I am as pissed as all of us are after 5 years of utterly sickening mediocrity. But, I don't get some of the "fire everybody" comments. I know we are so frustrated that it brings on the "anything can be better than this." But guess what....if we were to fire DG and JJ it would get worse (again) before it gets better. Meanwhile, I saw a team yesterday who's wheels came off against a really good Cowboys Team. But they fought, unlike in the Ben Mac era and they have a lot more talent then years past. I was at the PATs Giants 2019 game, we had zero for talent. Are they on the Cowboys, Chiefs,TB level, NO! Not close because they still have one HUGE flaw, NO PASS RUSH. But, their level of talent on the roster is improving including the OLine.
First, think back to Ben Mac's last year and Shurmur's 1st year. Those teams had little talent and I think we forgot just how bad they were. Remember the OLine with the likes of Spence Pulley getting ragdolled, an untouched John Greco falling on his face, Erik Flowers trying to trip C Campbell and Chad Wheeler uhh, nothing more needs to be said.... This OLine is not great, but the talent level has improved, a lot from that era! If somehow I. Wilson develops we have a good nucleus with 3 young, huge tackles.. Many of the Interior lineman we acquired this year are young. They will get better and we did not give up a lot for them.
The Defense has more holes than we thought but it is far more competitive then what we saw in the Shurmur years. Remember how confused the defense looked in the Shurmur era? But, the same issue rears its ugly head...no pass rush. This secondary is good, not great. It is not good enough to win without help. Consistent pressure, from 4 linemen, would help a lot. The #1 priority in this upcoming draft with two ones and two threes is PASS RUSH. Not OL.
Which bring us back to Dave Gettleman. Like him or not, he has improved the talent on our team and we are in position to add more with all the picks we have in April. Since taken over he has drafted a Quality starting QB, A competent left tackle, some good weapons in Barkley and Toney and overall depth. Some of his picks have disappointed but in general they have been solid. Some of his knee jerk FA signings have been poor but overall he has improved the talent level. Now we can all debate the roster construction which hasn't been great.
For the record, loosing Tomlinson, Fackrell and BJ Hill has hurt our pass rush.. Tomlinson was a good run stuffer and he was great at running stunts with L Williams. The other two did bring some pressure. They were not great pass rushers but they helped at times.
As far as the coach, when the Giants hired JJ they knew he was real young and he would need time to grow into being a Top notch head coach. He has made some glaring mistakes. But he has shown an ability to learn from them. Remember how bad Parcells was in 1983. He gets 3 years, that is the Giant's way. If you look at the franchises that switch coaches consistently they are usually perennial loosers. Sooner or later you got to pick a guy and take your lumps as he grows into the job. I do not see any young coaches on the horizon that sands out as an immediate upgrade.
Don't get me wrong, watching yesterdays game was painful. Our "Really BIG 3" DL got pushed around like ragdolls. But I sit here still thinking, "If we get healthy we will compete!" I could not say that 3 years ago.. Back then I saw little hope. GMEN fans, hang in there. I think this staff including Gettleman sees this rosters flaws. They needed to move on from Eli, it got done. They needed to address the OL, we got our left tackle and some good pieces. We need secondary help, it got done, we needed Offensive weapons, it got done. We are going in the right direction talentwise. Lets see if DG can get the pass rush issue solved. I really think correcting that one last glaring flaw will get us to turn the corner.
This has been a crazy year, I taught from home for 18 months, not what I expected in my 44th year (yes 44) of teaching. BBI HAS HELPED KEEP MY SANITY EVEN THOUGH THE TEAM HAS BEEN POOR.
When the time comes please remember to SUPPORT BBI WITH A DONATION AND THANK ERIC, SY AND ALL THAT MAKE THIS SIGHT SO GREAT.
SO...STAY SAFE AND HEALTHY....EDAVISIII
What we do know is that it will only get worse, and certainly NOT better, with Hog Mollie boy in charge.
The tackling has fallen off a cliff, and for some reason they took one of their better defensive players off the field (Peppers).
We were all psyched about Peppers after last year, he was very good at SS in Graham's D. And he gets benched for a paper tiger in McKinney.
I agree. It's maddening that our defense has gone backwards.
That said, it was a game until Barkley and DJ went out. Even then we were in it until the 4th quarter.
I mean, I am as pissed off and as frustrated as anybody.. but not sure how so many (not you BTW Robbie) think that it was going to be a game without Thomas, Jones, Barkley, And then Golladay. I was actually impressed that we stayed in it as long as we did, especially with Dallas getting calls we were not.
Fucking Bradberry. I think I am more upset with him than anyone else on the defense. He has really not played nearly to the level he did last season. And this is the second back breaking INT he has missed this season that was right in his hands. Maddening.
I agree. I'm not sure what people were expecting. I have watched some or all of every Dallas game this year, and their OL and running game has been off the hook. And Dak is no slouch, they are a really well balanced offense with a great OL (again). We knew we would need to score 30+ going in, which becomes likely impossible when your starting QB, RB, LT, etc. are out of the game.
I was expecting our DL to get manhandled and it did. Still painful though. It was a game until we lost a few more starters on offense. Even then I thought Glennon showed well as the backup.
I see that same rise of talent happening now despite the beat down from yesterday. I know we had so much hope coming in to this season which makes it worse. But, even the dallas HOmeboy, Troy Aikmen said the Giants have issues because the offense did not practice a lot together due to Covid, injuries etc.
Back to my point, if we fire everybody it won't help. It will just make the fan base feel better short term (Oh they are finally doing something) but it will not help in the long run.
I see that same rise of talent happening now despite the beat down from yesterday. I know we had so much hope coming in to this season which makes it worse. But, even the dallas HOmeboy, Troy Aikmen said the Giants have issues because the offense did not practice a lot together due to Covid, injuries etc.
Back to my point, if we fire everybody it won't help. It will just make the fan base feel better short term (Oh they are finally doing something) but it will not help in the long run.
The long run?
Is there anything that this current administration has done to give you ANY hope for the long run? Gettleman is a fucking bafoon who only cares about his agenda and the players he brings in. He's dying to sign his guys no matter the cost.
If you can't see that (as someone else mentioned earlier) I don't know what to tell you.
Maybe you're a better fan than I am.
1) Jones is only ok, and was way overdrafted at #6
2) The Barkley pick was an enormous mistake that has only gotten worse with time
3) ROSTER CONSTRUCTION IS HIS GODDAMN JOB
Gettleman completely blew his first off-season as GM, and the subsequent years haven't been that much better.
They are paying Leonard Williams like an impact player that he simply is not. The LB corps was weak even before the Martinez injury. The offensive line was thin and a huge question mark and he did nothing to address it this year, then shot off his mouth at critics who pointed that out.
Gettleman is a bad GM.
Get a forward thinking GM with no previous ties to the Giants to come in and clean house and I'll feel a billion times more confident about this club even if it takes a couple of years to turn around
1. There is no one in football's front offices who would have burned the #2 pick on a RB. It was done to help Eli and keep the team afloat but best case, you get a good five years out of the back. We are watching the worst case. That is one good year out of three.
2. Burning multiple first and second picks over multiple years on interior defensive linemen and then letting them leave when their rookie contract is up.
3. Hiring a head coach who has no coordinator or head coaching experience. Judge may or may not be a good coach but I doubt he does it here.
4. Hiring an out-of-date GM who laughs at analytics. Makes him and the franchise look stupid and he then goes and proves analytics is an important part of building a team these days so he says they will hire "computer guys."
The list is too long to continue but the bottom line, like his father before him, John Mara belongs nowhere near football operations. Rozell stepped in and made the warring Mara's hire George Young. We need something similar to that to happen again.
Judge might get another season. I really hate the idea of handcuffing a new GM to a coach and QB. The Giants need to bring in fresh ideas and
Philosophy from outside the building, someone who understands the modern NFL.
The Giants hold the NFL’s worst overall record since 2017. We have not had a winning record at any point in any season since 2017. That does not buy you an infinite amount of chances at GM. You are what your record says you are, and the Giants record says they are the worst team in the NFL.
Thanks! I owe it to Bugs Bunny & Looney Tunes.
He had to sign Leonard Williams. That was always going to happen. I never thought he was worth it. He's a good player, now we're paying him great player money. Could have been better spent IMO. But, that's my opinion. 10MM/year for Logan Ryan? Why? Because he's a cheerleader for you? Forget about Solder- he's a sunk cost by now. There's plenty more.
His plan to help Jones is backfiring. Spending resources on WR instead of OL is putting his high draft picks in jeopardy.
He HAS to go immediately.
And that is a damning statement for a professional sports organization.
time to take our lumps and start over with someone who knows how to construct a roster. DG doesn't. there is zero chance, ZERO CHANCE, that we sniff a Super Bowl with a team constructed by DG.
i'm ambivalent on Judge. But Judge has never been a (O or D) coordinator or HC, so i'm perfectly fine if we move on to somebody with more experience.
i'm also ambivalent on D. Jones. I'm rooting like hell for him to succeed. He's a tremendous athlete and an easy guy to root for. but if at the end of this year we're still debating DJ's potential, then I'm fine with moving on. I really hope he proves he's the guy by the end of this season.
What we do know is that it will only get worse, and certainly NOT better, with Hog Mollie boy in charge.
This team a platelet has some foundational pieces.. Thomas, Jones, Toney. Right off the top of my head.. but the defense has been a huge disappointment. I true pass rusher is needed
Quote:
I see it....Every GM has their guys. When someone has a track record with you and you know what you are getting that is a natural instinct. But I don't necessary think they are DG's men. When Betcher took over we signed many ex Cardinals. Judge has brought in ex Patriots. DG is not the king of the Giants. He is trying to help his coaches by bringing in players that the coaches know form there past. Every team does that.
Thanks! I owe it to Bugs Bunny & Looney Tunes.
He had to sign Leonard Williams. That was always going to happen. I never thought he was worth it. He's a good player, now we're paying him great player money. Could have been better spent IMO. But, that's my opinion. 10MM/year for Logan Ryan? Why? Because he's a cheerleader for you? Forget about Solder- he's a sunk cost by now. There's plenty more.
His plan to help Jones is backfiring. Spending resources on WR instead of OL is putting his high draft picks in jeopardy.
He HAS to go immediately.
lol. I shall knight thee. Arise Sir Loin of Beef!
Save Eli,
Open O,
Build foundational team,
with different HCs and THEIR philosophies every 2 years, and not expect FAILURE along the way.
We’ve seen the Browns, Lions and other poorly run franchises do that for years.
Now we are one of them.
If they truly buy into JJs plan to build a team , and him as a HC, they need stay with him and let him do that.
That said, I think the ‘21 draft will prove to be a good one: KT is exciting, AO looks good, ARobinson and ESmith bring hope, RWilliams might prove to be a starter,and I liked the quick and tough I saw in Brightwell preseason .
That said, I think some to much of that was JJs influence based on the new scouts. I also think he influenced the trades for extra ‘22 picks, a la BB.
If I right about the latter, it doesn’t bode well for DG, unless ownership lets him ride out his contract as a JJ pawn.
If I’m wrong,whatever they decide , the GM needs to draft Ol, ER early.
I
Save Eli,
Open O,
Build foundational team,
with different HCs and THEIR philosophies every 2 years, and not expect FAILURE along the way.
We’ve seen the Browns, Lions and other poorly run franchises do that for years.
Now we are one of them.
If they truly buy into JJs plan to build a team , and him as a HC, they need stay with him and let him do that.
That said, I think the ‘21 draft will prove to be a good one: KT is exciting, AO looks good, ARobinson and ESmith bring hope, RWilliams might prove to be a starter,and I liked the quick and tough I saw in Brightwell preseason .
That said, I think some to much of that was JJs influence based on the new scouts. I also think he influenced the trades for extra ‘22 picks, a la BB.
If I right about the latter, it doesn’t bode well for DG, unless ownership lets him ride out his contract as a JJ pawn.
If I’m wrong,whatever they decide , the GM needs to draft Ol, ER early.
I
How do A Robinson and Ellerson Smith “bring hope”? We have not seen them at all.