I know there are a thousand threads on the defense sucks, but I'm looking for more technical answers on what has happened this season...
At no time this off season did the defense worry me. If anything I thought they'd at least be as good as last year and possibly better. Same coordinator, most of the same returning cast and a few good FA pick ups. However the exact opposite has happened. The defense is a clear liability and clearly worse then last year. I think we can pretty much agree on all of the above, my question is why?
What are we seeing that is different? Was there some schematic change in our defensive game plan? Is there some technical issue I'm missing? Did they start believing their own press clippings? What is it?
2. last year to a degree the defense went as Holmes did. early in the year he didnt play well and he got picked on. later in the year he got better and the defense got better.
3. the LB's aren't setting the edge in the run game at all. last year they didn't have dynamic edge rushers but Fackrell, Trent Harris, Sheard knew their assignments.
4. whatever graham did to change things up nobody in the secondary is playing with confidence. they aren't completely busting assignments, but a lot of guys are just a half step in the wrong direction like the Lamb TD getting past Bradberry with Love not getting over in time. some of the TDs like the one on Jackson in the corner of the EZ vs. WAS are just tip your cap plays. but I think it's definitely shot the confidence of some of these guys.
5. the young guys who were picked high and supposed to step up havent (specifically Lawrence and McKinney).
i dont have any suggested answers. this unit has been really disappointing and cost the team at least 2 wins. they need to do something to find a way to play with some confidence.
BRILLIANT!
Shocking.
Maybe we need to restructure these guys a few more times, I'm not sure we are up against the cap enough yet for a team that never wins.
BRILLIANT!
What he means by that is the correlation of defensive output is not as high from year to year as other elements of football. I've never read that about defense overall, but I have seen some pretty convincing data demonstrating that certain distinct elements are not that "sticky" or correlated from year-to-year; one example is recovered fumbles. I'd like to see whatever reading/analysis he has on that. There are so many variables but if you get a big enough data set, maybe you can find something there.
I don't know as much football as a lot of people, but a few observations:
The Cowboys were consistently pulling guards who were obliterating our guys on the edge.
Bradberry doesn't look as good as he did last year.
Peppers has been a very up-and-down player in his career and this year it seems we're getting more of the bad play.
Leonard Williams is not playing as well as he did last year.
The NTs have been average at best and Shelton has had some bad games.
Graham seems like (especially in the earlier games) he's calling softer coverage and less blitzing, but I could be wrong about that, and even if I'm right he may have good reason if he realizes our secondary is prone.
Bad luck on some dropped INTs.
Cowboys hit the perimeter and ran outside.
The Giants are good if they decide to run in the middle.
Unfortunately Crowder isn't getting it done either way.
Bradberry was lights out, true shutdown guy last year and hes been really awful this year.
The safety play has also been underwhelming.
Graham is going to need to take some more chances here. The season is essentially over, so stop being so conservative and lets really see if any of these guys can play
The defense as a whole has stepped back. Really, all the examples people have listed here are pretty accurate.
They aren't a bad defense this year, and perhaps too much has been asked of them at times this season in today's keague, but they're not what they were last year IMO.
It is really a head scratcher.Is it the scheme versus last year? Graham's soft pass coverage in the secondary is driving me crazy. Wr's and TE's running free all over the field. Edge containment is non existent with these outside LB's.
I thought Bradbury's strength was playing as a press coverage corner...why is he playing 10 yards off the LOS? A real disappointment for me is Logan Ryan's play at safety this year versus last year...what changed? Peppers seems to be mailing it in this year.
I would love to have an honest one on one discussion with Pat Graham about his defensive players. An honest evaluation of their strengths and weaknesses.
Having said all that above I would give a pass to Ojulari and McKinney who are essentially in their rookie seasons!!!
Think Shelton is a notch or so below Tomlinson. But Shelton has not been playing that bad. He is just not as athletic as DT.
Biggest issue is the LB corps. Martinez out is huge. XMan is not the answer. Ojulari shows promise but still a young pup. Coughlin moved inside - may not be a good fit. The rest of the OLB just not getting it done.
And fundamentals - marginally talented teams cannot screw up the basics - tackling, dropping ints.
Not an Xs & Os guy but maybe the schemes play a role as well
They also do no tackle well, and the edges are really soft versus the run. Given all these things, they can't stop the run, can't dictate AT ALL to their opponents, and catch get off the field because they're always back on their heels.
Throw in all these super soft zone looks from Graham trying to protect the defense from its weaknesses, and you've got a bunch of missing confidence along with missing talent.
They need upgrades at NT, at least three LB spots presuming Ojulari grows into a sound #2, and their pricey CBs have to regain their form. There's a lot of flakiness on display with the LBs which points to coaching. It's a mess.
Frackrell and Sheard were competent edge setters, and reliable if unspectacular. Tomlinson and Hill are both bona fide starters in this league.
The Giants walked away from four glue guys, who kept a respectable floor last year.
The floor is much lower now.
Plus there s no Yiadom on the other side to attack and avoid Bradberry
Nj.com link 15 Wild Stars through 5 games - ( New Window )
BBB: The Giants are not what they expected to be - ( New Window )
Carter - 231 snaps, 90th/106 EDGE
Crowder - 274 snaps, 79th/84 ILBs
Ojulari - 195 snaps, 81st/106 EDGE
Ragland is next but he has actually rated well (29th/84 ILBs).
So net-net:
The secondary rates middle of the pack - which is still underperformance relative to where they should be.
The DL is closest to hitting expectations (Leonard Williams is the highest rated player on the team, Johnson/Lawrence both above average).
And the LB level is basically contending to be one of the worst in the league. Ojulari as a rookie is understandable. But Crowder has taken a big step back and Patrick Graham's prediction of a Lorenzo Carter breakout seem to be major culprits. Along with Ximines basically being a non-impact player.
Carter - 231 snaps, 90th/106 EDGE
Crowder - 274 snaps, 79th/84 ILBs
Ojulari - 195 snaps, 81st/106 EDGE
Ragland is next but he has actually rated well (29th/84 ILBs).
So net-net:
The secondary rates middle of the pack - which is still underperformance relative to where they should be.
The DL is closest to hitting expectations (Leonard Williams is the highest rated player on the team, Johnson/Lawrence both above average).
And the LB level is basically contending to be one of the worst in the league. Ojulari as a rookie is understandable. But Crowder has taken a big step back and Patrick Graham's prediction of a Lorenzo Carter breakout seem to be major culprits. Along with Ximines basically being a non-impact player.
good post all-around...
Carter - 231 snaps, 90th/106 EDGE
Crowder - 274 snaps, 79th/84 ILBs
Ojulari - 195 snaps, 81st/106 EDGE
Ragland is next but he has actually rated well (29th/84 ILBs).
So net-net:
The secondary rates middle of the pack - which is still underperformance relative to where they should be.
The DL is closest to hitting expectations (Leonard Williams is the highest rated player on the team, Johnson/Lawrence both above average).
And the LB level is basically contending to be one of the worst in the league. Ojulari as a rookie is understandable. But Crowder has taken a big step back and Patrick Graham's prediction of a Lorenzo Carter breakout seem to be major culprits. Along with Ximines basically being a non-impact player.
I know I'm simplifying but we could have taken Micah Parsons. We just don't seem to value LB play the way a 34 defense should. Crowder is Mr Irrelevant and seems to be playing that way more and more. I've written of getting anything useful out of Carter and Ximines. Hoping OJ develops into an above average player.
Not sure I agree with this. We played:
#3 Tampa
#7 Ravens
#8 Seahawks
#12 Steelers
#13 Cards
#14 Browns
I got those from Pro Football Reference. Thats rated by points for. I also think it depends WHEN in the season you play those offenses. Now you could argue that our defense was shit against those top teams and I would not disagree(except for maybe the seahawks game), but somehow we were #9 team d (points against) and #21 in yards allowed. I think maybe some of it is we got more breaks than we have so far but in general I feel like we are aggresive in coverage or in rushing the passer. That goes along with a lot of what else is on this thread.
they gave Jackson 3 years / 39m. $13m AAV. Almost the same amount they gave Bradberry last year.
as disappointing as Bradberry's year has been he almost single handedly won the WAS game and made a big play in the NO game. Jackson has done nothing so far.
hard to not argue Floyd, Nguakoue, Reddick, whoever would have been better. Or a combo of lower cost players like bringing back Fackrell and some other depth pieces.
They are not a strong pass rushing crew.
Again, not an Xs or Os guy but two things that keep coming to mind when I watch the team - open spots on the field where a LB should be. (gap discipline, holding the edge?
And, when I think of LBs, I think guys that should run and hit. Maybe its' just me but I just don't see a lot of that or enough of that from our crew.
Stop drafting for things like "length" and just find some heat seeking missiles who have solid football IQ.
Toney is going to be headache for teams for years to come.
Totally agree jon. I know hindsight is always 20:20 but Reddick was also a lot cheaper. 1 year 6m.
Give me Reddick + maybe another depth player like Fackrell + a lesser vet CB (like Hayward) and this defense would be in much better shape right now.
Jackson was paid like Bradberry/Williams/Martinez and has yet to show anywhere close to that level of impact (IMO).
Floyd has been very good for a few years now - which is why unlike Jackson his previous team pushed hard to bring him back. I'd have been much more comfortable with him than Jackson, even at the slightly higher price tag. Not sure I'd have taken him over the combo of multiple cheaper players but I may have.
Jackson not only had the odd departure from TEN but also the injury risk. Paying him almost what they paid Bradberry puts a pretty big level of performance expectation. Bradberry was a stud last year and while he hasn't been as good this year he does have 2 big INTs and almost had a 3rd vs. Dallas. Jackson dropped 1 costing them the Atlanta win and other than that has been mostly invisible.
Maybe he turns things around and the defense goes on a run like last year but so far he looks like someone we may want a redo on.
3 sacks / 4 tfls so far this year.
10.5 / 11 last year.
hasn't missed a game since 2017.
Ojulari is the only guy on the roster with anywhere close to the athleticism Floyd has, and I think from the Rams games I've seen Floyd's first step and bend are better. I guess we will see this week firsthand.
he's not elite or anything but he'd be the best edge rusher we've had since the fourth of july in 2015 (I know not saying much but they are obviously hard to find).
Floyd looks a lot better on the Rams unit with talent all around him, but he's more of a swiss army knife in a bend don't break scheme. I'd rather have a versatile safety doing a lot of that role rather than the Edge having to play lateral or backwards.
Floyd looks a lot better on the Rams unit with talent all around him, but he's more of a swiss army knife in a bend don't break scheme. I'd rather have a versatile safety doing a lot of that role rather than the Edge having to play lateral or backwards.
The Rams don't put him in coverage much. 38 snaps this year so out of about 300 total. 162 rushing the passer. He's lined up on the DL for 279 of his snaps so it would seem he's only dropping into coverage 1-2 times per game (I assume zone blitzes).
only place to get those is the draft. I wanted Rousseau over Toney at the time and he's been really good for the Bills but I think Toney was the better pick.
McKinney over Epinesa last year looks like a possible mistake. Hasn't started putting up big numbers yet but he passes the eye test.
Ojulari is obviously promising.
Lawrence hasn't been a bust but he certainly hasn't provided the kind of impact expected yet.
big yardage for opposing O's who all appear to have figured this flaw out. We need DE's that can set the edge AND rush the passer.