I want to preface this by signing that I was a big fan of the signing. In theory, he's exactly the type of alpha WR that Jones and the team needs. Unfortunately, his career has been plagued by injuries and between the hamstring and now the knee the injury bug is again rearing its ugly head. Between the emergence of Toney, the restructuring of Shepard I wonder if they would have signed Judon or kept dalvin if they had a gimmie.
That said, many of us here expressed concerns about his injury history. But he was the best FA WR available, and we needed a WR, so I get it, but Corey Davis is looking pretty good right now, and with a struggling rookie QB.
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Parsons, I am annoyed about it.
He isn't very reliable as an ILB.
So that begs the question if they did choose Parsons... would he be usdd differently like how Quinn uses him now?
I think he's best suited to playing on the line end, 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, he can drop into coverage, play some MIKE, he's multiple.
Look for a silver lining...
I will say, the drops are the most disappointing thing about KG. I expected better. His catch % is pretty bad, much lower than BBI whipping boy Engram.
No. You take the trade with the Bears to get the extra picks, including their #1 next season.
As far as Golladay is concerned, I agree the Giants don't have "buyer's remorse," because as you note they wanted him for a long time. But that means as you also said that they were essentially bidding against themselves.
I would not have signed Golladay, Jackson, Booker, or Rudolph. I'm not sure about Williams. He's getting paid more than he's worth, but the deal is short, and I still say that he and Lawrence would be more effective if we had decent OLBs who could rush and set the edge.
The question is what is your philosophy about how to build a team. The Giants too often believe that signing expensive FAs is a critical component to success. I disagree, unless a team really is one or two players away from being a legitimate SB contender. I would otherwise build the team through the draft. The Giants of course have also compounded their poor FA decisions with equally bad drafting, which is why we are the worst team by record since 2017.
Agreed, but the team is so bad that fans need something and someone to be excited about, and he has demonstrated a lot of the electrifying talent he showed in college. I didn't want Toney because of his injury history, one year of production, and off the field incidents. But people calling him a bust before he even played was equally ridiculous. I can say that I am happy with his performance while also acknowledging that he is not ready to be inducted into the HOF.
No, I do not trust this regime. I assume that one way or another DG is gone after this season, and that another dreadful year finally prompts the Maras to hire a GM from outside the organization.
But even if the current regime remains, I would still have made the trade with the Bears. There wasn't anybody at #11 who would have prevented me from doing so.
Really good when he's healthy.
Not healthy enough of the time.
Not sure you can be disappointed when the guy gives you EXACTLY what he's been historically.
Agreed with the last sentence. I can't imagine the same regime drafting a QB this year and not sticking with Jones. A new regime and all bets are off, even in what appears to be a weak QB class.
Depends on where the picks fall and who is available obviously, but I would expect the Giants to go edge and OL with their two 1sts this year.
Funny how that works.....
We need to see something that demonstrates football identity, more players winning their one on one battles, key guys staying healthy and showing signs of breaking through the ice, more tangible football results even if they're struggling to win games. It's been a long time waiting, even someone as football patient as I typically am is frustrated with the product on gamedays.
I'm looking for something that warrants faith restored.
He has a solid contract with $40m guaranteed which is far less than a bunch of other WR's that got paid before him. Health is why I didn't want him and yeah, here we are. That said it sounds like a 1-2 week thing and we stink anyway so it kinda doesn't matter for 2021.
I think the potential with him and Toney is undeniable. Really hope we get a good glimpse of that this year.
This is how I see it. Shep is probably gone next year.
Toney, slayton, KG is a really nice WR corp. Pair that group with barkley and a NEW TE or Two and the offense has the weapons.
I think focus this offseason is fix the OL. Defense needs an edge in the worst way. My guess is edge and OL heavy draft
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is out of control around here.
There has to be some reason for wanting to watch this disaster. Toney doesn't move the needle enough for me to carve out time but if it does for others.....
i disagree. Toney looks pretty good when you consider the time he missed. He is very good with the ball in his hands. thats undeniable. i think its nice to have a young weapon to be excited about.
it allows for us to let shep go and save some $$ and use it elsewhere
the offense sucked by design weeks 1-3
his career hasn't been plagued by injuries, stop running with that narrative. he's a wr they all get dinged up.
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In comment 15414245 JonC said:
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Parsons, I am annoyed about it.
He isn't very reliable as an ILB.
So that begs the question if they did choose Parsons... would he be usdd differently like how Quinn uses him now?
I think he's best suited to playing on the line end, 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, he can drop into coverage, play some MIKE, he's multiple.
parsons is a DL in the NFL. he is LOST in coverage. he was a flawed prospect, lets not act like he is ray lewis. its early but parsons isnt really "multiple" at least not good at multiple spots. i dont think he is fluid enough in coverage to play linebacker unless used as a rush edge in a 34
This is how I see it. Shep is probably gone next year.
Toney, slayton, KG is a really nice WR corp. Pair that group with barkley and a NEW TE or Two and the offense has the weapons.
I think focus this offseason is fix the OL. Defense needs an edge in the worst way. My guess is edge and OL heavy draft
We continue to overrate Slayton. He had a promising rookie year, but has not progressed at all. Disappears for large portions of games, and drops too many. Even as a #3 WR, we need to do better.
the offense sucked by design weeks 1-3
his career hasn't been plagued by injuries, stop running with that narrative. he's a wr they all get dinged up.
He missed 17 games in 4 years. That is not "dinged up".
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This is how I see it. Shep is probably gone next year.
Toney, slayton, KG is a really nice WR corp. Pair that group with barkley and a NEW TE or Two and the offense has the weapons.
I think focus this offseason is fix the OL. Defense needs an edge in the worst way. My guess is edge and OL heavy draft
We continue to overrate Slayton. He had a promising rookie year, but has not progressed at all. Disappears for large portions of games, and drops too many. Even as a #3 WR, we need to do better.
im not overrating him at all...he is a #3 WR but really the 4th option in the offense...i think you can do worse as a #4 option in your offense and a #3 WR
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In comment 15414291 Toth029 said:
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In comment 15414245 JonC said:
Quote:
Parsons, I am annoyed about it.
He isn't very reliable as an ILB.
So that begs the question if they did choose Parsons... would he be usdd differently like how Quinn uses him now?
I think he's best suited to playing on the line end, 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, he can drop into coverage, play some MIKE, he's multiple.
parsons is a DL in the NFL. he is LOST in coverage. he was a flawed prospect, lets not act like he is ray lewis. its early but parsons isnt really "multiple" at least not good at multiple spots. i dont think he is fluid enough in coverage to play linebacker unless used as a rush edge in a 34
He's not Ray Lewis, but I don't know what game(s) you watched. The talent is there, and if he plays more on the edge the better.
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In comment 15414303 JonC said:
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In comment 15414291 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 15414245 JonC said:
Quote:
Parsons, I am annoyed about it.
He isn't very reliable as an ILB.
So that begs the question if they did choose Parsons... would he be usdd differently like how Quinn uses him now?
I think he's best suited to playing on the line end, 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, he can drop into coverage, play some MIKE, he's multiple.
parsons is a DL in the NFL. he is LOST in coverage. he was a flawed prospect, lets not act like he is ray lewis. its early but parsons isnt really "multiple" at least not good at multiple spots. i dont think he is fluid enough in coverage to play linebacker unless used as a rush edge in a 34
He's not Ray Lewis, but I don't know what game(s) you watched. The talent is there, and if he plays more on the edge the better.
he is a quick and looks solid but imo he is strictly a pass rusher. he is okay at the point of attack but LOST in coverage. my point was, i dont think he is as multiple as you think. that being said, yes, we could have used him BUT with shep always hurt, slayton average at best and knowing KG could miss time, give me Toney and the extra picks including a first rounder this year.
That does seem obvious now, but my point is, the overreactions from one day to the next. 2 weeks ago, Golliday was a fantastic get, Gettleman got the rug taken out from under him when Philly swooped in and took Smith.
Clearly, the Adoree Jackson signing isn't going great, but I didn't mind the tradeoff for Tomlinson. Would we have been that much better off?
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Parsons, I am annoyed about it.
That does seem obvious now, but my point is, the overreactions from one day to the next. 2 weeks ago, Golliday was a fantastic get, Gettleman got the rug taken out from under him when Philly swooped in and took Smith.
Clearly, the Adoree Jackson signing isn't going great, but I didn't mind the tradeoff for Tomlinson. Would we have been that much better off?
also, something to remember, EVERYONE felt good about giants defense. many would say we need an edge but thtas really it. that unit was VERY good last year and with adding jackson, most of us felt very good about the unit. I am sure the front office did and hence the leaning away from defense in round 1. personally, i felt they need to go offense. i never expected defense to be this bad. it barely makes sense
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is out of control around here.
There has to be some reason for wanting to watch this disaster. Toney doesn't move the needle enough for me to carve out time but if it does for others.....
Not a criticism, but watching the Giants has been a family gathering since 56, we ve evolve to now l. Where it s me, my sons, and grandkids
Never thought of it as carving out time to watch them. Certainly it s more fun when they win, but watching the Giants are a big part of our entertainment
I know there s some who feel like you, but it s amazing how many others, like us, keep watching investing time and energy, it s kind of what helps make being a Giants fan special
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Parsons, I am annoyed about it.
That does seem obvious now, but my point is, the overreactions from one day to the next. 2 weeks ago, Golliday was a fantastic get, Gettleman got the rug taken out from under him when Philly swooped in and took Smith.
Clearly, the Adoree Jackson signing isn't going great, but I didn't mind the tradeoff for Tomlinson. Would we have been that much better off?
If I were GM, I would've spent the $ on Reddick or Ngakoue and directly try to address a serious weakness. A weakness that is killing this team on a weekly basis. Their edge choices leave a ton to be desired, and while Ojulari looks somewhat promising, I still think they need to do better picking Edge talent.
I really don't think a team was out there bidding against the Giants for Adoree, certainly not at the level paid to secure his services.
Keep throwing resources at CB, and very little at Edge.
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In comment 15414245 JonC said:
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Parsons, I am annoyed about it.
That does seem obvious now, but my point is, the overreactions from one day to the next. 2 weeks ago, Golliday was a fantastic get, Gettleman got the rug taken out from under him when Philly swooped in and took Smith.
Clearly, the Adoree Jackson signing isn't going great, but I didn't mind the tradeoff for Tomlinson. Would we have been that much better off?
If I were GM, I would've spent the $ on Reddick or Ngakoue and directly try to address a serious weakness. A weakness that is killing this team on a weekly basis. Their edge choices leave a ton to be desired, and while Ojulari looks somewhat promising, I still think they need to do better picking Edge talent.
I really don't think a team was out there bidding against the Giants for Adoree, certainly not at the level paid to secure his services.
Keep throwing resources at CB, and very little at Edge.
i agree on edge talent evals however, yiadom was a MAJOR weak link in our defense last year. otherwise, we were a VERY good unit. I think the jackson signing was really nice. hindsight is perfect vision but at the time, i think most liked it and felt it was good to land a #2 CB.
They had an opportunity to get better at Edge and didn't bother, it irks me.
This post should be pinned at the top of BBI for the remainder of DG's tenure, however long that may be.
Even though Jones will probably not pan out, he still as easily the 2nd best QB in that draft. The problem is we just developed talent and cohesiveness around him that can only be matched by the Jets.
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as DG tends to build a football roster not unlike a fan would; reactionary, expensive UFAs with known warts be damned, draft by best available at one position, hey it's fantasy football!
This post should be pinned at the top of BBI for the remainder of DG's tenure, however long that may be.
lol.
Even though Jones will probably not pan out, he still as easily the 2nd best QB in that draft. The problem is we just developed talent and cohesiveness around him that can only be matched by the Jets.
Yep, it it were 1978 instead of 2018, the pick would have been fine. I can understand passing on someone like Allen, but Nelson or Chubb should have been the pick. Or a trade down.
The route scheme hasn’t helped either.
That said, I’m waiting for JJ to get rolled up on the sidelines in this inordinately injury prone season.
That does seem obvious now, but my point is, the overreactions from one day to the next. 2 weeks ago, Golliday was a fantastic get, Gettleman got the rug taken out from under him when Philly swooped in and took Smith.
Clearly, the Adoree Jackson signing isn't going great, but I didn't mind the tradeoff for Tomlinson. Would we have been that much better off?
Golladay was a great get for the DG apologists. Many here expressed concerns about his injury history, and thought that DG overpaid.
And don't get me started on Adoree Jackson. He was left on the trash heap by a SB contending team. Who does that for a good player? Yet DG though it was OK to guarantee him $25M. Then we had some posters touting him as a top 5 CB. On what planet, one with only 5 CB's?
Much of this isn't revisionist history, it's real history. DG has been simply brutal, and has set this franchise back years. Yet we still have posters defending him and blaming Judge. Judge deserves some blame, don't get me wrong, but DG is the architect.
Look objectively at the people making the requests for personnel and making the decisions.
Joe Judge, a 38 year old Head Coach who had never been a head coach at any level
Pat Graham, a defensive coordinator with two years of experience running a whole defense, who had been fired once already after his first year running a defense
Dave Gettleman, a GM under fire for 0 winning seasons during his Giants tenure, and who was nearly fired last year.
Judge didn't negotiate the contracts. I didn't have an issue with signing KG, I had an issue with DG negotiating against himself. Who else was bidding on KG?
But even then, the KG contract is defensible. Jackson's is not. Again, I was fine with bringing him in. He had a very good rookie year, but really struggled after that. Maybe he gets back to his original form, it's worth a shot, but not at 3/$39. That is ridiculous, and that is all on DG.
I simply don't understand the DG apologists. I mean, who falls in love with a GM? He signs someone, and half of BBI is like "DG had a great signing!". And then when that guy sucks, it's all "well Judge chose him too!"
Pick a fucking lane.
From a value perspective, he’s being paid elite WR money and he’s never been close to an elite caliber player.
I'm not giving Judge a break, YOU are giving DG the break. Yes, Judge has say in FA signings, but who has the final word? That is Gettleman's fucking job, yet you give him a pass for it. Look, fire Judge at the end of the year, I would understand it, but fire him and keep DG? That is fucking lunacy.
You said yourself that the drafts pre-Judge were bad, but now the drafts are Judge's fault? What is the common denominator? Gettleman. He gets paid to call the shots, and he gets graded as such.
Again, I don't have an issue signing KG. I do with making him the 7th highest paid WR by AAV. Is that Judge's fault too? Jackson was worth a flyer, not $13M/yr and $25M guaranteed. That is on DG, IT IS ALL ON DG. He has shown zero understanding of how to manage a cap and adequately build a roster.
Maybe some, but many of us weren't.
First of all no teams want to cut a good CB.. this is 2021.. CBs are about as important as any defenders.. $10M is not bad amount of money for any good CB.. If they thought he was any good they won't mind paying him 10..
Second, if he didn't fit their system but someone else's system then that team would have gladly traded for a good ftting CB who is only getting paid 10M. No team did that..
Finally, titans figuring that no one thinks he is worth 10M they drop him.. then we bid against some unknown or ourselves and pay 13M (39M total, 46M with incentive) for him.. when just a week prior we could have had him for $10M plus a seventh (which has to be worth less than 3M per year)..
Its a fact that they tried to trade him and no other team wanted him at 10M.. then he becomes a FA and the giants spend $13M on him.. none of this makes sense.. you don't get waived and end up with a substansially better contract..
If he was good then we should've traded for him.. heck we could've just traded a backup player or a 7th.. and we couldn've saved 3M plus future salary cap.. if he wasn't good enough for $10M plus a 7th then we shouldn't have paid him $39M..
The pre signing talk is that the signing was going to come in at $12-14mm. Boom, it actually comes in at $18mm.
And the Giants had to structure the contract to backload the cap hits.
First of all no teams want to cut a good CB.. this is 2021.. CBs are about as important as any defenders.. $10M is not bad amount of money for any good CB.. If they thought he was any good they won't mind paying him 10..
Second, if he didn't fit their system but someone else's system then that team would have gladly traded for a good ftting CB who is only getting paid 10M. No team did that..
Finally, titans figuring that no one thinks he is worth 10M they drop him.. then we bid against some unknown or ourselves and pay 13M (39M total, 46M with incentive) for him.. when just a week prior we could have had him for $10M plus a seventh (which has to be worth less than 3M per year)..
Its a fact that they tried to trade him and no other team wanted him at 10M.. then he becomes a FA and the giants spend $13M on him.. none of this makes sense.. you don't get waived and end up with a substansially better contract..
If he was good then we should've traded for him.. heck we could've just traded a backup player or a 7th.. and we couldn've saved 3M plus future salary cap.. if he wasn't good enough for $10M plus a 7th then we shouldn't have paid him $39M..
Good post. Some interesting ideas about better way we could have gone about acquiring Jackson.
Gettleman is an impulsive shopper in free agency it seems...