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I have read some posters say that we a good young foundation

joe48 : 10/16/2021 3:12 pm
To build off with like 3 or 4 players. For discussion purposes let’s say they are Thomas, Jones and KT. To me if these players are a good foundation then when I look at a team like Dallas who has so many quality players maybe 12 to 15 we are so far behind playoff teams.
Our defense appears to need a total reset and influx of talent. The NY Giants are a rudderless franchise without direction. Add to that we have a HC learning on the job and it is no wonder people are frustrated.
Spending $200 M on free agents with no cap money left for next year after 4 years of this GM I hope we bring in a new GM and let him hire an experienced HC.
A basis to move forward is on the roster  
AnnapolisMike : 10/16/2021 3:34 pm : link
On offense...you need to upgrade the OL and TE. You have Barkley in the fold for one more year...hope he can play.

On defense it's complicated. You are probably set on the DL but need LB's and better play from S and CB. Ryan, Williams, Bradberry and Jackson are going to be here next year.

A decent OL and pass rush would make this team a whole lot better very quickly.



I agree with DJ, Toney, and Thomas....  
No Where Man : 10/16/2021 3:44 pm : link
I think some of the following played can become part of the core but have been hurt, misued, played out of their natural position, or not coached up enough:

Saquon
Peart
Gates
Kaden Smith
Lawrence
Azeez
Cam Brown
Coughlin
Elerson Smith
Aaron Robinson
Austin Johnson
Robert Johnson
Wilson
Slayton
McKinney
So now Toney is a made guy  
fanoftheteam : 10/16/2021 3:59 pm : link
And Larwrence isnt ?

If Dex has a good week this week and Toney doesnt, the board ditches the Toney idea? Just funny how week to week everyone is.
RE: So now Toney is a made guy  
santacruzom : 10/16/2021 4:13 pm : link
In comment 15415387 fanoftheteam said:
Quote:
And Larwrence isnt ?

If Dex has a good week this week and Toney doesnt, the board ditches the Toney idea? Just funny how week to week everyone is.


I'm not as sure that Toney is an elite-caliber building block as I am that Lawrence isn't.
RE: I agree with DJ, Toney, and Thomas....  
Keaton028 : 10/16/2021 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15415382 No Where Man said:
Quote:
I think some of the following played can become part of the core but have been hurt, misued, played out of their natural position, or not coached up enough:

Saquon
Peart
Gates
Kaden Smith
Lawrence
Azeez
Cam Brown
Coughlin
Elerson Smith
Aaron Robinson
Austin Johnson
Robert Johnson
Wilson
Slayton
McKinney


Who is Robert Johnson?

What has Wilson, Aaron Robinson, or Elerson Smith done to be considered core players? None have played a snap for us.
RE: A basis to move forward is on the roster  
joeinpa : 10/16/2021 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15415376 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
On offense...you need to upgrade the OL and TE. You have Barkley in the fold for one more year...hope he can play.


A decent OL and pass rush would make this team a whole lot better very quickly.




Mike, you are absolutely right. But, the losing has jaded so many fans they can see no hope.

Lawrence sees a lot of doubles  
Giants73 : 10/16/2021 6:23 pm : link
Our edges should be able to occasionally beat one on one. Once they grab a slightly above average edge I think his production will increase on the stat sheet.
DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
GMen72 : 10/16/2021 6:31 pm : link
next year, but at $21.4 million for a 5th year option, at his current production levels, he'd be more of an anchor than a piece to build around.

DJ is a guy that is gonna need a REALLY good team around him (Baker Mayfield...but worse?). Paying him more money, makes the team around him worse (if that's possible?). Not a recipe for success. DJ better have one hell of a final 12 games, and actually throw TD passes, or there's no way he's getting a 5th year option.
RE: A basis to move forward is on the roster  
giantstock : 10/16/2021 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15415376 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
On offense...you need to upgrade the OL and TE. You have Barkley in the fold for one more year...hope he can play.

On defense it's complicated. You are probably set on the DL but need LB's and better play from S and CB. Ryan, Williams, Bradberry and Jackson are going to be here next year.

A decent OL and pass rush would make this team a whole lot better very quickly.




Teh defense alos needs a Nose Tackle, right?

SO they need a Nose Tackle. Pretty soon Lwrence contratc coming up.

They need 3 linebackers, right?

They could use a DB and a S but maybe they can get by maybe not.

On offense their TE's suck. They could use two OLinemen but more than likely 3, right?

Their star RB seems to always be hurt and is going ot be expecting a huge pay day.

The need at least 7 players maybe quite a bit more 10-12.
RE: RE: A basis to move forward is on the roster  
Angel Eyes : 10/16/2021 7:03 pm : link
In comment 15415484 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15415376 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


On offense...you need to upgrade the OL and TE. You have Barkley in the fold for one more year...hope he can play.

On defense it's complicated. You are probably set on the DL but need LB's and better play from S and CB. Ryan, Williams, Bradberry and Jackson are going to be here next year.

A decent OL and pass rush would make this team a whole lot better very quickly.






Teh defense alos needs a Nose Tackle, right?

SO they need a Nose Tackle. Pretty soon Lwrence contratc coming up.

They need 3 linebackers, right?

They could use a DB and a S but maybe they can get by maybe not.

On offense their TE's suck. They could use two OLinemen but more than likely 3, right?

Their star RB seems to always be hurt and is going ot be expecting a huge pay day.

The need at least 7 players maybe quite a bit more 10-12.

How would you suggest improving the team?
RE: RE: RE: A basis to move forward is on the roster  
giantstock : 10/16/2021 7:27 pm : link
In comment 15415488 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15415484 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15415376 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


On offense...you need to upgrade the OL and TE. You have Barkley in the fold for one more year...hope he can play.

On defense it's complicated. You are probably set on the DL but need LB's and better play from S and CB. Ryan, Williams, Bradberry and Jackson are going to be here next year.

A decent OL and pass rush would make this team a whole lot better very quickly.






Teh defense alos needs a Nose Tackle, right?

SO they need a Nose Tackle. Pretty soon Lwrence contratc coming up.

They need 3 linebackers, right?

They could use a DB and a S but maybe they can get by maybe not.

On offense their TE's suck. They could use two OLinemen but more than likely 3, right?

Their star RB seems to always be hurt and is going ot be expecting a huge pay day.

The need at least 7 players maybe quite a bit more 10-12.


How would you suggest improving the team?


Trade down. Get as many picks as you can. In 2022 accept that you are not going to be any good.

What would you do?
============
Unless you like a young QB better than Jones, then take the QB, trade Jones.
===============

Another option is look to build one part of the team exceptionally strong. If those that like Jones a lot, think what he can do if he had two high-tier draft picks out of their 1st three picks at the OL?

If he has a good pocket with possibly healthy WR's and possibly a healthy RB - for those that believe in him quite a bit he could excel.
------------------

On defense suppose you love one of the pass rushers that you think will be elite and you get him? Then your next 1st round pick you also get another player that is a very very good front 7 player? Then two of your next 3 picks you go defense - it is possible the defense can be exceptional to a degree IF IF IF the 1st two picks for example are impact players.

We are not out to win a Super Bowl next year, but be competitive. I tend to think though long-term rebuild but I can understand if they were to try to build one unit or the other as a strong unit then let the chips fall where they may. But but but if they do this - with a new GM at the helm.

For now ofc best thing is to wait. Anyhow, -- what would you do?
RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
Debaser : 10/16/2021 7:49 pm : link
In comment 15415464 GMen72 said:
Quote:
next year, but at $21.4 million for a 5th year option, at his current production levels, he'd be more of an anchor than a piece to build around.

DJ is a guy that is gonna need a REALLY good team around him (Baker Mayfield...but worse?). Paying him more money, makes the team around him worse (if that's possible?). Not a recipe for success. DJ better have one hell of a final 12 games, and actually throw TD passes, or there's no way he's getting a 5th year option.


Simply amazed that people look at this QB and think this is something to build around. Even now Mac Jones could give you this for 600,000.

I think Toney is a made guy simply because I am not convinced Lawrence would be anything special but it is possible Toney mught be. And elite talent at WR is arguably a lot more valuable than someone on Defense who is simply not elite and not a real pass rusher.
RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
giantstock : 10/16/2021 8:24 pm : link
In comment 15415464 GMen72 said:
Quote:
DJ better have one hell of a final 12 games, and actually throw TD passes, or there's no way he's getting a 5th year option.


1-- What happens if Peart is not very good? Isn't that a decent possibility?

2--- What happens if the Left Guards are no good? Isn't that a decent possibility?

3-- What happens if Hernandez doesn't show much? Isn't that a decent possibility?

4-- What happens if the Center, Price, plays like he has whole career and that means not any good? Isn't that a decent possibility?

5-- What happens if the Tights Ends suck? Isn't that a decent possibility?

6-- What happens if Barkley is on-again-off-again like he has been his whole career? Isn't that a decent possibility?

7-- What happens if Golladay keeps being injury prone? Isn't that a decent possibility?

8-- What happens if Shep keeps being injury prone? Isn't that a decent possibility?

9-- What happens if Slayton continues to underperforms like what he did in 2020? 7-- W Isn't that a decent possibility?

While not all are likely to happen but of lot of them could happen. Yet with all these questions, it's all on Jones? Don't other positions count?
RE: RE: RE: RE: A basis to move forward is on the roster  
Angel Eyes : 10/16/2021 8:30 pm : link
In comment 15415512 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15415488 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15415484 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15415376 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


On offense...you need to upgrade the OL and TE. You have Barkley in the fold for one more year...hope he can play.

On defense it's complicated. You are probably set on the DL but need LB's and better play from S and CB. Ryan, Williams, Bradberry and Jackson are going to be here next year.

A decent OL and pass rush would make this team a whole lot better very quickly.






Teh defense alos needs a Nose Tackle, right?

SO they need a Nose Tackle. Pretty soon Lwrence contratc coming up.

They need 3 linebackers, right?

They could use a DB and a S but maybe they can get by maybe not.

On offense their TE's suck. They could use two OLinemen but more than likely 3, right?

Their star RB seems to always be hurt and is going ot be expecting a huge pay day.

The need at least 7 players maybe quite a bit more 10-12.


How would you suggest improving the team?



Trade down. Get as many picks as you can. In 2022 accept that you are not going to be any good.

What would you do?
============
Unless you like a young QB better than Jones, then take the QB, trade Jones.
===============

Another option is look to build one part of the team exceptionally strong. If those that like Jones a lot, think what he can do if he had two high-tier draft picks out of their 1st three picks at the OL?

If he has a good pocket with possibly healthy WR's and possibly a healthy RB - for those that believe in him quite a bit he could excel.
------------------

On defense suppose you love one of the pass rushers that you think will be elite and you get him? Then your next 1st round pick you also get another player that is a very very good front 7 player? Then two of your next 3 picks you go defense - it is possible the defense can be exceptional to a degree IF IF IF the 1st two picks for example are impact players.

We are not out to win a Super Bowl next year, but be competitive. I tend to think though long-term rebuild but I can understand if they were to try to build one unit or the other as a strong unit then let the chips fall where they may. But but but if they do this - with a new GM at the helm.

For now ofc best thing is to wait. Anyhow, -- what would you do?

First off, does this consider specific players?

This will be a bit long...

1. The defense. Simply put, we haven't been good on defense I also have a thread around here examining whether or not the Giants should consider switching their defensive alignment from 3-4 to 4-3 for a couple reasons; see thread for full details.
1a. Defensive tackles. Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams, our 3-4 defensive ends, are good defensive tackles, but Williams hasn't been earning his contract with his production and Lawrence hasn't been playing like a first-round pick. I'm torn about switching Lawrence to nose (some on BBI think he'd be wasted there) or putting him and Williams into a one-gap 4-3 where double-teams can be distributed more evenly. Skillset-wise, Williams looks more like a Hammer-type (if you know what I mean).
1b. The edge rushers need retooling either way regardless of whether or not we switch formations; we're not good at either thing edge rushers need to do: we don't go anywhere without an edge rush and teams are gashing us on the ground off-tackle. Lorenzo Carter's contract is up after this year and I don't see any particular reason to keep him since he's barely been average since drafting him. I'd also cut bait with Ximines since he hasn't been good since we drafted him. I'd sign a veteran edge in the offseason to a one-year deal to teach the younger players, like Jabaal Sheard or Justin Houston. I intend to double-down on edge in the draft; take an edge like Aidan Hutchinson or George Karlaftis in the first round and a developmental edge in the early-mid rounds (maybe a third because you can never have too many pass rushers, ain't that right, Gettleman?); projections seem to fly all over the place after the first round, guys like Kingsley Enagbare or Arnold Ebiketie.
1c: Linebackers. Blake Martinez is a good MIKE linebacker but we can't rely on Tae Crowder yet as his running mate. For a SAM linebacker (we'd need one anyways even if we switched) I could see us getting a guy like Brandon Smith from Penn State or Sam Williams of Ole Miss as a linebacker who can play the run and key tight ends. Another option is Nik Bonitto; Bonitto is a great blitzer and while he needs improvement in run defense, is supposed to be good in coverage against tight ends. Which brings me to my second point:
2. Tight End. Engram's contract is up after this year and why the Giants think he's worth holding onto is beyond me. Rudolph is also aging (like Walter Donovan-type aging). Simply put, we need a tight end who doesn't have hands of stone, can block if needed, and is a reliable red-zone target. So I'd draft a tight end in the second or third round, say if Jalen Wydermeyer or Cade Otten falls into our lap.
3. Offensive line. Hernandez's contract is up after 2021 and it's up in the air whether or not we keep him. Solder hasn't been good. So I intend to take an OG/OT like Kenyon Green with one of our first-round picks, followed by an OG/OC in a later round if Gates can't make it back to full strength.
4. Quarterback. I don't necessarily like the quarterbacks much more than Jones at the moment, we have bigger needs than quarterback at the moment, and projections have been flying all over the place with some of them. I suppose I could go with someone like Kenny Pickett or Carson Strong in the mid rounds, but each has their limitations; Strong is primarily a pocket passer while Pickett is a gunslinger, which can be good or bad.

Admittedly I've lost sight of the skill positions like running back, wide receiver, and defensive back.
RE: RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
GMen72 : 10/16/2021 9:16 pm : link
In comment 15415548 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15415464 GMen72 said:


Quote:


DJ better have one hell of a final 12 games, and actually throw TD passes, or there's no way he's getting a 5th year option.



1-- What happens if Peart is not very good? Isn't that a decent possibility?

2--- What happens if the Left Guards are no good? Isn't that a decent possibility?

3-- What happens if Hernandez doesn't show much? Isn't that a decent possibility?

4-- What happens if the Center, Price, plays like he has whole career and that means not any good? Isn't that a decent possibility?

5-- What happens if the Tights Ends suck? Isn't that a decent possibility?

6-- What happens if Barkley is on-again-off-again like he has been his whole career? Isn't that a decent possibility?

7-- What happens if Golladay keeps being injury prone? Isn't that a decent possibility?

8-- What happens if Shep keeps being injury prone? Isn't that a decent possibility?

9-- What happens if Slayton continues to underperforms like what he did in 2020? 7-- W Isn't that a decent possibility?

While not all are likely to happen but of lot of them could happen. Yet with all these questions, it's all on Jones? Don't other positions count?


It's a QB league...and most take 2-3 years to be playoff caliber. So, Jones plays next year, and we draft a QB in 2023. That QB, most likely, won't be ready to truly lead a team until 2025 (if at all). So, while everything you mentioned is important, it's all about the quarterback. If Jones doesn't workout, there's a good chance most of the players you mentioned won't even be on the roster when we have a QB that can win 8+ games.
Thomas, Jones and KT?  
chick310 : 10/16/2021 10:31 pm : link
That’s all we got as a core, are you sure?

I think we may have others, and not sure all 3 of these guys are core either. So this is kind of off base both ways.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A basis to move forward is on the roster  
giantstock : 10/17/2021 12:44 am : link
In comment 15415557 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15415512 giantstock said:


Quote:





First off, does this consider specific players?

This will be a bit long...



I agree with you 100%. Love how you are looking at this. I was messing around with the simulator and oddly I came up with some of the names you mentioned and on a trade down. OFC the simulator's are just fantasy and ofc I know the general feel when a player gets picked. But I did one and made so many tradedowns I came up with this:

Hutchinson-23rd pick-Edge, Devin Lloyd 38-ILB/OLB, Ed Ingram-42-OG, Adam Anderson-54-Edge/OLB, Darian Kinard-67-OT, Nik Bonitto-69-Edge/OLB, Alec Lindstrom-73-C, CJ Verdell-79-RB, Brandon Smith-85-Jaquan Brisker-121-S, Charlie Kolar-145-TE, 154-Phildarian Mathis-Dt, and DJ Dale-186-DT.

These are extreme trade-downs ofc and some of the players won't be there/near to where - but basically, regardless of names, went after many Edges/OLB types and one ILB. And two DT's and went after 3 OL. And with all the Edges/OLB's you can go to 4-3 if you want.
RE: RE: RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
giantstock : 10/17/2021 1:31 am : link
In comment 15415599 GMen72 said:
Quote:
In comment 15415548 giantstock said:


Quote:





It's a QB league...and most take 2-3 years to be playoff caliber. So, Jones plays next year, and we draft a QB in 2023. That QB, most likely, won't be ready to truly lead a team until 2025 (if at all). So, while everything you mentioned is important, it's all about the quarterback. If Jones doesn't workout, there's a good chance most of the players you mentioned won't even be on the roster when we have a QB that can win 8+ games.


No it's not a QB's league. It's a coined phrase by the media. Don't take it so literal. Most important position (i.e. the QB) does NOT mean "QB LEAGUE ONLY." If you are going to take it so literal then explain the below:

1-- If it were a QB league then why doesn't every NFL team that doesn't have an elite in rd 1 draft a QB?

2---If it's a QB's league then why pay so much for the other positions?

3a-- If it's a Qb's league then why hasn't Aaron Rodgers been to more Super Bowls other than 1? Only won 1 too.

3b-- SO it's not a QB's league when Aaron Rodgers loses but it's a QB's league when Daniel Jones loses?

3c- If it’s a Qb's league then why did Aaron Rodgers lose to Jimmy G in 2019? And why did Brady lose to Tannehill in that same year?

4-- If it's a Qb's league then why would you ever be mad at the defense for example of the Giants this year? Instead why wouldn't the narrative be "It's not the Giants defense fault that they couldn't hold a lead late in the game. It's that the offense couldn't score no matter how awful the defense is."

5a-- If it's a Qb's league then can you explain why last year in the Super Bowl why Mahomes had such a God-Awful game with a Qb Rating of 52.3?

5b-- Many suggested it was because he lost his offensive tackles 1st and 2nd team OT's. But apparently according to you because it's a QB's league and other players it seems to you apparently have little value only the QB, then it was Mahomes who blew it and it had nothing to do with his teammates being injured.

5c—If it’s a QB’s league then why does KC ever need to draft any high round Offensive Linemen or pay for nay expensive OL Free Agents. After all, it’s a QB’s league so the OL is not important, right? Or is the OL important in our “un-hyportcrtical” POV for Mahomes but for Jones we should believe it’s all his fault and should overcome it?
5d-- Unless again we're looking to be hypocritical? When Mahomes fails it is NOT a QB's league - the greatest QB on the planet needs teammates that can support him. But when Daniel Jones fails it has nothing to do with his teammates but instead because it’s a QB's league it's all his fault.

6—If other positions are important (which they are) then the same criteria should fall to Jones. The other spots are important. If after 2-3 years you give him shit, instead of letting the media think for you, think how a Qb we’ll call him decent for this argument can win vs other terrific teams that have better defenses and better offensive lines and overall better position players (that actually play.).


RE: RE: RE: RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
GMen72 : 10/17/2021 4:11 am : link
In comment 15415681 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15415599 GMen72 said:


Quote:


In comment 15415548 giantstock said:


Quote:





It's a QB league...and most take 2-3 years to be playoff caliber. So, Jones plays next year, and we draft a QB in 2023. That QB, most likely, won't be ready to truly lead a team until 2025 (if at all). So, while everything you mentioned is important, it's all about the quarterback. If Jones doesn't workout, there's a good chance most of the players you mentioned won't even be on the roster when we have a QB that can win 8+ games.



No it's not a QB's league. It's a coined phrase by the media. Don't take it so literal. Most important position (i.e. the QB) does NOT mean "QB LEAGUE ONLY." If you are going to take it so literal then explain the below:

1-- If it were a QB league then why doesn't every NFL team that doesn't have an elite in rd 1 draft a QB?

2---If it's a QB's league then why pay so much for the other positions?

3a-- If it's a Qb's league then why hasn't Aaron Rodgers been to more Super Bowls other than 1? Only won 1 too.

3b-- SO it's not a QB's league when Aaron Rodgers loses but it's a QB's league when Daniel Jones loses?

3c- If it’s a Qb's league then why did Aaron Rodgers lose to Jimmy G in 2019? And why did Brady lose to Tannehill in that same year?

4-- If it's a Qb's league then why would you ever be mad at the defense for example of the Giants this year? Instead why wouldn't the narrative be "It's not the Giants defense fault that they couldn't hold a lead late in the game. It's that the offense couldn't score no matter how awful the defense is."

5a-- If it's a Qb's league then can you explain why last year in the Super Bowl why Mahomes had such a God-Awful game with a Qb Rating of 52.3?

5b-- Many suggested it was because he lost his offensive tackles 1st and 2nd team OT's. But apparently according to you because it's a QB's league and other players it seems to you apparently have little value only the QB, then it was Mahomes who blew it and it had nothing to do with his teammates being injured.

5c—If it’s a QB’s league then why does KC ever need to draft any high round Offensive Linemen or pay for nay expensive OL Free Agents. After all, it’s a QB’s league so the OL is not important, right? Or is the OL important in our “un-hyportcrtical” POV for Mahomes but for Jones we should believe it’s all his fault and should overcome it?
5d-- Unless again we're looking to be hypocritical? When Mahomes fails it is NOT a QB's league - the greatest QB on the planet needs teammates that can support him. But when Daniel Jones fails it has nothing to do with his teammates but instead because it’s a QB's league it's all his fault.

6—If other positions are important (which they are) then the same criteria should fall to Jones. The other spots are important. If after 2-3 years you give him shit, instead of letting the media think for you, think how a Qb we’ll call him decent for this argument can win vs other terrific teams that have better defenses and better offensive lines and overall better position players (that actually play.).



You post is so stupid, I'd rather not respond...but I dont want you to think you're football smart, so I feel obligated. Does the QB need to be the only player on the field (your premise in your silly rant) to be a QB league? Obviously, not. Is the QB the most important position on any NFL team (my premise). Yes, hence the NFL being a "QB league."

Where did I say other positions aren't important, or that elite players at any position shouldn't be well compensated? Stop putting words in my mouth so you can try to feel less ignorant.

1. Probably because they're waiting for their version of DJ (Hurts, Tua, Goff, Baker, etc.) to become elite. Not to mention, if a team drafted a QB in the 1st round every year, they'd have 4 QBs on rookie contracts at $30+ million a year, defeating the pourpose.

2. Because there's a salary cap and it's a team. If QBs aren't the most important position...why are the elite the highest paid players in the league?

3a. Rodgers has been to many NFC Championships (some when he had terrible defenses) and been beaten by other elite QBs. Seriously though...Green Bay has been a successful franchise for over 30 years because of 2 of the best QBs to ever play the game, and you use that franchise to try to prove your point? Really? You literally proved my point for me!

3b and c...you do understand that upsets happen. Rodgers wins more than he loses....DJ doesn't.

4. Because a team with a shitty defense and a shitty QB can't win football games in the NFL. Teams with a shitty defense (Seattle, Dallas, KC), and elite QBs, can still win alot of games. The fans with great QBs and shitty defenses actually get more upset, because they know they have the QB to win more games, and possibly a SB. Intelligent Giants fans (you don't qualify) know that this is a sub .500 team, even with a good defense (6-10 last year).

5. Your dumbest point. Saying the QB is the most important position on a NFL roster, doesn't mean you don't build a team around him. Even you aren't this stupid, which made your question pointless.

6. Your only decent point but it's still BS. If you put DJ on KC, Buffalo, Baltimore, LAC, LAR, etc., do those teams get better or worse? They ALL get worse because DJ can't play QB at the level those teams are accustomed to. Fuck...DJ has one 300 yard passing game in the last 2 years, can't throw for 1 TD a game over that same time frame, and has worse career stats than Mitch Trubisky. If you want to annoint him a "franchise QB", at least make him resemble one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
giantstock : 10/17/2021 10:22 am : link
In comment 15415692 GMen72 said:
Quote:
In comment 15415681 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15415599 GMen72 said:


Quote:


In comment 15415548 giantstock said:


Quote:





It's a QB league...and most take 2-3 years to be playoff caliber. So, Jones plays next year, and we draft a QB in 2023. That QB, most likely, won't be ready to truly lead a team until 2025 (if at all). So, while everything you mentioned is important, it's all about the quarterback. If Jones doesn't workout, there's a good chance most of the players you mentioned won't even be on the roster when we have a QB that can win 8+ games.



No it's not a QB's league. It's a coined phrase by the media. Don't take it so literal. Most important position (i.e. the QB) does NOT mean "QB LEAGUE ONLY." If you are going to take it so literal then explain the below:

1-- If it were a QB league then why doesn't every NFL team that doesn't have an elite in rd 1 draft a QB?

2---If it's a QB's league then why pay so much for the other positions?

3a-- If it's a Qb's league then why hasn't Aaron Rodgers been to more Super Bowls other than 1? Only won 1 too.

3b-- SO it's not a QB's league when Aaron Rodgers loses but it's a QB's league when Daniel Jones loses?

3c- If it’s a Qb's league then why did Aaron Rodgers lose to Jimmy G in 2019? And why did Brady lose to Tannehill in that same year?

4-- If it's a Qb's league then why would you ever be mad at the defense for example of the Giants this year? Instead why wouldn't the narrative be "It's not the Giants defense fault that they couldn't hold a lead late in the game. It's that the offense couldn't score no matter how awful the defense is."

5a-- If it's a Qb's league then can you explain why last year in the Super Bowl why Mahomes had such a God-Awful game with a Qb Rating of 52.3?

5b-- Many suggested it was because he lost his offensive tackles 1st and 2nd team OT's. But apparently according to you because it's a QB's league and other players it seems to you apparently have little value only the QB, then it was Mahomes who blew it and it had nothing to do with his teammates being injured.

5c—If it’s a QB’s league then why does KC ever need to draft any high round Offensive Linemen or pay for nay expensive OL Free Agents. After all, it’s a QB’s league so the OL is not important, right? Or is the OL important in our “un-hyportcrtical” POV for Mahomes but for Jones we should believe it’s all his fault and should overcome it?
5d-- Unless again we're looking to be hypocritical? When Mahomes fails it is NOT a QB's league - the greatest QB on the planet needs teammates that can support him. But when Daniel Jones fails it has nothing to do with his teammates but instead because it’s a QB's league it's all his fault.

6—If other positions are important (which they are) then the same criteria should fall to Jones. The other spots are important. If after 2-3 years you give him shit, instead of letting the media think for you, think how a Qb we’ll call him decent for this argument can win vs other terrific teams that have better defenses and better offensive lines and overall better position players (that actually play.).





You post is so stupid, I'd rather not respond...but I dont want you to think you're football smart, so I feel obligated.


I posted the exaggerations because of your ignorant implication that it's on Jones to produce but when other QB's don't produce because their teammates aren't good enough, posters like you turn a blind eye.

There's one rule for Jones with some of you and another rule for every other QB in the NFL.

You're too stupid to address this further.
There's a distinct possibility  
Dave on the UWS : 10/17/2021 11:40 am : link
that this team is going to suffer a massive, destructive season (1-16, 2-15) that sort of thing. How many players from that kind of team are building blocks? Not many would be a good answer. Jones is probably serviceable going forward, but even an elite young QB won't rescue this mess. (look at Wilson on the Jets). This roster, and organization, is such a mess right now, that looking at individual players is almost pointless. AND, thanks to DG and his "wonderful" use of the salary cap, the team is screwed over the next few years. The ONLY way this team is improving, is to get improving play out of all the young players- something we are NOT seeing. (Wrong players or crappy coaching?)
RE: RE: RE: RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15415681 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15415599 GMen72 said:


Quote:


In comment 15415548 giantstock said:


Quote:





It's a QB league...and most take 2-3 years to be playoff caliber. So, Jones plays next year, and we draft a QB in 2023. That QB, most likely, won't be ready to truly lead a team until 2025 (if at all). So, while everything you mentioned is important, it's all about the quarterback. If Jones doesn't workout, there's a good chance most of the players you mentioned won't even be on the roster when we have a QB that can win 8+ games.



No it's not a QB's league. It's a coined phrase by the media. Don't take it so literal. Most important position (i.e. the QB) does NOT mean "QB LEAGUE ONLY." If you are going to take it so literal then explain the below:

1-- If it were a QB league then why doesn't every NFL team that doesn't have an elite in rd 1 draft a QB?

2---If it's a QB's league then why pay so much for the other positions?

3a-- If it's a Qb's league then why hasn't Aaron Rodgers been to more Super Bowls other than 1? Only won 1 too.

3b-- SO it's not a QB's league when Aaron Rodgers loses but it's a QB's league when Daniel Jones loses?

3c- If it’s a Qb's league then why did Aaron Rodgers lose to Jimmy G in 2019? And why did Brady lose to Tannehill in that same year?

4-- If it's a Qb's league then why would you ever be mad at the defense for example of the Giants this year? Instead why wouldn't the narrative be "It's not the Giants defense fault that they couldn't hold a lead late in the game. It's that the offense couldn't score no matter how awful the defense is."

5a-- If it's a Qb's league then can you explain why last year in the Super Bowl why Mahomes had such a God-Awful game with a Qb Rating of 52.3?

5b-- Many suggested it was because he lost his offensive tackles 1st and 2nd team OT's. But apparently according to you because it's a QB's league and other players it seems to you apparently have little value only the QB, then it was Mahomes who blew it and it had nothing to do with his teammates being injured.

5c—If it’s a QB’s league then why does KC ever need to draft any high round Offensive Linemen or pay for nay expensive OL Free Agents. After all, it’s a QB’s league so the OL is not important, right? Or is the OL important in our “un-hyportcrtical” POV for Mahomes but for Jones we should believe it’s all his fault and should overcome it?
5d-- Unless again we're looking to be hypocritical? When Mahomes fails it is NOT a QB's league - the greatest QB on the planet needs teammates that can support him. But when Daniel Jones fails it has nothing to do with his teammates but instead because it’s a QB's league it's all his fault.

6—If other positions are important (which they are) then the same criteria should fall to Jones. The other spots are important. If after 2-3 years you give him shit, instead of letting the media think for you, think how a Qb we’ll call him decent for this argument can win vs other terrific teams that have better defenses and better offensive lines and overall better position players (that actually play.).


You're basically just arguing with semantics and statistics to present a favorable view of Jones which really doesn't hold any water.

QB league doesn't mean it's the only position on the field.


You're arguments with statistics ignore the eye test. I watched the SB and I though Mahomes is actually not having as bad a game as many realize but, KC in general looks

He made several potential "Wow" plays inclding running for his life ; jumping up in the air ; and while HORIZONTAL throwing a pass that hits his TE right in the numbers that he dropped.While at the Falcons however I felt like it could climb down out of the standsand got into the game for the Giants and pretty much throw the ball 30 feet in front of me also(I did miss the first 5 min however which sounded like a big play
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: DJ may be someone to stick with at $8.4 million  
GMen72 : 10/17/2021 3:54 pm : link
In comment 15415807 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15415692 GMen72 said:


Quote:


In comment 15415681 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15415599 GMen72 said:


Quote:


In comment 15415548 giantstock said:


Quote:





It's a QB league...and most take 2-3 years to be playoff caliber. So, Jones plays next year, and we draft a QB in 2023. That QB, most likely, won't be ready to truly lead a team until 2025 (if at all). So, while everything you mentioned is important, it's all about the quarterback. If Jones doesn't workout, there's a good chance most of the players you mentioned won't even be on the roster when we have a QB that can win 8+ games.



No it's not a QB's league. It's a coined phrase by the media. Don't take it so literal. Most important position (i.e. the QB) does NOT mean "QB LEAGUE ONLY." If you are going to take it so literal then explain the below:

1-- If it were a QB league then why doesn't every NFL team that doesn't have an elite in rd 1 draft a QB?

2---If it's a QB's league then why pay so much for the other positions?

3a-- If it's a Qb's league then why hasn't Aaron Rodgers been to more Super Bowls other than 1? Only won 1 too.

3b-- SO it's not a QB's league when Aaron Rodgers loses but it's a QB's league when Daniel Jones loses?

3c- If it’s a Qb's league then why did Aaron Rodgers lose to Jimmy G in 2019? And why did Brady lose to Tannehill in that same year?

4-- If it's a Qb's league then why would you ever be mad at the defense for example of the Giants this year? Instead why wouldn't the narrative be "It's not the Giants defense fault that they couldn't hold a lead late in the game. It's that the offense couldn't score no matter how awful the defense is."

5a-- If it's a Qb's league then can you explain why last year in the Super Bowl why Mahomes had such a God-Awful game with a Qb Rating of 52.3?

5b-- Many suggested it was because he lost his offensive tackles 1st and 2nd team OT's. But apparently according to you because it's a QB's league and other players it seems to you apparently have little value only the QB, then it was Mahomes who blew it and it had nothing to do with his teammates being injured.

5c—If it’s a QB’s league then why does KC ever need to draft any high round Offensive Linemen or pay for nay expensive OL Free Agents. After all, it’s a QB’s league so the OL is not important, right? Or is the OL important in our “un-hyportcrtical” POV for Mahomes but for Jones we should believe it’s all his fault and should overcome it?
5d-- Unless again we're looking to be hypocritical? When Mahomes fails it is NOT a QB's league - the greatest QB on the planet needs teammates that can support him. But when Daniel Jones fails it has nothing to do with his teammates but instead because it’s a QB's league it's all his fault.

6—If other positions are important (which they are) then the same criteria should fall to Jones. The other spots are important. If after 2-3 years you give him shit, instead of letting the media think for you, think how a Qb we’ll call him decent for this argument can win vs other terrific teams that have better defenses and better offensive lines and overall better position players (that actually play.).





You post is so stupid, I'd rather not respond...but I dont want you to think you're football smart, so I feel obligated.



I posted the exaggerations because of your ignorant implication that it's on Jones to produce but when other QB's don't produce because their teammates aren't good enough, posters like you turn a blind eye.

There's one rule for Jones with some of you and another rule for every other QB in the NFL.

You're too stupid to address this further.


You posted a stupid take to defend Daniel Jones, and to make him something he's not, a franchise QB. Jones is held to the same standards every NFL QB is...throw TDs, lead scoring drives, and win games. You don't want Jones to earn the job, you'd rather lower the bar of the QB position throughout the NFL to make him "decent."

The funny thing is...any real Giant fan, including myself, would love for Daniel Jones to be great...but we see the obvious flaws...you ignore them, defend mediocrity, and think you're a better fan. Good luck with that...

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