Is this talented player worth the headache to you? Full disclosure, I am a Knick fan. That being said, I am not a fan of his hubris since he joined the league. He just rubs me the wrong way. I think he is a lousy teammate. Regardless of your opinion on his latest distraction, whether you believe he is right or wrong, is he someone that you want on your team?
This thread is not meant to be political. Not asking if you support his position or not. Just asking if you want this guy on your team.
Hey Dan, just for fun... because the Nets have Harden and KD, if they could trade Irving for Ben Simmons... would you make that deal?
Personally, I would.
As far as Kyrie specifically, when Kyrie left the team last year it was clear he was not a reliable on the floor leader and the team did what they had to do then to protect themselves adding Harden. I'm fairly confident Kyrie's leave was what motivated them to do the Harden deal (along with Dinwiddie getting hurt). Had those 2 things not happened i'm not sure they would have done a Harden deal, or at least not done it that quickly.
With Harden, and everything else Marks has been able to do to surround KD, I'm now indifferent to Kyrie. From day 1 on the court Harden was clearly the better player in terms of running the floor (which is why Kyrie graciously moved off the ball). If Kyrie wants to be a Net great. If not see ya and thanks for helping bring KD here.
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an unbelievable player (maybe the best ball handler in the league). Push comes to shove, KD/Harden may be frustrated but they know they are far better with him than without him. If I were a Nets fan I'd absolutely want Kyrie on my team vs. trading him on the cheap. That being said, I suspect his "plan" involves hoping for a change in the mandates within the next month-2 and that he will be with the Nets one way or another at some point this season.
Hey Dan, just for fun... because the Nets have Harden and KD, if they could trade Irving for Ben Simmons... would you make that deal?
Personally, I would.
Given the Nets specific situation, yes I would. Simmons offensive issues aka shooting/lack of scoring in the clutch are less of an issue given the Nets roster. If you asked me which player I'd prefer in general it's Irving and it's not particularly close.
Thats all that matters and thank your lucky stars you got Harden
Part of me, OK, a lot of me wants to see what kind of numbers the big 3 can put up together over a full season. The 128 pts per 100 possessions they scored in an admittedly limited time together last year was unprecedented. I'd love to see how close they can get to that.
Given the Nets specific situation, yes I would. Simmons offensive issues aka shooting/lack of scoring in the clutch are less of an issue given the Nets roster. If you asked me which player I'd prefer in general it's Irving and it's not particularly close.
I read somewhere (The Ringer?) that Philly offered Simmons for Kyrie, but the Nets (KD) nixed it. I wonder if they'd be more open to it now. I agree that Simmons offensive issues are a lot less glaring on this Nets team, and his defense would be a big plus.
KD and Harden are likely to be the primary ball handlers in close out situations. Simmons wouldn't even necessarily need to be on the floor though obviously you'd want his defensive presence. Plenty of other choices to surround the big 2 between Patty Mills, Joe Harris, Blake Griffin, LMA, Brown, Thomas, if the concern is hitting free throws late in games.
All that said my primary concern is the durability factor. I think Kyrie has ended up hurt in like 4 of the last 5 playoffs right?
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an unbelievable player (maybe the best ball handler in the league). Push comes to shove, KD/Harden may be frustrated but they know they are far better with him than without him. If I were a Nets fan I'd absolutely want Kyrie on my team vs. trading him on the cheap. That being said, I suspect his "plan" involves hoping for a change in the mandates within the next month-2 and that he will be with the Nets one way or another at some point this season.
Hey Dan, just for fun... because the Nets have Harden and KD, if they could trade Irving for Ben Simmons... would you make that deal?
Personally, I would.
Philly can't make that deal for these reasons:
1. Philly could have a vaccine mandate like NYC and the Sixers would be in the same spot the Nets are in now (Kyrie can't play in home games)
2. Kyrie could retire, which means the Sixers gave away Simmons for nothing. The Sixers are a contender, so they can't just give away an above average player (despite Ben's issues offensively, he'd be fine on a team like Brooklyn), for nothing.
3. Kyrie's presence in the locker room, if he plays could be just as negative for Embiid as Simmons.
That's why you've heard all these Simmons trade possibilities with 9 different teams, and Brooklyn wasn't one of the teams.
The actual trade Brooklyn can make is Kyrie + a Nets bench player with the Rockets for John Wall. Here's why:
1. Rockets get out of Wall's contract, which is one of the worst in the NBA.
2. Rockets get $30+ million in cap relief if Kyrie retires, which gives them an opportunity to rebuild.
3. Rockets aren't contending regardless of whether they have Kyrie or not, so it doesn't matter to them if he retires. In fact, they probably would approve of it because they get the cap space.
4. Nets get a legit third star for Kyrie, at least when Wall is healthy. He's not as good as Kyrie but he's still above average. Nets would still be favorites in the East with KD-Harden-Wall
5. Wall's bad contract doesn't mean anything to the Nets because they are all in for a championship, and I believe they can get out of it after this season if it doesn't work out.
6. Getting rid of Kyrie could convince Harden to stay. I don't think Harden is approving Kyrie's madness anymore
The actual trade Brooklyn can make is Kyrie + a Nets bench player with the Rockets for John Wall. Here's why:
1. Rockets get out of Wall's contract, which is one of the worst in the NBA.
2. Rockets get $30+ million in cap relief if Kyrie retires, which gives them an opportunity to rebuild.
3. Rockets aren't contending regardless of whether they have Kyrie or not, so it doesn't matter to them if he retires. In fact, they probably would approve of it because they get the cap space.
4. Nets get a legit third star for Kyrie, at least when Wall is healthy. He's not as good as Kyrie but he's still above average. Nets would still be favorites in the East with KD-Harden-Wall
5. Wall's bad contract doesn't mean anything to the Nets because they are all in for a championship, and I believe they can get out of it after this season if it doesn't work out.
6. Getting rid of Kyrie could convince Harden to stay. I don't think Harden is approving Kyrie's madness anymore
No way, Wall is just not a good player any longer, and I'm not convinced he ever really was. A 40% shooting G who doesn't play D? No thanks.
KD and Harden are likely to be the primary ball handlers in close out situations. Simmons wouldn't even necessarily need to be on the floor though obviously you'd want his defensive presence. Plenty of other choices to surround the big 2 between Patty Mills, Joe Harris, Blake Griffin, LMA, Brown, Thomas, if the concern is hitting free throws late in games.
All that said my primary concern is the durability factor. I think Kyrie has ended up hurt in like 4 of the last 5 playoffs right?
I totally get why a lot of people feel like Simmons would be a better fit for the Nets because of his defense. You figure that the path to the NBA Finals will mean potential matchups against Giannis and LeBron, which makes Simmons a really valuable piece since he's about as good as you can hope for defensively against those two.
But IMO, it's the 3-headed monster of KD/Harden/Kyrie that makes the Nets offense unlike anything else in league history. Curry/Klay being off-ball savants made for a prettier offense with KD, but Klay isn't elite with the ball in his hands. Having 3 guys who can create for themselves like the Nets have is unheard of and makes them so hard to stop.
I think the Nets have a better chance in a playoff series with Kyrie than Simmons. Simmons' offense can once again be exposed, especially since his best asset as an offensive player (creating off the dribble) will be limited with Harden on the court. Even if the Nets D will never be good with Kyrie, it can be good enough that their historic offense overcomes it imo.
I have so many mixed thoughts about Kyrie as a person, but he's a hell of a player.
You have your scoring in Harden and KD, you have a shootet in Harris..
This team is going to severely lack wing defense, they are going to be a slow team, they need to add some wing deoth that can shoot and play defense..
Im trading kyrie for depth and team speed, their bench is old and slow
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The actual trade Brooklyn can make is Kyrie + a Nets bench player with the Rockets for John Wall. Here's why:
1. Rockets get out of Wall's contract, which is one of the worst in the NBA.
2. Rockets get $30+ million in cap relief if Kyrie retires, which gives them an opportunity to rebuild.
3. Rockets aren't contending regardless of whether they have Kyrie or not, so it doesn't matter to them if he retires. In fact, they probably would approve of it because they get the cap space.
4. Nets get a legit third star for Kyrie, at least when Wall is healthy. He's not as good as Kyrie but he's still above average. Nets would still be favorites in the East with KD-Harden-Wall
5. Wall's bad contract doesn't mean anything to the Nets because they are all in for a championship, and I believe they can get out of it after this season if it doesn't work out.
6. Getting rid of Kyrie could convince Harden to stay. I don't think Harden is approving Kyrie's madness anymore
No way, Wall is just not a good player any longer, and I'm not convinced he ever really was. A 40% shooting G who doesn't play D? No thanks.
Wall is the best player they can get for Kyrie at this point. I guess OKC is an option too, but who could the Thunder trade (or would they trade) in return that helps the Nets? I guess Derrick Favors, but the Nets already have Blake Griffin and Aldridge back. Once again, Philly can't make the Kyrie-Ben deal work because of a possible vaccine mandate in Philly. They've pretty much followed NYC with every legal move in respect to COVID.
No contender can risk taking Kyrie and trading a substantial player because they'd be giving the Nets something for nothing if Kyrie retires/refuses to play. So the Nets can only deal with a non-contender/rebuilding team who either has cap space (Thunder, Wolves, etc.) or a bad contract (Rockets)
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In comment 15413245 dpinzow said:
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The actual trade Brooklyn can make is Kyrie + a Nets bench player with the Rockets for John Wall. Here's why:
1. Rockets get out of Wall's contract, which is one of the worst in the NBA.
2. Rockets get $30+ million in cap relief if Kyrie retires, which gives them an opportunity to rebuild.
3. Rockets aren't contending regardless of whether they have Kyrie or not, so it doesn't matter to them if he retires. In fact, they probably would approve of it because they get the cap space.
4. Nets get a legit third star for Kyrie, at least when Wall is healthy. He's not as good as Kyrie but he's still above average. Nets would still be favorites in the East with KD-Harden-Wall
5. Wall's bad contract doesn't mean anything to the Nets because they are all in for a championship, and I believe they can get out of it after this season if it doesn't work out.
6. Getting rid of Kyrie could convince Harden to stay. I don't think Harden is approving Kyrie's madness anymore
No way, Wall is just not a good player any longer, and I'm not convinced he ever really was. A 40% shooting G who doesn't play D? No thanks.
Wall is the best player they can get for Kyrie at this point. I guess OKC is an option too, but who could the Thunder trade (or would they trade) in return that helps the Nets? I guess Derrick Favors, but the Nets already have Blake Griffin and Aldridge back. Once again, Philly can't make the Kyrie-Ben deal work because of a possible vaccine mandate in Philly. They've pretty much followed NYC with every legal move in respect to COVID.
No contender can risk taking Kyrie and trading a substantial player because they'd be giving the Nets something for nothing if Kyrie retires/refuses to play. So the Nets can only deal with a non-contender/rebuilding team who either has cap space (Thunder, Wolves, etc.) or a bad contract (Rockets)
Your not looking for best player, your looking for best fit with KD and Harden, Wall would be a horrible fit
The problem is Kyrie is almost impossible to trade right now, so Wall could be the best they could do
Adding Kyrie to Harden/Durant makes the Nets a historically good offense that no team can defend. To me, it's worth waiting on that upside instead of some forced trade where you get guys who may not eve much better than what they already have on their bench.
Kyrie missing a chunk of the season could be a positive outcome for the Nets since less wear and tear would mean he'd be more likely to actually finish the season for a change.
Houston
OKC
Minnesota
Sacramento
No contender is trading for Kyrie because of the threat of retirement. Best case scenario for the Nets would be if Karl-Anthony Towns demanded a trade out of Minnesota (rebuilding team) and the Nets made that deal
Wow you will welcome him back if he gets vaccinated? Sorry but you are part of the problem. No one should be forced to take the vaccine. Good for him standing his ground. As a Nets fan, I am glad he is standing up for what he believes in. This mandate is ridiculous and shame of the Nets for not playing him for that. If everyone is vaccinated(protected), then why does he need it? Its only about CONTROL!
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I definitely want him on the team, but at some point, he becomes more of a distraction than he's worth. If he's willing to be vaccinated, I'd welcome him back with open arms
Wow you will welcome him back if he gets vaccinated? Sorry but you are part of the problem. No one should be forced to take the vaccine. Good for him standing his ground. As a Nets fan, I am glad he is standing up for what he believes in. This mandate is ridiculous and shame of the Nets for not playing him for that. If everyone is vaccinated(protected), then why does he need it? Its only about CONTROL!
This thread is not political. Let’s not get another one of these threads deleted.
Isn't it time for you to get your booster shot?
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on continual display.
Isn't it time for you to get your booster shot?
get lost man, not the thread for this
The actual trade Brooklyn can make is Kyrie + a Nets bench player with the Rockets for John Wall. Here's why:
1. Rockets get out of Wall's contract, which is one of the worst in the NBA.
2. Rockets get $30+ million in cap relief if Kyrie retires, which gives them an opportunity to rebuild.
3. Rockets aren't contending regardless of whether they have Kyrie or not, so it doesn't matter to them if he retires. In fact, they probably would approve of it because they get the cap space.
4. Nets get a legit third star for Kyrie, at least when Wall is healthy. He's not as good as Kyrie but he's still above average. Nets would still be favorites in the East with KD-Harden-Wall
5. Wall's bad contract doesn't mean anything to the Nets because they are all in for a championship, and I believe they can get out of it after this season if it doesn't work out.
6. Getting rid of Kyrie could convince Harden to stay. I don't think Harden is approving Kyrie's madness anymore
No way, Wall is just not a good player any longer, and I'm not convinced he ever really was. A 40% shooting G who doesn't play D? No thanks.
Wall is the best player they can get for Kyrie at this point. I guess OKC is an option too, but who could the Thunder trade (or would they trade) in return that helps the Nets? I guess Derrick Favors, but the Nets already have Blake Griffin and Aldridge back. Once again, Philly can't make the Kyrie-Ben deal work because of a possible vaccine mandate in Philly. They've pretty much followed NYC with every legal move in respect to COVID.
No contender can risk taking Kyrie and trading a substantial player because they'd be giving the Nets something for nothing if Kyrie retires/refuses to play. So the Nets can only deal with a non-contender/rebuilding team who either has cap space (Thunder, Wolves, etc.) or a bad contract (Rockets)
First of all, if I'm the Nets and taking on Wall's AWFUL contract, why the fuck am I giving up an additional player? I'll take one of the many 1st round picks HOU has. Sorry, Wall not only doesn't move the needle, I think he makes the Nets worse even without Kyrie. A ball dominant PG who can't shoot and won't play defense? Sure, he'd have to play off the ball, but exactly what does he bring to the table? A guy other teams don't have to guard. I'll stick with Patty Mills, thanks. At least he can shoot 3's.
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I definitely want him on the team, but at some point, he becomes more of a distraction than he's worth. If he's willing to be vaccinated, I'd welcome him back with open arms
Wow you will welcome him back if he gets vaccinated? Sorry but you are part of the problem. No one should be forced to take the vaccine. Good for him standing his ground. As a Nets fan, I am glad he is standing up for what he believes in. This mandate is ridiculous and shame of the Nets for not playing him for that. If everyone is vaccinated(protected), then why does he need it? Its only about CONTROL!
Grow the fuck up.
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In comment 15413236 Section331 said:
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I definitely want him on the team, but at some point, he becomes more of a distraction than he's worth. If he's willing to be vaccinated, I'd welcome him back with open arms
Wow you will welcome him back if he gets vaccinated? Sorry but you are part of the problem. No one should be forced to take the vaccine. Good for him standing his ground. As a Nets fan, I am glad he is standing up for what he believes in. This mandate is ridiculous and shame of the Nets for not playing him for that. If everyone is vaccinated(protected), then why does he need it? Its only about CONTROL!
Grow the fuck up.
Good come back to the big guy hiding behind the computer.
Good come back to the big guy hiding behind the computer.
Say the guys who's never posted on anything, but does here to be an a-hole. BTW, I'm a tough guy on the other side of a computer too.
I wish he would shut up and play but that is not him. I actually don't hate his off-season stuff, the problem is he brings it to the season and is a big disruption.
nevermind the vaccination stuff, he takes mid-season vacations, and will just leave when he doesn't feel like playing.
But he will say he loves basketball and will not retire.
Whoever he plays for needs to understand it kinda like Rodman use to do but for a lot less money.
I think the nets want him and know how talented he is and are trying to work it all out.
I would be surprised if they tried to trade him unless Dame is available for Kyrie plus.
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In comment 15413336 Oldschoolgiant said:
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In comment 15413236 Section331 said:
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I definitely want him on the team, but at some point, he becomes more of a distraction than he's worth. If he's willing to be vaccinated, I'd welcome him back with open arms
Wow you will welcome him back if he gets vaccinated? Sorry but you are part of the problem. No one should be forced to take the vaccine. Good for him standing his ground. As a Nets fan, I am glad he is standing up for what he believes in. This mandate is ridiculous and shame of the Nets for not playing him for that. If everyone is vaccinated(protected), then why does he need it? Its only about CONTROL!
Grow the fuck up.
Good come back to the big guy hiding behind the computer.
says the guy hiding behind a computer
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Good come back to the big guy hiding behind the computer.
Say the guys who's never posted on anything, but does here to be an a-hole. BTW, I'm a tough guy on the other side of a computer too.
Can you both shut up and argue vaccinations on Facebook and so we do not lose another basketball discussion
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Good come back to the big guy hiding behind the computer.
Say the guys who's never posted on anything, but does here to be an a-hole. BTW, I'm a tough guy on the other side of a computer too.
Suuuure you are! Now that's funny!
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In comment 15413394 Oldschoolgiant said:
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Good come back to the big guy hiding behind the computer.
Say the guys who's never posted on anything, but does here to be an a-hole. BTW, I'm a tough guy on the other side of a computer too.
Suuuure you are! Now that's funny!
Now who's the tough guy? Go away, little man, the adults are talking hoops.
It's a NYC ordinance. And HIV isn't COVID, Magic wasn't going to breathe on someone and get them sick. Can we keep the political BS off this thread?
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and Irving can't because he won't take a shot? Something is not right here..
It's a NYC ordinance. And HIV isn't COVID, Magic wasn't going to breathe on someone and get them sick. Can we keep the political BS off this thread?
Yea, your right basketball players never get cut or bleed.
Get lost with your BS..
1. get KD/Harden to the postseason healthy.
2. have enough pieces around them that fit when they get there.
that's really it. the biggest benefit to Kyrie is that re #1 they can look at it more like "get KD + 1 of Harden/Irving". I'm not sure simmons is good enough to be the #2 if Harden were to get hurt. But I do think he's a really good piece around them and has been a lot less likely to get hurt than Kyrie has been.
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In comment 15413426 RobCrossRiver56 said:
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and Irving can't because he won't take a shot? Something is not right here..
It's a NYC ordinance. And HIV isn't COVID, Magic wasn't going to breathe on someone and get them sick. Can we keep the political BS off this thread?
Yea, your right basketball players never get cut or bleed.
Get lost with your BS..
BINGO!!
Yea, your right basketball players never get cut or bleed.
Get lost with your BS..
The only way to contract HIV through a cut is if someone infected jerks off in it. Learn some science.
BINGO!!
Stupid is as stupid gets.
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Yea, your right basketball players never get cut or bleed.
Get lost with your BS..
The only way to contract HIV through a cut is if someone infected jerks off in it. Learn some science.
Hey Mr. Scientist... you can still get Covid with the vaccine! Dumbass!
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Yea, your right basketball players never get cut or bleed.
Get lost with your BS..
The only way to contract HIV through a cut is if someone infected jerks off in it. Learn some science.
You post is as stupid as it gets, I mean holy shit you are dumb. It's not your fault you ate lead paint chips as a kid.
Now go get your shine box and bow to the NYC ordinace as you know nothing else.
You post is as stupid as it gets, I mean holy shit you are dumb. It's not your fault you ate lead paint chips as a kid.
Now go get your shine box and bow to the NYC ordinace as you know nothing else.
No shinebox for me, I wouldn't want to take away your livelihood.
I honestly don't believe he wants to play anywhere near 82 games and this is a perfect excuse.
I have a friend of a friend who works with the Nets and they are convinced he's not getting the vaccine under any circumstances.
Trading him for John Wall? Is that a joke? Wall is completely washed up.
I can't see the Simmons trade ( who's also unvaccinated btw). If you want to win a title how can you trust that in the playoffs?
I think they wait it out and hope he caves or mandates change. They don't need him for another 6 months- thats a long time.
I have a friend of a friend who works with the Nets and they are convinced he's not getting the vaccine under any circumstances.
Trading him for John Wall? Is that a joke? Wall is completely washed up.
I can't see the Simmons trade ( who's also unvaccinated btw). If you want to win a title how can you trust that in the playoffs?
I think they wait it out and hope he caves or mandates change. They don't need him for another 6 months- thats a long time.
I agree, I think they do wait, they're not going to get anyone remotely as good, and they have enough to win the east without him. It could get interesting if he's not back as the deadline approaches.
They probably come to some arrangement with daily testing.
I wouldn't trade him for Simmons who simply can't be on the floor in key spots.
I do think he will relent after a while. Wiggins at GS relented after his religious exemption request was denied. I think once Kyrie starts losing enough game checks (yes, just the home games), he'll change his tune.