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Did the Giants coaches and FO enter week 1 believing

cosmicj : 10/11/2021 1:41 pm
They were a playoff contender.

This is riffing off of JonC’s criticism of the Giants org for its failure to self scout.

For several reasons, I believe the Giants saw themselves as a .500+ team before the regular season started. What do you think?
I have no idea BUT  
jvm52106 : 10/11/2021 1:48 pm : link
had we not blown both the Was and Atl games we would be 3-2 right now. The problem is we did blow those games and with injuries now the record is going to look very bad soon.

At this point, you are what your record says you are and we need to make changes accordingly.

IMO this was one of the strangest  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/11/2021 1:54 pm : link
preseasons I can remember. Lot's of mystery surrounding starters' performance, the Toney situation, Rudolph...

Not sure of the level of confidence the staff had with the roster.
Do I understand that 7 of the 11 starters on offense  
Big Blue '56 : 10/11/2021 1:54 pm : link
from opening day are out?
Giants Central  
AdamBrag : 10/11/2021 1:57 pm : link
100% believed they were a playoff contender going into this season. That's why they used all their cap space and leveraged future cap space.

They drank the Kool-Aid that last year showed a team on the rise who just needed a few pieces to be a strong playoff team.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/11/2021 1:58 pm : link
I think they thought they'd be ~.500 and were hoping things would break right to get them into the playoffs.

I think they expected the defense to be an elite unit.
Probably  
TroutMan : 10/11/2021 2:00 pm : link
They could easily be 4-1 even 5-0 if not for injuries and just letting the players play.

I think they have assembled a good team that has been played to close to the vest. Let them play and take their lumps. They will figure it out, you can see it in the games. They get better as the game goes on and they have to let the players play. This team can be explosive if given a chance.

I would say they miscalculated by letting Tomlinson go and not adequately filling that void. The Giants stance on the NT/DT position is mind boggling.
Yes...  
Dnew15 : 10/11/2021 2:11 pm : link
no doubt about it.

Look at the money they spent and then how they were willing to kick some of that money down the road.

I truly believe they thought that they put together a core of players that were legit.

Yes  
Producer : 10/11/2021 2:12 pm : link
The same people who thought Eli could still win a title in 2018.
RE: ....  
BillKo : 10/11/2021 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15408871 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think they thought they'd be ~.500 and were hoping things would break right to get them into the playoffs.

I think they expected the defense to be an elite unit.


That's what I think too. Maybe not elite, but good and dependable, the strength of the team.

And the QB would grow and improve in Year 3.
RE: Probably  
TyreeHelmet : 10/11/2021 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15408880 TroutMan said:
Quote:
They could easily be 4-1 even 5-0 if not for injuries and just letting the players play.

I think they have assembled a good team that has been played to close to the vest. Let them play and take their lumps. They will figure it out, you can see it in the games. They get better as the game goes on and they have to let the players play. This team can be explosive if given a chance.

I would say they miscalculated by letting Tomlinson go and not adequately filling that void. The Giants stance on the NT/DT position is mind boggling.


Easily be 5-0? Seriously?
Does JJ regret accepting this position?  
ATL_Giants : 10/11/2021 2:15 pm : link
Fuck. I am pissed and so disappointed.
Name a more iconic duo  
Scooter185 : 10/11/2021 2:19 pm : link
Than the Giants FO and misevaluating their ability to contend
Had a convo with a recently retired Giant before the season  
ron mexico : 10/11/2021 2:19 pm : link
I said that with the shitty NFCE and the extra playoff spot they should be able to at least compete for a playoff spot and he quickly countered that it was a rebuilding year. Don't know how close his is to the org anymore but thats some anecdotal evidence that semi insiders were not hopeful.

Cool story bro
I bet there are differing opinions on that issue inside the building  
Go Terps : 10/11/2021 2:22 pm : link
I doubt very strongly that Judge and Graham view the talent on the roster in the same light as Gettleman and the Maras.
RE: Probably  
ajr2456 : 10/11/2021 2:22 pm : link
In comment 15408880 TroutMan said:
Quote:
They could easily be 4-1 even 5-0 if not for injuries and just letting the players play.

I think they have assembled a good team that has been played to close to the vest. Let them play and take their lumps. They will figure it out, you can see it in the games. They get better as the game goes on and they have to let the players play. This team can be explosive if given a chance.

I would say they miscalculated by letting Tomlinson go and not adequately filling that void. The Giants stance on the NT/DT position is mind boggling.


What??
Love that you  
Dnew15 : 10/11/2021 2:23 pm : link
cool story bro'ed yourself :)

RE: Had a convo with a recently retired Giant before the season  
The_Boss : 10/11/2021 2:26 pm : link
In comment 15408927 ron mexico said:
Quote:
I said that with the shitty NFCE and the extra playoff spot they should be able to at least compete for a playoff spot and he quickly countered that it was a rebuilding year. Don't know how close his is to the org anymore but thats some anecdotal evidence that semi insiders were not hopeful.

Cool story bro


One of the OL guys who retired this summer?
RE: RE: Probably  
TroutMan : 10/11/2021 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15408917 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15408880 TroutMan said:


Quote:


They could easily be 4-1 even 5-0 if not for injuries and just letting the players play.

I think they have assembled a good team that has been played to close to the vest. Let them play and take their lumps. They will figure it out, you can see it in the games. They get better as the game goes on and they have to let the players play. This team can be explosive if given a chance.

I would say they miscalculated by letting Tomlinson go and not adequately filling that void. The Giants stance on the NT/DT position is mind boggling.



Easily be 5-0? Seriously?

EVEN 5-0 WITHOUT INJURIES.
If the did, this franchise is completely screwed  
GMen72 : 10/11/2021 2:28 pm : link
Going into the season, anyone could look at this roster and know the OLine would be average at best and we'd generate no pass rush. That's not a recipe for winning NFL games. Graham/Judge definitely knew this wasn't a good team...the schemes on both sides were designed to keep games close, not to dictate the action and win.
How in the world  
ajr2456 : 10/11/2021 2:28 pm : link
Can anyone say they think they’ve assembled a good team. Are we not watching the same games?
If the did, this franchise is completely screwed  
GMen72 : 10/11/2021 2:29 pm : link
Going into the season, anyone could look at this roster and know the OLine would be average at best and we'd generate no pass rush. That's not a recipe for winning NFL games. Graham/Judge definitely knew this wasn't a good team...the schemes on both sides were designed to keep games close, not to dictate the action and win.
The only way to know for sure  
Biteymax22 : 10/11/2021 2:32 pm : link
is to be one of them, but I don't think you spend the FA $$ they did to finish 7-10.....
RE: ....  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/11/2021 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15408871 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think they thought they'd be ~.500 and were hoping things would break right to get them into the playoffs.

I think they expected the defense to be an elite unit.
this is what I also expected
This thread  
JonC : 10/11/2021 3:23 pm : link
will separate the fan thinking with his heart from reality.
I think they bought into that 5-3 second half of the year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/11/2021 3:26 pm : link
as hard or harder than the fans did. Just leave out the part where they got spanked 3 of the last 4 and that end of season was strong.
I'm all for searching for positives  
JonC : 10/11/2021 3:29 pm : link
but this roster is ordinary, and the coaches (the big three especially) are struggling this year. Injuries are but one factor, but the key injuries are more of a recent vintage.
TTH  
JonC : 10/11/2021 3:30 pm : link
yep
RE: RE: RE: Probably  
TyreeHelmet : 10/11/2021 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15408946 TroutMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15408917 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 15408880 TroutMan said:


Quote:


They could easily be 4-1 even 5-0 if not for injuries and just letting the players play.

I think they have assembled a good team that has been played to close to the vest. Let them play and take their lumps. They will figure it out, you can see it in the games. They get better as the game goes on and they have to let the players play. This team can be explosive if given a chance.

I would say they miscalculated by letting Tomlinson go and not adequately filling that void. The Giants stance on the NT/DT position is mind boggling.



Easily be 5-0? Seriously?


EVEN 5-0 WITHOUT INJURIES.


How can you blame injuries for any other loss besides Dallas? And the Giants defense which is mostly healthy got absolutely torched yesterday.

All teams deal with injuries. I have no idea who anyone could think this team could easily be 5-0...
RE: This thread  
Jim in Tampa : 10/11/2021 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15409046 JonC said:
Quote:
will separate the fan thinking with his heart from reality.

That's a nice way to put it.

Too many posters here do think from the heart and they categorize anyone who doesn't share their view as a negative poster.
RE: RE: Had a convo with a recently retired Giant before the season  
ron mexico : 10/11/2021 3:34 pm : link
In comment 15408945 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 15408927 ron mexico said:


Quote:


I said that with the shitty NFCE and the extra playoff spot they should be able to at least compete for a playoff spot and he quickly countered that it was a rebuilding year. Don't know how close his is to the org anymore but thats some anecdotal evidence that semi insiders were not hopeful.

Cool story bro



One of the OL guys who retired this summer?


no, a special teamer who last played in 2019. leave it at that
weirdest thing for me, now having the benefit of hindsight  
UConn4523 : 10/11/2021 3:35 pm : link
is why we even signed Jackson to play coverages the way we do. Had I known that my opinion on the signed would have been different than (what is is now, a waste).

Besides that I'm fine spending money despite not being a definitive playoff team. These deals were "cheaper" based on the reduced cap and expected future growth. They also seemed to have gotten better OL coaching which, if not for the rash of injuries on the OL, would look even better in all likelihood.
Absolutely!!!  
Dave on the UWS : 10/11/2021 3:45 pm : link
and it gets to the heart of the matter. Assessment of player personnel , this roster and other teams falls at the feet of Gettleman’ and Chris Mara, the VP of Plater Personnel. It’s why Nepotism is a destructive force. The former needed to retire already and the latter has been HORRIBLE at his job sir a decade.
RE: I'm all for searching for positives  
BillKo : 10/11/2021 3:47 pm : link
In comment 15409057 JonC said: I
Quote:
but this roster is ordinary, and the coaches (the big three especially) are struggling this year. Injuries are but one factor, but the key injuries are more of a recent vintage.


Coaching is a huge part of the NFL. Finding ways to use your players to their best ability.

I really don't think we are doing that right now. In fact, they're making flat out dumb mistakes.
RE: Does JJ regret accepting this position?  
BillKo : 10/11/2021 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15408919 ATL_Giants said:
Quote:
Fuck. I am pissed and so disappointed.


Regret? He's the one who should be disappointed in his coaching so far.
If the D played to middle of the pack level, which I dont think was  
Victor in CT : 10/11/2021 4:51 pm : link
unreasonable to expect going in, they probably are 3-2. I did not see the defense as being a disaster going in. I thought they would be at least avg, and possibly get better if guys like McKinney and Ojulari improved as the season went on. I definitely did not see Bradberry regressing. I don't think Ryan has played to expectations either. And the Martinez injury is a disaster.
Might not win 4 games  
5BowlsSoon : 10/11/2021 5:53 pm : link
It will be interesting what Mara’s response will be. I’m pretty sure he was pretty vocal during the off-season telling us we will win this year.

If we go from 6 to 4, DG, Judge, and every coach and scout better hope Mara dips giving everyone a mulligan for all these injuries.
RE: RE: RE: Had a convo with a recently retired Giant before the season  
cosmicj : 10/11/2021 9:13 pm : link
In comment 15409066 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 15408945 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 15408927 ron mexico said:


Quote:


I said that with the shitty NFCE and the extra playoff spot they should be able to at least compete for a playoff spot and he quickly countered that it was a rebuilding year. Don't know how close his is to the org anymore but thats some anecdotal evidence that semi insiders were not hopeful.

Cool story bro



One of the OL guys who retired this summer?



no, a special teamer who last played in 2019. leave it at that


Zap DeOssie? He’s been around and is a pretty smart guy.
Ugh  
cosmicj : 10/11/2021 9:13 pm : link
Zak
I think our better coaches knew.  
Giant John : 10/11/2021 10:45 pm : link
They made lots of moves on the bottom of the roster. Depth was/is bad. My main complaint is the Giants never start the season ready to play NFL games on a high level. I’m sick of the buildup and high expectations and the team goes out and shits the bed. Five games in and realistically all we have to look forward to is the draft. Again and again. Gets real old fast.
I think they did  
Daniel in MI : 10/12/2021 12:37 am : link
heck, I think I thought we'd improve and maybe contend for the division.

I figured the O would improve some with the weapons and if the OL could just get to average to slightly below, and DJ improved.

What I never counted on (and don't think the Giants did) was the D dropping off a cliff despite adding AJ. I think we massively overestimated our pass rush. Azeez is ok for a rookie, but the rest of the edge guys are useless. They don't set the edge on the run and don't get any pressure.

I'm also a bit disappointed in the run D. I thought our DTs would be more stout even without Hill and Tomlinson.

This is why we play the ga ...oops, just tore my hammy.
Everyone's got a plan until  
JonC : 10/13/2021 9:03 am : link
they get punched in the mouth, and the coaches seem as unprepared for the punch as the players have. It's odd how they're coaching in games, including all the management mistakes Judge is making on a weekly basis. I don't recall him making so many of them in 2020, which suggests to me some panic in 2021. Across the board really it feels like a considerable amount of panic and more struggles with self-scouting. Ultimately, they're still in the middle of the road talent-wise, at best, and need better players all over the roster.
RE: Everyone's got a plan until  
BrettNYG10 : 10/13/2021 9:14 am : link
In comment 15411717 JonC said:
Quote:
they get punched in the mouth, and the coaches seem as unprepared for the punch as the players have. It's odd how they're coaching in games, including all the management mistakes Judge is making on a weekly basis. I don't recall him making so many of them in 2020, which suggests to me some panic in 2021. Across the board really it feels like a considerable amount of panic and more struggles with self-scouting. Ultimately, they're still in the middle of the road talent-wise, at best, and need better players all over the roster.


I think the offense in particular coaches scared at times. Garrett seems unwilling to risk turnovers and doesn't trust the offense to throw the ball in the red zone. I actually wonder if Garrett thinks the offensive talent sucks and coaches in a way that makes it even worse.
He definitely either is scared or clueless  
JonC : 10/13/2021 9:22 am : link
in the RZ, it's really strange. But, they're going to keep losing when settling for FGs.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/13/2021 9:34 am : link
If Glennon starts a few games, I'm curious on how often we pass in the RZ vs. when Jones is in there.

I don't think Garrett trusts Jones in the RZ at all, which contributes to the awful play calling.
RE: The only way to know for sure  
Brown_Hornet : 10/13/2021 11:23 am : link
In comment 15408963 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
is to be one of them, but I don't think you spend the FA $$ they did to finish 7-10.....
This is spot-on.

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