Jason Garrett has been kicked in the nuts a lot (and with good reason) since last year. Patrick Graham is starting to draw fire for his poor defensive unit this season. Rightly so. Dave Gettleman gets his share of abuse here - also well deserved. And John Mara gets plenty of ire around here as well.
Leonard Williams is drawing fire now. Jones has been getting flack, of course since he was drafted. Many of us have even put a jaundice eye on Saquon. There’s a lot of different villains here on BBI and most stand accused with good reason. The Giants have been terrible.
But the one person who seems to have eluded almost any criticism is Joe Judge.
The lack of criticism for Judge seems odd for any number of reasons. Coaching is very important in the NFL. There’s plenty of NFL experts and former players and coaches that say coaching is *the* difference between winning and losing in the league. Maybe. Maybe not. But let’s agree that the coach on any NFL team is hardly an insignificant input to the equation for success. Culture, organization, schemes, personnel and game management are huge factors in winning in the NFL. The HC is ultimately responsible for much of these factors.
Experience matters. And Joe Judge had none as a HC at any level. This isn’t lost on any of us. And no previous HC experience is not necessarily a disqualifier for success. But, if you’ve never been a HC and then you take over a team and that team is lousy, maybe it’s fair to begin to wonder if you are the problem?
Take the defense for example. It’s been bad and maybe that’s Grahams fault. But shouldn’t the HC step in and make adjustments? Ditto the offense. Remember when Sean Payton was O-co and Fassel took over play calling? Happens fairly regularly in the league I think. But could Judge even do this on either side of the ball? And haven’t Special Teams gotten worse under Judge? Idk. Anyway, ultimately the HC is responsible for wins and losses and Judges record is pathetic.
Maybe the reason the Giants are so bad is that Joe Judge isn’t a good head coach?
The Giants have a good coaching staff with proven winners.
The organization is in disarray, from top to bottom.
Everyone is a problem.
It's time to clean house.
I was wondering about that myself. I guess some people see what they want to see.
Not only is it not true that no one is blaming Judge, almost everyone assigns him at least some of the blame. The best you will see is that he deserves a 3rd year.
I think he deserves another year, but how long are you gonna let a guy start out 1-5 or whatever every year before its time to move on
+1
Again, just my impression, but I wonder what he has changed or if the players have already begun to tune him out.
Nostalgic loyalty to Eli along with keeping Reese instead of canning him along with Coughlin are IMO arguably the 2 biggest blunders of the last decade. Absolutely emblematic of the leadership failings and blindspots.
Because there isnt a coach thats ever lived that could win this game coming up this week with all these starters hurt
What other team, college or pro, gives up a TD at the end of every single half???
There is not one single cause of the Giants extended failure. It is all of these pieces working in tandem.
+1. First indication was pre-season, not playing the starters, etc... Very different vibe/feel than last year - even when we were losing.
But he was hired with training wheels (Garrett), a GM way past his prime (assuming he actually had one), and Jones is NOT his QB. So that's a lot of key ingredients to inherit.
So I'm willing to be more patient with him. But I certainly get the criticism.
Exactly. If the Giants don't rebound and head into the offseason with a sub 5 win record and a top 5 pick, they have a rare opportunity to reset with a new GM, couch, and QB should they choose to. Doing so will basically eliminate the ability to add more years to a rebuild by trotting out some, "We need to see how X will do with a different Y" excuse.
But he was hired with training wheels (Garrett), a GM way past his prime (assuming he actually had one), and Jones is NOT his QB. So that's a lot of key ingredients to inherit.
So I'm willing to be more patient with him. But I certainly get the criticism.
And sometimes he doesn't understand the rules of the game, like throwing a challenge flag on a scoring play which cost 15 yards, and he hasn't been really sharp with his timeouts.
I don't think Judge is a lost cause by any means, but I also don't think he was as prepared to be a HC in the NFL as many of us - including me - believed.
agreed. otherwise they might as well just give them another year.
The Giants have a good coaching staff with proven winners.
Andy - I love your sarcasm!
This...4 head coaches in 6 years? It is NOT the coaching. It is how this team is being built. 10 years of an inconsistent OL and defensive front seven. We are 59-91 since the 2011 Superbowl.
I have no issues with growing on the job. Make mistakes. Acknowledge, correct and press forward.
What is different today is you do not get very much time to see results before the player's (media even faster) turn on you.
The "Process" has to translate in results and imo very soon.
I am concerned also at his ability to evaluate talent both in players and coaches.
No KO return or punt returns for sure.
But has the specials even caused a turnover? I can't recall.
Gano's been lights out but he's the kicker, I could coach him lol...just let him do his thing.
Really weird.
It's not easy to go from the next Parcells to dog meat.
He's been dreadful this year and any benefit of the doubt he earned last year has dried up through these first five games, or at least that's what Mara should be thinking.
I have no issues with growing on the job. Make mistakes. Acknowledge, correct and press forward.
What is different today is you do not get very much time to see results before the player's (media even faster) turn on you.
The "Process" has to translate in results and imo very soon.
I am concerned also at his ability to evaluate talent both in players and coaches.
And they could even easier be 0-5.
As fans, all we see is the in-game decisions. We don't know what goes on in practices and meeting rooms. Whether or not he's a good coach? All we really have to go by is the end results and we have to ask ourselves: Is the team improving? Do they look like they will be a contender soon? Right now I would say no and no.
This summer there were a lot of poster here who thought Judge was heavily influencing the GM. There’s been plenty of people who have suggested getting rid of Getty and giving Judge the authority to pick his own GM.
But, yeah, I haven’t seen much criticism of Judge as the HC.
The organization is in disarray, from top to bottom.
Everyone is a problem.
+1
The Giants are one of those organizations that drag people into incompetence. You take a guy like Garrett who has experienced a lot of NFL success and suddenly he is being heavily criticized while running a bottom rung offensive program. Mark Koncz ran a quite successful pro personnel program for decades and the Giants pro acquisitions are a garbage barge.
Are all of these people incompetent? I’m very skeptical. I think the Giants are a Vortex of Suck.
Quote:
there's not just one problem?
The organization is in disarray, from top to bottom.
Everyone is a problem.
+1
The Giants are one of those organizations that drag people into incompetence. You take a guy like Garrett who has experienced a lot of NFL success and suddenly he is being heavily criticized while running a bottom rung offensive program. Mark Koncz ran a quite successful pro personnel program for decades and the Giants pro acquisitions are a garbage barge.
Are all of these people incompetent? I’m very skeptical. I think the Giants are a Vortex of Suck.
There's something to be said for this. Justin Pugh is a solid starter for Arizona. Flowers is doing okay (at best) in Washington. Zeitler is fine in Baltimore. Zeitler and Solder were solid offensive linemen and sucked here. Hernandez as a rookie was a WAY better guard than he is now.
Thomas is probably the first player in years who actually improved while wearing blue (Well, and Gates, but thanks to a bonehead decision to move him to guard, he may have sadly played his last NFL game). Literally everyone else has treaded water or gotten worse the longer they've been in the uniform.
There's a lot of reasons why, but overall, the organization is just rotten to the core.
As fans, all we see is the in-game decisions. We don't know what goes on in practices and meeting rooms. Whether or not he's a good coach? All we really have to go by is the end results and we have to ask ourselves: Is the team improving? Do they look like they will be a contender soon? Right now I would say no and no.
Shurmur had a distinct inability to talk a good game and that's part of what led to his demise.
Judge has not done anything to this point in his tenure to be handed that level of responsibility.
No, it’s Shurmur!
No, it’s Judge!
You can’t win games consistently if you don’t control the LOS on either side of the ball. We don’t. Period.
No, it’s Shurmur!
No, it’s Judge!
You can’t win games consistently if you don’t control the LOS on either side of the ball. We don’t. Period.
So weird, I could have sworn that DG promised that he was going to build the roster from the lines out.
I liked Judge too after his first presser. I liked him a lot and that presser allayed much of my concern about his lack of HC experience. But since then, what’s he done to keep our trust? He’s not winning games and no one seems to be getting better or improving. I get it, he seems like he should be a good coach, but at what point does he need to be held accountable for something more then talking to the media?