While Tomlinson never put up big numbers, he was always a solid performer in the run game. Most of the work he did never made the stat sheet, but when I look at last year’s defense compared to this years, it’s the only real change I see. Thoughts?
Bradberry and Leonard William playing like JAGs rather than an all
Was a lazy underachiever playing for the jets, now with the giants he has his big payday, and can settle into being a well paid underachieving bum who like david copperfield gets paid to disappear every Sunday!
absolutely yes. losing Tomlinson is why we can’t stop the run. Shelton
is not a replacement. Losing Martinez and Tomlinson would be a major hit for any defense in the NFL. I’m not sure that our DC is able to manage schemes on the fly, but the loss of personnel is big problem.
Whoever agreed with letting Tomlinson walk is who should be hearing from the screaming “meemies” that have been all over the site today.
A lot of people here have no idea how hard it is to get a good DT
level of play significantly like the rest of the team? He was a good player but I doubt he could carry the rest of the team and is the main reason this team is underperforming.
Because Tomlinson was a JAG until Leonard Williams came onto the scene.
The Giants defense had a better run rate than the Vikings did with Tomlinson. People are acting like losing him was like losing a player like Snacks inside. He was never that great of a player - heckuva guy, my goodness do people overrate him.
Look at the DB's. Talent wise, they're much better. But everyone looks worse. It's the scheme.
No - posters just looking to bury their heads in the sand
Think money would have been better spent on keeping him over A. Jackson. I also think losing Frackell was a big loss he did a lot of small things to help out the defense out and he and BM really improved our LBs last year. Crowder should only be out there on 3rd and long passing situations and he is now leading or LB Corps that should tell you all you need to know
The stupidity of fans saying Leonard Williams isn’t playing well
It amazes me how people just see what they want. Williams is playing just as well he isn’t getting the sack numbers but he’s playing great football. He isn’t a pass rusher. He’s a 3-4 DE. He’s doing his job and then some.
This season, teams had the off season to review the tape and adjust.
The lack of a pass rush is really difficult to overcome. We need a flawless secondary to compensate and our safeties and linebackers struggle in coverage. Bradberry has been struggling this season too.
This is a really poorly constructed roster on defense.
was just functioning better. It actually reminds me of 2016 when they got Honeymoon years from JackRabbit, OV & Snacks.
Last year it was Bradberry, Martinez, LW & Ryan having huge years. Graham has some self-inflicted wounds, too: Peppers was outstanding for him last year, I was shocked at how well he maintained position at SS.
This year? He's benched for Logan Ryan at SS, McKinney is handed the FS job (and stinks) and you don't hear a peep from the S's. You take your emotional leader on D, bench him when he was playing very well within your D. Brilliant. Everything this team does fails.
Without Martinez there’s not even a semblance of a LBer out there, nothing in the middle and nothing on the Edge. This is a freaking 3-4 Base Defense and LBers are supposed to be key to that D, not so here! Also we need a NT that can hold the blockers. AJohnson is ok, but doesn’t appear to do the dirty work of Tomlinson and Shelton is mystery for a guy his size!
I don't know that I would say he was the key last year
But, losing him is certainly a big reason they can't stop the run this year. I like Lawrence, but Tomlinson was a bog piece in the middle. And having Hill to rotate at DE was also big. They had a good rotation last year and in return good production. This year they aren't as deep and they aren't as good.
It amazes me how people just see what they want. Williams is playing just as well he isn’t getting the sack numbers but he’s playing great football. He isn’t a pass rusher. He’s a 3-4 DE. He’s doing his job and then some.
I fully recognize stats are not a bog part of his role and last year was an anomaly. But, that is exactly why a lot of people, myself included, were not in favor of a huge payday for him. That contract was based primarily on a sack total he was never likely to reproduce, which is dangerous. He needs to have 3 years of production like last year to justify the deal. So far, 5 weeks in, that just isn't happening.
I say this based on a lot more than sacks. He isn't disrupting the run game, he isn't getting penetration, he isn't getting consistent pressure. Not TFL. He is looking like a very ordinary DL. Maybe he and Tomlinson depended a lot on one another...but again, that would be a reason NOT to give him a ton of money and then let Tomlinson walk.
they are actually tied with NYG in both that and rushing TDs allowed. So I don't think that's the answer.
this is jmo but our run D has suffered year over year from a number of factors, 1 of which is the loss of Tomlinson. But also the completely different group of LB's. Fackrell is gone, Martinez is hurt, and Ojulari is promising but still a rookie. He makes the occasional play in the backfield but he is not an edge setter.
Dexter Lawrence hasn't stepped up enough since stuffing the run is supposed to be his forte, and I think we can close the book on Lorenzo Carter's breakout.
Whoever agreed with letting Tomlinson walk is who should be hearing from the screaming “meemies” that have been all over the site today.
People think, because DTs like Tomlinson don't get stats, that any big body can fill the position. They thought the same thing about Joseph.
I was hoping Lawrence would be able to step in but nope. He's been unimpressive.
Could be.....after so many game tapes....he finds tendencies that he exploited....as defense got better later in season.
The Giants defense had a better run rate than the Vikings did with Tomlinson. People are acting like losing him was like losing a player like Snacks inside. He was never that great of a player - heckuva guy, my goodness do people overrate him.
Look at the DB's. Talent wise, they're much better. But everyone looks worse. It's the scheme.
They lost BOTH Tomlinson AND AND AND
Martinez.
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We have to realize Martinez was terrific, and our other LB's suck.
AND AND AND we played some God-Awful teams in our division last year.
The lack of a pass rush is really difficult to overcome. We need a flawless secondary to compensate and our safeties and linebackers struggle in coverage. Bradberry has been struggling this season too.
This is a really poorly constructed roster on defense.
Last year it was Bradberry, Martinez, LW & Ryan having huge years. Graham has some self-inflicted wounds, too: Peppers was outstanding for him last year, I was shocked at how well he maintained position at SS.
This year? He's benched for Logan Ryan at SS, McKinney is handed the FS job (and stinks) and you don't hear a peep from the S's. You take your emotional leader on D, bench him when he was playing very well within your D. Brilliant. Everything this team does fails.
Big deal that DS can plus up his pot on the field - field is pretty wide, so there is a lot of area he won't have an impact on.
Shelton looks overweight.
LBers are a mess - when was last time Giants got good return return on investment on a drafted linebacker?
I say this based on a lot more than sacks. He isn't disrupting the run game, he isn't getting penetration, he isn't getting consistent pressure. Not TFL. He is looking like a very ordinary DL. Maybe he and Tomlinson depended a lot on one another...but again, that would be a reason NOT to give him a ton of money and then let Tomlinson walk.
this is jmo but our run D has suffered year over year from a number of factors, 1 of which is the loss of Tomlinson. But also the completely different group of LB's. Fackrell is gone, Martinez is hurt, and Ojulari is promising but still a rookie. He makes the occasional play in the backfield but he is not an edge setter.
Dexter Lawrence hasn't stepped up enough since stuffing the run is supposed to be his forte, and I think we can close the book on Lorenzo Carter's breakout.