This franchise is quickly approaching a massive crossroad, and I think yesterday’s events have accelerated it. There are a ton of questions right now with the Giants:
— 1-4 record with a tough schedule upcoming and a lot of injuries.
— Dave Gettleman is most likely a lame duck GM.
— Daniel Jones is once again hurt with a 5th year option decision looming.
— Saquon Barkley hurt again with a decision on a 2nd contract looming.
— Joe Judge who showed promise, but may face a brand new front office.
— What looks to be an unfavorable cap situation next year after a lot of money spent this year.
— Numerous high priced veterans on what will be most likely another losing team.
The Giants have some promising pieces including Andrew Thomas at LT and Kadarius Toney. Two first round draft picks are big as well.
Where does the franchise go from here? Is it time to sell players? Does ownership double down on Jones & Barkley or just Jones?
Durability matters, and it scares me with Jones. This will be a huge moment in the franchise what they ultimately decide.
===Terrible Roster===
— Dave Gettleman is most likely a lame duck GM.:
===Should be fired tonight, this guy shouldn't be able to make another important decision for this franchise.===
— Daniel Jones is once again hurt with a 5th year option decision looming.:
===season is still early I expect him to miss one game at most, time to evaluate him further, I expect him to be a lone bright spot I'm a big DJ fan I see a guy that has great skill set and the least of our problems. Might be the only good move by DG.===
— Saquon Barkley hurt again with a decision on a 2nd contract looming.:
====same answer as with DJ shouldn't miss more than 2 weeks, see how he progresses throughout the season. Might be able to give him a modest two year deal, don't give up on this guy he has great talent.====
— Joe Judge who showed promise, but may face a brand new front office.:
====Fire Gettleman and give Joe Judge full control let him decide who number 2 should be, he gets a one year make or break chance, see how he does can't be any worse than Gettleman, if he shits the bed in his first draft then fire him and bring in a new GM / HC.===
— What looks to be an unfavorable cap situation next year after a lot of money spent this year.:
===Forget free agency need to build through the draft, only look for value in free agency, no big contracts, no big names.====
— Numerous high priced veterans on what will be most likely another losing team.
====we will pay for Gettlemans mistakes for a while but if we bring him back it will get worse this guy is terrible, between what he did in Carolina and what is going on now he is a unmitigated plane crash dumpsterfire. ===
That is an UNBELIEVABLE failure.
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To answer your question, the Giants need to find a scapegoat or two and blame them for this season.
That’s the time tested solution for incompetent management everywhere and it’s Mara’s MO.
If by "scapegoat", you mean "people who suck at their jobs"... you're exactly right.
Vortex of Suck means a work scene where high performers enter and gradually become incompetent. You think Graham and Garrett are incompetent idiots? I don’t for a moment believe that. There are credible pre draft reports of DG gushing about Wirfs and Justin Herbert. He had the evaluations on the nose and neither player is on the team.
You have to go past “accountability” and scapegoating and look at a scene which, instead of raising a persons performance, lowers it.
With this group no chance the Simms would ever have stuck around to win our first Super Bowl.
Simms won his first five starts of his rookie year in 1979;[10] he was 6–4 as a starter, threw for 1,743 yards and 13 touchdown passes, and was named to the NFL All-Rookie Team.[11] He was runner-up for Rookie of the Year, behind future teammate Ottis Anderson.[12]
Early career: 1980–1986
Simms' next four years were marred by injuries and inconsistent play. He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards.[13] In 1981, Simms threw for 2,031 yards, 11 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions on 54.4% completion percentage[13] before suffering a separated shoulder in a November 15 loss to the Washington Redskins.[14] With Simms out, the Giants went on a run led by Scott Brunner and advanced to the second round of the playoffs. Simms suffered a torn knee ligament in a preseason game against the New York Jets, preventing him from playing the entire 1982 season. Following the season, Ray Perkins resigned as head coach to take over the same position at the University of Alabama, and was replaced by the team's defensive coordinator Bill Parcells.
One of Parcells first decisions as coach was to replace Simms as the starting quarterback with Brunner.[16] Simms asked to be traded after the benching, but his request was ignored.[17] During the sixth game of the Giants' 1983 Season, Simms came in to replace the struggling Brunner against the Philadelphia Eagles. On his second drive, Simms suffered a season-ending injury when the thumb on his throwing hand hit a player's helmet on his follow-through. The injury was reported as a dislocation, but according to the book, Simms to McConkey, written by Phil McConkey, Simms, and Dick Schaap, the injury was much more severe, with the thumb literally hanging off after impact, and the bone sticking out through the skin.
+1. Caught me off guard
It's only one good game from Peart, but if he continues to play well, we're good at both tackle spots.
Wrong. The rules changed two years ago. Fifth-year options are now fully guaranteed when exercised.
On the positive side, draft position no longer determines the option price, which will make Jones somewhat cheaper in 2023 since he’s not going to hit any performance benchmarks (as measured by Pro Bowl selections).
Also, during Phil’s early years, quarterbacks on bad teams took such a beating that his run of misfortune was a bit less damning than it would be today. (See Archie Manning and Doug Williams, among many others.) IIRC Phil’s injuries happened while he was attempting to throw from a collapsing pocket. Although the thumb was the most gruesome, it was freak injury. More typical was the knee blowout against the Jets in a 1982 preseason game. That hit is now illegal.
I agree that Daniel Jones has shown enough to justify hope for his future. But I can also see where a new regime, in the context of thorough self-scouting of the whole roster, might decide to move on.
- Giants start 1-8/2-9, win a couple meaningless games after that to finish around 4-13/5-12
- They pick up Jones's 5th year option and make 2022 yet another "prove it" year
- They sign Barkley to a long term contract that takes into account his injuries...doesn't figure to be in the McCaffrey stratosphere
- Gettleman steps down in a nauseating press conference in which he and Mara tell us the arrow is pointing up
- Mara holds another banana republic-type GM interview process, after which Abrams is named GM
What should happen the moment the record falls to 1-8/2-7:
- Everyone that can be traded, should.
- Gettleman is fired out of a cannon into the Hackensack River
- Mara hires an outside consultant to direct a study of the Giants' current operations and how they meet or fall short of current best practices. This study would inform whether or not to retain Judge and his staff, non-Gettleman members of the front office, and the scouting department. This study would also provide a list of candidates for GM in accordance with the best practices identified in the study.
I have been typing out that last bullet, more or less in that language, for years on this site.
It's time for ownership to WAKE THE FUCK UP.
this is a joke post, right?
Agree with keeping Judge. Gettleman is 16-37.
Yes they did. He was available when they picked in 2020.
Yep.. I am sure we have no way of knowing this at all.. I love have DG fans always have excuses for him.. I am not saying we passed on Herbert, but there is no way of knowing that DG wanted him..
2. Garrett, Graham, and Gettleman need to be fired. Judge on the hot seat in 22.
3. Focus the draft on the OL and front 7 on defense.
4. Jones gets year 4 to prove he’s the guy in 22 with an improved OL. If he’s not the guy, you draft his replacement in 23 with Jones 5th year as a placeholder, and/or trade him.
5. Barkley does not get an extension. You look to trade him prior to deadline in 22.
Graham will never be fired. He is the assistant HC and JJs partner in everything. But he is not a good DC. JJ will likely get a pass but he shouldn't. He will end up with one of the worst two year records ever for a starting HC. Amd they had two winnable games in the first 3 that he mismanaged.
Well, I’d say it makes a difference. Herbert is on his way to a MVP and the Giants are sitting at 1-4. It would have been a ballsy decision, but look at the 5-0 Cardinals.
Are you really this dumb? Get rid of Toney? DJ? Golladay? Shep? Andrew Thomas?
The answer is either through the draft or free agency next season, get some legit pass rushers.
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cleaning house would set them back 3 years. I know some only see the record right now and can't see the forest for the trees. I believe this team is real close to turning the losses into wins.
this is a joke post, right?
The Giants have never operated this way before, so it would have to be a significant change. Just looking back:
-Accorsi outlasted Fassel
-Reese was hired after Coughlin
-Reese outlasted Coughlin
-Gettleman outlasted Shurmur
I don’t think the Giants view HC/GM as a package deal.
If that means a new coach, that means a new coach..
If that means a new QB then that means a new QB..
Whatever he wants you let him do it, no more meddling, no more owner picking coach, let the new gm do it..If that is keeping Judge then he keeps Judge..
and no more GMs from the family tree, find an outsider and let him remake the front office
-How good of a team around him does Jones need around him to have success? Has he shown enough to invest a second contract in? I am not at that point for the second question. If you move on who then is making that selection?
-Is Judge someone that can get this team to a championship level? He may have been encouraged to hire Garrett but the rest of the staff is all him. I also think he has had major input in the draft and FA selection. Is he someone that can make the difficult choices and has he done enough to let him make the those changes?
Dave is most likely gone and I am fine with that. But I think the the two questions above are the bigger issue.
In the meanwhile, a short list of players that may have some decent value and are not long-term pieces should be put together and marketed before the trade deadline. Obvious ones include Engram, Peppers, maybe Logan Ryan and possibly Barkley. Although would imagine that last one would elicit a variety of different opinions in Front Office.
RE: Herbert, I said it throughout the draft lead up in 2019 : do not force a QB! It's perfectly ok to sign a veteran to hold down the fort until the right prospect is revealed. There were proven vets available who could play the modern QB role, and Herbert in 2020 wound up sitting right there for NYG at #4. THAT was their biggest mistake!!
This can't be serious.
As for Mahomes, werent the Giants coming off going to the playoffs? and would of had to basically give up their entire draft to get him?
No one was clamoring for Josh Allen in that draft, or after his rookie year or after his 2nd year..
Hindsight will always win, but actually go back to the actual time these qbs were selected and look at the position the Giants were in..easy to say it now in the current situation
RE: Herbert, I said it throughout the draft lead up in 2019 : do not force a QB! It's perfectly ok to sign a veteran to hold down the fort until the right prospect is revealed. There were proven vets available who could play the modern QB role, and Herbert in 2020 wound up sitting right there for NYG at #4. THAT was their biggest mistake!!
I looked this up quickly: we can't cut Williams until after next year (he would then have a $7.5mm dead money cap hit in 2023). Golladay's dead cap wouldn't fall below $10mm until 2024.
I'm not advocating for cutting either but our next GM has his hands a bit tied.
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are likely to make it difficult to field a much different team in 2022, which is why the injuries could be used as a comfy excuse to stay the course another year. The trade deadline is the next mile marker to monitor, and let's hope they're able to create some space and add some assets for 2022.
RE: Herbert, I said it throughout the draft lead up in 2019 : do not force a QB! It's perfectly ok to sign a veteran to hold down the fort until the right prospect is revealed. There were proven vets available who could play the modern QB role, and Herbert in 2020 wound up sitting right there for NYG at #4. THAT was their biggest mistake!!
I looked this up quickly: we can't cut Williams until after next year (he would then have a $7.5mm dead money cap hit in 2023). Golladay's dead cap wouldn't fall below $10mm until 2024.
I'm not advocating for cutting either but our next GM has his hands a bit tied.
Cap is going to keeo going up, it may not be next year but the cap will explode with the new tv deal and recovering from the pandemic
I don’t understand what Joe Judge has done in his career that prompts people to suggest he be given the keys to the Giants castle. So, I wouldn’t involve Judge in any aspect of finding a new GM and I wouldn’t limit the pool of available candidates by insisting that Judge be retained as the HC.
Judge seems distinguished only in his presentation and media skills. Hey, that ain’t nothing. If Shurmur had Judges presence and communication skills, maybe he’d be a terrific HC. And if Judge could scheme up an offensive game plan then maybe he’d be a terrific HC. But Judge is clearly learning on the job and I’m just not sure how this benefits the Giants. I’m not ready to fire Judge but I also see little compelling evidence of achievement. Anyway, let the new GM decide if Judge should stay or go.
So, let’s get a gofundme to purchase the canon to fire Getty into the river!
Both starting corners are highly paid mercenaries because we try and fail to draft CBs over and over and over. Spend a walletful on Rudolph's fading talent then watch him have little to no impact on games.
No linebackers
No passrushers
Watching quality homegrown talent leave in free agency because you gotta have Kyle Rudolph and Adoree Jackson is bad management.
The bigger issue is the Giants have not been aggressive enough. They could have made a bold move and traded up for Mahomes, but probably got gun shy. They could have drafted Herbert and kept Jones, but that is too far against the norm.
Always reactive.
That is an UNBELIEVABLE failure.
You seem to be the one who repeats it everyday. We are getting the message that you don’t like the DJ pick but he may be our QB of the future.
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It needs to be repeated over and over that the Giants saw fit to pass on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Justin Herbert.
That is an UNBELIEVABLE failure.
You seem to be the one who repeats it everyday. We are getting the message that you don’t like the DJ pick but he may be our QB of the future.
It doesn't make what he says any less valid. You don't have to like him repeating it to your annoyance, but the thread topic is a commentary on management.
Jones certainly has the ability to put up some very good games, but can he do it with any consistency? He was really wild early on Sunday. Sure, his OL didn't do him any favors, but he missed badly on throws where he had plenty of time. That's not a franchise QB.
The Giants are 1-4 and really should be 3-2. I'm of the opinion that you have some pieces in place. Jones is a workable solution at QB. WR group is decent. OL has some pieces in place. At this point Barkley is NOT getting a huge second contract...maybe you roll the dice and keep him around. On the defensive side of the ball you are kinda locked in to what you have and improvements are coming from the draft.
There might be too many cooks in the kitchen on the coaching staff. The weak link in the whole thing might actually be Joe Judge. It's easy to lay the blame on Garrett and Graham...but they are not on the field. Throw in Kitchens and the rest of the assistants...it's actually an experienced coaching staff.
The problem in my opinion lies in the front office and player acquisition decision making. The one constant over the past 10 years has been an undermanned OL and lack of a pass rush. The Giants are running a 3-4 with a poor LB core. Can the front office fix themselves?
I think my point is that outside of Dallas they have been a play or two away. The larger point is why this team has stunk over the past ten years. Lack of depth at OL and poor front 7.