IMV, the leading MVP candidates right now are LJax, Herbert, Allen and Mahomes.
Either through smart or bold drafting, we could have grabbed LJax, Herbert or Allen. And had Mara listened more closely to McAdoo, who reportedly campaigned for Mahomes, we could have done exactly what the Chiefs did in 2017 and traded with Buffalo at #10. We easily had the same assets.
Instead, it's another year and we are dead last in the NFCE with little hope in sight...
Brady also could have been a Giant, but almost everyone not taken before the Giants first round pick their draft year could have been a Giant.
The Giants could have done that with Herbet, but to be fair to them I doubt very many franchises would have done that in their shoes.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
This is a Giants forum. The Giants currently suck (and have for a decade). What Giants related things would you like us to post about with joy in our hearts?
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
What was your handle before?
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In comment 15410024 Producer said:
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
What was your handle before?
You’ve asked me this before about 10 times. I don’t have one. It doesn’t take a lot of reading to come up with the same people saying the same things over and over and over again.
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
Fair enough, we’ll never know. I just don’t understand telling fans of a miserable team, not to be negative on a forum about the team. There’s nothing really positive to post about. I’m more tired of the organization sucking every year than negative posters.
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Is that 4 would have been playing with shitty talent (which GoTerps says all the time), poor coaches, and a poor GM.
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
Fair enough, we’ll never know. I just don’t understand telling fans of a miserable team, not to be negative on a forum about the team. There’s nothing really positive to post about. I’m more tired of the organization sucking every year than negative posters.
I don’t care if people are negative. Hell I have been too. But do we need 20 threads on the same thing?
DG sucks, Jones sucks, Mara sucks. We get it.
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In comment 15410031 GNewGiants said:
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Is that 4 would have been playing with shitty talent (which GoTerps says all the time), poor coaches, and a poor GM.
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
Fair enough, we’ll never know. I just don’t understand telling fans of a miserable team, not to be negative on a forum about the team. There’s nothing really positive to post about. I’m more tired of the organization sucking every year than negative posters.
I don’t care if people are negative. Hell I have been too. But do we need 20 threads on the same thing?
DG sucks, Jones sucks, Mara sucks. We get it.
It sucks but to me this is how some people get through consecutive losing seasons. I used to try and dissect what was wrong, and think of the things thw Giants needed to do in order to improve for next year. I’m so tired of doing that. It’s not even mid-October and we are finished. This team deserves every ounce of criticism and negativity that comes their way.
I don’t know if we would be better with Lamar, Allen or Murray. I do know we are putrid with the picks we did make.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Fine. Throw Brady and Murray in there. We still could have had 4 of the six.
We are both bitter NYG fans. I just chose to aim my bitterness at the incompetent fools that have made these decisions during this Decade of Despair.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
Be honest. When you think about what was in our control during the last four to five drafts, we really had some enormous mishits. Now to see these misses in the running for an MVP is really salt on the a lot of wounds...
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Fine. Throw Brady and Murray in there. We still could have had 4 of the six.
We are both bitter NYG fans. I just chose to aim my bitterness at the incompetent fools that have made these decisions during this Decade of Despair.
This will ge turned around eventually. Maybe not this year or next year but it will. We have hit the worst storm possible
A bad GM + 2 horrific cosches and an unknown as a third + really unlucky when it comes to injuries.
The injuries is what upsets me the most. Losing is one thing - but we haven’t had a healthy team or anything close to it since 2016. I just want the starters to play.
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Fine. Throw Brady and Murray in there. We still could have had 4 of the six.
We are both bitter NYG fans. I just chose to aim my bitterness at the incompetent fools that have made these decisions during this Decade of Despair.
This will ge turned around eventually. Maybe not this year or next year but it will. We have hit the worst storm possible
A bad GM + 2 horrific cosches and an unknown as a third + really unlucky when it comes to injuries.
The injuries is what upsets me the most. Losing is one thing - but we haven’t had a healthy team or anything close to it since 2016. I just want the starters to play.
You both are correct. Our misses are devastating, and at some point it has to turn around (right?). We can acknowledge our misses while looking forward to moves that hopefully make our team better. It is what it is.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
It's not hindsight when you say it before it happens.
I have had my disagreements with those who believe Jones can’t do anything right and isn’t even on the level of Trubisky/Mariota, but I am going to need to call you out here. The inability to cap drives off with touchdowns, be it running or passing, is a significant issue and downgrade for Jones. You can’t win by settling for FG.
You bet the Giants to get blown out by Dallas
Also you said you are actively rooting for the team to lose.
Please go away. Your are the WORST.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
Pretty much agree. This is a really ridiculous argument. I guess the other teams who passed up on these players our bed also.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
Yep, we weren't in the market for a QB and he wasn't even considered a top 3-4 QB in the lot that season. How the Tua at #5 looking?
Yet, anyone with an average football IQ would take at least 12 current QBs over Jones right now. And without hesitating.
He’s having a pretty good year. But if you can’t score points to win the games the metrics end up being meaningless. Because that’s Jones job description - score a lot of points to win games.
Right now he is less of a problem. But no one on this board should comfortably say he’s the bonafide solution going forward.
So no regrets taking Jones?
All of the aforementioned QBs we passed on don’t bother you at all.
Right?
I said yesterday that Buffalo deserves all the credit they're getting for drafting Allen but 2 QBs were gone by the time they picked so we'll never know if he was their highest rated QB. He was extremely raw as as a rookie, it would have been a tough ride in NY for him as a rookie. Their HC, OC and GM have done a fantastic job developing him and surrounding him with complimentary talent.
The Giants drafted a RB #2 in that draft. A lot of Giant fans hated the pick the minute it was made because RB is not an impact position in NFL anymore, they aren't worth big money, they get hurt a lot and have short careers. That's exactly how's it played out. That pick set the stage everything that has followed it and gone wrong.
Funny thing is you can play this game all day and in negative ways too:
We could have had Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Eli even longer...
You guys are a broken record.. A few things to consider though- Jackson would have been killed here with our Oline (remember he was drafted to a team that built a powerful OL for Flacco) and more than likely not developed at all as he has now. It is funny how you three talk about the team being absolutely bottom barrel on talent then dare say look what we could have had for QB as if that is the difference in talent on this team. You three like to pretend to be forward thinkers (above everyone else here) and yet you are more baiters (on a number of subject matter), ignoring points that defeat your argument and over emphasizing points to bulk up your argument.
Anyone who watched this past Sunday saw a VERY expensive defensive unit do NOTHING all game long. You guys see Jones as the reason we were losing. Yet, when he was concussed he had us at the goal line for the tying score. This while missing Barkley, SS, Slayton, Gates, SL, Bresden, Thomas and an nicked up KG barely functioning at that point.. But, decide he should have had more points.. Forgetting the dropped pass by KT on 3rd down on the first drive after the turnover- a beautiful pass by Jones that would have kept the drive going. I don't get the hatred you guys have but maybe there is more at play here with your anger/hatred and pure bias.. Guess you guys only know that though.
Funny thing is you can play this game all day and in negative ways too:
We could have had Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Eli even longer...
You guys are a broken record.. A few things to consider though- Jackson would have been killed here with our Oline (remember he was drafted to a team that built a powerful OL for Flacco) and more than likely not developed at all as he has now. It is funny how you three talk about the team being absolutely bottom barrel on talent then dare say look what we could have had for QB as if that is the difference in talent on this team. You three like to pretend to be forward thinkers (above everyone else here) and yet you are more baiters (on a number of subject matter), ignoring points that defeat your argument and over emphasizing points to bulk up your argument.
Anyone who watched this past Sunday saw a VERY expensive defensive unit do NOTHING all game long. You guys see Jones as the reason we were losing. Yet, when he was concussed he had us at the goal line for the tying score. This while missing Barkley, SS, Slayton, Gates, SL, Bresden, Thomas and an nicked up KG barely functioning at that point.. But, decide he should have had more points.. Forgetting the dropped pass by KT on 3rd down on the first drive after the turnover- a beautiful pass by Jones that would have kept the drive going. I don't get the hatred you guys have but maybe there is more at play here with your anger/hatred and pure bias.. Guess you guys only know that though.
Because they arent giants fans, notice none of them posted after the saints game and if they did it was to say Jones really wasnt that inpressive..
They have a schtick and they stick to it and anyone who disagrees with them is just a homer..
They all have admitted to rooting against the giants and basically only care about being right..
Jones is top 5?
How do you figure?
30 teams other than the Giants passed on Jackson. Ravens took a chance and have tailored their offense to fit Jackson. Good for them. The Broncos went with Case Keenum in 2018 while passing on Allen and Jackson. The Titans kept it rolling with Mariota and Gabbert while passing on Jackson.
After seeing the disaster that Haskins was, seeing Alex Smith was on his last legs (no pun intended), Washington passed on Herbert. Miami went with Tua over Herbert.
Supposedly DG wanted Herbert, and while he/the Giants could have let Eli play out the string and waited another year for the chance to draft him, it was no guarantee they'd be able to. Also, I think many here were excited for Jones after his rookie year while acknowledging he needed to clean some things up (fumbles, pocket presence, etc.).
Fast forward to this year. Jones has improved on ball security, has been better moving around the pocket and has been improving. The playcalling has been terrible more often that it has been good this year, especially in the red zone (jet sweep to Engram on 2nd and goal anyone?). I'd love to see this offense, when healthy, with a more modern play caller. Garrett has had his moments, but he has not been a good play caller.
So my overall point is that the draft is a crapshoot. You may have factions wanting certain QB's or other players that DO end up working out while others (Rosen as a huge example) bust hard. I get the last 10 years of lousy football has taken a toll and is therefore causing more hand wringing over the misses, but the Giants are not the only ones to have passed on some of these guys.
When did we have a chance for Brady?
Our big mistake was not going Allen in 2018 - and I get why they didn't at #2.
Interesting question would be who would Buffalo had taken if they had the #2? We'll never know.
And then of course Hebert in 2020.
But again, look at the other teams that passed on Hebert.
Shit happens. We just need to see ourselves out of it.
Wait for the next predictable thread:
NO ONE WANTS THIS JOB BECAUSE OF MARA. NOW WHAT?
It is a failure we will rue for a decade.
Yes u know what’s really worth a discussion? What kind of numbers Jones would have had playing with those teams/personnel.
But stick to your narrative!
Yes u know what’s really worth a discussion? What kind of numbers Jones would have had playing with those teams/personnel.
But stick to your narrative!
This is actually true. Said it earlier in this thread.
Let’s look at Mahomes.
- plays for one of the greatest offensive minds ever
- redshirted his rookie year
- plays with two eventual HOF in Hill and Kelce.
Talk about an ideal scenario.
If the Giants had drafted him like McAdoo wanted… he would have been GROOMED BY MCADOO!!! Is there a worse thing that could have happened. McAdoo was a joke of a coach and still has no coaching jobs since being fired. Mahomes would not be Mahomes under McAdoo tutelage.
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
How does Mahomes look with Pressure in his face all the time? doesnt look to good..
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
I think you should re-watch last years Super Bowl...
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
Jeff George, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Ryan Leaf, Josh Rosen were extremely gifted. Probably a few others as well.
None of them were considered the best QBs during their time or even close to it.
Funny thing is you can play this game all day and in negative ways too:
We could have had Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Eli even longer...
You guys are a broken record.. A few things to consider though- Jackson would have been killed here with our Oline (remember he was drafted to a team that built a powerful OL for Flacco) and more than likely not developed at all as he has now. It is funny how you three talk about the team being absolutely bottom barrel on talent then dare say look what we could have had for QB as if that is the difference in talent on this team. You three like to pretend to be forward thinkers (above everyone else here) and yet you are more baiters (on a number of subject matter), ignoring points that defeat your argument and over emphasizing points to bulk up your argument.
Anyone who watched this past Sunday saw a VERY expensive defensive unit do NOTHING all game long. You guys see Jones as the reason we were losing. Yet, when he was concussed he had us at the goal line for the tying score. This while missing Barkley, SS, Slayton, Gates, SL, Bresden, Thomas and an nicked up KG barely functioning at that point.. But, decide he should have had more points.. Forgetting the dropped pass by KT on 3rd down on the first drive after the turnover- a beautiful pass by Jones that would have kept the drive going. I don't get the hatred you guys have but maybe there is more at play here with your anger/hatred and pure bias.. Guess you guys only know that though.
I certainly hate losing. The endless losing. So I question why we continue to lose. And it seems reasonable to analyze what we overlooked in the draft process. Especially the most recent five years or so once Eli started to decline.
Hey, if you think Jones is the answer at QB and we played our cards right to get him, fair enough. All I know is right now we could have had our hands on four legitimate MVP candidates if we played our cards differently.
Because despite your creative thinking, Jones is NOWHERE in the vicinity of Allen, LJax, Herbert or Mahomes as QB talents. And while you do raise a good point that Jones hasn't had the best talent, I firmly believe any of the QBs I mentioned have the special skill that Jones unfortunately doesn't have - the ability to make other players better. He just needs too much around him - right now - to even sniff success...
I certainly hate losing. The endless losing. So I question why we continue to lose. And it seems reasonable to analyze what we overlooked in the draft process. Especially the most recent five years or so once Eli started to decline.
Hey, if you think Jones is the answer at QB and we played our cards right to get him, fair enough. All I know is right now we could have had our hands on four legitimate MVP candidates if we played our cards differently.
Because despite your creative thinking, Jones is NOWHERE in the vicinity of Allen, LJax, Herbert or Mahomes as QB talents. And while you do raise a good point that Jones hasn't had the best talent, I firmly believe any of the QBs I mentioned have the special skill that Jones unfortunately doesn't have - the ability to make other players better. He just needs too much around him - right now - to even sniff success...
I dont disagree with your idea that Jones isnt close to them. I actually do agree with that. Jones is probably somewhere closer to 15-18 IMO. And if things fell right, he could win. I think the point that is missed that if we replaced the better QBs with Jones or even back to Eli - that those QBs would be as good as they are now. And I strongly disagree with that. We would be better no doubt but Mahomes wouldnt have a SB already, Allen wouldnt be the betting favorite this year, Lamar/mahomes wouldnt have MVPs to their names either.
Because they arent giants fans, notice none of them posted after the saints game and if they did it was to say Jones really wasnt that inpressive..
They have a schtick and they stick to it and anyone who disagrees with them is just a homer..
They all have admitted to rooting against the giants and basically only care about being right..
Look, if you are going to lie at least be somewhat creative. Because I posted a ton after the Saints game. Just because you potentially have a comprehension and/or recollection problem is really on you, not me. There are decent over the counter options for your issues - like Prevagen.
Further, when have I ever admitted rooting against the Giants? Please provide some evidence and context rather than relying on your hideous memory...
Yes u know what’s really worth a discussion? What kind of numbers Jones would have had playing with those teams/personnel.
But stick to your narrative!
I don't agree with that premise. That assumes Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and LJax are essentially the same skills wise as Jones. Do you actually believe that nonsense?
Now, I agree that maybe those guys wouldn't have produced as prolifically as they have with their respective teams, but I do think they would have produced more wins. They are just better talents with more resources.
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Because they arent giants fans, notice none of them posted after the saints game and if they did it was to say Jones really wasnt that inpressive..
They have a schtick and they stick to it and anyone who disagrees with them is just a homer..
They all have admitted to rooting against the giants and basically only care about being right..
Look, if you are going to lie at least be somewhat creative. Because I posted a ton after the Saints game. Just because you potentially have a comprehension and/or recollection problem is really on you, not me. There are decent over the counter options for your issues - like Prevagen.
Further, when have I ever admitted rooting against the Giants? Please provide some evidence and context rather than relying on your hideous memory...
Maybe not you BW but the other 2 have admitted to rooting avainst the Giants...
If you havnt my apologies for lumping you in
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you think it's a coincidence that the most gifted QBs are also the best QBs?
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
I think you should re-watch last years Super Bowl...
It's a logical fallacy to assert the results of a single game against a great peaking defense negates everything Mahomes did until that point. Nobody is saying these QBs don;t have bad games. Take your weak and desperate arguments elsewhere.
It's a logical fallacy to assert the results of a single game against a great peaking defense negates everything Mahomes did until that point. Nobody is saying these QBs don;t have bad games. Take your weak and desperate arguments elsewhere.
No, what you are missing is that we arent downplaying Mahomes skill - what we are saying is what he saw in the SB that led to a bad game is what he would probably see on a weekly basis if he were a Giant. Still a very good QB, but not what he is with KC.
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In comment 15410376 Producer said:
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you think it's a coincidence that the most gifted QBs are also the best QBs?
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
I think you should re-watch last years Super Bowl...
It's a logical fallacy to assert the results of a single game against a great peaking defense negates everything Mahomes did until that point. Nobody is saying these QBs don;t have bad games. Take your weak and desperate arguments elsewhere.
I guess you havnt watched him much this year
I don't agree with that premise. That assumes Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and LJax are essentially the same skills wise as Jones. Do you actually believe that nonsense?
Now, I agree that maybe those guys wouldn't have produced as prolifically as they have with their respective teams, but I do think they would have produced more wins. They are just better talents with more resources.
Can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. None of those guys would have much success with the porous OL and throwing to the likes of Slayton as the #1 receiver and having wayne gallman as the #1 RB. Not to mention they would have another 6 INT's on their record thanks to Engram
But they're 4-1 anyway. No excuses needed.
Oh and Justin Herbert was a rookie in a COVID offseason who was thrust into a starting role because a doctor stuck a needle in Tyrod Taylor's lung. He has incompetent coaching and the 32nd ranked OL in the league. No worries - he threw 31 TDs in 15 games. This year he's an MVP candidate despite not having yet reached Gettleman's magic third season.
No excuses needed.
But they're 4-1 anyway. No excuses needed.
Oh and Justin Herbert was a rookie in a COVID offseason who was thrust into a starting role because a doctor stuck a needle in Tyrod Taylor's lung. He has incompetent coaching and the 32nd ranked OL in the league. No worries - he threw 31 TDs in 15 games. This year he's an MVP candidate despite not having yet reached Gettleman's magic third season.
No excuses needed.
Herbert had one of the worst pass protection OLs in the league last year. Despite that, Herbert was great and had one of the best - if not the best - QBRs when under duress.
That's a force multiplier.
But they're 4-1 anyway. No excuses needed.
Oh and Justin Herbert was a rookie in a COVID offseason who was thrust into a starting role because a doctor stuck a needle in Tyrod Taylor's lung. He has incompetent coaching and the 32nd ranked OL in the league. No worries - he threw 31 TDs in 15 games. This year he's an MVP candidate despite not having yet reached Gettleman's magic third season.
No excuses needed.
If you dont think Baltimore's coaching staff and FO is eons better than the Giants -i dont know what to tell you.
I am not quite sure whats the Giants.
Are they a passing or running the ball team?
Do they like to get after the QB?
Do they leave their high paying Corners out on islands? or are they zone?
Theres a lot of broken pieces within this team.
I’m shocked there are so many people still making excuses…. My personal opinion is that Jones has shown enough progress to be considered a mid to lower tier starter. I want better than that.
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I don't agree with that premise. That assumes Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and LJax are essentially the same skills wise as Jones. Do you actually believe that nonsense?
Now, I agree that maybe those guys wouldn't have produced as prolifically as they have with their respective teams, but I do think they would have produced more wins. They are just better talents with more resources.
Can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. None of those guys would have much success with the porous OL and throwing to the likes of Slayton as the #1 receiver and having wayne gallman as the #1 RB. Not to mention they would have another 6 INT's on their record thanks to Engram
You do realize the Ravens are basically using RBs off the street because they lost their three top RBs in the summer. And they lost their first round draft pick, WR Rashod Bateman. I challenge to to tell me the Ravens have a legit #1 WR.
I do like their TE Andrews.
And their OL has been influx since the start of the season. See the acquisition of Zeitler to fill a G spot (oddly enough, he is playing pretty well).
Plus, that Ravens D is not your a typical Ravens D.
So I disagree - LJax is making chicken salad. Amazing chicken salad...
KC - Mahomes gets completely off his game with a horrible INT and fumble on the last drive.
Detroit- refs miss a bad delay of game and struggle against a bad detroit team and need a NFL record 66 yard FG and a lucky bounce to win.
Indy - Need a massive comeback with INdy kicker missing a PAT and two field goals and win in OT.
The Ravens either have some 2011 Giants in them or this will catch up to them. The problem is Lamar can make 2-3 quarters of bad play and missed throws go away with a huge half. Its very risky.
But there is something about LJax's magic. Because if you don't step on their throats and put them out of their misery, LJax grabs the second chance and drags that team to wins.
But there is something about LJax's magic. Because if you don't step on their throats and put them out of their misery, LJax grabs the second chance and drags that team to wins.
Which is odd, because hes been known to fold. Jackson doesnt need to be superman for 4 quarter. But he cant be inept like he was in the first half against Buffalo, Cleveland, SD, etc...
I agree with Christian's point about this, which is a bit elusive but it's essentially this: if our GM were the sort who was capable of evaluating these players adequately enough to prioritize taking one of them, he'd likely also be the sort who'd make fewer Gettleman-caliber mistakes and more good moves that are beyond Gettleman's ability.
I think this is behind the "root for losses" mentality. It's not that people want to see the Giants be a losing team. It's the hope that enough losses will result in a total departure from the way they're currently running things. And let's face it: there's ample evidence that "the way they're currently running things" is a far more ominous obstacle preventing success than any of the actual football opponents the Giants face in a season.
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I agree. The Ravens have had more than their fair share of serendipity. So it's a fair point.
But there is something about LJax's magic. Because if you don't step on their throats and put them out of their misery, LJax grabs the second chance and drags that team to wins.
Which is odd, because hes been known to fold. Jackson doesnt need to be superman for 4 quarter. But he cant be inept like he was in the first half against Buffalo, Cleveland, SD, etc...
There is still a wildness to his game that creates big risk for his team. And he needs to clean that up because the Ravens aren't good enough to have high margins for error.
That fumble last night, for example, near the goal line usually equals a loss, especially when you are trying to dig out of a hole.
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I agree. The Ravens have had more than their fair share of serendipity. So it's a fair point.
But there is something about LJax's magic. Because if you don't step on their throats and put them out of their misery, LJax grabs the second chance and drags that team to wins.
Which is odd, because hes been known to fold. Jackson doesnt need to be superman for 4 quarter. But he cant be inept like he was in the first half against Buffalo, Cleveland, SD, etc...
I think this is overstated. A guy with his record can't be someone who's "known to fold." He just hasn't had much luck in the 3 playoffs he's appeared in during his 4 year career. He joins a lot of historic QBs in that regard.
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you think it's a coincidence that the most gifted QBs are also the best QBs?
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
Jeff George, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Ryan Leaf, Josh Rosen were extremely gifted. Probably a few others as well.
None of them were considered the best QBs during their time or even close to it.
Actually Michael Vick and Randall Cunningham were considered among the top echelon of QBs. Both Vick and Cunningham at various points in their careers were considered the most dangerous QBs. So yes both those guys would greatly help this team.
Guy has a 34-8 record as a starter, and we keep hearing how he's a gimmick that will get figured out. OK...
Guy has a 34-8 record as a starter, and we keep hearing how he's a gimmick that will get figured out. OK...
Stop being so negative. At least they fixed the OL.
I think this is overstated. A guy with his record can't be someone who's "known to fold." He just hasn't had much luck in the 3 playoffs he's appeared in during his 4 year career. He joins a lot of historic QBs in that regard.
Here's an interesting stat on Jackson. He has more 4th quarter comebacks already this year than his previous 3 years combined. And if you combined all his GW drives and 4th quarter comebacks - he never once threw for 200 yards in any of those games. I just found that really interesting.
Lamar has been put in a great position that he never trails by that much or at all going late into games. This year has been different. He has bailed them out many times this year. It will be interesting to see if he can continue doing this.
Guy has a 34-8 record as a starter, and we keep hearing how he's a gimmick that will get figured out. OK...
So even though Jackson was awful against the lowly Lions. Even though Jackson scored a whopping 3 points in the first 40 minutes against a defense last night missing 3 secondary guys - yiu are guaranteeing wins and points scored?
Pretty hard to take this seriously. In fact, guaranteeing lamar would have thrown for over 400 yards against a defense like the Saints like Jones did is a guanrantee too? Right...
Ill make a guarantee.... if jackson was our QB for the last 4 years - you would be complaining about him and not wanting to give him another QB contract like you do with Jones now.
Actually Michael Vick and Randall Cunningham were considered among the top echelon of QBs. Both Vick and Cunningham at various points in their careers were considered the most dangerous QBs. So yes both those guys would greatly help this team.
Vick was never ever considered a top Qb in his era. He had a few good years but was never in Mannings, Brady, Warner, Favre, and whoever else played.
Cunningham has the record I believe for most runner up MVPs..... but he never led his team to a SB or a deep playoff run outside of Minnesota. He was not in the class of elway, kelly, young, montana,etc.
I like the QB's mentioned but only Mahomes has made it through the the gauntlet of the NFL playoffs and that was with a HOF coach, elite weapons', strong OL and a defense during the SB year that could get after the QB.
The other three show great promise but they have more to accomplish and right now three of them are on rookie contracts so things can change quickly if they don't capitalize.
I have been lukewarm on Jones. I do not see as of right now you invest a second contract in him. He has also had the worst supporting cast around him from coaches to players then the other four and it is not really close imv.
However, LJax is so gifted, and a winner, he would make considerably more plays than a guy like Jones. He just as more options on his dashboard. So I think Terps is right to assume we would have more wins because he’s such a great football player…beyond being a great QB.
Hell, one could make an intersection case LJax is the best RB in the league. Or at least in the conversation.
I have been lukewarm on Jones. I do not see as of right now you invest a second contract in him. He has also had the worst supporting cast around him from coaches to players then the other four and it is not really close imv.
Remember when DG said after drafting Jones that he might take the "Green Bay model" approach and have Jones be the apprentice to Eli for a number of years before the official baton hand-off? Right there showed you just how out of touch DG was with the modern game and not optimizing the potential advantages of a QB rookie deal...
But I digressed. To your point about Jones, is anyone really surprised that Jones has played better with better talent around him? Almost any NFL quality QB is going to do better with more talent - right? The real trick in trying to determine if you really have a franchise QB is whether that QB can still produce good results with less. That he actually has the ability to develop the talent around him. When that's the case, than it's easier to manage cap resource because you don't have to over-commit dollars to one side of the ball - like the offense - to prop up the QB...
With Jones, I don't see that piece at all yet.
it is about the complete incompetence of this organization for the past 8-10 years.
Bad GM choices, bad coaching hires, meddling owner, bad draft picks (in may cases, at the top of the draft), bad FA pick ups, suspect position coaching, players not playing above themselves, underachieving, etc...
Yes, there are plenty of bad indiv player choices that could fill 3 BBI's... and this thread hits on a few... but my frustration more about the systemic flaws that have made this franchise a laughing stock of the NFL.
we literally sit here, again in 2021, having little to no idea what we have in our new coach, our #6 draft pick QB, our #2 draft pick Saquon, who is going to run this team next year and whether there is any chance this gets better next year, or the year after... fuking depressing.
Can't imagine why anyone would want to waste energy defending this team or its players on this message board. here is a hint, you are probably wrong and will be proven so over time.
we literally sit here, again in 2021, having little to no idea what we have in our new coach, our #6 draft pick QB, our #2 draft pick Saquon, who is going to run this team next year and whether there is any chance this gets better next year, or the year after... fuking depressing.
That captures it well - another Ground Hog Day Year evolving...
Well, Lamar Jackson hasn't sniffed a championship despite his amazing regular season performances. He's 1-3 in the playoffs with a 56% completion percentage, with 3 TD's and 5 INT's.
Also, GT aren't you the same guy who for years railed against drafting QB's high and basically said you should draft QB's later in the draft and just keep rotating them until their rookie deals run out.
Also, aren't you the same guy who said you wouldn't touch Lamar Jackson when you found out his mother was his agent. I guess you are hoping everyone forgets that fact as you pound your chest and say i told you so.
I won't speak for GT here, but I think he might say that taking that risk would have been worth it if the front office was more stable and reliable - like the Ravens.
I understand it too, its def concerning that he'd make a decision like that.
The problems were here well before Dave and have continued. Little returns from high draft picks and drafting overall but I still say it all goes back to losing the lines. I can give him a pass on a lot of things but losing on the lines in year 4 and not having a physical team is inexcusable.
Giant fans can live with a 8-8 a team that at least is imposing its with a aggressive coach maybe being held back by a QB. Ten years of being pushed around is enough.