And specials? You expect a kicker of Gano’s stature to make a 54 yarder indoors early in the game. Dixon with another 40 yard punt and no positive momentum plays to speak of.
This was all on the D. When shit goes south you need everyone to step up. When our teammates needed help from the D, our D just turned around, dropped their pants, and said, "Thank you, may I have another."
I'll call it 6. LG and C are our starters going forward and we won with those players last week so I'd take them out of the equation.
In-game injuries are a killer, it's not like the staff could install a game plan for a completely different personnel group. It took them a few series to find a way to move the ball but at that point, it's tough to catch up.
If they come into this season with some fire and take it more seriously they might have been able to actually beat Washington and Atlanta. Then we would be sitting at 3-2 with 3-4 or 3-5 being records that you can recover from down the stretch as people start filtering back from injuries. Instead we are looking at 1-6 or 1-7 and the team likely quitting on the coach and the entire organization tanking back to square 1.
This was all on the D. When shit goes south you need everyone to step up. When our teammates needed help from the D, our D just turned around, dropped their pants, and said, "Thank you, may I have another."
Can't argue with that. The Bradbury dropped int was a killer. Papa and Banks were killing him.
if youre only watching football with a ‘championship or I’m miserable’ approach, youre missing out on a whole lot to root for and draw spirit and inspiration from. it’s great to watch these men fight. i hope they get some more wins for our collective sake. im rooting for them.
So are we going to give Gettleman another pass because of the injuries? What conversation are you looking for? I still like Joe Judge. Team played hard. Injuries suck. Giants 19-50 for since 2017. Where 8 starters on offense out for the last four years?
I can't remember the last time I've seen a Giants team not worth rooting for. There is very little to like about this team, especially today with Jones out. The D is just flat out embarrassing. You see punches being thrown, helmets getting ripped off, etc. Absolutely pathetic.
I can't remember the last time I've seen a Giants team not worth rooting for. There is very little to like about this team, especially today with Jones out. The D is just flat out embarrassing. You see punches being thrown, helmets getting ripped off, etc. Absolutely pathetic.
they're dull. which is a worse sin than being bad.
from Graham on down should be embarrassed with their play this season. The offense needs more talent but it was likely it would struggle with so little work together during the preseason.
A lot of injury issues on O, and the OL is really patchwork.
But let's start with the line.
The depth from training camp was atrocious.
Golladay was a injury concern when we signed him.
Barkley was coming off a major injury and the depth was questionable in Training camp they could have done a better job looking for a strong backups (kept 2 FBs?)
We stack depth at WR based on special team players.
We will see what Mike Glennon brings to the table (Jones has missed games before) I believe there was better back up talent available.
Like others have said the defense is a major reason for how bad this team is
if youre only watching football with a ‘championship or I’m miserable’ approach, youre missing out on a whole lot to root for and draw spirit and inspiration from. it’s great to watch these men fight. i hope they get some more wins for our collective sake. im rooting for them.
"Championship or I'm miserable? This team hasn't been above .500 at literally any time since 2016.
It's delusion to see this as anything other than a disastrous organization at the moment. Stop lying to yourself.
But this is why the Washington and Atlanta games were so devastating. The schedule does not get easier and until last week, the giants injury luck wasn’t any worse than the rest of the league. Ik a lot of us here live in a bubble with the Giants but a few unproven interior lineman over the first few weeks isn’t bad luck, that’s standard. Now the schedule ramps up and the injury luck is actually going the wrong way. They buried themselves with mistakes the first month and it’s too much to overcome now.
and the situation is hopeless with a unit that bad. The D needs to turn it around because otherwise any progress the offense is made is just treading water because we’re looking at a complete rebuild of the defense from scratch.
How many above average players do we have on defense? Leonard Williams and who else? We’re well into year of 4 Gettleman and the unit lacks talent everywhere.
Well you have to take into account that if the Offense can't extend drives that's going to exhaust the D as well as giving the other teams O more chances
They also went 1-3 versus the easiest part of the schedule
Well you have to take into account that if the Offense can't extend drives that's going to exhaust the D as well as giving the other teams O more chances
Valid point, I think when DJ went down 99% of the fans knew it was a wrap even though it was 10-10. Regardless NYG Defense for 2021 has been extremely concerning and not the shut down defense many expected
Serious question: did you watch the game? The D didn't give up 44. Glennon threw a pick 6. Also, you said Judge benched Toney even though he was ejected.
How many teams went into the season with the strategy, "pray for offensive line health?"
Because that's essentially what the Giants did. Went in with Thomas, Lemeuix, Gates, Hernadez, Solder, and Peart. The whole plan was to have these guys take a step forward but it didn't really seem like they planned on getting injuries along the line with no depth signing. Look at the scramble they have had to do since camp.
Pray for health is not an effective strategy and should be a fireable offense on it's own.
at successful teams and you will find those with good defense and ability to run the ball virtually at will, are amongst the best teams in the league.
Our running game is a shambles as is our defense. That’s why there’s all this horrid whining and pissing about DG, JJ, etc etc.
Huh? This is a passing league. Not a running league. Teams who prioritize run over pass, lose. That's the problem with the Giants. They are stuck in the *run the ball / stout defense paradigm*. It no longer works. And the losing continues.
Nobody should have been expecting a win under these circumstances against a good Dallas team.
However, there is another way to look at this.
When the offense was at full strength, it is not like they were lighting up the scoreboard. I think it is safe to say that on average the offense underperformed, their ppg was well below the average.
What does it tell you about the starters, when there is not a major falloff in performance when 8 or 11 go down with injury? It tells me that the average player on offense is not performing much better than replacement level players.
Although I will say that Toney does not look like a replacement level player out there. He is going to Wally Pipp somebody.
Nobody should have been expecting a win under these circumstances against a good Dallas team.
However, there is another way to look at this.
When the offense was at full strength, it is not like they were lighting up the scoreboard. I think it is safe to say that on average the offense underperformed, their ppg was well below the average.
What does it tell you about the starters, when there is not a major falloff in performance when 8 or 11 go down with injury? It tells me that the average player on offense is not performing much better than replacement level players.
Although I will say that Toney does not look like a replacement level player out there. He is going to Wally Pipp somebody.
I agree with this and like to add that this is exactly why going 1-3 in the easy part of the schedule was inexcusable. (And why Judge's insistence that the first quarter of the season is basically an extrended preseason is fucking asinine and a firable offense all by itself).
This is an INSANE amount of starting offensive players out. You had no chance here regardless of defense being terrible.
The biggest problem is losing two winnable games against mediocre to bad teams. I am still ok with Judge but the whole “the first four weeks are an extension of preseason” backfired badly. Now with everyone out for god knows how long you’re in big trouble. Obviously.
RE: It’s kind of beyond “every team has injuries!”
This is an INSANE amount of starting offensive players out. You had no chance here regardless of defense being terrible.
The biggest problem is losing two winnable games against mediocre to bad teams. I am still ok with Judge but the whole “the first four weeks are an extension of preseason” backfired badly. Now with everyone out for god knows how long you’re in big trouble. Obviously.
The Ravens have lost nearly every RB on their roster. Starting corner and countless other players and seem to make it work.
RE: RE: It’s kind of beyond “every team has injuries!”
This is an INSANE amount of starting offensive players out. You had no chance here regardless of defense being terrible.
The biggest problem is losing two winnable games against mediocre to bad teams. I am still ok with Judge but the whole “the first four weeks are an extension of preseason” backfired badly. Now with everyone out for god knows how long you’re in big trouble. Obviously.
The Ravens have lost nearly every RB on their roster. Starting corner and countless other players and seem to make it work.
Well imagine being a well-run and well-drafting organization. Our owner likes GMs and coaches who talk like it's the 1980s. It is what it is at this point.
They win last week and (most) everyone is kind of happy with that. Ask yourself-if you knew ahead of time that Thomas, Barkley, Jones AND Golladay would be out-could they possibly win? You’d say no, definitely not.
And yet, it’s complete doom and gloom when they lose. It was 10-10 when the Jones injury occurred. Now how long these guys are out makes a difference, and by no means is 1-4 a good thing, but with everyone in the lineup we could have had a scary offense.
This isn’t just losing 3 rbs (when you have an incredible o line
and rushing offense to begin with like Baltimore). You literally do not have 2 starting WRS (3 if you count Slayton), a borderline all pro left tackle, your own starting RB, your STARTING QB, I mean come on. Maybe it’s an organizational problem that everyone gets hurt all the time but to say “every other team makes that work” is complete BS.
And I won’t even mention losing Martinez and Peppers because I think that the defense would have sucked anyway. That’s an entirely different problem itself.
Why didn’t Garrett get him the ball at the beginning of the game. He looks like a player that can get the defense back on its heels plus it gives DJ time to get into the flow of the game with shorter passes.
This was all on the D. When shit goes south you need everyone to step up. When our teammates needed help from the D, our D just turned around, dropped their pants, and said, "Thank you, may I have another."
The defense does suck but they are also missing their best player (Martinez) and the second best guy (Bradberry) has forgotten how to play corner. And someone tell me why the hell we signed Jackson? His biggest play so far was a missed INT.
Wonder how many interviews PG gets after this season.
The injuries have officially made the team non-competitive. You can only withstand so much.
Even the week 1 ass kicking - the Giants were in no position to compete due to injuries. (Rusty guys returning to the lineup with no practice time.)
It sucks, but the Football Gods don't care if you need to make evaluations. This has been a lost year to injuries.
That said - I hope it doesn't mean a free pass for the coaching staff. Even if the Giants are committed to Judge another year, I think it's time to replace both coordinators. I think we understand now why Graham was allowed to leave without a fight. He wasn't all that important a piece.
Not allowing 40 points would be nice though. Losses don't have to be beat downs.
Yeah, well, that is an issue with the defense which has not played well all year, and has nothing to do with losing 8 starters on offense. They have lost Martinez and that hurts. But overall, the defense is healthy compare to the offense. The defense has no excuse at all.
Are about a whole hell of a lot more than just yesterday. Yesterday was just one of those make or break type games and they not only broke but shattered. People are fed up. It’s been a gigantic failure for almost a decade straight at this point
We need to take the view from a higher orbit for a clearer picture. We have collective tunnel vision on BBI. When you isolate a play, quarter, single game, decision, draft pick....
Anything.
As long you as you make it narrow and specific you can argue the rationale behind it and find something that you can argue.
Instead.
Take last 10 years as a whole.
56 wins vs 93 losses.
The only conclusion is a complete and total organizational failure.
Not allowing 40 points would be nice though. Losses don't have to be beat downs.
Yeah, well, that is an issue with the defense which has not played well all year, and has nothing to do with losing 8 starters on offense. They have lost Martinez and that hurts. But overall, the defense is healthy compare to the offense. The defense has no excuse at all.
Yes they do.
Their entire LB core sucks. Their NT sucks. Half your defense right from the get go sucks. This means "no mistakes" from every other player. How many are "great" that won't have a few misatkes?
Depth matters; you can't free agent sign your way out of bad drafting becasue then you end up with paper thin depth. The teams that can overcome injuries the best are the teams that will succeed.
They win last week and (most) everyone is kind of happy with that. Ask yourself-if you knew ahead of time that Thomas, Barkley, Jones AND Golladay would be out-could they possibly win? You’d say no, definitely not.
And yet, it’s complete doom and gloom when they lose. It was 10-10 when the Jones injury occurred. Now how long these guys are out makes a difference, and by no means is 1-4 a good thing, but with everyone in the lineup we could have had a scary offense.
Other than Thomas, which of those guys doesn't have an extensive injury history?
You know something? You should find something else to do. This can't be healthy for you.
And don’t forget specials.
And specials? You expect a kicker of Gano’s stature to make a 54 yarder indoors early in the game. Dixon with another 40 yard punt and no positive momentum plays to speak of.
In-game injuries are a killer, it's not like the staff could install a game plan for a completely different personnel group. It took them a few series to find a way to move the ball but at that point, it's tough to catch up.
We are the new browns.
Can't argue with that. The Bradbury dropped int was a killer. Papa and Banks were killing him.
But losing at home to Denver in the opener and to Atlanta is unacceptable for a team that wants to be taken seriously.
This team is a disaster and another reboot is almost upon us.
But losing at home to Denver in the opener and to Atlanta is unacceptable for a team that wants to be taken seriously.
This team is a disaster and another reboot is almost upon us.
I like Toney and Thomas. That's about it.
they're dull. which is a worse sin than being bad.
No. The offense isn't good enough. It's an offense league. All defenses get torched at some point.
A lot of injury issues on O, and the OL is really patchwork.
The depth from training camp was atrocious.
Golladay was a injury concern when we signed him.
Barkley was coming off a major injury and the depth was questionable in Training camp they could have done a better job looking for a strong backups (kept 2 FBs?)
We stack depth at WR based on special team players.
We will see what Mike Glennon brings to the table (Jones has missed games before) I believe there was better back up talent available.
Like others have said the defense is a major reason for how bad this team is
"Championship or I'm miserable? This team hasn't been above .500 at literally any time since 2016.
It's delusion to see this as anything other than a disastrous organization at the moment. Stop lying to yourself.
How many above average players do we have on defense? Leonard Williams and who else? We’re well into year of 4 Gettleman and the unit lacks talent everywhere.
Well you have to take into account that if the Offense can't extend drives that's going to exhaust the D as well as giving the other teams O more chances
You just don't get the sport do you?
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with them either. In case you hadn't noticed.
You know something? You should find something else to do. This can't be healthy for you.
Ignore him, he is obviously a troll/dupe.
If not I truly feel sorry for him.
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What’s your excuse for them? Sick post
Well you have to take into account that if the Offense can't extend drives that's going to exhaust the D as well as giving the other teams O more chances
Valid point, I think when DJ went down 99% of the fans knew it was a wrap even though it was 10-10. Regardless NYG Defense for 2021 has been extremely concerning and not the shut down defense many expected
Serious question: did you watch the game? The D didn't give up 44. Glennon threw a pick 6. Also, you said Judge benched Toney even though he was ejected.
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That has been a major them this year.
No. The offense isn't good enough. It's an offense league. All defenses get torched at some point.
Because that's essentially what the Giants did. Went in with Thomas, Lemeuix, Gates, Hernadez, Solder, and Peart. The whole plan was to have these guys take a step forward but it didn't really seem like they planned on getting injuries along the line with no depth signing. Look at the scramble they have had to do since camp.
Pray for health is not an effective strategy and should be a fireable offense on it's own.
Not to mention, half of those "starters" would be backups on a good roster.
Our running game is a shambles as is our defense. That’s why there’s all this horrid whining and pissing about DG, JJ, etc etc.
Our running game is a shambles as is our defense. That’s why there’s all this horrid whining and pissing about DG, JJ, etc etc.
Huh? This is a passing league. Not a running league. Teams who prioritize run over pass, lose. That's the problem with the Giants. They are stuck in the *run the ball / stout defense paradigm*. It no longer works. And the losing continues.
However, there is another way to look at this.
When the offense was at full strength, it is not like they were lighting up the scoreboard. I think it is safe to say that on average the offense underperformed, their ppg was well below the average.
What does it tell you about the starters, when there is not a major falloff in performance when 8 or 11 go down with injury? It tells me that the average player on offense is not performing much better than replacement level players.
Although I will say that Toney does not look like a replacement level player out there. He is going to Wally Pipp somebody.
However, there is another way to look at this.
When the offense was at full strength, it is not like they were lighting up the scoreboard. I think it is safe to say that on average the offense underperformed, their ppg was well below the average.
What does it tell you about the starters, when there is not a major falloff in performance when 8 or 11 go down with injury? It tells me that the average player on offense is not performing much better than replacement level players.
Although I will say that Toney does not look like a replacement level player out there. He is going to Wally Pipp somebody.
I agree with this and like to add that this is exactly why going 1-3 in the easy part of the schedule was inexcusable. (And why Judge's insistence that the first quarter of the season is basically an extrended preseason is fucking asinine and a firable offense all by itself).
In case you hadn't noticed we haven't had a full healthy squad so far-- but don;t let that stop you from misrepresenting what is happening.
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with them either. In case you hadn't noticed.
In case you hadn't noticed we haven't had a full healthy squad so far-- but don;t let that stop you from misrepresenting what is happening.
Neither does every NFL team
The biggest problem is losing two winnable games against mediocre to bad teams. I am still ok with Judge but the whole “the first four weeks are an extension of preseason” backfired badly. Now with everyone out for god knows how long you’re in big trouble. Obviously.
The biggest problem is losing two winnable games against mediocre to bad teams. I am still ok with Judge but the whole “the first four weeks are an extension of preseason” backfired badly. Now with everyone out for god knows how long you’re in big trouble. Obviously.
The Ravens have lost nearly every RB on their roster. Starting corner and countless other players and seem to make it work.
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This is an INSANE amount of starting offensive players out. You had no chance here regardless of defense being terrible.
The biggest problem is losing two winnable games against mediocre to bad teams. I am still ok with Judge but the whole “the first four weeks are an extension of preseason” backfired badly. Now with everyone out for god knows how long you’re in big trouble. Obviously.
The Ravens have lost nearly every RB on their roster. Starting corner and countless other players and seem to make it work.
Well imagine being a well-run and well-drafting organization. Our owner likes GMs and coaches who talk like it's the 1980s. It is what it is at this point.
And yet, it’s complete doom and gloom when they lose. It was 10-10 when the Jones injury occurred. Now how long these guys are out makes a difference, and by no means is 1-4 a good thing, but with everyone in the lineup we could have had a scary offense.
And I won’t even mention losing Martinez and Peppers because I think that the defense would have sucked anyway. That’s an entirely different problem itself.
The defense does suck but they are also missing their best player (Martinez) and the second best guy (Bradberry) has forgotten how to play corner. And someone tell me why the hell we signed Jackson? His biggest play so far was a missed INT.
Wonder how many interviews PG gets after this season.
Even the week 1 ass kicking - the Giants were in no position to compete due to injuries. (Rusty guys returning to the lineup with no practice time.)
It sucks, but the Football Gods don't care if you need to make evaluations. This has been a lost year to injuries.
That said - I hope it doesn't mean a free pass for the coaching staff. Even if the Giants are committed to Judge another year, I think it's time to replace both coordinators. I think we understand now why Graham was allowed to leave without a fight. He wasn't all that important a piece.
Yeah, well, that is an issue with the defense which has not played well all year, and has nothing to do with losing 8 starters on offense. They have lost Martinez and that hurts. But overall, the defense is healthy compare to the offense. The defense has no excuse at all.
Anything.
As long you as you make it narrow and specific you can argue the rationale behind it and find something that you can argue.
Instead.
Take last 10 years as a whole.
56 wins vs 93 losses.
The only conclusion is a complete and total organizational failure.
There is no excuse.
Quote:
Not allowing 40 points would be nice though. Losses don't have to be beat downs.
Yeah, well, that is an issue with the defense which has not played well all year, and has nothing to do with losing 8 starters on offense. They have lost Martinez and that hurts. But overall, the defense is healthy compare to the offense. The defense has no excuse at all.
Yes they do.
Their entire LB core sucks. Their NT sucks. Half your defense right from the get go sucks. This means "no mistakes" from every other player. How many are "great" that won't have a few misatkes?
Many?
When have they done that? They have yet to break 30, which is the average of the top 10 offenses in the league.
They never score "many" and they rarely score "enough."
They were 0-1 when they lost Gates; 0-2 when they lost Martinez.
Maybe part of the problem is thinking that's the starting gate.
And yet, it’s complete doom and gloom when they lose. It was 10-10 when the Jones injury occurred. Now how long these guys are out makes a difference, and by no means is 1-4 a good thing, but with everyone in the lineup we could have had a scary offense.
Other than Thomas, which of those guys doesn't have an extensive injury history?