Daniel Jones ranked 18th QB

In comment 15413822 Archer said:

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Are you willing to draft Willis in the hopes that he will be a great QB? What happens if he is a bust what then How often do the Giants keep starting over Willis is a project who will take years to develop are you willing to put up with 2-3 more years of bad football with no certainty that he will pan out? You know what you have with Jones build a team around him If there was an exceptional QB available I might think differently but all of the QBs have deficiencies.

I'm willing to let this year play out with Jones. If he doesn't look like the long term solution, yes, I would support making a high investment in Willis.

I don't know how long Willis would take to develop. But he is worth the stretch...

In comment 15413831 Archer said:

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So lets see if Jones can make more plays and score more TDs It would seem if he can do that then you would be on board? Jones has lost two tds this year, his run that negated by holding and the the dropped pass by Slayton Lets see what happens going forward

We need a top-8 QB to be a consistent Super Bowl contender. That to me is the general rule. If Jones becomes that, of course I am on board. I will be thrilled to be wrong. I think in year three the likelihood this will happen is exceedingly low. How many QBs go from subpar to elite after year 3. It's not many in the recent history of the game. Especially if they don't have unique traits. I know many point to Josh Allen but he also had staggering athletic and passing traits to go along with a lot of wins. I don't see the comparison, at all. This is why I feel it is an imperative to see the truth of the situation. Banking on Jones transforming into an elite QB is an extremely low probability. So while I do not favor cutting or trading Jones unless we get a great offer, I do think we need to explore every avenue to upgrade.

The larger question is what to do if Jones is merely good. What if he winds up in the Mayfield/Cousins range - also a low probability event at this stage but not as low as Jones becoming top-8. Is that good enough? Tough call, but I say ultimately, no, that is not good enough. Are the Vikes happy they sunk all that money into Cousins? I don't think so. I always say here, and nobody seems to acknowledge it, this is about game theory. The game within the game in the NFL is to acquire an elite QB by any means necessary. Then you're in the game. Until then, we are just bystanders, imo, unless we get unbelievably lucky and build the 2000 Ravens - but even that luck only lasts a couple of seasons.

In comment 15413823 bw in dc said:

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Here are some highlights from 2020. Some interesting ability... Willis - ( New Window )

Thanks I will check this out tonight!

He is passable

In comment 15413823 bw in dc said:

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Here are some highlights from 2020. Some interesting ability... Willis - ( New Window )

I like him. He looks to have solid arm talent and he has the burst of a wide out. He does get run down by a defender in the long run but he is an explosive and decisive runner. I wish he was bigger. He reminds me of Kyler a bit. Less explosive but maybe a better arm.

If you draft him you have to build an offense designed for him a la Lamar and Kyler.

The throw at 4:40 under pressure where he hits the receiver 40+ down the sideline is a special throw. The throw at 5:35 against VT on the run is terrific.

The runs against VT are really good. VT has excellent athletes and Willis looks a tier above them.

The throw at 7:44 falling back before he gets hit is a sweet long throw.

He throws a rocket moving up and into the pocket at the 8:10 mark for a TD. That ball had vapor behind it.

I sort of see a mix of Russell Wilson with his body type and LJax with his ability to escape and run.

In comment 15413822 Archer said:

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Are you willing to draft Willis in the hopes that he will be a great QB? how's that different than the last 2.25 seasons? But yes What happens if he is a bust what then How often do the Giants keep starting over until they get it right Willis is a project who will take years to develop are you willing to put up with 2-3 more years of bad football with no certainty that he will pan out? yes. A full reboot with a clear vision would do a lot for my confidence. Including being OK with 2-3 years of growing pains. Better than the perpetual "one year/ player away" folly we're in now You know what you have with Jones build a team around him If there was an exceptional QB available I might think differently but all of the QBs have deficiencies.

Replies in bold

In comment 15413964 bw in dc said:

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The throw at 4:40 under pressure where he hits the receiver 40+ down the sideline is a special throw. The throw at 5:35 against VT on the run is terrific. The runs against VT are really good. VT has excellent athletes and Willis looks a tier above them. The throw at 7:44 falling back before he gets hit is a sweet long throw. He throws a rocket moving up and into the pocket at the 8:10 mark for a TD. That ball had vapor behind it. I sort of see a mix of Russell Wilson with his body type and LJax with his ability to escape and run.

I like those, especially 5:35. Ability to throw on the run is impressive.

I actually like his intermediate throws. The one at 1.33 is 35 yards but it's across the field and the cameraman doesn't keep up with it.

Which of the Qbs drafted last year would you want for the Giants?

Lawrence
Fields
Lance
Wilson
Jones

None of these QBs presently look like a franchise QB
That doesn't mean that they won't develop into very good QBs.

Jones looked better as a rookie then they do now .
None of these QBs has had a game that can remotely close to Jones game vs. Tampa.

Drafting a QB is a crap shoot and if you had watched the college highlights of these QBs you would come away thinking that they were going to be all stars.

That brings me to the 2021 crop of QBs. There is no Lawrence in the group. There are QBs that have similar profiles and potential to last years group. But there is no sure thing.

So wishing to obtain a top 5 QB is a remote, possibility. Even finding a QB that is better than Jones is not likely.

I would rather use the Giants draft capitol to build the team. Find a stud edge, an interior LB, back up running back, a stud OT, and a stud OG.

As for Jones he may never be a Mahomes, or Brady, or Wilson, etc. but I think that Jones upside is a more athletic version of Eli

Look at Eli's first four years. The Giants won more games but there were Giant fans clamoring for his head.

In his first four years Eli never exceeded 24 TDs, his QB rating never exceeded 77, he had 20 ints in his fourth year.

What Eli became was a winner and that is my hope for Jones

In comment 15413982 Archer said:

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Which of the Qbs drafted last year would you want for the Giants? Lawrence Fields Lance Wilson Jones

Interesting question.

From a physical skills standpoint and upside/high ceiling, I'd take Lawrence, Fields, and Lance over Jones right now. Just too many tools to work with.

I like Wilson, but I'm more neutral on him right now. Not a fan of Jones's overall physical attributes. Very limited.

So I would take 3 of the five you mentioned. I just don't see anything special about Jones. I think pretty good-good is his upside range.

In comment 15414032 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15413982 Archer said: Quote: Which of the Qbs drafted last year would you want for the Giants? Lawrence Fields Lance Wilson Jones Interesting question. From a physical skills standpoint and upside/high ceiling, I'd take Lawrence, Fields, and Lance over Jones right now. Just too many tools to work with. I like Wilson, but I'm more neutral on him right now. Not a fan of Jones's overall physical attributes. Very limited. So I would take 3 of the five you mentioned. I just don't see anything special about Jones. I think pretty good-good is his upside range.

For me, definitely Lawrence and Lance. Probably, Fields and Wilson. No interest in Mac.

In comment 15413982 Archer said:

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Which of the Qbs drafted last year would you want for the Giants? Lawrence Fields Lance Wilson Jones None of these QBs presently look like a franchise QB That doesn't mean that they won't develop into very good QBs.

You're judging Trevor Lawrence after five games played under the shitshow that is Urban Meyer? That's harsh.
I'd happily take Trevor Lawrence over Daniel Jones, but I'd also want to take a long, hard look at how we are going to develop him and what kind of offense we should really be playing.

In comment 15413849 Producer said:

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We need a top-8 QB to be a consistent Super Bowl contender. That to me is the general rule. If Jones becomes that, of course I am on board. I will be thrilled to be wrong. I think in year three the likelihood this will happen is exceedingly low. How many QBs go from subpar to elite after year 3. It's not many in the recent history of the game. Especially if they don't have unique traits. I know many point to Josh Allen but he also had staggering athletic and passing traits to go along with a lot of wins. I don't see the comparison, at all. This is why I feel it is an imperative to see the truth of the situation. Banking on Jones transforming into an elite QB is an extremely low probability. So while I do not favor cutting or trading Jones unless we get a great offer, I do think we need to explore every avenue to upgrade. The larger question is what to do if Jones is merely good. What if he winds up in the Mayfield/Cousins range - also a low probability event at this stage but not as low as Jones becoming top-8. Is that good enough? Tough call, but I say ultimately, no, that is not good enough. Are the Vikes happy they sunk all that money into Cousins? I don't think so. I always say here, and nobody seems to acknowledge it, this is about game theory. The game within the game in the NFL is to acquire an elite QB by any means necessary. Then you're in the game. Until then, we are just bystanders, imo, unless we get unbelievably lucky and build the 2000 Ravens - but even that luck only lasts a couple of seasons.

This is a great post, especially the part about the game within the game.

That we won two Super Bowls with Eli Manning, who was a #1 pick but yet an above average (not elite) player, was a miracle, not a business model.

Look at some of the QBs who made the SB, albeit not winning them over the last handful of years:

- Cam Newton
- Matt Ryan
- Jared Goff
- Jimmy Garrapolo
- Nick Foles
- Peyton Manning (2nd title win)

Now I understand people will tell me that cam and Ryan were MVPs.... but consistently they were not top 10 QBs in the league. They had amazing years yes - but neither of them are HOF bound (nor shouldnt be). Catching lightning in a bottle is risky. To be a contender, you need health, good interior line play, and a little luck.

Having a top tier QB just gives you more opportunities to get there.

And I think there's a good chance he can move up to the 12-15 range. That would be good enough to keep him, IMO, under 2 conditions:
1. The money is right.
2. He gets better at protecting himself.