I really hope he is fired or forced to resign but given the Giant's way I would not be so sure. Why are most people so confident that he will not be here next year?
Has been a lot of turnover of late. McAdoo didn’t make two seasons despite going 11-5 his first year, Shurmur only went two seasons & people already talking about Judge on the hot seat.
As for Gettleman, he’s 16-37. Mara cares very much about optics and he knows the fans are losing patience. He knows he can’t promote from within when they are 19-50 since 2017. I think a young GM will be hired from outside the organization with Judge retained.
And under every couch to find a reason, any reason, to not fire Dave. So yes I agree it’s not a slam dunk.
If it were me, I’d can him in the most embarrassing fashion possible. Think along the lines of the night before Thanksgiving (giving NYG fans something to be truly thankful for as we gather around the table) or on Christmas Eve (and playing Santa for us NYG fans by giving us the gift we always wanted..like being a kid in 1986 and unwrapping the GI JOE USS FLAG on Christmas morning)…
It’d be unMara-like to not let the contract play out, even though he axed Reese early.
Mara signed off on the 1st rd trade instead of Slater so he knows he owns that one.
I think he lets DG stay to the end of the contract, but due diligence would be getting a list of potential ‘23 GM replacements now..
Is very involved. Wellington was according to many here until George Young. He hired Reeves when Young had trouble getting a coach and definitely wanted TC but otherwise he seemed to stay out of it. He also was the only Mara in a key role. Chris had a minor role.
I don’t know how much different things will be as John always talks about group decisions. You also have the issue that you now have more Mara’s in the equation.
If this thing goes really bad it may be time for both ownership’s families to agree that they need to get out of the operations side which will most likely lead to other issues and why I don’t see much happening.
So I’ll just hope they start winning more somehow but there seems to be a lot of competing factors with the current structure
RE: John is going to look under every pillow, behind every curtain
And under every couch to find a reason, any reason, to not fire Dave. So yes I agree it’s not a slam dunk.
If it were me, I’d can him in the most embarrassing fashion possible. Think along the lines of the night before Thanksgiving (giving NYG fans something to be truly thankful for as we gather around the table) or on Christmas Eve (and playing Santa for us NYG fans by giving us the gift we always wanted..like being a kid in 1986 and unwrapping the GI JOE USS FLAG on Christmas morning)…
You really think that? I don’t think Mara is that patient. He gave Gettleman 2021 because of the success of LW, Bradberry & Blake Martinez last year in addition to finishing 5-3 last year with a new head coach.
With a 16-37 record, I’d be shocked if he got 2022. Mara fired Reese mid season after being GM of two SB teams. Reese was significantly younger than Gettleman too.
Mara might be clueless in terms of football, but he's not an idiot in terms of fans & optics. If this season spirals out of control-as its looking-there's no chance in hell he brings DG back. None.
The whole franchise is defensive and very sensitive
Garrett
Pros: complaints about his play calling
Cons: Garrett will be in the NFL for years more and firing him could make Mara look like a fool. The positional coaching for the offense actually seems pretty good - several young players are making progress.
Patrick Graham:
Pros: the D stinks
Cons: minority coach, the D was playing above its level in 2020, will be in the NFL for many more years
Judge:
Pros: if the GM goes, you can reorganize and have that guy bring in his own HC
Cons: another 2 and out head coach? Might rebound from 2021 well. 2021 costs would include 3 head coaches.
Gettleman:
Pros: Personnel weaknesses are gearing, he’s old
Cons: Mara had known him for a long time
I like Gettleman for the patsy.
We had no pass rush or OL when we hired him 4 years ago
And under every couch to find a reason, any reason, to not fire Dave. So yes I agree it’s not a slam dunk.
If it were me, I’d can him in the most embarrassing fashion possible. Think along the lines of the night before Thanksgiving (giving NYG fans something to be truly thankful for as we gather around the table) or on Christmas Eve (and playing Santa for us NYG fans by giving us the gift we always wanted..like being a kid in 1986 and unwrapping the GI JOE USS FLAG on Christmas morning)…
You really think that? I don’t think Mara is that patient. He gave Gettleman 2021 because of the success of LW, Bradberry & Blake Martinez last year in addition to finishing 5-3 last year with a new head coach.
With a 16-37 record, I’d be shocked if he got 2022. Mara fired Reese mid season after being GM of two SB teams. Reese was significantly younger than Gettleman too.
I think DG is gone and it’ll be an outside hire.
Unfortunately, I do. I firmly believe Mara will give him another year. And right now, the excuse is evident: injuries. Yes it’s a total bullshit excuse, but it’s there and John very well may embrace it for year 5 of Dave.
Mara might be clueless in terms of football, but he's not an idiot in terms of fans & optics. If this season spirals out of control-as its looking-there's no chance in hell he brings DG back. None.
This.
I’m very confident that Mara will hire a GM from outside the organization who is young. I think Judge will get another year and potentially beyond. The new GM will be hired most likely to outlast Judge.
Mara is fully aware of what fans are saying. He knows the perception right now, the next GM isn’t in the building.
We need a ton of visiting fans to go to the next handful of home games. THAT infuriates John to no end. Hearing fans cheering as the NYG are getting their skulls kicked in would drive him mad..
Has mentioned many times that the team needs to start winning in response to questions about Gettleman being on the hot seat. Given that the team is 1-4 and Mara is assaulting trash cans the direction of travel is that DG will retire after the season. The accountability is on Mara to not half-ass the search this time for his replacement
Does he have control of the roster? Is he the final decision maker on draft picks? Can he make changes to staff? Can he get rid of Judge?
Mara already said they have made big changes to operations. Judge has been very involved in the roster as is.
I think we see a internal promotion and Judge and Jones are back. If it is bad again next year then the changes will be monumental by Giants standards.
And even if Gettleman is gone, I'm skeptical that the Giants will conduct an actual evaluation of their organization and a legitimate search for a GM who will put them on a different path.
We need a ton of visiting fans to go to the next handful of home games. THAT infuriates John to no end. Hearing fans cheering as the NYG are getting their skulls kicked in would drive him mad..
If the Cowboys keep winning imagine a stadium full of their fans wearing white Stetsons. Would like to see a shot of Mara at that game.
If you remember back in December 2019 the Giants planted this pathetic puff piece when it was uncertain whether Gettleman would be fired. I wonder if we'll see any bullshit like this now. Pathetic PR Bullshit - ( New Window )
If you remember back in December 2019 the Giants planted this pathetic puff piece when it was uncertain whether Gettleman would be fired. I wonder if we'll see any bullshit like this now. Pathetic PR Bullshit - ( New Window )
In comment 15411415 Sean said: He’s 16-37.
To save face, much like TC. He should be fired obviously.
Remember Matt Millen was 30-100 as a GM? Or some pathetic display like that? It took the Lions going 0-16 in 2008 for them to wake the fuck up and get rid of his ass.
But I'm comfortable saying that its likely. Gettleman even seemed to acknowledge this in his presser before the year where he pretty much said if you don't perform in this league, you're out.
The reality is that this is now 100% Dave Gettleman's team, there's no more "Jerry Reese left him a bad roster". He's been here 4 years, has hired 2 different coaches and just finished a large spending spree. Guess what, the team is still no better than it was when he got here.
Remember this too, Gettleman is in his 70's and on his second GM job. Its not a scenario like Judge where you hired a 38 year old on his first job and you have to be cognizant that there will be learning curves. Gettleman is what he will be, there isn't going to be any major change in his performance at this point in his career.
But I'm comfortable saying that its likely. Gettleman even seemed to acknowledge this in his presser before the year where he pretty much said if you don't perform in this league, you're out.
The reality is that this is now 100% Dave Gettleman's team, there's no more "Jerry Reese left him a bad roster". He's been here 4 years, has hired 2 different coaches and just finished a large spending spree. Guess what, the team is still no better than it was when he got here.
Remember this too, Gettleman is in his 70's and on his second GM job. Its not a scenario like Judge where you hired a 38 year old on his first job and you have to be cognizant that there will be learning curves. Gettleman is what he will be, there isn't going to be any major change in his performance at this point in his career.
Great post.
Could they really fire Judge and leave Gettleman in place?
The fallout here on BBI and in the press would be unbelievable.
It's possible they fire neither Judge nor Gettleman and instead replace Garrett and Graham, but leaving Gettleman in place is just asking for more of the same and would confirm that the Giants are an ossified organisation.
RE: Could they really fire Judge and leave Gettleman in place?
The fallout here on BBI and in the press would be unbelievable.
It's possible they fire neither Judge nor Gettleman and instead replace Garrett and Graham, but leaving Gettleman in place is just asking for more of the same and would confirm that the Giants are an ossified organisation.
I would bet my mortgage that does not happen. I think Gettleman is fired and Judge retained.
In fact, I think the Mara's will look for any excuse to keep him. A 3-4 win season will be hard to excuse, but 6-7 wins? We'll hear about injuries, how the team finished strong, the young players are coming along, blah, blah, blah.
In fact, I think the Mara's will look for any excuse to keep him. A 3-4 win season will be hard to excuse, but 6-7 wins? We'll hear about injuries, how the team finished strong, the young players are coming along, blah, blah, blah.
I don’t see it. Mara knows where the wind is blowing with this fanbase. When he’a booed off the field at Strahan’s ceremony, he’s not bringing Gettleman back.
RE: Could they really fire Judge and leave Gettleman in place?
although I think its best for the team. The issue is, if you fire Gettleman, do you also fire Judge. If you don't fire the HC, you're limited in the candidates you can bring in as GM.
However, if you fire everyone, Jones (and any other worthwhile offensive player) has to learn his third system in four years. Not optimal.
So the only argument for keeping Gettleman I think is continuity and the "Giants Way." This is a recipe for mediocrity. As painful as it will be, I think you have to clean house.
although I think its best for the team. The issue is, if you fire Gettleman, do you also fire Judge. If you don't fire the HC, you're limited in the candidates you can bring in as GM.
However, if you fire everyone, Jones (and any other worthwhile offensive player) has to learn his third system in four years. Not optimal.
So the only argument for keeping Gettleman I think is continuity and the "Giants Way." This is a recipe for mediocrity. As painful as it will be, I think you have to clean house.
When has the general manager hired the head coach here? You do not need to fire Judge to bring in a new GM. The new GM will work with Judge and probably outlast him.
would take the job and have to be saddled with Judge? I had high hopes for Judge, and it looked promising in early December of last year. I just don't see where this guy is learning from mistakes and improving. He's got 12 more games to show otherwise.
would take the job and have to be saddled with Judge? I had high hopes for Judge, and it looked promising in early December of last year. I just don't see where this guy is learning from mistakes and improving. He's got 12 more games to show otherwise.
You make it sound like these jobs grow on trees. I don’t see it being an issue. Judge probably gets an additional year and if it doesn’t work out he will have a say in the next head coach.
would take the job and have to be saddled with Judge? I had high hopes for Judge, and it looked promising in early December of last year. I just don't see where this guy is learning from mistakes and improving. He's got 12 more games to show otherwise.
You make it sound like these jobs grow on trees. I don’t see it being an issue. Judge probably gets an additional year and if it doesn’t work out he will have a say in the next head coach.
I don't know, another way of looking at it is there aren't a lot of hot candidates out there either. If you're in demand, do you wait for a position where you can hire everyone or do you take a job where some of your success is dependent on a the previous guy's hires? What if the coach that's there already doesn't share your personnel philosophy? Training?
I don't want any impediments to the Giants hiring the best person for the job. I think an existing coach is a negative.
would take the job and have to be saddled with Judge? I had high hopes for Judge, and it looked promising in early December of last year. I just don't see where this guy is learning from mistakes and improving. He's got 12 more games to show otherwise.
Depends on what you mean by respectable. Being one of 32 GMs is still a coveted job. Doesn't matter what team. A prospective first time GM is probably going to be okay with sticking with Judge if he's offered the job on that condition.
would take the job and have to be saddled with Judge? I had high hopes for Judge, and it looked promising in early December of last year. I just don't see where this guy is learning from mistakes and improving. He's got 12 more games to show otherwise.
Depends on what you mean by respectable. Being one of 32 GMs is still a coveted job. Doesn't matter what team. A prospective first time GM is probably going to be okay with sticking with Judge if he's offered the job on that condition.
Why would you ever tap a guy to turn around your franchise that has been a horror show for a decade and say, "oh, btw, you need to keep the HC (who will probably be somewhere around 10-23 as a career record." That almost makes as much sense as every other half measure the Giants have taken over the last decade." They need to step out of their comfort zone.
As for Gettleman, he’s 16-37. Mara cares very much about optics and he knows the fans are losing patience. He knows he can’t promote from within when they are 19-50 since 2017. I think a young GM will be hired from outside the organization with Judge retained.
They have replaced a ton of players, coaches, scouts, etc. Shouldn’t the GM be next?
If it were me, I’d can him in the most embarrassing fashion possible. Think along the lines of the night before Thanksgiving (giving NYG fans something to be truly thankful for as we gather around the table) or on Christmas Eve (and playing Santa for us NYG fans by giving us the gift we always wanted..like being a kid in 1986 and unwrapping the GI JOE USS FLAG on Christmas morning)…
To save face, much like TC. He should be fired obviously.
Mara signed off on the 1st rd trade instead of Slater so he knows he owns that one.
I think he lets DG stay to the end of the contract, but due diligence would be getting a list of potential ‘23 GM replacements now..
I don’t know how much different things will be as John always talks about group decisions. You also have the issue that you now have more Mara’s in the equation.
If this thing goes really bad it may be time for both ownership’s families to agree that they need to get out of the operations side which will most likely lead to other issues and why I don’t see much happening.
So I’ll just hope they start winning more somehow but there seems to be a lot of competing factors with the current structure
If it were me, I’d can him in the most embarrassing fashion possible. Think along the lines of the night before Thanksgiving (giving NYG fans something to be truly thankful for as we gather around the table) or on Christmas Eve (and playing Santa for us NYG fans by giving us the gift we always wanted..like being a kid in 1986 and unwrapping the GI JOE USS FLAG on Christmas morning)…
You really think that? I don’t think Mara is that patient. He gave Gettleman 2021 because of the success of LW, Bradberry & Blake Martinez last year in addition to finishing 5-3 last year with a new head coach.
With a 16-37 record, I’d be shocked if he got 2022. Mara fired Reese mid season after being GM of two SB teams. Reese was significantly younger than Gettleman too.
I think DG is gone and it’ll be an outside hire.
Quote:
He’s 16-37.
To save face, much like TC. He should be fired obviously.
Reese didn’t get that opportunity.
Candidates:
Garrett
Pros: complaints about his play calling
Cons: Garrett will be in the NFL for years more and firing him could make Mara look like a fool. The positional coaching for the offense actually seems pretty good - several young players are making progress.
Patrick Graham:
Pros: the D stinks
Cons: minority coach, the D was playing above its level in 2020, will be in the NFL for many more years
Judge:
Pros: if the GM goes, you can reorganize and have that guy bring in his own HC
Cons: another 2 and out head coach? Might rebound from 2021 well. 2021 costs would include 3 head coaches.
Gettleman:
Pros: Personnel weaknesses are gearing, he’s old
Cons: Mara had known him for a long time
I like Gettleman for the patsy.
Quote:
And under every couch to find a reason, any reason, to not fire Dave. So yes I agree it’s not a slam dunk.
If it were me, I’d can him in the most embarrassing fashion possible. Think along the lines of the night before Thanksgiving (giving NYG fans something to be truly thankful for as we gather around the table) or on Christmas Eve (and playing Santa for us NYG fans by giving us the gift we always wanted..like being a kid in 1986 and unwrapping the GI JOE USS FLAG on Christmas morning)…
You really think that? I don’t think Mara is that patient. He gave Gettleman 2021 because of the success of LW, Bradberry & Blake Martinez last year in addition to finishing 5-3 last year with a new head coach.
With a 16-37 record, I’d be shocked if he got 2022. Mara fired Reese mid season after being GM of two SB teams. Reese was significantly younger than Gettleman too.
I think DG is gone and it’ll be an outside hire.
Unfortunately, I do. I firmly believe Mara will give him another year. And right now, the excuse is evident: injuries. Yes it’s a total bullshit excuse, but it’s there and John very well may embrace it for year 5 of Dave.
This.
I’m very confident that Mara will hire a GM from outside the organization who is young. I think Judge will get another year and potentially beyond. The new GM will be hired most likely to outlast Judge.
Mara is fully aware of what fans are saying. He knows the perception right now, the next GM isn’t in the building.
They’ll be a fan revolt if DG is retained or Abrams promoted after a 4-13 type season. Or even worse, indifference.
We need a ton of visiting fans to go to the next handful of home games. THAT infuriates John to no end. Hearing fans cheering as the NYG are getting their skulls kicked in would drive him mad..
That is entirely possible. Add in that's @ Metlife. It's going to be ugly.
Mara already said they have made big changes to operations. Judge has been very involved in the roster as is.
I think we see a internal promotion and Judge and Jones are back. If it is bad again next year then the changes will be monumental by Giants standards.
Quote:
I think Gettleman could be gone on Monday.
We need a ton of visiting fans to go to the next handful of home games. THAT infuriates John to no end. Hearing fans cheering as the NYG are getting their skulls kicked in would drive him mad..
If the Cowboys keep winning imagine a stadium full of their fans wearing white Stetsons. Would like to see a shot of Mara at that game.
Pathetic PR Bullshit - ( New Window )
What the fuck? Lol.
To save face, much like TC. He should be fired obviously.
Remember Matt Millen was 30-100 as a GM? Or some pathetic display like that? It took the Lions going 0-16 in 2008 for them to wake the fuck up and get rid of his ass.
The reality is that this is now 100% Dave Gettleman's team, there's no more "Jerry Reese left him a bad roster". He's been here 4 years, has hired 2 different coaches and just finished a large spending spree. Guess what, the team is still no better than it was when he got here.
Remember this too, Gettleman is in his 70's and on his second GM job. Its not a scenario like Judge where you hired a 38 year old on his first job and you have to be cognizant that there will be learning curves. Gettleman is what he will be, there isn't going to be any major change in his performance at this point in his career.
The reality is that this is now 100% Dave Gettleman's team, there's no more "Jerry Reese left him a bad roster". He's been here 4 years, has hired 2 different coaches and just finished a large spending spree. Guess what, the team is still no better than it was when he got here.
Remember this too, Gettleman is in his 70's and on his second GM job. Its not a scenario like Judge where you hired a 38 year old on his first job and you have to be cognizant that there will be learning curves. Gettleman is what he will be, there isn't going to be any major change in his performance at this point in his career.
Great post.
It's possible they fire neither Judge nor Gettleman and instead replace Garrett and Graham, but leaving Gettleman in place is just asking for more of the same and would confirm that the Giants are an ossified organisation.
It's possible they fire neither Judge nor Gettleman and instead replace Garrett and Graham, but leaving Gettleman in place is just asking for more of the same and would confirm that the Giants are an ossified organisation.
I would bet my mortgage that does not happen. I think Gettleman is fired and Judge retained.
I don’t see it. Mara knows where the wind is blowing with this fanbase. When he’a booed off the field at Strahan’s ceremony, he’s not bringing Gettleman back.
However, if you fire everyone, Jones (and any other worthwhile offensive player) has to learn his third system in four years. Not optimal.
So the only argument for keeping Gettleman I think is continuity and the "Giants Way." This is a recipe for mediocrity. As painful as it will be, I think you have to clean house.
However, if you fire everyone, Jones (and any other worthwhile offensive player) has to learn his third system in four years. Not optimal.
So the only argument for keeping Gettleman I think is continuity and the "Giants Way." This is a recipe for mediocrity. As painful as it will be, I think you have to clean house.
When has the general manager hired the head coach here? You do not need to fire Judge to bring in a new GM. The new GM will work with Judge and probably outlast him.
You make it sound like these jobs grow on trees. I don’t see it being an issue. Judge probably gets an additional year and if it doesn’t work out he will have a say in the next head coach.
Quote:
would take the job and have to be saddled with Judge? I had high hopes for Judge, and it looked promising in early December of last year. I just don't see where this guy is learning from mistakes and improving. He's got 12 more games to show otherwise.
You make it sound like these jobs grow on trees. I don’t see it being an issue. Judge probably gets an additional year and if it doesn’t work out he will have a say in the next head coach.
I don't know, another way of looking at it is there aren't a lot of hot candidates out there either. If you're in demand, do you wait for a position where you can hire everyone or do you take a job where some of your success is dependent on a the previous guy's hires? What if the coach that's there already doesn't share your personnel philosophy? Training?
I don't want any impediments to the Giants hiring the best person for the job. I think an existing coach is a negative.
Depends on what you mean by respectable. Being one of 32 GMs is still a coveted job. Doesn't matter what team. A prospective first time GM is probably going to be okay with sticking with Judge if he's offered the job on that condition.
Quote:
would take the job and have to be saddled with Judge? I had high hopes for Judge, and it looked promising in early December of last year. I just don't see where this guy is learning from mistakes and improving. He's got 12 more games to show otherwise.
Depends on what you mean by respectable. Being one of 32 GMs is still a coveted job. Doesn't matter what team. A prospective first time GM is probably going to be okay with sticking with Judge if he's offered the job on that condition.
Why would you ever tap a guy to turn around your franchise that has been a horror show for a decade and say, "oh, btw, you need to keep the HC (who will probably be somewhere around 10-23 as a career record." That almost makes as much sense as every other half measure the Giants have taken over the last decade." They need to step out of their comfort zone.