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I want to blow this dumpster fire up but

Debaser : 10/12/2021 8:30 am
I really don’t think there’s a market for some of our best players

Golladay can be traded but 70 mil?
I don’t think any one would want Evan EngrAm
I can see getting a third for jones
I guess Saquon would a second maybe
Would any one really want to trade for peppers?

There’s is also Leonard  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 8:37 am : link
With his ridiculous salary that I’m sure no one would touchbacks with a stick during trade talks
.  
winoguy : 10/12/2021 8:48 am : link
who are you replacing them with? Much better players I assume....
Ok I'll play.  
section125 : 10/12/2021 8:51 am : link
Yes there would be a market for Engram. Somebody voted for him to be in the Pro Bowl - it certainly did not come from the NY area.

Yes there would be a market for Peppers. With lots of hybrid defense being played, some team with secondary problems could use him

Yes there would be a market for Barkley. What would he do with a team like the Ravens along side Lamar. Now the Ravens like hardnose bullies at RB, but Harbaugh is freakin creative and would find away to get the ball to him to keep Lamar from being exposed. How about Rodgers and they way he loves to get the ball to the flats.

There is no market for the high priced toys because the Giants cannot afford to trade them because of dead money vs the CAP.

I think there a few of teams that would love to have Jones on the cheap for two more years.
Change for the sake of change...  
BamaBlue : 10/12/2021 8:51 am : link
is what got the Giants into this mess. They ditched mediocre players, only to replace them with higher paid mediocre players with 'good character'.

The Giants need to 're-build' not demolish with no plan to re-build. If they had an owner with half-a-brain, this might happen... unfortunately they don't.
Please remember that  
Biteymax22 : 10/12/2021 9:00 am : link
Cutting a player has a big salary isn't necessarily beneficial to the team. Sometimes the way their contract is structured can mean it would actually cost money to cut or trade them.

If you look at Overthecap.Com for 2022 we actually have quite a few players in this scenario such as Golladay, Leo and Adoree. We'd lose cap cutting them.

On the flip side you can create 8mil plus by moving on from Dixon and Rudolph.....
no one would trade for Peppers  
Greg from LI : 10/12/2021 9:06 am : link
Everyone but the Giants knows that he couldn't cover a parked car.
No takers  
richinpa : 10/12/2021 9:09 am : link
I would be surprised of any takers

Nobody is paying for Leo. Don't want to go there with that drama and how it played out. Should have been DGs nail in coffin

Barkley- if he didn't sprain his ankle and started to come on , trade value would be good for a team like Baltimore. But he is damaged goods. I just don't see anyone jumping on this. could we get a second rounder? I would take it. We can get a good RB in Rd2

Engram and Slayton should be shopped to Arizona who needs a TE now and anyone needing a better #2 or #3 WR for slayton?
RE: no one would trade for Peppers  
section125 : 10/12/2021 9:10 am : link
In comment 15410212 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Everyone but the Giants knows that he couldn't cover a parked car.


You just described half the DBs in the NFL...
RE: Change for the sake of change...  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 9:16 am : link
In comment 15410195 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
is what got the Giants into this mess. They ditched mediocre players, only to replace them with higher paid mediocre players with 'good character'.

The Giants need to 're-build' not demolish with no plan to re-build. If they had an owner with half-a-brain, this might happen... unfortunately they don't.


You would trade for draft picks and draft better. That is what rebuilding teams do. Yes while I agree gettle replaced reese's jag for many of his own ; he also relied basically on the free agent market to fill the void of veterans he jettisoned to replace them with basically young jags who can't play.

But that is in the past. At the end of the day you have a RB who is always hurt and rushes for about 60 yards on average; a QB who is basically a backup; and all you have is a tackle.

So you need a QB and a coach. Toney can stay just because he's a rookie and is the only decent thing I've seen since victor cruz.
People conplaining about Leonard Williams  
nygiants16 : 10/12/2021 9:16 am : link
just proves that people just look at stats to prove their point rather than actually watch the game..He is playing well, just becajse he doesnt have 8 sacks doesnt mean he is not playing well..

You cant just blow it up after every losing season, giants have a lot of picks coming up, cap will continue to go up, how about just add to what the Gianta do have, rather than getting rid of their good players?

First thing people go to after a losing season is get rid of everybody, thats not how it works..
RE: RE: Change for the sake of change...  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 9:18 am : link
In comment 15410234 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15410195 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


is what got the Giants into this mess. They ditched mediocre players, only to replace them with higher paid mediocre players with 'good character'.

The Giants need to 're-build' not demolish with no plan to re-build. If they had an owner with half-a-brain, this might happen... unfortunately they don't.



You would trade for draft picks and draft better. That is what rebuilding teams do. Yes while I agree gettle replaced reese's jag for many of his own ; he also relied basically on the free agent market to fill the void of veterans he jettisoned to replace them with basically young jags who can't play.

But that is in the past. At the end of the day you have a RB who is always hurt and rushes for about 60 yards on average; a QB who is basically a backup; and all you have is a tackle.

So you need a QB and a coach. Toney can stay just because he's a rookie and is the only decent thing I've seen since victor cruz.


Yea and I',m sorry but Odell was niot a mediocre player. JPP was not either. Neither was jack rabbit and neither was Eli.
RE: People conplaining about Leonard Williams  
rsjem1979 : 10/12/2021 9:20 am : link
In comment 15410236 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
just proves that people just look at stats to prove their point rather than actually watch the game..He is playing well, just becajse he doesnt have 8 sacks doesnt mean he is not playing well..


Leonard Williams is the 6th highest paid defensive player in the NFL. "Playing well" should be a given, what impact is he having?

Bear in mind, I'm not blaming Williams for being the player he's pretty much always been. I'm blaming the guy who paid him to be someone he's not.
Who would trade for any  
Harvest Blend : 10/12/2021 9:23 am : link
of this garbage? They're either pending UFA's or grossly overpaid.

They should have just eaten shit 3 or 4 years ago but I guess they're too proud and now the shit eating is constant.
RE: RE: People conplaining about Leonard Williams  
nygiants16 : 10/12/2021 9:25 am : link
In comment 15410247 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 15410236 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


just proves that people just look at stats to prove their point rather than actually watch the game..He is playing well, just becajse he doesnt have 8 sacks doesnt mean he is not playing well..




Leonard Williams is the 6th highest paid defensive player in the NFL. "Playing well" should be a given, what impact is he having?

Bear in mind, I'm not blaming Williams for being the player he's pretty much always been. I'm blaming the guy who paid him to be someone he's not.


you know he is doubled on 90% of snaps right? he has the same amount of stats as Aaron Donald and no he is not aaron donald but the fsct remains..

Sacks are not the end all be all especially for a 3-4 defensice end
yea Leonard  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 9:27 am : link
he got that salary because gettle was desperate to have some type of impact on defense and let the jets of all things take him to the cleaners. They had snacks harrison who pretty muched stopped the run to who I am sure is making a fraction of what leanard was.

The time to build on what you had was long gone. Gettle blew that up, which looking back on it ; didn't seem like such a bad idea. I mean was 40 yr old Eli going to really win anything ? But this tram is so bad and is just so flawed at the fundamental level.

You have a tackle; that is it. You need a QB and a coach and need to jettison so overprived free agents and draft better with a lot of picks.
RE: RE: RE: People conplaining about Leonard Williams  
Angel Eyes : 10/12/2021 9:27 am : link
In comment 15410258 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15410247 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410236 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


just proves that people just look at stats to prove their point rather than actually watch the game..He is playing well, just becajse he doesnt have 8 sacks doesnt mean he is not playing well..




Leonard Williams is the 6th highest paid defensive player in the NFL. "Playing well" should be a given, what impact is he having?

Bear in mind, I'm not blaming Williams for being the player he's pretty much always been. I'm blaming the guy who paid him to be someone he's not.



you know he is doubled on 90% of snaps right? he has the same amount of stats as Aaron Donald and no he is not aaron donald but the fsct remains..

Sacks are not the end all be all especially for a 3-4 defensice end

So why did we pay him all that money to take up blockers? If that’s what his job is he isn’t doing it very well as the rest of the defense, particularly the edges, haven’t been getting home to the quarterback much.
I think there would be a pretty good market for Peppers...  
BillKo : 10/12/2021 9:28 am : link
...yes he is not good in coverage, but a smart DC would use him the right way. He's athletic and can tackle...in the box player/hybrid LB.

Plus, he's a rental with no incentive to resign. Perfect for a playoff team. Probably would be a great Raven, I could see them using him perfectly.

He's certainly not resigning here so he's one guy (along with probably Shep) that I would move. Obviously Engram.

Not sure of Shep's contract though...


You'll get much more for Jones than Saquon.  
Section331 : 10/12/2021 9:30 am : link
Who's giving up a 2nd for SB? If there is, see ya!

I disagree that there wouldn't be a market for Engram. He's in the last year of his deal, so there is no long term commitment. He can be a useful piece for a contender. You're not getting a top pick for him, but I could see a 4th or 5th.

As I said yesterday, everyone is available except for Toney, Thomas, Ojulari and probably Jones (although for a 1st rounder, I would seriously consider it).
RE: yea Leonard  
KDavies : 10/12/2021 9:30 am : link
In comment 15410261 Debaser said:
Quote:
he got that salary because gettle was desperate to have some type of impact on defense and let the jets of all things take him to the cleaners. They had snacks harrison who pretty muched stopped the run to who I am sure is making a fraction of what leanard was.

The time to build on what you had was long gone. Gettle blew that up, which looking back on it ; didn't seem like such a bad idea. I mean was 40 yr old Eli going to really win anything ? But this tram is so bad and is just so flawed at the fundamental level.

You have a tackle; that is it. You need a QB and a coach and need to jettison so overprived free agents and draft better with a lot of picks.


The Jets took the Giants to the cleaners on the LW trade? Giants traded a 3rd and a 5th. LW made far more of an impact than most 3rd rounders. Whether you have a problem with the contract is another issue.
Aaron Donald  
ajr2456 : 10/12/2021 9:34 am : link
Has double the sacks of Williams this year. 88.5 in his career to Williams’ 33 in only one less year. Their stats are nowhere near the same.
"He has the same stats as aaron donald" flies about as well  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/12/2021 9:36 am : link
as "Jones has a higher passer rating than Mahomes on deep balls".
I was watching the ravens last night  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 9:37 am : link
they don't need our shitty players.
All of us here were alive for Strahan  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/12/2021 9:37 am : link
Umenyiora and Tuck. We know what a top pass rusher looks like.

Stop pretending you don't.
RE: RE: yea Leonard  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 9:40 am : link
In comment 15410270 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15410261 Debaser said:


Quote:


he got that salary because gettle was desperate to have some type of impact on defense and let the jets of all things take him to the cleaners. They had snacks harrison who pretty muched stopped the run to who I am sure is making a fraction of what leanard was.

The time to build on what you had was long gone. Gettle blew that up, which looking back on it ; didn't seem like such a bad idea. I mean was 40 yr old Eli going to really win anything ? But this tram is so bad and is just so flawed at the fundamental level.

You have a tackle; that is it. You need a QB and a coach and need to jettison so overprived free agents and draft better with a lot of picks.



The Jets took the Giants to the cleaners on the LW trade? Giants traded a 3rd and a 5th. LW made far more of an impact than most 3rd rounders. Whether you have a problem with the contract is another issue.


I guess yea but Leanard was going to become a free agent anyway so they bascially just gave away those pics for free and signed him anyway to some ridiculous deal.
Whoevwr said Williams was a great pass rusher  
nygiants16 : 10/12/2021 9:42 am : link
and i also said he is not aaron donald but his stats are similar this year which they are...

People claiming Williams has stolen money jist look at sack numbers and nothing else, he has made some big plays on defense, just because he doesnt have a bunch of sacks doesnt mean he is playing bad
The Ravens have one of the  
Dnew15 : 10/12/2021 9:55 am : link
best FO in the league.

THey understand the fact that you can win games w/o paying far a RB.
RE: Ok I'll play.  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 9:57 am : link

Quote:

I think there a few of teams that would love to have Jones on the cheap for two more years.


Like where? What would anyone do with a QB who doesn't throw TDs? I guess he could back up bridgewater in denver for a 3rd rnd pic?
Gregory  
ajr2456 : 10/12/2021 9:59 am : link
Had more pressures last week than Williams has all year.
RE: Gregory  
nygiants16 : 10/12/2021 10:06 am : link
In comment 15410348 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Had more pressures last week than Williams has all year.


They also play dofferent positions
RE: RE: Gregory  
ajr2456 : 10/12/2021 10:34 am : link
In comment 15410359 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15410348 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Had more pressures last week than Williams has all year.



They also play dofferent positions


So? If Williams job is to only eat up blockers whyd we pay him $25 million? Get to the quarterback
RE: no one would trade for Peppers  
NoPeanutz : 10/12/2021 10:38 am : link
In comment 15410212 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Everyone but the Giants knows that he couldn't cover a parked car.

We might have said that about Ereck Flowers. He's a G for the ages now.
RE: RE: RE: Gregory  
section125 : 10/12/2021 10:39 am : link
In comment 15410431 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15410359 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410348 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Had more pressures last week than Williams has all year.



They also play dofferent positions



So? If Williams job is to only eat up blockers whyd we pay him $25 million? Get to the quarterback


Do we need to go through this again. He is not a classic get after it 4-3 DE.
You keep twisting this argument around  
Greg from LI : 10/12/2021 10:44 am : link
No one's saying Williams is a bad player. He's not. He's a good solid player. However, he's not playing commensurate with his cost. He had a career year last year, got big bucks, and now he's back to being merely good.

He's providing poor value.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gregory  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/12/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15410444 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15410431 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410359 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410348 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Had more pressures last week than Williams has all year.



They also play dofferent positions



So? If Williams job is to only eat up blockers whyd we pay him $25 million? Get to the quarterback



Do we need to go through this again. He is not a classic get after it 4-3 DE.


But we're paying him for that.

I don’t want to blow this dumpster fire up  
cosmicj : 10/12/2021 10:49 am : link
I want an independent search committee to be formed by Mara led by a recognized NFL expert to identify a set of outside GM candidates, recommend one who is an upcoming leading mind in personnel evaluation and team construction. Then watch as that expert carefully analyzes the roster and makes long-term moves to restore the organization’s pride.

“Blowing it up” isn’t the way to go. Proceeding analytically & insightfully is the way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gregory  
ajr2456 : 10/12/2021 10:50 am : link
In comment 15410444 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15410431 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410359 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410348 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Had more pressures last week than Williams has all year.



They also play dofferent positions



So? If Williams job is to only eat up blockers whyd we pay him $25 million? Get to the quarterback



Do we need to go through this again. He is not a classic get after it 4-3 DE.


Then why did we pay him $25 million?
DG paid millions  
thrunthrublue : 10/12/2021 10:51 am : link
For dollar store items. He must go….priority #1.
Williams  
ajr2456 : 10/12/2021 10:52 am : link
“Isn’t a classic get after it 4-3 end” but we paid him because he had a double digit sack year like a get after it 4-3 end.

Makes sense for this depressing franchise.
RE: You keep twisting this argument around  
section125 : 10/12/2021 10:53 am : link
In comment 15410455 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
No one's saying Williams is a bad player. He's not. He's a good solid player. However, he's not playing commensurate with his cost. He had a career year last year, got big bucks, and now he's back to being merely good.

He's providing poor value.


You are not wrong, except that LWs statistics had been fairly constant, except last year he actually got sacks. His pressures and QB hits had been very close year after year and last year he managed to finish the deal. So yeah he had a "career" year.

I do not think he is getting his usual pressure and hits this season. However, FWIW, people did not think a big contract would turn him into Albert Haynesworth. And, IIRC, Sy said what makes LW so good will last through his contract because it is based on power, not quick twitch.

I do think what has hurt LW is the rest of the defense (or whatever Graham is trying to accomplish) is not working.

But overall, you are correct, he isn't playing up to $20 mill per no matter what the reason.
eh, he showed fairly significant improvements in a few stats  
Greg from LI : 10/12/2021 10:58 am : link
Not just sacks

In TFLs - 3 (2017), 11 (2018), 2 (2019), 14 (2020)
In QB hits: 25 (2017), 20 (2018), 16 (2019), 30 (2020)
Tackles: 47 (2017), 42 (2018), 46 (2019), 57 (2020)
RE: RE: RE: RE: People conplaining about Leonard Williams  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/12/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15410262 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15410258 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410247 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


In comment 15410236 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


just proves that people just look at stats to prove their point rather than actually watch the game..He is playing well, just becajse he doesnt have 8 sacks doesnt mean he is not playing well..




Leonard Williams is the 6th highest paid defensive player in the NFL. "Playing well" should be a given, what impact is he having?

Bear in mind, I'm not blaming Williams for being the player he's pretty much always been. I'm blaming the guy who paid him to be someone he's not.



you know he is doubled on 90% of snaps right? he has the same amount of stats as Aaron Donald and no he is not aaron donald but the fsct remains..

Sacks are not the end all be all especially for a 3-4 defensice end


So why did we pay him all that money to take up blockers? If that’s what his job is he isn’t doing it very well as the rest of the defense, particularly the edges, haven’t been getting home to the quarterback much.
BINGO our edge players suck... cant get tot he QB and cannot set the edge on runs... Losing Tomlinson really affected Williams and the middle Big Dex isnt playing like they thought.
DG has to go and take most of the scouts and FO with him.. need to modernize
Bradberry  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 11:56 am : link
How can we forget him? Although he is one of the few that I can see someone trading for. We'd probably get smoked on the deal but still.
RE: I don’t want to blow this dumpster fire up  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15410464 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I want an independent search committee to be formed by Mara led by a recognized NFL expert to identify a set of outside GM candidates, recommend one who is an upcoming leading mind in personnel evaluation and team construction. Then watch as that expert carefully analyzes the roster and makes long-term moves to restore the organization’s pride.

“Blowing it up” isn’t the way to go. Proceeding analytically & insightfully is the way.


WHy? Are you scared of being a 0 win team instead of a 1 win team? Or aree we happy being a 6 win team for 3 more years while we play it safe?
RE: Please remember that  
Debaser : 10/12/2021 2:23 pm : link
In comment 15410203 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Cutting a player has a big salary isn't necessarily beneficial to the team. Sometimes the way their contract is structured can mean it would actually cost money to cut or trade them.

If you look at Overthecap.Com for 2022 we actually have quite a few players in this scenario such as Golladay, Leo and Adoree. We'd lose cap cutting them.

On the flip side you can create 8mil plus by moving on from Dixon and Rudolph.....


OK fine you keep golladay then. New QB is going to need someone to throw to. so you might as well keep ross and Toney since he is cheap and a rookie respectively. So there is Thomas on top of that too.... But everyone else is gone.
Debaser  
Joe Beckwith : 10/12/2021 5:35 pm : link
Other than EE you mentioned injured players who have a tendency to be injured, the later includes EE.
I’d offer them up but the counteroffer would likely be way to low to use it to get anyone in the top 100.
But I’d still let it be known we are listening to offers.
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