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Why can’t a potential new GM inherit Judge?

Sean : 10/13/2021 6:34 pm
I keep seeing the point made about HC/GM needing to be on the same schedule. I don’t see this as the case for a few reasons:

1. I think it would look very poorly to potential head coaches if Judge is shit canned after two seasons. If the THIRD straight head coach is fired after two seasons or less, other coaches take notice of that. Add in the fact that Judge was hired to be a program builder and first time head coach, I think it is a bad look to fire him so soon. Also consider that he inherited an older GM on the hot seat, inherited a QB which he did not draft & dealt with Covid in his first year.

2. Why does an outside GM need to be tied together with Judge? Let’s say a young executive is hired from the outside, he would clearly be hired to be the GM for hopefully at least 10 years. If Judge does poorly in 2022, this new GM would have influence on the next head coach anyway. He would have a longer leash than Judge, which is typical for GM’s. Let’s take a look at the Cardinals:

Steve Keim is viewed as one of the better GM’s right now. He was hired as GM after coming through the organization in 2013. This was the same year Bruce Arians was hired as head coach.
-Was Keim removed from the position when Arians retired? No.
-Was Keim removed from the position when Steve Wilks was one & done? No.

Keim is now on his third coach and the team is winning.

Gettleman is 70 and on his 4th season as GM. His record is 16-37. He should go, he’s had sufficient time. Judge is only on year 2.

My point is, if Mara hires a GM outside (let’s say Ryan Poles for example), I don’t see the harm in keeping Judge another year. The new GM would outlast him anyway.
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If Judge has  
lecky : 10/13/2021 6:39 pm : link
shown anything, or if he turns things around, sure, I think they should keep him. Unfortunately there is not one aspect of this team that excels. And for a guy that preaches discipline the team, so far, has been quite the opposite. Stupid penalties, timeouts on defense, bad challenges, way too conservative and then there is the other team scoring at the end of every 1st half. What is that about?
I agree that Judge has a lot to prove still..  
Sean : 10/13/2021 6:43 pm : link
And if this team goes 3-14 or worse, I don’t think he’ll be back. But, I don’t think keeping him with a new GM is a problem.
I don’t understand it either  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/13/2021 6:53 pm : link
Look at Detroit. Caldwell got the Lions into the playoffs 2 times in four years which by Detroit standards is HOF worthy. GM fires him to bring in Patricia.

Same deal with QB’s/HC’s.

Bottom line is talent is talent inherited or not imv.

Sometimes ego overrides quality assessment.

It took Belichick several seasons  
KeoweeFan : 10/13/2021 6:55 pm : link
to get his feet on the ground. Bet Cleveland wished they stayed with him.

As NYG DC many of us recognized he was something special.
To me JJ has similar traits.

A former GM intoned "never give up on talent".
(No, DG only repeated the quote w/r/t OBJ.)
RE: I don’t understand it either  
Sean : 10/13/2021 6:56 pm : link
In comment 15412642 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Look at Detroit. Caldwell got the Lions into the playoffs 2 times in four years which by Detroit standards is HOF worthy. GM fires him to bring in Patricia.

Same deal with QB’s/HC’s.

Bottom line is talent is talent inherited or not imv.

Sometimes ego overrides quality assessment.

Excellent point.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/13/2021 7:00 pm : link
I don't get that line of thinking either. And I think it's the most likely outcome come January: a new GM working in tandem with JJ.
The only way to justify  
Dave on the UWS : 10/13/2021 7:02 pm : link
Judge staying is if he gets to pick a GM to work with.
Sadly, as long as John is making the ultimate decisions and Chris is making the ultimate personnel recommendations, none of the rest matters. It will just be rinse and repeat.?
Why would a new GM want to keep him?  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/13/2021 7:03 pm : link
What exactly has he done to be untouchable? At some point, he has to produce. Sure, he says the right things in press conferences, and from the outside looking in, it seems like he has the right approach, but he has to win.

It’s time for John Mara to make some uncomfortable decisions, step outside of his bubble, and hire someone innovative to get this organization back on track.

If that new personal in charge wants their own coach, so be it.

And I’m a Judge fan.
The new GM should have the option to kepp judge WITHOUT  
JohnB : 10/13/2021 7:04 pm : link
Mara's opinion being part of the conversation.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/13/2021 7:09 pm : link
I too believe the GM-if he doesn't think JJ is the answer-should have the option to pick his one coach.

But I think the likeliest option is new GM & JJ is still our HC.
RE: Why would a new GM want to keep him?  
Sean : 10/13/2021 7:24 pm : link
In comment 15412660 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
What exactly has he done to be untouchable? At some point, he has to produce. Sure, he says the right things in press conferences, and from the outside looking in, it seems like he has the right approach, but he has to win.

It’s time for John Mara to make some uncomfortable decisions, step outside of his bubble, and hire someone innovative to get this organization back on track.

If that new personal in charge wants their own coach, so be it.

And I’m a Judge fan.

Why would a new coach want to come to the Giants if they don’t get more than two years to fix things? Add in what I said in my OP about the conditions Judge has dealt with, it is a bad look for the franchise.
lets see where we are at early Dec  
mpinmaine : 10/13/2021 7:25 pm : link
I think DG gets the axe but except for what I read on here the only basis I have to say that is the record..

If NY wins 7 out of the last 12 that's improvement.
I am not saying they will.

If they finish with 5 wins its a big disappointment.

IDK what they will do with DG in either scenario...or something in the middle like 6-11

I think JJ is the coach unless the win only 2 or 3 games and
the team quits playing for him...New GM or not.
RE: lets see where we are at early Dec  
Sean : 10/13/2021 7:30 pm : link
In comment 15412690 mpinmaine said:
Quote:
I think DG gets the axe but except for what I read on here the only basis I have to say that is the record..

If NY wins 7 out of the last 12 that's improvement.
I am not saying they will.

If they finish with 5 wins its a big disappointment.

IDK what they will do with DG in either scenario...or something in the middle like 6-11

I think JJ is the coach unless the win only 2 or 3 games and
the team quits playing for him...New GM or not.

Well said.
Judge isn’t going anywhere  
Dave in PA : 10/13/2021 7:30 pm : link
Unless the ship crashes, bursts into flame, gets attacked by a white whale and then sinks to the deepest part of the ocean
He can  
GiantGrit : 10/13/2021 7:30 pm : link
the point on firing three coaches in a row after only 2 seasons is valid. Makes the job harder to sell.


What I want will not happen, but a new GM or HC is not fixing the major organizational problems. I like what Terps said, ownership is the main problem and everything else is a symptom.

Nothing short of the Mara's hiring someone from a stellar organization with a stellar track record as president of football or bare minimum a GM with publicly stated full power will give me hope.

But if the scouting department is truly that bad, and you need to gut football ops, that will take YEARS to fix. Which is why you'd be better off hiring someone to oversee everything and accepting a full rebuilding of the foundation here means we're probably 2 coaches away.

Thats part of the Giants problem, I see no vision or forward thinking. They are a reactive organization. It feels like they have no 5 year plan, everything is done on a whim (makes sense with people's jobs and livelihood being on the line).

As we've seen, the hit rate on HC's here is...not good lately. Firing Judge and hiring someone else with "full power"...does nothing for me.

For the record i think Joe Judge will eventually be a good HC, it may just not be here. I see little adaptability from him and its frustrating because if he did, this team would be in a better spot right now.

Way too much pride in that building to hire an outside consultant firm to audit what needs improving. I'm not really an asshat but I do know people who work with them -by all accounts John Mara is a good guy and he knows what an outside perspective would mean - you're giving pink slips to a lot of people you care about.

Totally frustrating to be a Giants fan right now. Defeating really.
RE: lets see where we are at early Dec  
GiantGrit : 10/13/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15412690 mpinmaine said:
Quote:
I think DG gets the axe but except for what I read on here the only basis I have to say that is the record..

If NY wins 7 out of the last 12 that's improvement.
I am not saying they will.

If they finish with 5 wins its a big disappointment.

IDK what they will do with DG in either scenario...or something in the middle like 6-11

I think JJ is the coach unless the win only 2 or 3 games and
the team quits playing for him...New GM or not.


Agreed, no matter how many years ownership is willing to give a HC it comes down to improvement and also guys playing for him. To this point they have. Once they quit, he's cooked.
If you believe in Judge...  
bw in dc : 10/13/2021 7:33 pm : link
he should select his GM.

If not, the next HC should select his GM.

I want the GM to have a reporting line to the HC.

Judge will pick his next GM  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/13/2021 7:33 pm : link
You heard it hear first.
RE: If you believe in Judge...  
Sean : 10/13/2021 7:38 pm : link
In comment 15412701 bw in dc said:
Quote:
he should select his GM.

If not, the next HC should select his GM.

I want the GM to have a reporting line to the HC.

Yes. This really is where the league is headed.
Mara’s been hiring the coaches for some time  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/13/2021 7:44 pm : link
It started with bringing in BM as OC to install the WCO along with other organizational shifts. Factions rule the organization with competing agendas.

Not sure how a new GM changes very much.
People can't see past their blood lust  
dancing blue bear : 10/13/2021 7:47 pm : link
for Gettlemen.

It's funny because the people screaming we can replace the GM and keep the coach, are the same ones that complain about half measures and how we have screwed up in the past having coach and GM hirings not in some sort of pre ordained alignment.

Judge should not be given the keys. he hasn't earned it. Nor should he be fired after 2 seasons. Jury is still out on Jones, but it is promising. Those 2 are already on the "same schedule" I would like to see how this year plays out, for starters. If there is improvement I would give them all 1 more year.

Then you have a GM hire his coach. They draft a QB. a complete reboot.

All that said, I think people over rate what the GM does. The GM by his own definition supports the coach. Gettlemen has said that is why he doesn't speak in season. He believes the coach is the leader of the org. The GM is more of a beaurocrat.

All of these decisions, draft, FA, resign, let walk... they are all organizational decisions. Many people weigh in on them. The GM chairs those meetings.

Personally I think the giants have drafted well lately. I think players develop differently, but it takes time for them to learn the game. Also I like the FA we have gotten, by and large, particularly the last 2 years.

I don't love or hate gettlemen. he has done some things well. some not. probably similar to most executives.

I do like judge, and think he has a chance to develop into a good coach

I like jones and think he will be a good player in the league.

but, like you, these are my uneducated opinions
I don’t disagree with you  
10thAve : 10/13/2021 7:54 pm : link
But I wouldn’t be against a new GM moving on from him either.

Though I have a gut feeling we see the same cast of characters next year as well, with more hollow decrees in the off-season.

However, I’d be interested to know when and why Sean changed his mind on this. I feel like in the past he’s been a proponent of GM/HC being on the same schedule, in fact as early as 2018. Nothing wrong with changing your mind, just interesting seeing the shift. Is it because you still believe in Judge? I feel like many of us are hopeful for Judge but this year is definitely a step in the wrong direction.
RE: I don’t disagree with you  
Angel Eyes : 10/13/2021 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15412723 10thAve said:
Quote:
But I wouldn’t be against a new GM moving on from him either.

Though I have a gut feeling we see the same cast of characters next year as well, with more hollow decrees in the off-season.

However, I’d be interested to know when and why Sean changed his mind on this. I feel like in the past he’s been a proponent of GM/HC being on the same schedule, in fact as early as 2018. Nothing wrong with changing your mind, just interesting seeing the shift. Is it because you still believe in Judge? I feel like many of us are hopeful for Judge but this year is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

That didn't happen after 2019 after Shurmer was fired and Gettleman remained.
Dancing Blue  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/13/2021 7:56 pm : link
Good post. I agree about the one more year. 2020’21 drafts have been good. Next years is critical and they have lots of premium picks.

If the new GM wants to keep Judge fine.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/13/2021 8:01 pm : link
But I would let them know that it's both of their asses if the ship goes down. Again.

A package deal keeps the agendas in line.
RE: Judge isn’t going anywhere  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/13/2021 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15412695 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Unless the ship crashes, bursts into flame, gets attacked by a white whale and then sinks to the deepest part of the ocean


As some glass half-full posters say around here, let's see where the season goes...
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/13/2021 8:07 pm : link
I apologize, but I LOL @ these 'I don't get the hate for Gettleman' arguments.

Are we watching the same product? This has been a complete dumpster fire since he's been here. I have NO idea how ANYONE defends him.
RE: RE: Why would a new GM want to keep him?  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/13/2021 8:08 pm : link
In comment 15412689 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15412660 Vin_Cuccs said:


Quote:


What exactly has he done to be untouchable? At some point, he has to produce. Sure, he says the right things in press conferences, and from the outside looking in, it seems like he has the right approach, but he has to win.

It’s time for John Mara to make some uncomfortable decisions, step outside of his bubble, and hire someone innovative to get this organization back on track.

If that new personal in charge wants their own coach, so be it.

And I’m a Judge fan.


Why would a new coach want to come to the Giants if they don’t get more than two years to fix things? Add in what I said in my OP about the conditions Judge has dealt with, it is a bad look for the franchise.


A coach would want to come here because there are only 32 jobs. I think one of the biggest myths around is that coaches don’t want to go places due to situations or reputations. If the money is right, they’ll go.

The amount of years a coach gets is irrelevant. It’s either the right fit, or it’s not. If a new GM comes in, and wants his own guy, nothing Judge has done to this point should stop that. A new GM should have that option.

Again, I’ll reiterate… I like Judge. I hope it works out. But there are certainly some warning signs here. I do think that he will stay on though. Mara’s loyalty will get the better of him again.
RE: Dancing Blue  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/13/2021 8:10 pm : link
In comment 15412725 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Good post. I agree about the one more year. 2020’21 drafts have been good. Next years is critical and they have lots of premium picks.


The '20 draft has been good? Besides AT, who has impressed? McKinney has been a complete disappointment. Peart had a nice game vs. Dallas, but let's see if that continues. Holmes...next. Lemiuex...total ? mark. Cam Brown...next. Carter Coughlin...does he have a pulse? Shall I continue?
If you hire a new GM that isn't eye to eye with the HC  
AdamBrag : 10/13/2021 8:11 pm : link
you get three main problems:

1 - The coach might want players for his system, the GM might want the best players, even if they don't fit the system. The GM knows that they are going to be evaluated by the player selections.

2 - If the coach and GM are on different time lines, then you get misalignment of interests. The concern with keeping DG and hiring Judge is that DG was on the hot seat, while Judge is not. Judge might have wanted to build a team for the future and DG is trying to win now to save himself. Similarly, if DG leaves and Judge is on the hot seat, you have a new GM who will want to build for the future, but Judge will complain that he needs talent to win now.

3 - Judge was hired as a builder of culture and one that could help develop the organization. He wasn't just hired to be an Xs and Os guy. If the new GM isn't aligned to Judge's beliefs, how do you manage that? Who is the culture bearer?

Long story short, if the GM and the coach aren't on the same page, it is highly likely it will be a dysfunctional organization.
RE: The only way to justify  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 10/13/2021 8:20 pm : link
In comment 15412657 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
Judge staying is if he gets to pick a GM to work with.
Sadly, as long as John is making the ultimate decisions and Chris is making the ultimate personnel recommendations, none of the rest matters. It will just be rinse and repeat.?


Judge hasn't earned the right to pick his fucking GM. Not even close.
Just let the new GM decide…  
trueblueinpw : 10/13/2021 8:24 pm : link
I don’t think Judge has done anything very impressive to this point. But putting that aside, what we just don’t want is to limit the pool of GM candidates by stipulating that Judge must remain the HC.

I would love to know what the people around the NFL say about Judge. If the scuttlebutt is that he’s a promising up and comer then a potential GM wouldn’t be adverse to keeping him around another year. But if people in the NFL think Judge is in over his head they wouldn’t want to be saddled by him and they might avoid the Giants altogether.

So, just tell the new GM, it’s up to you.
Not saying Judge is perfect, nor the next Belicheck  
BSIMatt : 10/13/2021 8:28 pm : link
However, by all accounts in 2020 Judge was well received. He took that roster farther than it should have been able to go last year. We are 5 games into 2021, and people are in a rush to assess him. That should happen after all the games are played, not 5 games in. You also have to separate Judge from the Maras, or Gettleman, or Barkley, or Solder, or Jones. Frustration of Giants fans has built up over a decade, Judge got here last year.
RE: RE: Dancing Blue  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/13/2021 8:30 pm : link
In comment 15412740 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15412725 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


Good post. I agree about the one more year. 2020’21 drafts have been good. Next years is critical and they have lots of premium picks.




The '20 draft has been good? Besides AT, who has impressed? McKinney has been a complete disappointment. Peart had a nice game vs. Dallas, but let's see if that continues. Holmes...next. Lemiuex...total ? mark. Cam Brown...next. Carter Coughlin...does he have a pulse? Shall I continue?


No need to continue. My expectation is they come out of it with bookend tackles. Lemieux got hurt but the HC sure liked him. Cam has been hurt. He is good on specials and I think a capable back up LB who can run. Coughlin is a need to see more. So I see bookend tackles and players that will be in the league a few years. McKinney will come around. Some players warrant a little time and these players seem worthy to my eye.
LOS.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/13/2021 8:32 pm : link
From your lips to God's ear. I'm not encouraged by the '20 draft, AT aside. I had really high hopes for McKinney, but he's been meh. I get that he was injured most of last year so this is pretty much his rookie season.

I hope Peart starts here on out.
GM should be allowed to pick the coach  
KDavies : 10/13/2021 8:32 pm : link
you cite Gettleman’s record in the OP. How would it be fair to hold a GM responsible if they are forced to have a coach they don’t want? If the new GM wanted to keep Judge, fine. But it should be their decision
RE: LOS.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/13/2021 8:39 pm : link
In comment 15412769 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
From your lips to God's ear. I'm not encouraged by the '20 draft, AT aside. I had really high hopes for McKinney, but he's been meh. I get that he was injured most of last year so this is pretty much his rookie season.

I hope Peart starts here on out.


Many years of losing can frustrate all of us. McKinney needs to step up but I believe the talent is in him. Some players develop at different speeds. Hopefully he ramps up.

It was expected that Peart would need time . Sale had been working with him and I think he is going to be a really good OL coach. He likes Peart and I think he just wanted time to work with him. Like Thomas I think we see improvement.
If they want to.  
FStubbs : 10/13/2021 8:41 pm : link
Shouldn't be a mandate, as Judge is trending to be worse than Shurmur unless he can radically somehow turn the ship around.
RE: If they want to.  
Sean : 10/13/2021 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15412779 FStubbs said:
Quote:
Shouldn't be a mandate, as Judge is trending to be worse than Shurmur unless he can radically somehow turn the ship around.

If he’s worse than Shurmur I don’t see Judge being back. Shurmur went 4-12 in his second season.
I like Judge, but he's burning through his credit  
Go Terps : 10/13/2021 8:54 pm : link
I can't see Mara firing a third consecutive coach after a second season.

I also don't think he has a high opinion of his players. If he does it's not reflected in his coaching.
RE: People can't see past their blood lust  
Scooter185 : 10/13/2021 8:59 pm : link
In comment 15412716 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
for Gettlemen.

It's funny because the people screaming we can replace the GM and keep the coach, are the same ones that complain about half measures and how we have screwed up in the past having coach and GM hirings not in some sort of pre ordained alignment.

Judge should not be given the keys. he hasn't earned it. Nor should he be fired after 2 seasons. Jury is still out on Jones, but it is promising. Those 2 are already on the "same schedule" I would like to see how this year plays out, for starters. If there is improvement I would give them all 1 more year.

Then you have a GM hire his coach. They draft a QB. a complete reboot.

All that said, I think people over rate what the GM does. The GM by his own definition supports the coach. Gettlemen has said that is why he doesn't speak in season. He believes the coach is the leader of the org. The GM is more of a beaurocrat.

All of these decisions, draft, FA, resign, let walk... they are all organizational decisions. Many people weigh in on them. The GM chairs those meetings.

Personally I think the giants have drafted well lately. I think players develop differently, but it takes time for them to learn the game. Also I like the FA we have gotten, by and large, particularly the last 2 years.

I don't love or hate gettlemen. he has done some things well. some not. probably similar to most executives.

I do like judge, and think he has a chance to develop into a good coach

I like jones and think he will be a good player in the league.

but, like you, these are my uneducated opinions


I'm tired of "one more year" and "next year's going to be our year, for real this time"

Give me the full reboot. It would go a long way in giving me hope for this club again.
How do you start the conversation with  
Mike from Ohio : 10/13/2021 9:09 pm : link
“You don’t have authority to change the coaching staff? If Judge wants two more Nate Ebners, your job is to go find them.”

In that scenario, by default your GM now works for your coach. If that is what you want, the you just have Judge pick him. But then your GM’s success follow your coach. If Judge struggles again next year, do you fire both?

If DG goes you retain Judge and staff and you let the new GM make the call after he on the job and can evaluate it fully. Then Judge is his guy, or gone and this GM and coach are joined at the hip.
RE: How do you start the conversation with  
Sean : 10/13/2021 9:15 pm : link
In comment 15412817 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
“You don’t have authority to change the coaching staff? If Judge wants two more Nate Ebners, your job is to go find them.”

In that scenario, by default your GM now works for your coach. If that is what you want, the you just have Judge pick him. But then your GM’s success follow your coach. If Judge struggles again next year, do you fire both?

If DG goes you retain Judge and staff and you let the new GM make the call after he on the job and can evaluate it fully. Then Judge is his guy, or gone and this GM and coach are joined at the hip.

I do not think any new GM would be fired with Judge, he would out last Judge.

Judge was given a 5 year contract when hired with a 69 year old GM. He was hired with the intention to outlast Gettleman.
So you let Judge pick the GM  
Mike from Ohio : 10/13/2021 9:39 pm : link
Then fire Judge and let the GM he hired hire a different coach?

Year one the GM is acquiring talent and signing contracts to win now and fit Judge’s system. In his second year he has to start over. Is his first year just a mulligan?
Because he hasn't proven to be  
Gmen88 : 10/13/2021 9:44 pm : link
a good coach.
RE: So you let Judge pick the GM  
Go Terps : 10/13/2021 9:46 pm : link
In comment 15412850 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Then fire Judge and let the GM he hired hire a different coach?

Year one the GM is acquiring talent and signing contracts to win now and fit Judge’s system. In his second year he has to start over. Is his first year just a mulligan?


This is the issue. Firing Gettleman and keeping Judge propagates the cycle, and lines Judge up as the next patsy for Mara to fire. You still potentially will have a GM and coach with diverging agendas and timelines.

If you want to keep Judge, the move is then to either elevate Abrams or O'Brien with the knowledge that they sink or swim together.

I like Judge, but he's in major danger of being collateral damage in the Mara disaster machine.
I would think a new GM  
djm : 10/13/2021 9:55 pm : link
Could come in and take a wait and see approach with judge while doing whatever he wants everywhere else. Let’s say Mara still has a hard on for judge or even to be fair say he’s luke warm, fine, the GM could still give judge one more year under his watch. Maybe he’d want to? If judge fails in year 3 or gives said GM enough evidence to warrant a change, you let him bring in his guy.

It ahould be up to the new GM  
nygiants16 : 10/13/2021 9:56 pm : link
if he wants to keep Judge he should be allowed, if he wants to go in a different direction he should be allowed..
RE: RE: So you let Judge pick the GM  
Mike from Ohio : 10/13/2021 9:59 pm : link
In comment 15412858 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15412850 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


Then fire Judge and let the GM he hired hire a different coach?

Year one the GM is acquiring talent and signing contracts to win now and fit Judge’s system. In his second year he has to start over. Is his first year just a mulligan?



This is the issue. Firing Gettleman and keeping Judge propagates the cycle, and lines Judge up as the next patsy for Mara to fire. You still potentially will have a GM and coach with diverging agendas and timelines.

If you want to keep Judge, the move is then to either elevate Abrams or O'Brien with the knowledge that they sink or swim together.

I like Judge, but he's in major danger of being collateral damage in the Mara disaster machine.


Outside of his press conferences, what do you like about Judge? Granted it is still early, but this year he has seemed unfocused during games and his teams seem unprepared and undisciplined.

I was high on Judge coming into this season and know it is still early in his second year. But man this team does not come across as one that is well coached.
RE: RE: So you let Judge pick the GM  
Sean : 10/13/2021 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15412858 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15412850 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


Then fire Judge and let the GM he hired hire a different coach?

Year one the GM is acquiring talent and signing contracts to win now and fit Judge’s system. In his second year he has to start over. Is his first year just a mulligan?



This is the issue. Firing Gettleman and keeping Judge propagates the cycle, and lines Judge up as the next patsy for Mara to fire. You still potentially will have a GM and coach with diverging agendas and timelines.

If you want to keep Judge, the move is then to either elevate Abrams or O'Brien with the knowledge that they sink or swim together.

I like Judge, but he's in major danger of being collateral damage in the Mara disaster machine.

This issue is, Mara is not looking to flush through GM’s often. The next GM hired I’d imagine will be a younger outside guy with the intent of being in the role for 10+ years.

George Young: 1979-1997
Ernie Accorsi: 1998-2006
Jerry Reese: 2007-2017
Dave Gettleman: 2018-current

This will be a long term hire. The GM’s job is to supplement the coach. Obviously in the interview process the candidates are asked what they think about Judge or prospective head coaches. But, if a new GM works with Judge for an additional year and he bombs, I don’t see a huge issue. The new GM then just is part of the decision process for next coach.
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