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Are there signs of a modern offense?

Joey in VA : 10/15/2021 1:50 pm
I posted this on another thread and it got me wondering if I'm being far too optimistic or are we slowly seeing a shift away from the stale offense we've been saddled with?

Modern offense in the NFL doesn't play by the pre 2011 CBA rules anymore. It's a matchup league where you try anything to get your guys in space and or with the ball. The protection in place for QBs and offensive players have turned the NFL on its ear. It's easier than ever to run outside with the removal of cutting down pulling OL and crack back blocks. The field is more wide open than ever and teams that adapt are succeeding. Drafting Toney and actually using him that way the past two weeks is either a fluke or a glimpse of what the younger offensive assistants we brought in this off season are driving us towards. Some of the concepts I've seen in the past two weeks give me legitimate pause that we are slowly evolving into an actual modern offense.

It all begins with Jones being able to succeed running, which despite the 80 yard stumble and the noggin crunch last week, has added a key modern element to our offense. We've seen rollout isolation plays on 3rd downs that stress the defense and let Jones either run or throw for the first down. They aren't consistent but I'm seeing them more often. Toneys middle screen on 3rd and 18 is a play that doesn't work in 2005 but with relaxed rules against impeding and hitting ball carriers, it's now completely feasible. RPO, designed QB runs and jet sweeps and motion are everywhere and it's becoming increasingly window dressing with similar formations running multiple plays from those sets. McVay, Shanahan and Brian Dabol have implemented these with incredible success and it's where we need to get to start competing.

My question is, does it feel like the younger former LSU assistant, among others, are getting their input added slowly as we evolve or is this just a gimmick here and there? I don't think it's a coincidence that we have a lot of Judge connections on offense and that this process to convert is starting to reveal itself. I'm pretty down on this team but there have been glimpses that we may finally be evolving on offense. Toney is a perfect example of a modern NFL weapon, one I thought the stodgy Jason Garrett wouldn't know how to utilize but it appears he's being utilized the way more innovative coaches use their best matchup players. I'm desperate for any hope, bear with any silly optimism please.
Schemes do not compensate  
JohnF : 10/15/2021 2:25 pm : link
for bad talent. Talented players are necessary to win in Sports, don't fool yourself. With the right players, we could run a successful single wing offense.

You could have Sid Gilman, Mike Holmgren, Mouse Davis and Bill Walsh as offensive coaches on this team, and they would still lose with this level of talent. Until that issue is fixed, the results will be the same.
John  
Joey in VA : 10/15/2021 2:37 pm : link
That's not the point, we stink and need better players. My query is whether we are finally transitioning to a scheme that takes full advantage of the new rules, specifically not being allowed to attack pulling blockers, enabling more edge runs and middle screens and isolation plays that get your skill guys the ball quicker. We have to change everything, I thought I was seeing some semblance of it.
RE: Schemes do not compensate  
KDavies : 10/15/2021 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15414658 JohnF said:
Quote:
for bad talent. Talented players are necessary to win in Sports, don't fool yourself. With the right players, we could run a successful single wing offense.

You could have Sid Gilman, Mike Holmgren, Mouse Davis and Bill Walsh as offensive coaches on this team, and they would still lose with this level of talent. Until that issue is fixed, the results will be the same.


Not saying the Giants have the best talent in the world. However, they should have won the Redskins game, and could have won the Atl game. Coaching cost them the Redskins game. Any of those coaches could have the Giants at 3-2.
Good post and questions...  
bw in dc : 10/15/2021 3:14 pm : link
I think so much of what you can do as an offense boils down to offensive line play. If you have that solved - or mostly solved - more options seem to fall into place.

I have no doubt we have all of the non-QB skill players to execute a modern offense. Big target WR in KG and two WRs who can make plays between the numbers in Shep and Toney. Two WRs who get get vertical in Ross and DS. And, if his mind is right, we actually have one of the most athletic TEs in the game in EE. Plus a RB who is probably a better receiver than he is a running back in SB.

And I am probably one of the few who thinks Garrett has the experience and mind to scheme the offense up to look and produce like a modern offense.

But I just don't think he and Judge are there yet to trust this OL to consistently deliver. With so many injuries and so much ordinary talent, I can't say that I blame them. Until that major problem is solved - and I won't get into Jones's issues (which are obviously just as critical to make it all work) - I think we will continue to see the glimpses and not the full spectrum of what we all want and expect...
RE: Schemes do not compensate  
RAIN : 10/15/2021 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15414658 JohnF said:
Quote:
for bad talent. Talented players are necessary to win in Sports, don't fool yourself. With the right players, we could run a successful single wing offense.

You could have Sid Gilman, Mike Holmgren, Mouse Davis and Bill Walsh as offensive coaches on this team, and they would still lose with this level of talent. Until that issue is fixed, the results will be the same.


You need to get guys in position with the ball, to do something. If you have a Yard after catch threat, and they are blended into the same ol offense, you don't maximize the asset. To some degree you are correct, but San Fran, LA, and to a lesser extent Buffalo are getting the most of there talent.
Which rule  
Angus : 10/15/2021 5:53 pm : link
removed the cutting down pulling OL? I have seen players not try to cut OL and I was lamenting it.
RE: Which rule  
Joey in VA : 10/15/2021 6:12 pm : link
In comment 15414901 Angus said:
Quote:
removed the cutting down pulling OL? I have seen players not try to cut OL and I was lamenting it.
Diving below the waist to cut pulling blockers was removed this off season I believe. Dallas took advantage of it all day on us, I'm waiting to see Garrett and Sale get it incorporated. I don't know the exact wording but essentially you can't just dive bomb an OL to take out a lead blocker.
RE: RE: Schemes do not compensate  
giantstock : 10/17/2021 2:06 am : link
In comment 15414788 RAIN said:
Quote:
In comment 15414658 JohnF said:


Quote:


for bad talent. Talented players are necessary to win in Sports, don't fool yourself. With the right players, we could run a successful single wing offense.

You could have Sid Gilman, Mike Holmgren, Mouse Davis and Bill Walsh as offensive coaches on this team, and they would still lose with this level of talent. Until that issue is fixed, the results will be the same.



You need to get guys in position with the ball, to do something. If you have a Yard after catch threat, and they are blended into the same ol offense, you don't maximize the asset. To some degree you are correct, but San Fran, LA, and to a lesser extent Buffalo are getting the most of there talent.


That's because San Fran, LA and Buffalo have a combination of better OLINS and more healthy this they are more able to get guys in position with the ball, to do something.
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