the edge and the safeties and corners are making the stop down field. Same reason tes gah this team across the middle. Terrible linebacker play for years no edge presence
RE: It's  
islander1 : 10/10/2021 8:15 pm : link
In comment 15406756 Toth029 said:
Quote:
A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.


Exactly.
Graham is a puzzle this year  
bc4life : 10/10/2021 8:18 pm : link
Martinez loss was big, but defense should be further along
The entire defense is a colossal failure  
GiantsFan84 : 10/10/2021 8:24 pm : link
None of the high priced talent are performing to expectations.
1st round pick on a DT from  
Carl in CT : 10/10/2021 8:24 pm : link
Clemson who is just another guy at best
Noone  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/10/2021 8:28 pm : link
Can set an edge its awful
RE: 1st round pick on a DT from  
Angel Eyes : 10/10/2021 8:29 pm : link
In comment 15407010 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Clemson who is just another guy at best

What were the Giants looking for with Lawrence? When you draft a DT or 3-4 defensive end you draft him to be Bruce Smith (3-4 end) or Bob Lilly (4-3 tackle), not someone like Eric Dorsey.

Or was it all because of the hog mollies?
RE: RE: 1st round pick on a DT from  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/10/2021 8:30 pm : link
In comment 15407039 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15407010 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Clemson who is just another guy at best


What were the Giants looking for with Lawrence? When you draft a DT or 3-4 defensive end you draft him to be Bruce Smith (3-4 end) or Bob Lilly (4-3 tackle), not someone like Eric Dorsey.

Or was it all because of the hog mollies?


They thought they could coach him into a pass rusher and make him a complete DT.
Williams  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/10/2021 8:43 pm : link
Needs to be more for his salary. Desperate signing by a desperate GM.

Back to the drawing board.
RE: Lines of Scrimmage  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/10/2021 8:43 pm : link
In comment 15406788 bc4life said:
Quote:
who would the defensive ends be?


I’m not a defense guy but this D’ is not working. I guess I’m thinking if your LB’s stink then get less on the field. They need to try something.
I was really excited to go to a 3-4  
j_rud : 10/10/2021 8:50 pm : link
but it's been an unmitigated disaster. They went to an odd front and dumped more resourced into the line than the LBers and have yet to find a consistent pass rush threat.

At least we have a talented and deep secondary. Our safeties remind me of the old adage about QBs: when you have 4, you have none.
RE: I was really excited to go to a 3-4  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/10/2021 8:52 pm : link
In comment 15407130 j_rud said:
Quote:
but it's been an unmitigated disaster. They went to an odd front and dumped more resourced into the line than the LBers and have yet to find a consistent pass rush threat.

At least we have a talented and deep secondary. Our safeties remind me of the old adage about QBs: when you have 4, you have none.


They never even tried to build it right. They started with zero LBs when they switched to a 3-4, blew money on Ogletree, then when that failed they paid for Martinez and never put much emphasis on the other 4 LB spots. Drafted project OLBs and stuck a 7th round pick at the other ILB spot.

Carter made one play today  
Simms11 : 10/10/2021 8:56 pm : link
then where’d he go? Ojulari shows some promise and hopefully he turns out to be a decent Edge for us, but he also disappeared. Other then Martinez and Ojulari, we’ve got nothing at LBer. We also need a NT. A Johnson has done ok, but we need a beast in the middle to help keep LBers clean.
It's amazing just how much the level of play from the defense  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/10/2021 8:58 pm : link
has fallen off in just ONE season. And we pretty much kept the entire defensive roster from last year, and the DC who was absolutely fantastic last year.

It's incredible, really.
RE: RE: I was really excited to go to a 3-4  
j_rud : 10/10/2021 9:01 pm : link
In comment 15407142 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15407130 j_rud said:


Quote:


but it's been an unmitigated disaster. They went to an odd front and dumped more resourced into the line than the LBers and have yet to find a consistent pass rush threat.

At least we have a talented and deep secondary. Our safeties remind me of the old adage about QBs: when you have 4, you have none.



They never even tried to build it right. They started with zero LBs when they switched to a 3-4, blew money on Ogletree, then when that failed they paid for Martinez and never put much emphasis on the other 4 LB spots. Drafted project OLBs and stuck a 7th round pick at the other ILB spot.


In terms of roster/team building it hard to find a plan they executed well in the past 5 years.
RE: It's  
giantstock : 10/10/2021 9:03 pm : link
In comment 15406756 Toth029 said:
Quote:
A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.


Wrong.

They also have a job to make tackles.

Last year Dexter had 23 through the 1st games. This year he has 13.
With the exception of Shelton  
OlyWABigBlue : 10/10/2021 9:03 pm : link
The front three grouping was serviceable. There was no edge set by the OLBs and the ILB were slow to read and fill. The Cowboys kept rolling the run game to the side Ojulari was on to start. Although Carter is not a dynamic pass rusher, he had been stout on the edge in previous gmes, but today was not a good game yet he was much better than Ojulari or Ximenes. Crowder and Ragland are the very definition of fungible. Given the scheme, the big guys did most of the dirty work but there wasn't enough talent to in the LB spots to make the plays that were needed in the run game.
RE: RE: It's  
giantstock : 10/10/2021 9:04 pm : link
In comment 15407174 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15406756 Toth029 said:


Quote:


A 3-4. It's the lines job to give the inside and outside backers room to operate and make plays.

Look who plays ILB. There you go.



Wrong.

They also have a job to make tackles.

Last year Dexter had 23 through the 1st games. This year he has 13.


Meant to say-

Last year Dexter had 23 through the 1st 5 games. This year he has 13.
RE: With the exception of Shelton  
giantstock : 10/10/2021 9:07 pm : link
In comment 15407175 OlyWABigBlue said:
Quote:
. Although Carter is not a dynamic pass rusher, he had been stout on the edge in previous gmes,


Not sure--

But I think what you're saying about Carter is wrong. I think he has ben poor setting the edge but could be wrong.

I don't believe any OLB has bene good setting the edge, never mind "stout."
Semantics on verbage I suppose  
OlyWABigBlue : 10/10/2021 9:14 pm : link
but Carter could at least set and edge, stout or loose. On several of the plays this game and against the Saints, Ojulari just crashed down and I didn't see any outside or safety support. It's a low bar, but of what we have, Carter has been the best of the group at at least defining the edge and turning runs in. Carter is not a difference maker but would be a reasonable depth piece. Hopefully Ojulari will get better in the run game, he is just a rook.
RE: Semantics on verbage I suppose  
giantstock : 10/10/2021 9:26 pm : link
In comment 15407218 OlyWABigBlue said:
Quote:
but Carter could at least set and edge, stout or loose. On several of the plays this game and against the Saints, Ojulari just crashed down and I didn't see any outside or safety support. It's a low bar, but of what we have, Carter has been the best of the group at at least defining the edge and turning runs in. Carter is not a difference maker but would be a reasonable depth piece. Hopefully Ojulari will get better in the run game, he is just a rook.


TO me whne I hear "stout" it means "Very good."

The reason why I replied if I felt Carter was close to being "very good" then it wouldn't have mattered.

But he isn't. He's subpar (and he gets no rush to boot though that wasn't our discussion.). So on other threads my point is to trade down and get as much help in the front 7 on defense, get an OL, and need a Tight End, and need a RB.

SO far, imo, Carter is not good at anything. Adn imo he doesn't set the Edge good at all. He's subpar.
RE: RE: I was really excited to go to a 3-4  
Angel Eyes : 10/10/2021 9:28 pm : link
In comment 15407142 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15407130 j_rud said:


Quote:


but it's been an unmitigated disaster. They went to an odd front and dumped more resourced into the line than the LBers and have yet to find a consistent pass rush threat.

At least we have a talented and deep secondary. Our safeties remind me of the old adage about QBs: when you have 4, you have none.



They never even tried to build it right. They started with zero LBs when they switched to a 3-4, blew money on Ogletree, then when that failed they paid for Martinez and never put much emphasis on the other 4 LB spots. Drafted project OLBs and stuck a 7th round pick at the other ILB spot.

I wasn't excited about the shift to a 3-4 from a 4-3, having grown up during Strahan's mid-to-late prime years (with Hammer as his inside running mate and Umenyiora as a later outside parter), then the Nascar pass rush with four defensive ends. I'd suggest switching back to a 4-3 and double-dipping on edge in the draft but then I'd hear about the importance of the amoeba defense.

Gettleman's such a hypocrite. Says rushing the passer is one of his core pieces then doesn't bother getting good pieces for one until possibly this year if Ojulari pans out.

RE: I was really excited to go to a 3-4  
ColHowPepper : 10/11/2021 9:30 am : link
In comment 15407265 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
Gettleman's such a hypocrite. Says rushing the passer is one of his core pieces then doesn't bother getting good pieces for one until possibly this year if Ojulari pans out.
Rookies who are good football players don't require years and years to demonstrate if they are, in fact, good football players; that latter is one of the memes BBI convinces itself that failing draft picks are good, they just need time. It's an extension of the 'scholarship' mentality. Rookies, IF they can play, will of course make mistakes but make their presence felt. Haven't seen a lot of presence from Ojulari aside from a play or two per game. Based on early returns, it doesn't look to me that Ojulari is going to be a whole lot more impactful than Carter. But it's early!!
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