DL,LB and secondary are underperforming this year. Put this all together and you have the disaster that is the Giant defense in 2021.
Sprinkle in Graham's defensive game plans for another ingredient of bad defense.
Those seem to be absent... 112 snaps, which I assume are the running downs, through 5 games. Talkin Giants already said they are averaging almost a yard more on running downs. And there it is!
With so many playing below both capability and expectations, and consistent poor play at all levels of the defense, this rests solely on the coaches. I hilited the other day that only Graham and Jerome Henderson had any prior pro coaching experience before coming to the Giants. The staff is too inexperienced and Graham’s schemes are terrible.
“Honestly, if that’s how you rate football players or edge groups, then that’s one thing. But we do more than rush the quarterback. We affect the game in multiple ways. We try set the edge, play the run and do different things. We drop, we help in different ways more than just sacks and there’s different ways to affect the game,” Carter said. “Yes, of course, sacks are the pretty thing that people like. It’s the popular statistic, but we’ve got to – like you said, we’ve got to get pressure. That’s a part of the game. But I feel like as long as the guys you named, Azeez, me, X, Quincy, and even our practice (squad) players, we have the ability. We’ve got the guys and we know what we can do, so we’ve just got go out there and like I said, it all comes back to execution.”
Is that not the biggest bunch of bullshit you've ever heard?? This is the NY Giants. They are actually losing their rich tradition of defense by being such a joke for so long now.
Are performing poorly in comparison to last season. I didn't need an article to point that out. What I would appreciate learning is what is different about the scheme from last season to this? What are they being asked to do differently from last year. How can it be that Lawrence, Bradberry and Ryan all are having down years comparatively. It just doesn't make sense.
Well written article with all the stats and analytics to back it up.
Unfortunately, the problem with the Defense is basically everybody.
There really is no one that is performing at a quality level, at a consistent level, or at the level expected of them (expected by way of their salary or 2020 season).
Can an entire roster of Defensive players get worse at the same time?
Martinez was not only the best player on the field, he was the undisputed leader. When he went down, nobody filled the leadership gap.
High priced players with no rudder, a terrible defensive coaching scheme, poor discipline and a loser's attitude. This is the 2021 Giant defense.
I think Dexter Lawrence is trying to fill that role.
From the double-team chart it looks like Dex is getting plenty of attention this season by Offensive Lineman so can't tell if his performance is really down or no one else is taking advantage of less attention.
half of them dont even know how to tackle. Look at that play in the NO game where the backup QB carried 5 Giant defenders 5 yards for that TD. Very poor tackling . Thats the first thing they need to clean up. Also, Ive never seen som many opposing receivers wide open on obvious passing downs. Inexcusable
is that a lot of the players that are not playing up to their contracts (williams, bradberry, ryan) are all on 3 year deals and will be off the cap sooner rather than later.
Martinez was not only the best player on the field, he was the undisputed leader. When he went down, nobody filled the leadership gap.
High priced players with no rudder, a terrible defensive coaching scheme, poor discipline and a loser's attitude. This is the 2021 Giant defense.
I think Dexter Lawrence is trying to fill that role.
From the double-team chart it looks like Dex is getting plenty of attention this season by Offensive Lineman so can't tell if his performance is really down or no one else is taking advantage of less attention.
Judging by the charts posted on a couple other threads, both Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence are soaking up a lot of double-teams, but our edge guys (primarily some combo of Lorenzo Carter, Ximines, and Ojulari) aren't striking home.
Those seem to be absent... 112 snaps, which I assume are the running downs, through 5 games. Talkin Giants already said they are averaging almost a yard more on running downs. And there it is!
Talkin' Giants made a note on their recent video of the team run defense averages 6 yards when Shelton is on the field, and when it's Austin Johnson, it is cut down to 3.7. Not fully sure on if that's completely accurate but I can believe it judging by watching the games every week. Shelton is just not good anymore.
And on top of that, the play by the Safeties in the box and the absence of Martinez is a much bigger hindrance than the loss of Tomlinson.
AT the end of the day, the big pay guys have to step up. I *really* liked Martinez in terms of leadership ability. We've also not prioritized drafts in this position.
The secondary is still something I can't figure out. I was genuinely convinced we would be better than last year AND I was convinced Graham, having another year would be whipping up some new wizardry on defense. What a let down - I hope they take stock and figure it out.
The outside backers aren't winning their one on one matchups. It's frustrating but that's what the stats show when guys like Leo and Dexter are clogging all the double teams - which is what they're supposed to do. But other guys, notably the outside backers, and most importantly, Tae Crowder isn't tackling well either.
what is Graham doing differently than last year that is causing them to be less effective?
He basically can be doing the exact same thing as last year. Other teams actually watch film and change stuff up. Graham appears to be a one trick pony.
Part of that can be related to the early game lack of success of the offense. The Dallas and Denver game both were examples of the defense doing its part for a little while early until eventually collapsing against an opponent who made few errors (Denver) or few errors late (Dallas).
Another thing to remember is that you can never draw conclusions from small sample sizes. It's not too early for football discussion, but let's not pretend that later games in nasty weather, combined with continued coaching and improved performance might not make the end of year numbers look closer to last year's.
I still say that the biggest problem on defense is the lack of quality edge rushers. Brown, Carter, Ojulari, and Ximines are not producing. Ximines has one quarterback hit and no sacks in 24 games and more than 300 snaps. We are 30th in the league in pass rush win rate.
I also wouldn’t expect much from E. Smith this year. He is very raw, comes from a lower level of competition, is a rookie who didn’t play last year, and has missed all of camp and the season. He’s for next year at the earliest.
Our OLBs also do not set the edge against the run. The article correctly notes that Dallas ran to the edges for that reason, and to get away from Williams and Lawrence.
This doesn’t excuse the bad play of Bradberry, Jackson, or the rest of the secondary, but in a passing league you have to get to the QB. We are not.
he's been doing this for a while. However, I don't think the Giants absolutely had to pay Williams. He makes it sound as if they had no choice. Williams is a fine player, but he needs better pieces around him to shine. IMO we miss Tomlinson.
A poster yesterday mentioned that for roughly the same money we could have re-signed DT and gotten Judon and Reddick. If so, paying Williams was a mistake I feel.
Austin Johnson has been just fine replacing Tomlinson...
At a fraction of the cost, with Johnson making $3 million on a one-year deal while Tomlinson signed a two-year, $21 million deal with $15.9 million guaranteed.
Johnson vs. Tomlinson
Games Played: 5 vs 5
Snaps Played: 190 vs 194
Tackles: 24 vs 11
Sacks: 3 vs 1
Pressures: 6 vs 7
Run Stops: 14 vs 7
PFF Grade: 62.3 vs 77.1
* This information was lifted from an article written on Big Blue View
half of them dont even know how to tackle. Look at that play in the NO game where the backup QB carried 5 Giant defenders 5 yards for that TD. Very poor tackling . Thats the first thing they need to clean up. Also, Ive never seen som many opposing receivers wide open on obvious passing downs. Inexcusable
Agree 100%. They don’t hit or try to hit anyone. Very soft team Not what we were told from the start by the HC. Where’s the blue collar effort?
I still say that the biggest problem on defense is the lack of quality edge rushers. Brown, Carter, Ojulari, and Ximines are not producing. Ximines has one quarterback hit and no sacks in 24 games and more than 300 snaps. We are 30th in the league in pass rush win rate.
I also wouldn’t expect much from E. Smith this year. He is very raw, comes from a lower level of competition, is a rookie who didn’t play last year, and has missed all of camp and the season. He’s for next year at the earliest.
Our OLBs also do not set the edge against the run. The article correctly notes that Dallas ran to the edges for that reason, and to get away from Williams and Lawrence.
This doesn’t excuse the bad play of Bradberry, Jackson, or the rest of the secondary, but in a passing league you have to get to the QB. We are not.
Agree with these comments.
Even in the one victory this year, it was being said on NFLN yesterday that Giants had only (I think) 2 pressures, no hits on the QB and no sacks. Or something very close to this.
Do we have any? LW was one last year, but not this year.
How about black holes? A good defense isn't starting any of the guys we currently have out there in the second level of the D. They miss Blake badly, but as a unit it was poor even with him.
Worth noting - despite EDGE being an obvious hole for the team going into 2021, the Giants made no significant FA moves to address it. And looking at ESPN's pass rush win rate leaders, 4 of the top 10 were free agents and switched teams this past offseason. Bad job by the FO. Link - ( New Window )
it's about impact plays or big plays in big moments, both offensively and defensively. That's how you win. You get that stop in the 2nd quarter to keep the game close. You get that sack in the 4th quarter that swings the pendulum. Carter or anyone else can talk all they want about the details of their job description, but the biggest one of all is big plays. Giants haven't gotten any other than maybe the Saints game.
Not enough bad asses. The guys that should be, Williams/Lawrence and most of the secondary, have disappointed.
accurate observation that this is a “soft defense”. The lack of high school tackling schools is abhorrent. Judge talked about wanting “football players”, i don’t see too many on important defensive downs. This must be rectified however it gets done or all the other suggestions offered are irrelevant.
Captain Martinez’s loss is an important issue.but the “toughness” wasn’t there when he was still playing this season. How do you teach players receiving millions to tackle? That’s graham’s problem. Maybe he didn’t learn that at Yale. But the defense simply needs remedial football and no change in scheme can rectify the lack of basics and will power on view every week.
This is long enough and lucky for you friends i physically can’t keyboard longer.
Sprinkle in Graham's defensive game plans for another ingredient of bad defense.
Is that not the biggest bunch of bullshit you've ever heard?? This is the NY Giants. They are actually losing their rich tradition of defense by being such a joke for so long now.
Arguably the best secondary in our history on paper....
Disgusting.
At least, I hope the Giants offense no longer plans on low scoring defensive games.
There really is no one that is performing at a quality level, at a consistent level, or at the level expected of them (expected by way of their salary or 2020 season).
Can an entire roster of Defensive players get worse at the same time?
High priced players with no rudder, a terrible defensive coaching scheme, poor discipline and a loser's attitude. This is the 2021 Giant defense.
Perhaps nothing but after the WFT game Judge went over schemes on the trip back home with Graham. Maybe he thinks there are some coaching issue.
High priced players with no rudder, a terrible defensive coaching scheme, poor discipline and a loser's attitude. This is the 2021 Giant defense.
I think Dexter Lawrence is trying to fill that role.
From the double-team chart it looks like Dex is getting plenty of attention this season by Offensive Lineman so can't tell if his performance is really down or no one else is taking advantage of less attention.
Quote:
Martinez was not only the best player on the field, he was the undisputed leader. When he went down, nobody filled the leadership gap.
High priced players with no rudder, a terrible defensive coaching scheme, poor discipline and a loser's attitude. This is the 2021 Giant defense.
I think Dexter Lawrence is trying to fill that role.
From the double-team chart it looks like Dex is getting plenty of attention this season by Offensive Lineman so can't tell if his performance is really down or no one else is taking advantage of less attention.
Judging by the charts posted on a couple other threads, both Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence are soaking up a lot of double-teams, but our edge guys (primarily some combo of Lorenzo Carter, Ximines, and Ojulari) aren't striking home.
Talkin' Giants made a note on their recent video of the team run defense averages 6 yards when Shelton is on the field, and when it's Austin Johnson, it is cut down to 3.7. Not fully sure on if that's completely accurate but I can believe it judging by watching the games every week. Shelton is just not good anymore.
And on top of that, the play by the Safeties in the box and the absence of Martinez is a much bigger hindrance than the loss of Tomlinson.
The secondary is still something I can't figure out. I was genuinely convinced we would be better than last year AND I was convinced Graham, having another year would be whipping up some new wizardry on defense. What a let down - I hope they take stock and figure it out.
The outside backers aren't winning their one on one matchups. It's frustrating but that's what the stats show when guys like Leo and Dexter are clogging all the double teams - which is what they're supposed to do. But other guys, notably the outside backers, and most importantly, Tae Crowder isn't tackling well either.
He basically can be doing the exact same thing as last year. Other teams actually watch film and change stuff up. Graham appears to be a one trick pony.
Another thing to remember is that you can never draw conclusions from small sample sizes. It's not too early for football discussion, but let's not pretend that later games in nasty weather, combined with continued coaching and improved performance might not make the end of year numbers look closer to last year's.
Thanks for sharing the article.
I still say that the biggest problem on defense is the lack of quality edge rushers. Brown, Carter, Ojulari, and Ximines are not producing. Ximines has one quarterback hit and no sacks in 24 games and more than 300 snaps. We are 30th in the league in pass rush win rate.
I also wouldn’t expect much from E. Smith this year. He is very raw, comes from a lower level of competition, is a rookie who didn’t play last year, and has missed all of camp and the season. He’s for next year at the earliest.
Our OLBs also do not set the edge against the run. The article correctly notes that Dallas ran to the edges for that reason, and to get away from Williams and Lawrence.
This doesn’t excuse the bad play of Bradberry, Jackson, or the rest of the secondary, but in a passing league you have to get to the QB. We are not.
A poster yesterday mentioned that for roughly the same money we could have re-signed DT and gotten Judon and Reddick. If so, paying Williams was a mistake I feel.
Johnson vs. Tomlinson
Games Played: 5 vs 5
Snaps Played: 190 vs 194
Tackles: 24 vs 11
Sacks: 3 vs 1
Pressures: 6 vs 7
Run Stops: 14 vs 7
PFF Grade: 62.3 vs 77.1
* This information was lifted from an article written on Big Blue View
Agree 100%. They don’t hit or try to hit anyone. Very soft team Not what we were told from the start by the HC. Where’s the blue collar effort?
I still say that the biggest problem on defense is the lack of quality edge rushers. Brown, Carter, Ojulari, and Ximines are not producing. Ximines has one quarterback hit and no sacks in 24 games and more than 300 snaps. We are 30th in the league in pass rush win rate.
I also wouldn’t expect much from E. Smith this year. He is very raw, comes from a lower level of competition, is a rookie who didn’t play last year, and has missed all of camp and the season. He’s for next year at the earliest.
Our OLBs also do not set the edge against the run. The article correctly notes that Dallas ran to the edges for that reason, and to get away from Williams and Lawrence.
This doesn’t excuse the bad play of Bradberry, Jackson, or the rest of the secondary, but in a passing league you have to get to the QB. We are not.
Agree with these comments.
Even in the one victory this year, it was being said on NFLN yesterday that Giants had only (I think) 2 pressures, no hits on the QB and no sacks. Or something very close to this.
Maybe top five.
How about black holes? A good defense isn't starting any of the guys we currently have out there in the second level of the D. They miss Blake badly, but as a unit it was poor even with him.
Worth noting - despite EDGE being an obvious hole for the team going into 2021, the Giants made no significant FA moves to address it. And looking at ESPN's pass rush win rate leaders, 4 of the top 10 were free agents and switched teams this past offseason. Bad job by the FO.
Link - ( New Window )
Not enough bad asses. The guys that should be, Williams/Lawrence and most of the secondary, have disappointed.
Captain Martinez’s loss is an important issue.but the “toughness” wasn’t there when he was still playing this season. How do you teach players receiving millions to tackle? That’s graham’s problem. Maybe he didn’t learn that at Yale. But the defense simply needs remedial football and no change in scheme can rectify the lack of basics and will power on view every week.
This is long enough and lucky for you friends i physically can’t keyboard longer.
Thanks for this thread
and he sucks at identifying difference makers on the edge.
what else did i miss...
RE: Williams and Lawrence, before Dallas game there were only 3 DL ahead of them in stats.
Like someone else said - how do you talk about the defensive lien w/o talking about Shelton.
Defense has clearly struggled this year but the article is a bit off in spots