Unless I’m missing some folks the only players out for the season are: Lemieux, Gates, Martinez, and the DB Williams.
All of the other myriad of current injuries should be back on the field, at least by mid-season. While the division and playoffs are long gone (if they were ever in play) there’s no reason why this team can’t be evaluated from: Jones, overall roster, HC, other coaches and GM and determine what will need to be done, who will be retained next year and will this team need to be blown up.
There seems to be a belief by analysis (ESPN) that this rash of injuries means that Gettleman and crew will get a do over and we will have to go into a 5th year of this administration. Not sure why. Do you believe that these injuries will mean a free pass?
But yea, he s looking for reasons to not make changes, Ok
That the Giants have been lousy, no one can deny. But continuing to hold onto the Marra narrative, “ he won’t change” is just as wrong as the narrative, that as long as he sells tickets, he doesn’t care.
Personally I hope he doesn’t move on from Judge, changing coaches every two years hasn’t worked out so well.
That s a narrative based on fact, not fiction
I hate to break it to you, but letting Ernie Accorsi replace Jerry Reese with another one of his disciples and pressing forward with the existing roster plus some pricey free agents and an idiotic draft pick isn't "change."
John Mara has not changed anything about his organization's overall philosophy. McAdoo was a casualty of the Eli Manning saga, and Mara let Gettleman throw Shurmur overboard for failing to win with a piece of shit roster. I'm no Shurmur fan, but Gettleman should have been escorted out of the building right behind him.
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And Bradberry sure isn't playing like it this season. Last year is looking like a major fluke since he was never more than pretty good at Carolina.
Leonard Williams in every statistical category was on the same level as Aaron Donald last year. Aaron Donald might be the number 1 defensive player in the game.
From the Post "Or maybe this is the ugly truth no one wants to face: The Giants defense’s strong performance last season, especially during the 5-3 finish, was fueled by a perfect storm of career-best years and was not some starting point to build upon"
https://nypost.com/2021/10/11/the-ugly-truth-about-giants-underachieving-defense/
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In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said:
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...is having an emotional breakdown.
I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such.
Do you watch the rest of the league?
This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it.
This is a complete teardown project.
The teardown should have started a week following the 2017 season. It didn't then and it won't now.
Huh? They have been tearing it down and building it back up for ten fucking years now.
Failure doesn't mean inactivity. The Giants most definitely tore it down. They still suck but they definitely rebuilt the roster.
COACHING. It's always coaching. It's why I preached that the Giants better be damn sure the guy they are replacing Coughlin with is a clear cut upgrade and a guy you're confident in, or this cycle could go on forever. I was told Coughlin was too old. Debatable, but maybe. Sadly, we still haven't found an adequate head coach since then.
It's worth pointing out that the Giants have hired 2 young unproven HCs since Shurmur and even Shurmur wasn't exactly a HC with legit experience. He was just another failed experiment that got another shot in NY.
We need a real fucking HC. Judge has all the answers but cannot get his team to win. MAybe he gets another year with a new GM. Yea that's going to solve all our problems. Sure it will.
hiring people you're familiar with isn't THE GIANTS WAY. everyone does that in every industry.
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In comment 15410400 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said:
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...is having an emotional breakdown.
I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such.
Do you watch the rest of the league?
This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it.
This is a complete teardown project.
The teardown should have started a week following the 2017 season. It didn't then and it won't now.
Huh? They have been tearing it down and building it back up for ten fucking years now.
Failure doesn't mean inactivity. The Giants most definitely tore it down. They still suck but they definitely rebuilt the roster.
COACHING. It's always coaching. It's why I preached that the Giants better be damn sure the guy they are replacing Coughlin with is a clear cut upgrade and a guy you're confident in, or this cycle could go on forever. I was told Coughlin was too old. Debatable, but maybe. Sadly, we still haven't found an adequate head coach since then.
It's worth pointing out that the Giants have hired 2 young unproven HCs since Shurmur and even Shurmur wasn't exactly a HC with legit experience. He was just another failed experiment that got another shot in NY.
We need a real fucking HC. Judge has all the answers but cannot get his team to win. MAybe he gets another year with a new GM. Yea that's going to solve all our problems. Sure it will.
Tearing it down by eating shit, not paying aging QB's 20+m a year to make "one more run", not going crazy in FA, accumulating draft assets and not mortgaging the future to pay for the sins of the past.
Just my opinion though I'll certainly concede that the coaching hires have been less than ideal.
This team wouldn't know how to win an ugly win if it walked right up to them. They refuse to win that early September game that swings the record from god fucking awful to manageable. And why? Because the team doesn't operate itself in a fashion that creates space and opportunity for its talented players. Maybe they don't have enough star talent, the last time they did operate this way was 2015 when the offense scored 427 pts on the backs of Eli and Beckham. Of course the D was historically bad...
Sunday's game was on the defense as usual but they weren't winning that game with every key offensive piece on the shelf, chalk that one up to bad luck and playing a better team. I can't chalk up Washington and ATL to anything other than a bad team doing bad things at bad moments yet still having a shot to win the game, but nope. To me that's coaching.
Don't care about specific play calls anymore. I don't care about FGs from the 40 or going for it. I care about results. I care about the identity of this team. I care about the defense looking like it kind of cares, but not caring like the Calais Campbell cares. Or how Aaron Donald cares. No one plays defense anymore? Wrong, the Giants don't play defense anymore. Fuck everyone associated with that.
Please panic. Overspend. I don't give a fuck anymore.
Or, dump all these players that appear to suck right now and watch them go elsewhere and play to their potential. Go ahead and dump Bradbury, Williams, Ryan, and the rest and let's start this whole thing over again. It should only take 2-3 years.
I give up. So sick of the debates and blaming the players and the coaches and demanding blood every 2 years. Wipe out the GM and bring in a new shiny GM and let him watch Judge fail and then great he gets his own guy and then it's time for a new QB and then we find out the new HC sucks too and on and on the wheel of failure spins.
The Giants need to cheat, lie and steal a real fucking HC/architect and fast. Everything else is bullshit.
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In comment 15410400 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said:
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...is having an emotional breakdown.
I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such.
Do you watch the rest of the league?
This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it.
This is a complete teardown project.
I do.
It's amazing what a couple of elite players can do for several other non-elite players.
Also, if the team is so bad...we're already "torn down," so the transition should be smooth, no?!
Your last statement reflects no understanding of:
1) The salary cap penalties of undoing what they did this year
2) The power of sentimentality and nostalgia has over the Giants
The woe is me here is gross.
You said before the season that the Giants were a playoff team until they weren't. Have they reached that threshold for you yet or is the candle still burning?
No sir, I have my feet firmly planted. I am not under some impression that my anger is somehow helpful with regards to the Giants.
I am not pretending that my hot takes are somehow more important than anyone elses.
I tune is on Sunday for enjoyment (I found some on Sunday).
I don't love all of the picks/acquisitions but I cheer for them. I don't like all of the decisions, but I support them.
I don't wallow in misery and I don't take enjoyment in the failures of others. Not being emotionally critical makes that a little easier.
I do think that the Giants playoff opportunity may well be gone. The injuries are pretty damning.
The delusions come from feeling like the fans know...they don't. Losing sucks, but it doesn't make those that don't know, suddenly smarter than the one's doing the actual losing.
But, the Giants are my 2nd favorite team, so maybe I have an emotional advantage. My #1 is in position to play for a state championship.
"IF" DG is let go, besides replacing him with somebody "OUTSIDE" the organization, something needs to be done with the scouting and drafting. We have two 1st, a 2nd, and two 3rd next April. Giants cannot be coming back in 2025 wondering why none need to be resigned then or in 2026.
Excellent point and a huge miscalculation from Gettleman. You can't tie up your cap like that when you are still building. Big mistake by the front office that should result them in cleaning house.
IS that you Dave? 4-1?
Thanks for the laugh.
We were right there to win the Denver game? Or was it the "crummy" Cowboys you think?
Get draft picks by continuing to trade down.
I think that there is some elite talent on the roster but I agree that they are a few short of teams that are winning right now.
Where is the "elite talent"? Toney and Thomas, and that is it. Jones may prove to be an above average starter, but I don't see elite. Ojulari looks like he could develop into a very nice player, but if he were elite, we'd be seeing flashes of it now.
I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such.
That's not much of an accomplishment though. No team, no matter how bad, is "without good players." Hell, I'd wager that no bad team in history has been without good players.
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I think that there is some elite talent on the roster but I agree that they are a few short of teams that are winning right now.
Where is the "elite talent"? Toney and Thomas, and that is it. Jones may prove to be an above average starter, but I don't see elite. Ojulari looks like he could develop into a very nice player, but if he were elite, we'd be seeing flashes of it now.
Toney had one good game( looked great but its one game). And Thomas has been good but those guys are not elite talent yet. Promising yes but not elite.
Lets be honest the Giants have question marks all over the roster and the coaching staff is a complete unknown...
You see any guys like that? I don't.There's a lot of hype,and that goes pretty far.But as far as what's on the field,I'd have to say that's an exaggeration.
The new GM needs to recognize, evaluate and add talent -Giants are a few players on D away from being a very good competitive team.. D needs more talent. The OL tackles look like they are coming together and Hopefully we get the Guard to play, Hernandez has been good this season too -especially w Solder next to him.. . But this line is coming together..
Need to Keep adding talent at LBr and DE -They have the QB the line needs help for rotational purpose but 3 players are very good already. This will be a D rich draft.
Huh? They have been tearing it down and building it back up for ten fucking years now.
I see the "tearing it down," but I disagree about the "building it back up."
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Is likely to retire this year. I don’t think he needs to be forced out.
He shouldn't last long enough to retire. He should be escorted out of the building holding a box with all his shit in it.
Should have happened two years ago, frankly.
For those asking...
DG will "retire" the FO will offer him another job within the organization..DG will accept...then he'll "assist" with the hiring of the new GM since they value his knowledge, experience and expertise...then they'll hire Kevin Abrams after an "exhaustive" search...
And there....my friends...you have the Giants Way...or as it used to be referred - Jints Central.
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Huh? They have been tearing it down and building it back up for ten fucking years now.
I see the "tearing it down," but I disagree about the "building it back up."
To provide a specific example, sure, trading Odell Beckham in a better-late-than-never move could be construed as part of a tear-down, but can you argue that there was a reciprocal rebuild there?
And filling the positional hole Beckham left behind with Golden Tate and his absurd contract was like satire.
hiring people you're familiar with isn't THE GIANTS WAY. everyone does that in every industry.
The "Giants Way" is this...
This is the same garbage we've heard now for many years and you are just repeating the same tired stuff.
1-- Every year posters like you claim that we NOW have an OL coach.
2-- Sure Gates with his broken leg will bounce back without a doubt, right?
3-- And Lemieux - of course he’ll just step right in and be fine, right? After all, he is a Giant and any Giant that is young will automatically improve because Giants fans say-so, right? Because Lemieux is such a lock at OL?
4-- Sure ofc with Peart it MUST BE the injury, right? This is the same tired stuff we heard about Solder for 2 straight years, now we have a new guy to use the injury excuse. When a NY Giant has an injury, he can't perform while nearly many other players on other teams are banged up with injuries yet they seem to perform.
5-- When are posters such as yourself going to stop and just say you are tired of looking forward to an OL that will at best just hold it-s own rather than try to dominate the LOS?
It's just awful awful resource management. Instead of making the OL and pass rush a priority, Gettleman wasted 40% of the team's draft picks the past 3 years on DBs... and STILL had to shell out huge FA money for starting DBs.
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I think that there is some elite talent on the roster but I agree that they are a few short of teams that are winning right now.
Where is the "elite talent"? Toney and Thomas, and that is it. Jones may prove to be an above average starter, but I don't see elite. Ojulari looks like he could develop into a very nice player, but if he were elite, we'd be seeing flashes of it now.
Agree Section, there really is no elite talent on the roster. Some talented players at a few positions (LT, WR, DL, maybe 1-2 in Secondary) that could be considered good, but not elite.
Fans overstating the roster during the offseason is one thing. But doing it while the losses pile up in front of their eyes just shows a lack of objectivity.
Gettleman is gone.
The "retirement speech" he will give after the season has already been drafted for him.
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Finally have an o line coach. Gates, Lemeuix will be back next year. Peary showed signs last week, maybe his back has finally healed from offseason.
This is the same garbage we've heard now for many years and you are just repeating the same tired stuff.
1-- Every year posters like you claim that we NOW have an OL coach.
2-- Sure Gates with his broken leg will bounce back without a doubt, right?
3-- And Lemieux - of course he’ll just step right in and be fine, right? After all, he is a Giant and any Giant that is young will automatically improve because Giants fans say-so, right? Because Lemieux is such a lock at OL?
4-- Sure ofc with Peart it MUST BE the injury, right? This is the same tired stuff we heard about Solder for 2 straight years, now we have a new guy to use the injury excuse. When a NY Giant has an injury, he can't perform while nearly many other players on other teams are banged up with injuries yet they seem to perform.
5-- When are posters such as yourself going to stop and just say you are tired of looking forward to an OL that will at best just hold it-s own rather than try to dominate the LOS?
No one is "settling."
The bar has not been lowered.
No one is ok with mediocrity.
Some of us recognize that we have less control of the situation than we do controlling the weather.
These type of definitive statements are stupid.
The team he has built cannot do any of those things. They are among the league's worst in all three areas. So by his own - old school - logic Gettleman has failed miserably. It was a bad strategy, poorly executed. Now its Gettleman's turn.
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Gettleman is going nowhere this offseason. He has probably another 2 more years before Mara says enough. Do you guys really believe for one moment that Gettleman is on the hot seat? Knowing how Mara operates my bet is Gettleman has a longer leash than most realize. So guys we got another year or two of this. Take your blood pressure meds--you will need it.
These type of definitive statements are stupid.
We will see.
Mara was hoping for a competitive team. If the losses pile up, blow-outs, locker room whispering, boos at home, fire Judge chants it could be ugly. At that point I don't the narrative can be anything other than about Mara. Would he then fire himself as well as all family members involved in football decisions? Ten years of lousy football may be enough to do that but who knows.
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In comment 15410541 Giants73 said:
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Finally have an o line coach. Gates, Lemeuix will be back next year. Peary showed signs last week, maybe his back has finally healed from offseason.
This is the same garbage we've heard now for many years and you are just repeating the same tired stuff.
1-- Every year posters like you claim that we NOW have an OL coach.
2-- Sure Gates with his broken leg will bounce back without a doubt, right?
3-- And Lemieux - of course he’ll just step right in and be fine, right? After all, he is a Giant and any Giant that is young will automatically improve because Giants fans say-so, right? Because Lemieux is such a lock at OL?
4-- Sure ofc with Peart it MUST BE the injury, right? This is the same tired stuff we heard about Solder for 2 straight years, now we have a new guy to use the injury excuse. When a NY Giant has an injury, he can't perform while nearly many other players on other teams are banged up with injuries yet they seem to perform.
5-- When are posters such as yourself going to stop and just say you are tired of looking forward to an OL that will at best just hold it-s own rather than try to dominate the LOS?
To be fair, we also hear the antithesis of the things that you are suggesting that we always hear.
No one is "settling."
The bar has not been lowered.
No one is ok with mediocrity.
Some of us recognize that we have less control of the situation than we do controlling the weather.
Some of us recognize that? So you think the other posters are confused over the control they have and it results in them post dissenting views of the team?
There will be a new GM making those first two picks.
Mara will have that epiphany to go outside the org like his dad did in 1979.
Mark. It. Down.
Happy days are here again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There will be a new GM making those first two picks.
Mara will have that epiphany to go outside the org like his dad did in 1979.
Mark. It. Down.
Happy days are here again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think DG will be gone (I felt that he would retire after this season regardless of results, just a feeling, not based on anything), but you have to realise that it's very possible that they can hire someone worse. Just because he's gone doesn't mean anything if the new guy isn't any better.
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Coaches, and 2 different GM s in the past 7 seasons.
But yea, he s looking for reasons to not make changes, Ok
That the Giants have been lousy, no one can deny. But continuing to hold onto the Marra narrative, “ he won’t change” is just as wrong as the narrative, that as long as he sells tickets, he doesn’t care.
Personally I hope he doesn’t move on from Judge, changing coaches every two years hasn’t worked out so well.
That s a narrative based on fact, not fiction
I hate to break it to you, but letting Ernie Accorsi replace Jerry Reese with another one of his disciples and pressing forward with the existing roster plus some pricey free agents and an idiotic draft pick isn't "change."
John Mara has not changed anything about his organization's overall philosophy. McAdoo was a casualty of the Eli Manning saga, and Mara let Gettleman throw Shurmur overboard for failing to win with a piece of shit roster. I'm no Shurmur fan, but Gettleman should have been escorted out of the building right behind him.
Going to a guy who was the architect of two Super Bowl wins was a bad idea?
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In comment 15410429 joeinpa said:
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Coaches, and 2 different GM s in the past 7 seasons.
But yea, he s looking for reasons to not make changes, Ok
That the Giants have been lousy, no one can deny. But continuing to hold onto the Marra narrative, “ he won’t change” is just as wrong as the narrative, that as long as he sells tickets, he doesn’t care.
Personally I hope he doesn’t move on from Judge, changing coaches every two years hasn’t worked out so well.
That s a narrative based on fact, not fiction
I hate to break it to you, but letting Ernie Accorsi replace Jerry Reese with another one of his disciples and pressing forward with the existing roster plus some pricey free agents and an idiotic draft pick isn't "change."
John Mara has not changed anything about his organization's overall philosophy. McAdoo was a casualty of the Eli Manning saga, and Mara let Gettleman throw Shurmur overboard for failing to win with a piece of shit roster. I'm no Shurmur fan, but Gettleman should have been escorted out of the building right behind him.
Going to a guy who was the architect of two Super Bowl wins was a bad idea?
Not conducting a legitimate GM search was a mistake, yes.
Get them the fuck out of decision making.
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In comment 15410453 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15410429 joeinpa said:
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Coaches, and 2 different GM s in the past 7 seasons.
But yea, he s looking for reasons to not make changes, Ok
That the Giants have been lousy, no one can deny. But continuing to hold onto the Marra narrative, “ he won’t change” is just as wrong as the narrative, that as long as he sells tickets, he doesn’t care.
Personally I hope he doesn’t move on from Judge, changing coaches every two years hasn’t worked out so well.
That s a narrative based on fact, not fiction
I hate to break it to you, but letting Ernie Accorsi replace Jerry Reese with another one of his disciples and pressing forward with the existing roster plus some pricey free agents and an idiotic draft pick isn't "change."
John Mara has not changed anything about his organization's overall philosophy. McAdoo was a casualty of the Eli Manning saga, and Mara let Gettleman throw Shurmur overboard for failing to win with a piece of shit roster. I'm no Shurmur fan, but Gettleman should have been escorted out of the building right behind him.
Going to a guy who was the architect of two Super Bowl wins was a bad idea?
Not conducting a legitimate GM search was a mistake, yes.
Well Ernie probably recommended Gettleman.
Not saying it was the correct choice. I was rebuffing the suggestion that Mara wouldn’t be making changes if the year plays out poorly
If Gettleman is shown the door @ season's end-God willing-Mara better not listen to people in the 'Giants family'. This organization desperately needs outside blood, a person who can come in & give a fair & honest assessment on what's wrong & how it can be fixed.
In short, Mara needs to get the fuck out of his comfort zone. It sure as hell isn't working.