Media narrative that due to injuries FO/GM get a do over

Mara refuses to believe that "the Giants Way" isn't working, and he's looking for any excuse to dismiss the results. Dave might "retire" at the end of the year, but I'd expect to see Abrams as GM in that case. Judge stays. Nothing changes. Pass the hemlock.

with only 1 notable season ending injury (Martinez). So, I don't think the injury defense will float. Gettleman and Graham are dead-men walking.

and it could certainly happen again. How much recent proof do you require?

In comment 15410334 endwerc said:

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Mara refuses to believe that "the Giants Way" isn't working, and he's looking for any excuse to dismiss the results. Dave might "retire" at the end of the year, but I'd expect to see Abrams as GM in that case. Judge stays. Nothing changes. Pass the hemlock.

One thing you can always count on with the Giants is that they will telegraph their plans thru the media. They did it last year and made it obvious that Gettleman was going to be back, and they'll do the same thing this year one way or another.

I mean I would fire Gettleman, but this season has been very bad in terms of injuries. Last week, basically our offense was out. It was insane. What should be the demise of Gettleman is that our defense stinks.

of course not and I can't imagine anyone else here does. Unfortunately the only one that matters is the rotten fish head Mara and he'll fuck it up anyway even if there is a change.

than the FO/GM should get a pass.

Although having that mindset with a below average OL and TEs, no pass rushers, no impactful linebackers and prove-it type seasons needed from both the returning RB and QB may be the bigger question.

Johnny Boy telling his puppets to start leaking the injury excuse to the media. All is well.

Before the season Mara said that he was tired of explaining to fans why the team wasn't improving.

Here is an excerpt from the article........"I'd be very disappointed if things don't turn around quickly," Mara said, via The New York Post. "I'm starting to get impatient. It's been a while. I'm tired of explaining to fans at the end of every season, 'Things are getting better. We're on the right track.'

"You lose credibility with them."

So, while we may be close to the bottom I think Mara will make changes at year-end if not sooner. Now, the extent of those changes ? Who Knows?

Will he have an all out fire sale and start over? Will he replace Gettleman with a another corporate shill or family member? If the latter expect many more years of asking if this is the "bottom"

Think we are as far off as people are thinking. We need a pass rush and we can easily be 4-1 now. Our corners are fine but they are asked to do too much. McKinney has been a disappointment but he’s still young and this has essentially been his first year

Not 4-1

and that's the bottom line. It sucks to be 1-4, but the injury bug did hit them big time.

I hate to use Dallas as an example, but they got ravaged last year, came back healthy, and they look pretty darn good now. To blow this up now seems extremely premature IMO.

and some of the coaches, I don't think their cap situation for 2022 or their ability to replace those pricey veterans will allow a great deal of change right away.

I suspect 2022 roster could look a lot like the 2021 roster, plus a new draft class and minus a few vets and whomever the new draft class replaces.

of why I cautioned against spending open market dollars to fill expensive positional holes on a young unproven roster.

...is having an emotional breakdown.

I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such.

In comment 15410377 JonC said:

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and some of the coaches, I don't think their cap situation for 2022 or their ability to replace those pricey veterans will allow a great deal of change right away. I suspect 2022 roster could look a lot like the 2021 roster, plus a new draft class and minus a few vets and whomever the new draft class replaces.

Well, whose contracts are up after this year? I'm seeing Engram, Hernandez, Lorenzo Carter (don't want to confuse him with Carter Coughlin), Peppers, Ragland, Booker?

but a QB who's mobile definitely is exposed to more injury risk. A RB is harder to explain their injuries. But somewhere someone needs to be accountable for the roster makeup that continues to result in poor play and loses. IF they make no changes thats fine. I'll be losing interest steadily over this season. Its truly unwatchable. between lack of sustained success both in game and throughout the season, the extreme commericialization of every game, pregame show post game show, and, for me, the showboating after every play makes me shut it off. I spent the weekend watching travel softball, high school soccer and football. It was great. no commercials, LESS showboating/trash talking, and just refreshing efforts.

that has defended this franchise every year over the past decade? Yikes.

In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said:

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...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such.

They have some pretty good players. That's not unusual for bad teams. What they don't have is any elite players who are among the top 5 or 10 at their positions.

They need difference-makers, and they don't have them.

...being miserable for a decade because you are afraid to support that which you are purported to love?

In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said:

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...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such.

Do you watch the rest of the league?

This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it.

This is a complete teardown project.

And staying status quo is very much on the table. He's done it before and made the same excuse.

In reality this is the NFL, everyone deals with injuries, if they cripple you it just means you didn't do an adequate job building depth.

If you cut Solder and Rudolph, you gain $19M in space, but it doesn't create enough to do much. Check out spotrac's page, the 2022 Giants are gonna look a lot like the 2021 Giants.

I am probably wrong, but it seems that bad teams have a lot of injuries. Cause or effect, IDK. But if your athletes are not as good as another teams athletes they get hurt more often, especially in a violent game. Good teams get injuries too, but their backups are almost as good as their starters, so the drop off is not as great.

I was willing to see what the draft and FA signings this year would do. It does not seem like the FAs, for what they were paid, are panning out. Just as Jones was starting to use Golladay, both get hurt. Adoree has done little IMV. LW has not sniffed the QB much at all and the line looks like a sieve. Does not seem much return on the dollar.

The draft picks I think are good and I think they have done a better job drafting but the development seems muted.

Time to let DG go, look for a new GM and let him start shuffling pieces to other teams for draft picks and let him evaluate the current staff.

In comment 15410396 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such. They have some pretty good players. That's not unusual for bad teams. What they don't have is any elite players who are among the top 5 or 10 at their positions. They need difference-makers, and they don't have them.

I think that there is some elite talent on the roster but I agree that they are a few short of teams that are winning right now.

with the cap usage of a playoff contender. They have hammered the salary cap.

You've already copped to self-delusion as a choice. Fine, you do you. Those of us who have had our eyes open to the putrid state of the franchise will continue to do so.

In comment 15410400 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such. Do you watch the rest of the league? This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it. This is a complete teardown project.

The teardown should have started a week following the 2017 season. It didn't then and it won't now.

In comment 15410396 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such. They have some pretty good players. That's not unusual for bad teams. What they don't have is any elite players who are among the top 5 or 10 at their positions. They need difference-makers, and they don't have them.

Really because Andrew Thomas is looking like he could become one. Leonard Williams is top 5 player at his position. Bradbury was last year. Kadarius Toney had 189 yards in 50% of the snaps. Now, of course, it is a small sample and it could be a fluke, but I would not bet that we won't have difference makers by the end of next year. Jones is trending up. I think there is some talent to work with. I think the injuries are an excuse that is somewhat valid on offense. I think on the defensive side of the ball Gettleman has no excuses and the unit has not performed well. For that reason alone, he should be fired. Will we be great next year? No. Could we be much better with some player growth and a little bit of injury luck. I think so.

yep.

Sure isn't Barkley anymore. Maybe Andrew Thomas could be one of those guys, maybe Toney.

Not seeing anyone else who even has an outside chance of it.

In comment 15410400 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such. Do you watch the rest of the league? This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it. This is a complete teardown project.

I do.
It's amazing what a couple of elite players can do for several other non-elite players.

Also, if the team is so bad...we're already "torn down," so the transition should be smooth, no?!

And Bradberry sure isn't playing like it this season. Last year is looking like a major fluke since he was never more than pretty good at Carolina.

Coaches, and 2 different GM s in the past 7 seasons.

But yea, he s looking for reasons to not make changes, Ok

That the Giants have been lousy, no one can deny. But continuing to hold onto the Marra narrative, “ he won’t change” is just as wrong as the narrative, that as long as he sells tickets, he doesn’t care.

Personally I hope he doesn’t move on from Judge, changing coaches every two years hasn’t worked out so well.

That s a narrative based on fact, not fiction

In comment 15410420 Brown_Hornet said:

Quote:

In comment 15410400 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such. Do you watch the rest of the league? This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it. This is a complete teardown project. I do. It's amazing what a couple of elite players can do for several other non-elite players. Also, if the team is so bad...we're already "torn down," so the transition should be smooth, no?!

Your last statement reflects no understanding of:

1) The salary cap penalties of undoing what they did this year
2) The power of sentimentality and nostalgia has over the Giants

In comment 15410404 JonC said:

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If you cut Solder and Rudolph, you gain $19M in space, but it doesn't create enough to do much. Check out spotrac's page, the 2022 Giants are gonna look a lot like the 2021 Giants.

Dixon should be thrown into the "easy cap decision" conversation as well

In comment 15410421 Greg from LI said:

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And Bradberry sure isn't playing like it this season. Last year is looking like a major fluke since he was never more than pretty good at Carolina.

Leonard Williams in every statistical category was on the same level as Aaron Donald last year. Aaron Donald might be the number 1 defensive player in the game.

In comment 15410379 JonC said:

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of why I cautioned against spending open market dollars to fill expensive positional holes on a young unproven roster.

Yup. Signing expensive FAs should be limited to those situations where doing so makes a team a legitimate SB contender, at least "on paper." That was not the Giants. We weren't two or three players away from being a legitimate SB contender before the season. We were at least a dozen players away.

the problem is a 3-4 DE shouldn't be a cornerstone of your financial structure.

In comment 15410410 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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with the cap usage of a playoff contender. They have hammered the salary cap.

^This. We are a bad team with no cap room. That is the main reason why despite all of our draft picks next year, I don't think we'll see a much better record in 2022.

In comment 15410435 Essex said:

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Leonard Williams in every statistical category was on the same level as Aaron Donald last year. Aaron Donald might be the number 1 defensive player in the game.

The only season of his career where you can even mention him in the same breath as Donald without being laughed out of the room. Is he playing at that level this year? No.

Is likely to retire this year. I don’t think he needs to be forced out.

In comment 15410446 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:

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Is likely to retire this year. I don’t think he needs to be forced out.

He shouldn't last long enough to retire. He should be escorted out of the building holding a box with all his shit in it.

Should have happened two years ago, frankly.

In comment 15410441 JonC said:

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the problem is a 3-4 DE shouldn't be a cornerstone of your financial structure.

Right. Because in a 3-4 the main pass rushers are OLBs. And it's pass rushers that you want to focus on paying. The problem is that we have no pass rushers, even if we were willing or able to the pay them. We have a bunch of journeymen. So we end up overpaying other players, including 3-4 DEs whose main focus is stopping the run.

Williams and Lawrence would be a lot more effective if we had OLBs that could provide a consistent pass rush and set the edge on run plays. Dallas repeatedly ran wide because we don't, and to get away from Williams and Lawrence.

In comment 15410429 joeinpa said:

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Coaches, and 2 different GM s in the past 7 seasons. But yea, he s looking for reasons to not make changes, Ok That the Giants have been lousy, no one can deny. But continuing to hold onto the Marra narrative, “ he won’t change” is just as wrong as the narrative, that as long as he sells tickets, he doesn’t care. Personally I hope he doesn’t move on from Judge, changing coaches every two years hasn’t worked out so well. That s a narrative based on fact, not fiction

I hate to break it to you, but letting Ernie Accorsi replace Jerry Reese with another one of his disciples and pressing forward with the existing roster plus some pricey free agents and an idiotic draft pick isn't "change."

John Mara has not changed anything about his organization's overall philosophy. McAdoo was a casualty of the Eli Manning saga, and Mara let Gettleman throw Shurmur overboard for failing to win with a piece of shit roster. I'm no Shurmur fan, but Gettleman should have been escorted out of the building right behind him.

In comment 15410435 Essex said:

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In comment 15410421 Greg from LI said: Quote: And Bradberry sure isn't playing like it this season. Last year is looking like a major fluke since he was never more than pretty good at Carolina. Leonard Williams in every statistical category was on the same level as Aaron Donald last year. Aaron Donald might be the number 1 defensive player in the game.

From the Post "Or maybe this is the ugly truth no one wants to face: The Giants defense’s strong performance last season, especially during the 5-3 finish, was fueled by a perfect storm of career-best years and was not some starting point to build upon"

https://nypost.com/2021/10/11/the-ugly-truth-about-giants-underachieving-defense/

On Bradberry....woof:

Quote:

For his encore season, however, he already has allowed 301 passing yards, four touchdowns and a 117.1 passer rating in five games after those numbers were 455, three and 70.1, respectively, in 15 games. Add in three automatic first-down penalties to extend scoring drives.

In comment 15410414 Harvest Blend said:

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In comment 15410400 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 15410380 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...is having an emotional breakdown. I expect that DG will be gone along with a couple of starters but the team is not without good players and I expect that the roster will be viewed as such. Do you watch the rest of the league? This is a bottom five NFL roster with zero clear bedrock foundational pieces. Maybe Thomas and Toney can rise to that level, but that's it. This is a complete teardown project. The teardown should have started a week following the 2017 season. It didn't then and it won't now.

Huh? They have been tearing it down and building it back up for ten fucking years now.

Failure doesn't mean inactivity. The Giants most definitely tore it down. They still suck but they definitely rebuilt the roster.

COACHING. It's always coaching. It's why I preached that the Giants better be damn sure the guy they are replacing Coughlin with is a clear cut upgrade and a guy you're confident in, or this cycle could go on forever. I was told Coughlin was too old. Debatable, but maybe. Sadly, we still haven't found an adequate head coach since then.

It's worth pointing out that the Giants have hired 2 young unproven HCs since Shurmur and even Shurmur wasn't exactly a HC with legit experience. He was just another failed experiment that got another shot in NY.

We need a real fucking HC. Judge has all the answers but cannot get his team to win. MAybe he gets another year with a new GM. Yea that's going to solve all our problems. Sure it will.

i'm tired of hearing this.

hiring people you're familiar with isn't THE GIANTS WAY. everyone does that in every industry.

IMO, due to cap situation. They will have to draft well, as they should, but in order to improve the talent, it’s going to have to come from the draft. It’s a good thing they have 5 high draft picks.