This franchise is quickly approaching a massive crossroad, and I think yesterday’s events have accelerated it. There are a ton of questions right now with the Giants:
— 1-4 record with a tough schedule upcoming and a lot of injuries.
— Dave Gettleman is most likely a lame duck GM.
— Daniel Jones is once again hurt with a 5th year option decision looming.
— Saquon Barkley hurt again with a decision on a 2nd contract looming.
— Joe Judge who showed promise, but may face a brand new front office.
— What looks to be an unfavorable cap situation next year after a lot of money spent this year.
— Numerous high priced veterans on what will be most likely another losing team.
The Giants have some promising pieces including Andrew Thomas at LT and Kadarius Toney. Two first round draft picks are big as well.
Where does the franchise go from here? Is it time to sell players? Does ownership double down on Jones & Barkley or just Jones?
Durability matters, and it scares me with Jones. This will be a huge moment in the franchise what they ultimately decide.
I see a record of 3-6 before they play a stronger 2nd half and wrap up with 7 or 8 wins.
Then I think you’ll see Gettleman step aside. Not sure if they’ll move forward with Abrams and O’Brien or if Judge brings in an outside guy.
Our lack of cap room means that we might now see substantial improvement until 2023.
Our lack of cap room means that we might now see substantial improvement until 2023.
Does the draft not matter?
9 picks, 5 of them premium. There’s plenty of opportunity next offseason. Let’s not ignore facts to fit a narrative.
That’s the time tested solution for incompetent management everywhere and it’s Mara’s MO.
Yes.
That’s the time tested solution for incompetent management everywhere and it’s Mara’s MO.
Spinning the scapegoat wheel (which has happened since 2013) would lead me to believe the scapegoats are Gettleman & Garrett.
Then I wake up.
- Giants start 1-8/2-9, win a couple meaningless games after that to finish around 4-13/5-12
- They pick up Jones's 5th year option and make 2022 yet another "prove it" year
- They sign Barkley to a long term contract that takes into account his injuries...doesn't figure to be in the McCaffrey stratosphere
- Gettleman steps down in a nauseating press conference in which he and Mara tell us the arrow is pointing up
- Mara holds another banana republic-type GM interview process, after which Abrams is named GM
What should happen the moment the record falls to 1-8/2-7:
- Everyone that can be traded, should.
- Gettleman is fired out of a cannon into the Hackensack River
- Mara hires an outside consultant to direct a study of the Giants' current operations and how they meet or fall short of current best practices. This study would inform whether or not to retain Judge and his staff, non-Gettleman members of the front office, and the scouting department. This study would also provide a list of candidates for GM in accordance with the best practices identified in the study.
I have been typing out that last bullet, more or less in that language, for years on this site.
It's time for ownership to WAKE THE FUCK UP.
The Giants are a Vortex of Suck. They need to be blown up. My concern is the dim witted incrementalism that Mara leans into. He needs an electric jolt in his nutsack.
There’s the real possibility of a McAdoo-like meltdown though after yesterday’s disaster. So that will be fun.
I would hope that Barkley, the most overrated player in the NFL since he came to the Giants, produces in meaningless games at the end of the year so we can flip him to a contender for a high pick (at least a second).
This years QB crop appears to be garbage. So if that is the case we might as well hold onto Jones for another year, especially given that he has played relatively well thus far.
Dump Gettleman, and as a result, dump Judge (sorry Judge fans). We will need a clean re-start. Even though Mara has proved to be extremely incompetent, he cannot be stupid enough to promote Abrams to GM. This will be an outside hire, and that hire should have his choice of HC.
The Giants are tight up against the cap next year, so expect big names to be released (Martinez, Ryan, Shepard) despite the dead cap hit ramifications.
This team is a dumpster fire. There is a lot of talent on this team, yet they can never put it together, ever.
I had unrealisticly high hopes coming into this season. Flush it down the drain and reset.
The Giants are a Vortex of Suck. They need to be blown up. My concern is the dim witted incrementalism that Mara leans into. He needs an electric jolt in his nutsack.
There’s the real possibility of a McAdoo-like meltdown though after yesterday’s disaster. So that will be fun.
Mara is churning through people and years with his incompetence. It's got to stop.
That’s the time tested solution for incompetent management everywhere and it’s Mara’s MO.
If by "scapegoat", you mean "people who suck at their jobs"... you're exactly right.
I can accept...that they are learning on the job...both Head coach and DC must do what they preach
Put the players in best position to succeed.
Play complimentary team football.
OC has had one decent game....4 poor games. Not cutting it and not sure if he is learning anything more....so replace him from calling the plays...when Jones returns.
2nd Question.....is Jones a franchise QB? Remove training wheels.
3rd Question....who to keep?
Barkley is challenging
Peppers, Hernandez must be friendly cap
Engram should be traded...he is a coach killer.
Carter just doesn't have it
Anyone else?
Draft BPA....hopefully a monster Edge and a top guard....with 3 down LBers...add RBs, and corners and a 2 way TE
Barkley’s 5th year option was already picked up. The Giants decide on Jones’ 5th year option after this season.
Correcting my correction. Barkley has already had his fifth year option exercised. Jones will undoubtedly have his exercised as well.
Quote:
It’s a Barkley who has his fifth year option coming not Jones who’s only in his third year.
Barkley’s 5th year option was already picked up. The Giants decide on Jones’ 5th year option after this season.
Bear me to it!
Plenty of snaps and opportunities for growth for Dex, Ojulari, Crowder, Coughlin, McKinney, Love, Holmes and hopefully we’ll get to see Robinson, Smith, and Cam Brown too.
Plenty of time to geek out on the draft and FA in the off-season.
as for your daniel jones question. that's not even a question. you do not pick up his option
you pick up barkley's option and let him play on it. i'd entertain trade offers but i'd be in no rush to deal him. it would have to be a good offer
as for your daniel jones question. that's not even a question. you do not pick up his option
you pick up barkley's option and let him play on it. i'd entertain trade offers but i'd be in no rush to deal him. it would have to be a good offer
Zero chance they don’t pick up his option.
2. Garrett, Graham, and Gettleman need to be fired. Judge on the hot seat in 22.
3. Focus the draft on the OL and front 7 on defense.
4. Jones gets year 4 to prove he’s the guy in 22 with an improved OL. If he’s not the guy, you draft his replacement in 23 with Jones 5th year as a placeholder, and/or trade him.
5. Barkley does not get an extension. You look to trade him prior to deadline in 22.
Ugh I truly hope not
I think it goes down like this:
— Judge is retained with a change in OC.
— Mara hires a young GM from the outside who has some similar ties. Maybe it is Ryan Poles which a poster mentioned a few weeks back (BC ties). That GM will be hired with the intent to be here long term and work with Judge. As arniefez has said, HC & GM report to Mara.
— Jones 5th year option is picked up.
— Barkley signed to an extension.
The outside GM will be considered the “big move”.
He’ll give Judge one, maybe two, years to make it work.
He’ll give Judge one, maybe two, years to make it work.
I don’t think the GM will have ties to Judge necessarily. I think it’ll be a young guy with the intent to be the GM for the next 10 plus years.
- Giants start 1-8/2-9, win a couple meaningless games after that to finish around 4-13/5-12
- They pick up Jones's 5th year option and make 2022 yet another "prove it" year
- They sign Barkley to a long term contract that takes into account his injuries...doesn't figure to be in the McCaffrey stratosphere
- Gettleman steps down in a nauseating press conference in which he and Mara tell us the arrow is pointing up
- Mara holds another banana republic-type GM interview process, after which Abrams is named GM
What should happen the moment the record falls to 1-8/2-7:
- Everyone that can be traded, should.
- Gettleman is fired out of a cannon into the Hackensack River
- Mara hires an outside consultant to direct a study of the Giants' current operations and how they meet or fall short of current best practices. This study would inform whether or not to retain Judge and his staff, non-Gettleman members of the front office, and the scouting department. This study would also provide a list of candidates for GM in accordance with the best practices identified in the study.
I have been typing out that last bullet, more or less in that language, for years on this site.
It's time for ownership to WAKE THE FUCK UP.
I can save Mara some money on that last point. Retain NONE OF THEM. Fire his brother and nephew too. Clean start. The consultant should just be there to identify the next GM.
===Terrible Roster===
— Dave Gettleman is most likely a lame duck GM.:
===Should be fired tonight, this guy shouldn't be able to make another important decision for this franchise.===
— Daniel Jones is once again hurt with a 5th year option decision looming.:
===season is still early I expect him to miss one game at most, time to evaluate him further, I expect him to be a lone bright spot I'm a big DJ fan I see a guy that has great skill set and the least of our problems. Might be the only good move by DG.===
— Saquon Barkley hurt again with a decision on a 2nd contract looming.:
====same answer as with DJ shouldn't miss more than 2 weeks, see how he progresses throughout the season. Might be able to give him a modest two year deal, don't give up on this guy he has great talent.====
— Joe Judge who showed promise, but may face a brand new front office.:
====Fire Gettleman and give Joe Judge full control let him decide who number 2 should be, he gets a one year make or break chance, see how he does can't be any worse than Gettleman, if he shits the bed in his first draft then fire him and bring in a new GM / HC.===
— What looks to be an unfavorable cap situation next year after a lot of money spent this year.:
===Forget free agency need to build through the draft, only look for value in free agency, no big contracts, no big names.====
— Numerous high priced veterans on what will be most likely another losing team.
====we will pay for Gettlemans mistakes for a while but if we bring him back it will get worse this guy is terrible, between what he did in Carolina and what is going on now he is a unmitigated plane crash dumpsterfire. ===
That is an UNBELIEVABLE failure.
Quote:
To answer your question, the Giants need to find a scapegoat or two and blame them for this season.
That’s the time tested solution for incompetent management everywhere and it’s Mara’s MO.
If by "scapegoat", you mean "people who suck at their jobs"... you're exactly right.
Vortex of Suck means a work scene where high performers enter and gradually become incompetent. You think Graham and Garrett are incompetent idiots? I don’t for a moment believe that. There are credible pre draft reports of DG gushing about Wirfs and Justin Herbert. He had the evaluations on the nose and neither player is on the team.
You have to go past “accountability” and scapegoating and look at a scene which, instead of raising a persons performance, lowers it.
With this group no chance the Simms would ever have stuck around to win our first Super Bowl.
Simms won his first five starts of his rookie year in 1979;[10] he was 6–4 as a starter, threw for 1,743 yards and 13 touchdown passes, and was named to the NFL All-Rookie Team.[11] He was runner-up for Rookie of the Year, behind future teammate Ottis Anderson.[12]
Early career: 1980–1986
Simms' next four years were marred by injuries and inconsistent play. He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards.[13] In 1981, Simms threw for 2,031 yards, 11 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions on 54.4% completion percentage[13] before suffering a separated shoulder in a November 15 loss to the Washington Redskins.[14] With Simms out, the Giants went on a run led by Scott Brunner and advanced to the second round of the playoffs. Simms suffered a torn knee ligament in a preseason game against the New York Jets, preventing him from playing the entire 1982 season. Following the season, Ray Perkins resigned as head coach to take over the same position at the University of Alabama, and was replaced by the team's defensive coordinator Bill Parcells.
One of Parcells first decisions as coach was to replace Simms as the starting quarterback with Brunner.[16] Simms asked to be traded after the benching, but his request was ignored.[17] During the sixth game of the Giants' 1983 Season, Simms came in to replace the struggling Brunner against the Philadelphia Eagles. On his second drive, Simms suffered a season-ending injury when the thumb on his throwing hand hit a player's helmet on his follow-through. The injury was reported as a dislocation, but according to the book, Simms to McConkey, written by Phil McConkey, Simms, and Dick Schaap, the injury was much more severe, with the thumb literally hanging off after impact, and the bone sticking out through the skin.
+1. Caught me off guard
It's only one good game from Peart, but if he continues to play well, we're good at both tackle spots.
Wrong. The rules changed two years ago. Fifth-year options are now fully guaranteed when exercised.
On the positive side, draft position no longer determines the option price, which will make Jones somewhat cheaper in 2023 since he’s not going to hit any performance benchmarks (as measured by Pro Bowl selections).
Also, during Phil’s early years, quarterbacks on bad teams took such a beating that his run of misfortune was a bit less damning than it would be today. (See Archie Manning and Doug Williams, among many others.) IIRC Phil’s injuries happened while he was attempting to throw from a collapsing pocket. Although the thumb was the most gruesome, it was freak injury. More typical was the knee blowout against the Jets in a 1982 preseason game. That hit is now illegal.
I agree that Daniel Jones has shown enough to justify hope for his future. But I can also see where a new regime, in the context of thorough self-scouting of the whole roster, might decide to move on.
- Giants start 1-8/2-9, win a couple meaningless games after that to finish around 4-13/5-12
- They pick up Jones's 5th year option and make 2022 yet another "prove it" year
- They sign Barkley to a long term contract that takes into account his injuries...doesn't figure to be in the McCaffrey stratosphere
- Gettleman steps down in a nauseating press conference in which he and Mara tell us the arrow is pointing up
- Mara holds another banana republic-type GM interview process, after which Abrams is named GM
What should happen the moment the record falls to 1-8/2-7:
- Everyone that can be traded, should.
- Gettleman is fired out of a cannon into the Hackensack River
- Mara hires an outside consultant to direct a study of the Giants' current operations and how they meet or fall short of current best practices. This study would inform whether or not to retain Judge and his staff, non-Gettleman members of the front office, and the scouting department. This study would also provide a list of candidates for GM in accordance with the best practices identified in the study.
I have been typing out that last bullet, more or less in that language, for years on this site.
It's time for ownership to WAKE THE FUCK UP.
this is a joke post, right?
Agree with keeping Judge. Gettleman is 16-37.
Yes they did. He was available when they picked in 2020.