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Johnathan Hankins, Linval Joseph, Dalvin Tomlinson

I Love Clams Casino : 10/13/2021 11:26 am
Why do the Giants keep doing this?
To be fair it's essentially worked until this year  
j_rud : 10/13/2021 11:27 am : link
.
Cost versus...  
BMac : 10/13/2021 11:28 am : link
...value within the Giants' scheme.
Barry Cofield  
FranknWeezer : 10/13/2021 11:31 am : link
as well.
Drafting IDL with second or third round picks.....  
MOOPS : 10/13/2021 11:33 am : link
with what appears to be the intent of letting them walk after their rookie contract does not seem like a sustainable plan.
Sadly, it's one of the few areas of the draft where we actually have success.
if you think DT2  
Platos : 10/13/2021 11:37 am : link
is the issue here then you got a problem.

our LBs all suck without Martinez
RE: Cost versus...  
j_rud : 10/13/2021 11:40 am : link
In comment 15411915 BMac said:
Quote:
...value within the Giants' scheme.


Next time Shelton is out there looking like a mom of 6 in yoga pants starting her "new year, new me!" routine while the 100 million dollar secondary is getting beaten like a drum perhaps they should reevaluate the value they're placing there.
Yeah he's 'not athletic'  
mattlawson : 10/13/2021 11:52 am : link
We need a Canty like player in there - just gigantic
RE: Barry Cofield  
McNally's_Nuts : 10/13/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15411926 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
as well.


Cornelius Griffin, too
The bigger whiffs  
JonC : 10/13/2021 12:30 pm : link
are their edge talent choices.
RE: The bigger whiffs  
Angel Eyes : 10/13/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15412052 JonC said:
Quote:
are their edge talent choices.

+1. For a guy who extols pass rush like Dave Gettleman, he hasn't done much to improve it.
it makes "some sense"  
hitdog42 : 10/13/2021 12:34 pm : link
until you blow the bank on Williams this year. Which negates the entire strategy of being good at finding big DTs but not paying them a 2nd contract.

i've always been annoyed by them not bringing back the young solid DTs- but this year is peak annoyance cause they overpaid a guy on a rebuilding team who is not THAT GUY. hes good... but hes not THAT GUY
Griffin, cofield  
Tuckrule : 10/13/2021 12:35 pm : link
It’s a giant tradition!
RE: To be fair it's essentially worked until this year  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/13/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15411912 j_rud said:
Quote:
.


It didn't work after they let Joseph walk in 2013. The Giants were 4th in rushing yards per attempt in 2013, and dead last in 2014.
RE: RE: To be fair it's essentially worked until this year  
j_rud : 10/13/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15412069 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 15411912 j_rud said:


Quote:


.



It didn't work after they let Joseph walk in 2013. The Giants were 4th in rushing yards per attempt in 2013, and dead last in 2014.


Good catch, I honestly did not know that.
RE: it makes  
JonC : 10/13/2021 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15412057 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
until you blow the bank on Williams this year. Which negates the entire strategy of being good at finding big DTs but not paying them a 2nd contract.

i've always been annoyed by them not bringing back the young solid DTs- but this year is peak annoyance cause they overpaid a guy on a rebuilding team who is not THAT GUY. hes good... but hes not THAT GUY


DG has shown a strange tendency to overpay or over offer for guys who are not (should not) be scheme-centric. Eg, Leonard, Norwell at OG rather than an OT, then wildly overpay for Solder in reaction, etc.
Linval in particular was a travesty.  
bceagle05 : 10/13/2021 12:48 pm : link
He was an excellent player and a key cog on a title team.
Actually this has NOT worked at all.  
Red Dog : 10/13/2021 1:11 pm : link
The GIANTS have been a disaster over the last decade and this absolute stupidity is one good reason why.

When one of these guys who has played well is allowed to walk, they have to use a high draft choice to replace him. And sometimes those draft choices don't work out. But even if the choice does work out, that's one more pick that can't be used to fortify some other position.

Anybody who thinks this kind of gross mis-management actually works is not playing with a full deck.

A better question was whether we should have let Williams walk  
cosmicj : 10/13/2021 1:14 pm : link
And retain Tomlinson maybe at a slightly richer level than his Minnesota contract. I was in favor of resigning LW but I think that alternative would be better.
RE: it makes  
The Jake : 10/13/2021 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15412057 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
until you blow the bank on Williams this year. Which negates the entire strategy of being good at finding big DTs but not paying them a 2nd contract.


This is a great point. Giving Williams the money he got, while not paying our home-grown talent, is a clear contradiction in philosophies. Williams getting a few extra sacks in a contract year is no justification for that.

DG is reactionary, not forward-thinking. Every move he makes is a response to a shitty situation that he either inherited or, more recently, created himself. And there is no consistency or clear vision to what he does.

He's a guy taking gigantic swings and misses, and growing ever more desperate.
Red Dog  
cosmicj : 10/13/2021 1:16 pm : link
I’m with you. I’ve been angry about every one of those DR/DL decisions.

Swapping a successful system fitting player for a roll of the dice on an outside player in the name of roster management has been a losing proposition.
cosmicj  
The Jake : 10/13/2021 1:17 pm : link
I think most Giants fans were in favor of re-signing LW.

But not for TOP defensive end money!
Linval & Cofield were the worst losses  
OdellBeckhamJr : 10/13/2021 1:27 pm : link
Linval was awesome here but nothing like he was in Minnesota.

It was part of the cap strategy, we had Eli on a big QB contract and had to use our draft resources to fill in the DL, typically in the 2nd round. It worked pretty well for them besides Marvin Austin.
I don’t think it’s worked well at all  
cosmicj : 10/13/2021 1:30 pm : link
Thin’ of it this way: you are exchanging paying a capable DT plus a 2nd round pick in return for paying a capable player at another position.

That sound like a good deal to you? Not to me.
if they were consistently  
Enzo : 10/13/2021 1:37 pm : link
plugging this hole with cheap vets or guys found later in the draft - that would be one thing. But having to spend high picks on these guys does not seem like an efficient way to build a team.
Everybody loves Dalvin Tomlinson  
Gruber : 10/13/2021 3:12 pm : link
now that he's left the building, but this board was leaning 90% and higher prioritising signing Leonard Williams, which meant not signing Tomlinson. I heard scarcely any dissenting voices, saying maybe it's more important to sign Tomlinson.
In fact, this guy back in March was clearly not happy with the decision to let Tomlinson walk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y37M3eWTzhU
RE: Everybody loves Dalvin Tomlinson  
j_rud : 10/13/2021 3:17 pm : link
In comment 15412332 Gruber said:
Quote:
now that he's left the building, but this board was leaning 90% and higher prioritising signing Leonard Williams, which meant not signing Tomlinson. I heard scarcely any dissenting voices, saying maybe it's more important to sign Tomlinson.
In fact, this guy back in March was clearly not happy with the decision to let Tomlinson walk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y37M3eWTzhU


I seem to remember a lot of people wanting to keep Dalvin. If left with a choice of only one Williams was the clear preference but there were many who wanted both retained. Especially when we saw what the Vikes got him for.

I think it's important to consider the loss of leadership and identity as well. Both Dex and Williams talked about DTs influence as the steady/tenured veteran, even as a guy on his first contract. Might be overstating it, but it bears mentioning that the D has been soft and rudderless.
Salary cap  
Beer Man : 10/13/2021 3:51 pm : link
at the amount of money these guys are getting.
Austin Johnson has been just fine replacing Tomlinson...  
KingBlue : 10/14/2021 10:38 am : link
At a fraction of the cost, with Johnson making $3 million on a one-year deal while Tomlinson signed a two-year, $21 million deal with $15.9 million guaranteed.

Johnson vs. Tomlinson

Games Played: 5 vs 5
Snaps Played: 190 vs 194
Tackles: 24 vs 11
Sacks: 3 vs 1
Pressures: 6 vs 7
Run Stops: 14 vs 7
PFF Grade: 62.3 vs 77.1

* This information was lifted from an article written on Big Blue View
RE: The bigger whiffs  
BamaBlue : 10/14/2021 10:48 am : link
In comment 15412052 JonC said:
Quote:
are their edge talent choices.


+1 Why go through the line when you can so easily go around it? Dallas got most of their 200 yards rushing by going around the right side of the defense. Graham and the defense had no solution.
Austin Johnson Has Not Been the Problem  
OntheRoad : 10/14/2021 3:19 pm : link

The biggest letdowns have been Leonard Williams, Dexter Lawrence, and the outside LBs who are not holding the edge.
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