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Cut Solder soon?

CMicks3110 : 10/13/2021 8:47 pm
Was fiddling with OvertheCap and according to their calculator tool, if the Giants cut Solder now, we take a higher cap hit this year, but we gain $4+ million in cap space next year, which we'll need. Seems like if we trade one of engram/peppers we could coincide that move with cutting solder, and get us some breathing room for the next off-season.

To me, if we do end up trading peppers/engram or anyone that can shave money off of this year's cap, we need to cut Solder immediately.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/13/2021 8:48 pm : link
Just cut him tomorrow. He sucks.
If we cut him tomorrow  
CMicks3110 : 10/13/2021 8:49 pm : link
the dead money puts us over the cap, it would have to coincide with a trade of another asset.
I’d cut solder today  
Tuckrule : 10/13/2021 8:49 pm : link
But I’d like to hang onto peppers. Much better player than he get credits for on this site. He’s a valuable box style safety who can play 2 high and he’s great vs the run and an excellent tackler
Worst liability on the field  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 10/13/2021 8:54 pm : link
.
If the result of cutting him is a higher cap hit  
BlackLight : 10/13/2021 8:57 pm : link
then it makes no sense. It would only theoretically make sense if we got something for him, even if it was added cap room to sign somebody else at another position.
Just bench him or put him on the practice squad or anything  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 10/13/2021 8:57 pm : link
.
Watch him get picked up by another team  
Jalapeno : 10/13/2021 8:59 pm : link
and have a stellar rest of his career.

It would make sense actually.
RE: Watch him get picked up by another team  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/13/2021 9:08 pm : link
In comment 15412801 Jalapeno said:
Quote:
and have a stellar rest of his career.

It would make sense actually.


Really? Why?
He should be the swing tackle  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/13/2021 9:09 pm : link
For the rest of the season. You cut him in the offseason.
Solder may be the worst of a mediocre O line  
GeofromNJ : 10/13/2021 9:10 pm : link
but I don't think management or the coaching staff has given up on this season just yet. I think DJ plays Sunday and any tanking decision will be made after week 7.
RE: RE: Watch him get picked up by another team  
Jalapeno : 10/13/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15412816 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 15412801 Jalapeno said:


Quote:


and have a stellar rest of his career.

It would make sense actually.



Really? Why?


Because it would fit in with the rest of our bad luck haha
RE: Just bench him or put him on the practice squad or anything  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 10/13/2021 9:36 pm : link
In comment 15412799 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
.


Solder isn't eligible for the practice squad.
He sucks, but with AT hurt, we need him.  
BigBlueNH : 10/13/2021 9:37 pm : link
We haved no clue how anyone - outside of the 3 OTs who have played - will perform. Let's hope AT is back this week and, if they still play Solder at RT, I will be sick.

And, as was pointed out, we don't have the cap room to cut him now.
And yet this  
joeinpa : 10/13/2021 9:41 pm : link
O line has gone two games in a row without giving up a sack

There s not much of a run game, but really considering the make-shift nature of this unit, they have been better than expected.
Worst signing in Giants History  
90.Cal : 10/13/2021 9:50 pm : link
Worst OL contract in NFL History.
Cool let's cut him and thin out line depth even more  
BH28 : 10/13/2021 9:59 pm : link
It's not like there have been zero injuries to the line so far.
"He did some good things"  
larryflower37 : 10/13/2021 10:03 pm : link
Joe Judge.
 
christian : 10/13/2021 11:24 pm : link
When Solder re-did his deal a few things occurred:

1) His 2021 salary dropped to 3M, but is fully guaranteed
2) 2022 was voided so there is no salary, but 4M of amortized bonus remains as dead money

In short cutting Solder saves no money. If he’s cut, the remainder of his salary accelerates, and still counts 3M against the cap.

The 4M next year will be there no matter what.

The only way to save money is if he’s traded. The acquiring team would be responsible for the pro-rated portion of his 3M salary, and the Giants would save that against this year’s cap.
RE: …  
Bill in UT : 10/14/2021 12:34 am : link
In comment 15412931 christian said:
Quote:

The only way to save money is if he’s traded. The acquiring team would be responsible for the pro-rated portion of his 3M salary, and the Giants would save that against this year’s cap.


Maybe we can trade him to the Giants. They're the only team dumb enough to take him
He has $4 million guaranteed for 2022, so yeah  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/14/2021 12:47 am : link
...he's not getting cut.
Don't post about the cap if you don't understand it  
WillieYoung : 10/14/2021 6:08 am : link
all NFL salaries become guaranteed once you make the 53 main roster. No cap savings from cutting him
I understand the cap  
CMicks3110 : 10/14/2021 6:30 am : link
Solder has no guaranteed money for 2022. He has a $4.5 million cap hit as a result of his prorated bonus. If you absorb the dead money hit this year (by cutting him), you clear out that $4.5 next year. My point is, if this is a list season, we should do everything we can to gain as much flexibility next year. Cowboys did this with Jaylon Smith.
RE: I understand the cap  
joeinpa : 10/14/2021 7:13 am : link
In comment 15412983 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
Solder has no guaranteed money for 2022. He has a $4.5 million cap hit as a result of his prorated bonus. If you absorb the dead money hit this year (by cutting him), you clear out that $4.5 next year. My point is, if this is a list season, we should do everything we can to gain as much flexibility next year. Cowboys did this with Jaylon Smith.


You might label it a lost season, it I can guarantee you that is not the approach in that locker room
RE: I understand the cap  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/14/2021 7:44 am : link
In comment 15412983 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
Solder has no guaranteed money for 2022. He has a $4.5 million cap hit as a result of his prorated bonus. If you absorb the dead money hit this year (by cutting him), you clear out that $4.5 next year. My point is, if this is a list season, we should do everything we can to gain as much flexibility next year. Cowboys did this with Jaylon Smith.

Except that unused cap room rolls over, so whatever you would do to clear enough room right now to release Solder, you could do anyway (if you were so inclined), and roll over the $4M to cover Solder's 2022 dead money. You'd end up in the same cap position.

There is absolutely no cap benefit to cutting Solder now. There may be roster benefits, but not salary cap.
Trade back  
Biteymax22 : 10/14/2021 9:03 am : link
Acquire picks, evaluate talent correctly and build your team that way. The Solder situation is a perfect example of why teams should be built through the draft and not free agency.
What?  
JonC : 10/14/2021 9:06 am : link
There's no cap benefit to cutting him "soon", and while he's struggling at times, the Giants need a third tackle to get through 2021. C'mon.
Bitey  
fkap : 10/14/2021 9:13 am : link
I agree the smart move was to trade back and accumulate picks. However, when a team is crap, you have to use both FA and the draft to build. The trick is picking the right players.

Solder wasn't a bad signing because of the cost. He was a bad signing because he's talent deficient. He'd be a bad signing even at a reasonable cost.
RE: Bitey  
Biteymax22 : 10/14/2021 9:24 am : link
In comment 15413074 fkap said:
Quote:
I agree the smart move was to trade back and accumulate picks. However, when a team is crap, you have to use both FA and the draft to build. The trick is picking the right players.

Solder wasn't a bad signing because of the cost. He was a bad signing because he's talent deficient. He'd be a bad signing even at a reasonable cost.


Big free agent signings should be used on those players that "put you over the top" once your base was built through the draft. Solder was signed 100% to try and help build that base, its something we've done over and over again and it always bites us in the ass.

If we drafted properly, and someone like Flowers actually worked out, we wouldn't have been stuck over paying for a bad tackle out of desperation. Solder isn't the only case of this either.
RE:  
Toth029 : 10/14/2021 9:26 am : link
In comment 15412888 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Joe Judge.


Needs context, but he isn't flat out wrong. They didn't allow sacks. I feel like Sale and Co. have done a remarkable job on the line this year.
My suggestion was  
CMicks3110 : 10/14/2021 9:40 am : link
If we decide the season is lost. Cut him and trade someone like Engram, allowing the accelerated bonus to hit this year rather than next. There is no unused cap space that rolls over otherwise. This is what the cowboys did with Jaylon Smith.
RE: RE: Bitey  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/14/2021 9:41 am : link
In comment 15413088 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15413074 fkap said:


Quote:


I agree the smart move was to trade back and accumulate picks. However, when a team is crap, you have to use both FA and the draft to build. The trick is picking the right players.

Solder wasn't a bad signing because of the cost. He was a bad signing because he's talent deficient. He'd be a bad signing even at a reasonable cost.



Big free agent signings should be used on those players that "put you over the top" once your base was built through the draft. Solder was signed 100% to try and help build that base, its something we've done over and over again and it always bites us in the ass.

If we drafted properly, and someone like Flowers actually worked out, we wouldn't have been stuck over paying for a bad tackle out of desperation. Solder isn't the only case of this either.

Solder has been a bust because of his play on the field, and because it was very clearly a reactionary move after Norwell signed with Jacksonville. DG had to make some sort of splash OL signing after his "hawg mawllies" declaration, and Solder was next on the list after Norwell that year.

But if Flowers had worked out, we'd have ended up giving him the same contract, more or less, that we gave Solder. That's always the part that people tend to miss when they talk about signing FAs to cover up for draft busts. The draft picks that hit also get paid well, and there's no assurance that they're going to represent a discount.

The difference is that the guys that do hit don't usually get to free agency. The players that do shake free in FA either come with warts, grey hairs, or arthritis. Sometimes all of the above.
RE: My suggestion was  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/14/2021 9:42 am : link
In comment 15413117 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
If we decide the season is lost. Cut him and trade someone like Engram, allowing the accelerated bonus to hit this year rather than next. There is no unused cap space that rolls over otherwise. This is what the cowboys did with Jaylon Smith.

If that's the plan, then just trade Engram, keep Solder, and that unused cap room freed up by trading Engram will roll over to cover Solder's dead money next year.

There is no cap benefit to cutting Solder this year no matter how you want to look at it.
RE: RE: Bitey  
AcidTest : 10/14/2021 9:59 am : link
In comment 15413088 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15413074 fkap said:


Quote:


I agree the smart move was to trade back and accumulate picks. However, when a team is crap, you have to use both FA and the draft to build. The trick is picking the right players.

Solder wasn't a bad signing because of the cost. He was a bad signing because he's talent deficient. He'd be a bad signing even at a reasonable cost.



Big free agent signings should be used on those players that "put you over the top" once your base was built through the draft. Solder was signed 100% to try and help build that base, its something we've done over and over again and it always bites us in the ass.

If we drafted properly, and someone like Flowers actually worked out, we wouldn't have been stuck over paying for a bad tackle out of desperation. Solder isn't the only case of this either.


+1.
RE: RE: RE: Bitey  
Biteymax22 : 10/14/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15413118 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15413088 Biteymax22 said:


Quote:


In comment 15413074 fkap said:


Quote:


I agree the smart move was to trade back and accumulate picks. However, when a team is crap, you have to use both FA and the draft to build. The trick is picking the right players.

Solder wasn't a bad signing because of the cost. He was a bad signing because he's talent deficient. He'd be a bad signing even at a reasonable cost.



Big free agent signings should be used on those players that "put you over the top" once your base was built through the draft. Solder was signed 100% to try and help build that base, its something we've done over and over again and it always bites us in the ass.

If we drafted properly, and someone like Flowers actually worked out, we wouldn't have been stuck over paying for a bad tackle out of desperation. Solder isn't the only case of this either.


Solder has been a bust because of his play on the field, and because it was very clearly a reactionary move after Norwell signed with Jacksonville. DG had to make some sort of splash OL signing after his "hawg mawllies" declaration, and Solder was next on the list after Norwell that year.

But if Flowers had worked out, we'd have ended up giving him the same contract, more or less, that we gave Solder. That's always the part that people tend to miss when they talk about signing FAs to cover up for draft busts. The draft picks that hit also get paid well, and there's no assurance that they're going to represent a discount.

The difference is that the guys that do hit don't usually get to free agency. The players that do shake free in FA either come with warts, grey hairs, or arthritis. Sometimes all of the above.


The major difference with using the money to retain your own guy vs sign street free agents is you know exactly what you're getting, how it performs in your building and typically its at a slight discount.

To your point, street free agents come with worts and a premium price tag, which doesn't work as a strategy to build your base.

As you mentioned that they would have used the money to sign Norwell instead, would that have really made us a better team? There were still holes all over the roster that needed to be covered. We won't be good until we actually start drafting well enough to build a team.
RE: RE: My suggestion was  
section125 : 10/14/2021 10:08 am : link
In comment 15413124 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15413117 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


If we decide the season is lost. Cut him and trade someone like Engram, allowing the accelerated bonus to hit this year rather than next. There is no unused cap space that rolls over otherwise. This is what the cowboys did with Jaylon Smith.


If that's the plan, then just trade Engram, keep Solder, and that unused cap room freed up by trading Engram will roll over to cover Solder's dead money next year.

There is no cap benefit to cutting Solder this year no matter how you want to look at it.


Exactly.
 
christian : 10/14/2021 10:10 am : link
I don’t believe there is a way to accelerate the amortized portion of the bonus in 2022. They would have needed to cut him pre-June.

The Giants also only have 2.5M in cap space in 2021, so they couldn’t even absorb an acceleration.
Just imagine if we drafted Tunsil  
kdog77 : 10/14/2021 11:23 am : link
instead of Eli Apple.
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