IMV, the leading MVP candidates right now are LJax, Herbert, Allen and Mahomes.
Either through smart or bold drafting, we could have grabbed LJax, Herbert or Allen. And had Mara listened more closely to McAdoo, who reportedly campaigned for Mahomes, we could have done exactly what the Chiefs did in 2017 and traded with Buffalo at #10. We easily had the same assets.
Instead, it's another year and we are dead last in the NFCE with little hope in sight...
Brady also could have been a Giant, but almost everyone not taken before the Giants first round pick their draft year could have been a Giant.
The Giants could have done that with Herbet, but to be fair to them I doubt very many franchises would have done that in their shoes.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
This is a Giants forum. The Giants currently suck (and have for a decade). What Giants related things would you like us to post about with joy in our hearts?
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
What was your handle before?
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In comment 15410024 Producer said:
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Who they draft is fair game. Who they pass on is fair game.
Sorry. I hate that the Giants suck - but I’m not going to act like a little bitch every thread. It has to be tiresome for some of you. It’s 20 threads every day of the same nonsense.
There’s something you can do about it - change affiliation and root for other teams.
What was your handle before?
You’ve asked me this before about 10 times. I don’t have one. It doesn’t take a lot of reading to come up with the same people saying the same things over and over and over again.
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
Fair enough, we’ll never know. I just don’t understand telling fans of a miserable team, not to be negative on a forum about the team. There’s nothing really positive to post about. I’m more tired of the organization sucking every year than negative posters.
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Is that 4 would have been playing with shitty talent (which GoTerps says all the time), poor coaches, and a poor GM.
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
Fair enough, we’ll never know. I just don’t understand telling fans of a miserable team, not to be negative on a forum about the team. There’s nothing really positive to post about. I’m more tired of the organization sucking every year than negative posters.
I don’t care if people are negative. Hell I have been too. But do we need 20 threads on the same thing?
DG sucks, Jones sucks, Mara sucks. We get it.
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In comment 15410031 GNewGiants said:
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Is that 4 would have been playing with shitty talent (which GoTerps says all the time), poor coaches, and a poor GM.
You really think any of those 4 qbs has us contending? We are a dumpster fire organization and none of those 4 would make a hell of difference. As a matter of fact , I would put good money that their development would have been severely hampered by our ineptness and we would talk about replacing many of them.
Fair enough, we’ll never know. I just don’t understand telling fans of a miserable team, not to be negative on a forum about the team. There’s nothing really positive to post about. I’m more tired of the organization sucking every year than negative posters.
I don’t care if people are negative. Hell I have been too. But do we need 20 threads on the same thing?
DG sucks, Jones sucks, Mara sucks. We get it.
It sucks but to me this is how some people get through consecutive losing seasons. I used to try and dissect what was wrong, and think of the things thw Giants needed to do in order to improve for next year. I’m so tired of doing that. It’s not even mid-October and we are finished. This team deserves every ounce of criticism and negativity that comes their way.
I don’t know if we would be better with Lamar, Allen or Murray. I do know we are putrid with the picks we did make.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Fine. Throw Brady and Murray in there. We still could have had 4 of the six.
We are both bitter NYG fans. I just chose to aim my bitterness at the incompetent fools that have made these decisions during this Decade of Despair.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
Be honest. When you think about what was in our control during the last four to five drafts, we really had some enormous mishits. Now to see these misses in the running for an MVP is really salt on the a lot of wounds...
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Fine. Throw Brady and Murray in there. We still could have had 4 of the six.
We are both bitter NYG fans. I just chose to aim my bitterness at the incompetent fools that have made these decisions during this Decade of Despair.
This will ge turned around eventually. Maybe not this year or next year but it will. We have hit the worst storm possible
A bad GM + 2 horrific cosches and an unknown as a third + really unlucky when it comes to injuries.
The injuries is what upsets me the most. Losing is one thing - but we haven’t had a healthy team or anything close to it since 2016. I just want the starters to play.
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In comment 15410022 GNewGiants said:
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Hell Murray and Brady may be 1-2.
This is a poor effort to shit on the Giants.
Fine. Throw Brady and Murray in there. We still could have had 4 of the six.
We are both bitter NYG fans. I just chose to aim my bitterness at the incompetent fools that have made these decisions during this Decade of Despair.
This will ge turned around eventually. Maybe not this year or next year but it will. We have hit the worst storm possible
A bad GM + 2 horrific cosches and an unknown as a third + really unlucky when it comes to injuries.
The injuries is what upsets me the most. Losing is one thing - but we haven’t had a healthy team or anything close to it since 2016. I just want the starters to play.
You both are correct. Our misses are devastating, and at some point it has to turn around (right?). We can acknowledge our misses while looking forward to moves that hopefully make our team better. It is what it is.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
It's not hindsight when you say it before it happens.
I have had my disagreements with those who believe Jones can’t do anything right and isn’t even on the level of Trubisky/Mariota, but I am going to need to call you out here. The inability to cap drives off with touchdowns, be it running or passing, is a significant issue and downgrade for Jones. You can’t win by settling for FG.
You bet the Giants to get blown out by Dallas
Also you said you are actively rooting for the team to lose.
Please go away. Your are the WORST.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
Pretty much agree. This is a really ridiculous argument. I guess the other teams who passed up on these players our bed also.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Old, boring, and nothing more than hindsight chest beating.
Yep, we weren't in the market for a QB and he wasn't even considered a top 3-4 QB in the lot that season. How the Tua at #5 looking?
Yet, anyone with an average football IQ would take at least 12 current QBs over Jones right now. And without hesitating.
He’s having a pretty good year. But if you can’t score points to win the games the metrics end up being meaningless. Because that’s Jones job description - score a lot of points to win games.
Right now he is less of a problem. But no one on this board should comfortably say he’s the bonafide solution going forward.
So no regrets taking Jones?
All of the aforementioned QBs we passed on don’t bother you at all.
Right?
I said yesterday that Buffalo deserves all the credit they're getting for drafting Allen but 2 QBs were gone by the time they picked so we'll never know if he was their highest rated QB. He was extremely raw as as a rookie, it would have been a tough ride in NY for him as a rookie. Their HC, OC and GM have done a fantastic job developing him and surrounding him with complimentary talent.
The Giants drafted a RB #2 in that draft. A lot of Giant fans hated the pick the minute it was made because RB is not an impact position in NFL anymore, they aren't worth big money, they get hurt a lot and have short careers. That's exactly how's it played out. That pick set the stage everything that has followed it and gone wrong.
Funny thing is you can play this game all day and in negative ways too:
We could have had Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Eli even longer...
You guys are a broken record.. A few things to consider though- Jackson would have been killed here with our Oline (remember he was drafted to a team that built a powerful OL for Flacco) and more than likely not developed at all as he has now. It is funny how you three talk about the team being absolutely bottom barrel on talent then dare say look what we could have had for QB as if that is the difference in talent on this team. You three like to pretend to be forward thinkers (above everyone else here) and yet you are more baiters (on a number of subject matter), ignoring points that defeat your argument and over emphasizing points to bulk up your argument.
Anyone who watched this past Sunday saw a VERY expensive defensive unit do NOTHING all game long. You guys see Jones as the reason we were losing. Yet, when he was concussed he had us at the goal line for the tying score. This while missing Barkley, SS, Slayton, Gates, SL, Bresden, Thomas and an nicked up KG barely functioning at that point.. But, decide he should have had more points.. Forgetting the dropped pass by KT on 3rd down on the first drive after the turnover- a beautiful pass by Jones that would have kept the drive going. I don't get the hatred you guys have but maybe there is more at play here with your anger/hatred and pure bias.. Guess you guys only know that though.
Funny thing is you can play this game all day and in negative ways too:
We could have had Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Eli even longer...
You guys are a broken record.. A few things to consider though- Jackson would have been killed here with our Oline (remember he was drafted to a team that built a powerful OL for Flacco) and more than likely not developed at all as he has now. It is funny how you three talk about the team being absolutely bottom barrel on talent then dare say look what we could have had for QB as if that is the difference in talent on this team. You three like to pretend to be forward thinkers (above everyone else here) and yet you are more baiters (on a number of subject matter), ignoring points that defeat your argument and over emphasizing points to bulk up your argument.
Anyone who watched this past Sunday saw a VERY expensive defensive unit do NOTHING all game long. You guys see Jones as the reason we were losing. Yet, when he was concussed he had us at the goal line for the tying score. This while missing Barkley, SS, Slayton, Gates, SL, Bresden, Thomas and an nicked up KG barely functioning at that point.. But, decide he should have had more points.. Forgetting the dropped pass by KT on 3rd down on the first drive after the turnover- a beautiful pass by Jones that would have kept the drive going. I don't get the hatred you guys have but maybe there is more at play here with your anger/hatred and pure bias.. Guess you guys only know that though.
Because they arent giants fans, notice none of them posted after the saints game and if they did it was to say Jones really wasnt that inpressive..
They have a schtick and they stick to it and anyone who disagrees with them is just a homer..
They all have admitted to rooting against the giants and basically only care about being right..
Jones is top 5?
How do you figure?
30 teams other than the Giants passed on Jackson. Ravens took a chance and have tailored their offense to fit Jackson. Good for them. The Broncos went with Case Keenum in 2018 while passing on Allen and Jackson. The Titans kept it rolling with Mariota and Gabbert while passing on Jackson.
After seeing the disaster that Haskins was, seeing Alex Smith was on his last legs (no pun intended), Washington passed on Herbert. Miami went with Tua over Herbert.
Supposedly DG wanted Herbert, and while he/the Giants could have let Eli play out the string and waited another year for the chance to draft him, it was no guarantee they'd be able to. Also, I think many here were excited for Jones after his rookie year while acknowledging he needed to clean some things up (fumbles, pocket presence, etc.).
Fast forward to this year. Jones has improved on ball security, has been better moving around the pocket and has been improving. The playcalling has been terrible more often that it has been good this year, especially in the red zone (jet sweep to Engram on 2nd and goal anyone?). I'd love to see this offense, when healthy, with a more modern play caller. Garrett has had his moments, but he has not been a good play caller.
So my overall point is that the draft is a crapshoot. You may have factions wanting certain QB's or other players that DO end up working out while others (Rosen as a huge example) bust hard. I get the last 10 years of lousy football has taken a toll and is therefore causing more hand wringing over the misses, but the Giants are not the only ones to have passed on some of these guys.
When did we have a chance for Brady?
Our big mistake was not going Allen in 2018 - and I get why they didn't at #2.
Interesting question would be who would Buffalo had taken if they had the #2? We'll never know.
And then of course Hebert in 2020.
But again, look at the other teams that passed on Hebert.
Shit happens. We just need to see ourselves out of it.
Wait for the next predictable thread:
NO ONE WANTS THIS JOB BECAUSE OF MARA. NOW WHAT?
It is a failure we will rue for a decade.
Yes u know what’s really worth a discussion? What kind of numbers Jones would have had playing with those teams/personnel.
But stick to your narrative!
Yes u know what’s really worth a discussion? What kind of numbers Jones would have had playing with those teams/personnel.
But stick to your narrative!
This is actually true. Said it earlier in this thread.
Let’s look at Mahomes.
- plays for one of the greatest offensive minds ever
- redshirted his rookie year
- plays with two eventual HOF in Hill and Kelce.
Talk about an ideal scenario.
If the Giants had drafted him like McAdoo wanted… he would have been GROOMED BY MCADOO!!! Is there a worse thing that could have happened. McAdoo was a joke of a coach and still has no coaching jobs since being fired. Mahomes would not be Mahomes under McAdoo tutelage.
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
How does Mahomes look with Pressure in his face all the time? doesnt look to good..
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
I think you should re-watch last years Super Bowl...
Mahomes - Herbert - Jackson - Allen
would shine anywhere.
Jeff George, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Ryan Leaf, Josh Rosen were extremely gifted. Probably a few others as well.
None of them were considered the best QBs during their time or even close to it.
Funny thing is you can play this game all day and in negative ways too:
We could have had Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Eli even longer...
You guys are a broken record.. A few things to consider though- Jackson would have been killed here with our Oline (remember he was drafted to a team that built a powerful OL for Flacco) and more than likely not developed at all as he has now. It is funny how you three talk about the team being absolutely bottom barrel on talent then dare say look what we could have had for QB as if that is the difference in talent on this team. You three like to pretend to be forward thinkers (above everyone else here) and yet you are more baiters (on a number of subject matter), ignoring points that defeat your argument and over emphasizing points to bulk up your argument.
Anyone who watched this past Sunday saw a VERY expensive defensive unit do NOTHING all game long. You guys see Jones as the reason we were losing. Yet, when he was concussed he had us at the goal line for the tying score. This while missing Barkley, SS, Slayton, Gates, SL, Bresden, Thomas and an nicked up KG barely functioning at that point.. But, decide he should have had more points.. Forgetting the dropped pass by KT on 3rd down on the first drive after the turnover- a beautiful pass by Jones that would have kept the drive going. I don't get the hatred you guys have but maybe there is more at play here with your anger/hatred and pure bias.. Guess you guys only know that though.
I certainly hate losing. The endless losing. So I question why we continue to lose. And it seems reasonable to analyze what we overlooked in the draft process. Especially the most recent five years or so once Eli started to decline.
Hey, if you think Jones is the answer at QB and we played our cards right to get him, fair enough. All I know is right now we could have had our hands on four legitimate MVP candidates if we played our cards differently.
Because despite your creative thinking, Jones is NOWHERE in the vicinity of Allen, LJax, Herbert or Mahomes as QB talents. And while you do raise a good point that Jones hasn't had the best talent, I firmly believe any of the QBs I mentioned have the special skill that Jones unfortunately doesn't have - the ability to make other players better. He just needs too much around him - right now - to even sniff success...
I certainly hate losing. The endless losing. So I question why we continue to lose. And it seems reasonable to analyze what we overlooked in the draft process. Especially the most recent five years or so once Eli started to decline.
Hey, if you think Jones is the answer at QB and we played our cards right to get him, fair enough. All I know is right now we could have had our hands on four legitimate MVP candidates if we played our cards differently.
Because despite your creative thinking, Jones is NOWHERE in the vicinity of Allen, LJax, Herbert or Mahomes as QB talents. And while you do raise a good point that Jones hasn't had the best talent, I firmly believe any of the QBs I mentioned have the special skill that Jones unfortunately doesn't have - the ability to make other players better. He just needs too much around him - right now - to even sniff success...
I dont disagree with your idea that Jones isnt close to them. I actually do agree with that. Jones is probably somewhere closer to 15-18 IMO. And if things fell right, he could win. I think the point that is missed that if we replaced the better QBs with Jones or even back to Eli - that those QBs would be as good as they are now. And I strongly disagree with that. We would be better no doubt but Mahomes wouldnt have a SB already, Allen wouldnt be the betting favorite this year, Lamar/mahomes wouldnt have MVPs to their names either.