And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
Yeah, I don't think anyone on this team is 'the guy'
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
Yeah, and most of us knew Eli was washed. What was your point, that Jones is as bad as Ei was at the end of his career? That’s not the winning argument you think it is.
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
Different QBs, same results.
Different GMs, same results.
Different head coaches, same results.
You think Jones is the source of all problems. That’s just stupid IMO.
Identyfing problems isn't very hard.with this franchise.
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
Different QBs, same results.
Different GMs, same results.
Different head coaches, same results.
You think Jones is the source of all problems. That’s just stupid IMO.
Even Jones’s biggest detractors are saying he is the only or even the biggest problem, but he’s not the solution either.
Jones is one of the problems in that a lot was spent to get him and he isn't very good.
You said it best when you mentioned QB scouting. Since Eli, this team cannot scout QB’s. Every developmental QB under Eli never worked out. Jones looks over drafted.
The Giants passed on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson & Justin Herbert. “Well at least they didn’t draft Haskins” isn’t good enough. This franchise stinks at QB scouting.
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
Different QBs, same results.
Different GMs, same results.
Different head coaches, same results.
You think Jones is the source of all problems. That’s just stupid IMO.
If you have a bad QB, you can't do anything in this league. Jones is well into his third season, and he has improved only marginally. At best he is a bottom third starting QB in this league. At best. More likely he is a backup. I think what you are seeing is the result of having a backup as your starting QB. We have other problems, of course, but a bad QB makes a bad situation, totally hopeless.
Jones is one of the problems in that a lot was spent to get him and he isn't very good.
You said it best when you mentioned QB scouting. Since Eli, this team cannot scout QB’s. Every developmental QB under Eli never worked out. Jones looks over drafted.
The Giants passed on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson & Justin Herbert. “Well at least they didn’t draft Haskins” isn’t good enough. This franchise stinks at QB scouting.
Part of the problem is they have an antiquated perception of what the position is supposed to be. I'd bet anything they didn't have first round grades on Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray.
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
RE: RE: RE: The source of all the problems is Mara
Jones is one of the problems in that a lot was spent to get him and he isn't very good.
You said it best when you mentioned QB scouting. Since Eli, this team cannot scout QB’s. Every developmental QB under Eli never worked out. Jones looks over drafted.
The Giants passed on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson & Justin Herbert. “Well at least they didn’t draft Haskins” isn’t good enough. This franchise stinks at QB scouting.
Part of the problem is they have an antiquated perception of what the position is supposed to be. I'd bet anything they didn't have first round grades on Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray.
But now I see that it is a complete organizational failure that makes success impossible. Scouting and front office can’t identify OL unless they have a high first rounder. Coaches can’t scheme offensively or defensively. Front office locks in on talented players without asking themselves whether they player has already reached their peak or not. The list goes on. A complete and total tear down and rebuild is in order.
Sitting here watching the Seahawks and Steelers, with the ghost of Big Ben running the Steelers. Seeing the Hawks crowd the LOS because they know Ben’s arm is shot and just dare him to throw short and beat them. The Steelers D looks solid enough and the offense has some weapons, even with losing one WR last week.
I wonder if the Steelers would take a chance on Jones. He likely isn’t a long term solution for them, but he might be the bridge guy until he gets expensive. This year’s QB college crop isn’t going to get it done for them.
Maybe the Giants can get a conditional pick for Jones from Pitt. Won’t be a day 1 and most likely not a day 2 pick. But right now, Jones isn’t going to be the long term answer and the Giants need draft picks to rebuild. Could the Giants get a 4th that could become a 3rd if he meets some conditions?
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
The first game Lamar Jackson started in the NFL, three-fifths of his offensive line was Ronnie Stanley, Mashal Yanda, and Orlando Brown Jr. He’s got a GREAT head coach. In Jackson’s first full season as starter, they hired Greg Roman, who did a great job designing the offense under Harbaugh for a resurgent Alex Smith and Super Bowl starter Colin Kaepernick.
None of these successful young QBs has seen a situation even remotely as close to the disaster that the Giants are. Heck, look at the numbers Ekeler, Allen, and Williams put up the year before Justin Herbert took over.
Maybe the Giants can get a conditional pick for Jones from Pitt. Won’t be a day 1 and most likely not a day 2 pick. But right now, Jones isn’t going to be the long term answer and the Giants need draft picks to rebuild. Could the Giants get a 4th that could become a 3rd if he meets some conditions?
The comp has to be Darnold. If the Jets can get a second for SD, I have to imagine we could get the same for Jones.
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
The first game Lamar Jackson started in the NFL, three-fifths of his offensive line was Ronnie Stanley, Mashal Yanda, and Orlando Brown Jr. He’s got a GREAT head coach. In Jackson’s first full season as starter, they hired Greg Roman, who did a great job designing the offense under Harbaugh for a resurgent Alex Smith and Super Bowl starter Colin Kaepernick.
None of these successful young QBs has seen a situation even remotely as close to the disaster that the Giants are. Heck, look at the numbers Ekeler, Allen, and Williams put up the year before Justin Herbert took over.
but it's not just his record, which is bad. And it's not just his stats, which are bad. he looks like garbage, he doesn't look anything close to Herbert. Herbert is better in every single regard.
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
The first game Lamar Jackson started in the NFL, three-fifths of his offensive line was Ronnie Stanley, Mashal Yanda, and Orlando Brown Jr. He’s got a GREAT head coach. In Jackson’s first full season as starter, they hired Greg Roman, who did a great job designing the offense under Harbaugh for a resurgent Alex Smith and Super Bowl starter Colin Kaepernick.
None of these successful young QBs has seen a situation even remotely as close to the disaster that the Giants are. Heck, look at the numbers Ekeler, Allen, and Williams put up the year before Justin Herbert took over.
Jackson has improved his game each year, and not just marginally either. What does Jones do better than he did Year 1? The answer is nothing.
IDGAF if Jones ever starts another game for the Giants.
This mindset however that any of these other young QBs could be dropped into this situation and be successful is just foolish IMO. This isn’t the NBA and none of those guys, Mahomes included, is LeBron. So much went into the development of these players that you guys don’t give these organizations credit for. And not a single one has dealt with a train wreck the likes of this Giants organization. Maybe Jones wasn’t good enough to begin with. But there is no “good enough” to overcome this mess. We saw what the Giants did to build a team around Eli. The same guy who drafted Jones failed him at every turn. Why would it have been different with Josh Allen?
but he just seems to have no pocket awareness and doesn't process things fast enough. On a lot of these fumbles/sacks he seems to have no idea how close the rush was. He just doesn't seem to be getting through is progressions fast enough.
but he just seems to have no pocket awareness and doesn't process things fast enough. On a lot of these fumbles/sacks he seems to have no idea how close the rush was. He just doesn't seem to be getting through is progressions fast enough.
But he IS part of the problem, and he plays the most important position on the team.
"The rest of the team sucks too" is not an argument in support of moving forward with Daniel Jones.
The smart move is to trade him ASAP. That also applies to every other player on the roster. If a guy can be traded within the constraints of the cap and there is a willing partner, then that guy should be traded.
Amass as many picks and accelerate as much cap pain as possible.
The record may only be marginally better with Allen or Jackson
One more year for DJ. But the coaching staff and GM have to go
This sounds like John Mara levels of idiocy. If you're brining in a new coaching staff and new GM, why wouldn't you let them pick their QB?
Totally amazing how crazy this place goes for jones. So we're replacing the coaches (yet again) ; the oc; the gm; the oline; the vp of player personnel but Daniel Jones get's to stay?????? This is the POV around here? OK I have to go to earth now
IDGAF if Jones ever starts another game for the Giants.
This mindset however that any of these other young QBs could be dropped into this situation and be successful is just foolish IMO. This isn’t the NBA and none of those guys, Mahomes included, is LeBron. So much went into the development of these players that you guys don’t give these organizations credit for. And not a single one has dealt with a train wreck the likes of this Giants organization. Maybe Jones wasn’t good enough to begin with. But there is no “good enough” to overcome this mess. We saw what the Giants did to build a team around Eli. The same guy who drafted Jones failed him at every turn. Why would it have been different with Josh Allen?
In the modern NFL, the QB is like LeBron. He isn't one of 11 or one of 22. The QB is somewhere between 20 to 30%.
I think those trade parameters work for a DJ trade.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
RE: I think Jones is better than Darnold with more upside
I think those trade parameters work for a DJ trade.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
Kirk Cousins? Look, Cousins may not be Peyton Manning but he's at a level Jones is unlikely to reach.
Once that happened he was right back in the same position he was in all last season. No weapons. If anything he proved he can't carry a team by himself. It's too soon to give up on him IMO. Yes this season is another disaster. I really wish the Giants could pull wins out of their asses but that's not how it works in the NFL.
Many people had said the same regarding Eli after his 2nd
loss to undrafted Romo during the 2007 season. A lot said Eli would never deliver a championship to NY. Afterwards he had a 4 int. loss to Vikings and bad loss to Washington before clinching the playoffs with the win over the Bills and playing a very good game against the undefeated Pats to end the season. During the playoffs something seemed to clicked and the incredible run to the defeat of the 18-0 Patriots cemented his legacy. Many forgot he led the league in interceptions that year.
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
I've had a sneaky feeling that he will have success with his 2nd team for a little bit now and he might just be on that path now.
Regarding the Giants, he's still on a rookie deal so if whoever is making the decisions at that time doesn't see a longterm solution this offseason, he makes just as much or more sense than any other bridge QB. Too many variables right now though, we have no idea who the GM is or if Judge will still be the coach. My preference has always been a consistent clean sweep so despite liking and believing in Jones potential as a good starting QB, if he needs to be collateral damage in a sweeping change then so be it. I don't see the type of upside necessary to cling to a guy that probably needs stability to be successful. That ain't us. This franchise is in bad shape and it's probably time to flush all of it - good, bad or neutral. On the other side of the coin, I don't see a need to force a change while he's still on a reasonable contract. The Giants should take the same approach the Jets took last offseason with Darnold basically.
Jones is one of the problems in that a lot was spent to get him and he isn't very good.
Like what? A top 10 draft pick? While I agree Jones is not a #6 pick, by the looks of things we will be in no short supply of top 10 picks in the immediate future. Also assuming Jalen hurts was properly drafted in the 2nd round; if you could tomorrow would you really trade for him?
At this point the Giants have no choice but to rally around Jones. You cannot go back in time and pick differently and there is nothing on the free agent market or the upcoming draft that is better.
RE: Jones probably doesn't justify his draft status
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
That's ok. However, you don't waste draft and free agent capital giving him "weapons" that he is unable to/doesn't know how to utilize. You trade Golladay, Engram and cut Shepard and his under 10 yards per catch and 9 million dollars. You spend the draft and free agent capital on run blockers (whether they can pass block or not is not relevant), running backs and defense. Jones' role then becomes handing off and trying not to fuck things up. He gets paid accordingly. If he doesn't like it, he can walk because you can get that elsewhere.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
RE: RE: Jones probably doesn't justify his draft status
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
That's ok. However, you don't waste draft and free agent capital giving him "weapons" that he is unable to/doesn't know how to utilize. You trade Golladay, Engram and cut Shepard and his under 10 yards per catch and 9 million dollars. You spend the draft and free agent capital on run blockers (whether they can pass block or not is not relevant), running backs and defense. Jones' role then becomes handing off and trying not to fuck things up. He gets paid accordingly. If he doesn't like it, he can walk because you can get that elsewhere.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
While I am not exactly disagreeing with you -- you can't trade Golladay. It would just look stupid since you just signed him and he still needs someone to throw to. i am sure no one really has a probelm cutting shep ; trading engram etc if you believe Jones is a career benchwarmer or going to be Aaron Rodgers.
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
The whole situation just sucks.
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
Yeah, and most of us knew Eli was washed. What was your point, that Jones is as bad as Ei was at the end of his career? That’s not the winning argument you think it is.
Quote:
In comment 15418264 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
Different QBs, same results.
Different GMs, same results.
Different head coaches, same results.
You think Jones is the source of all problems. That’s just stupid IMO.
Quote:
In comment 15418326 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15418264 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
Different QBs, same results.
Different GMs, same results.
Different head coaches, same results.
You think Jones is the source of all problems. That’s just stupid IMO.
Even Jones’s biggest detractors are saying he is the only or even the biggest problem, but he’s not the solution either.
You said it best when you mentioned QB scouting. Since Eli, this team cannot scout QB’s. Every developmental QB under Eli never worked out. Jones looks over drafted.
The Giants passed on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson & Justin Herbert. “Well at least they didn’t draft Haskins” isn’t good enough. This franchise stinks at QB scouting.
Quote:
In comment 15418326 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15418264 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
what does comparing Jones' record to Eli's record (after Eli was washed up) have to do with anything? Do you hear yourself? It's just excuses.
Different QBs, same results.
Different GMs, same results.
Different head coaches, same results.
You think Jones is the source of all problems. That’s just stupid IMO.
If you have a bad QB, you can't do anything in this league. Jones is well into his third season, and he has improved only marginally. At best he is a bottom third starting QB in this league. At best. More likely he is a backup. I think what you are seeing is the result of having a backup as your starting QB. We have other problems, of course, but a bad QB makes a bad situation, totally hopeless.
Quote:
Jones is one of the problems in that a lot was spent to get him and he isn't very good.
You said it best when you mentioned QB scouting. Since Eli, this team cannot scout QB’s. Every developmental QB under Eli never worked out. Jones looks over drafted.
The Giants passed on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson & Justin Herbert. “Well at least they didn’t draft Haskins” isn’t good enough. This franchise stinks at QB scouting.
Part of the problem is they have an antiquated perception of what the position is supposed to be. I'd bet anything they didn't have first round grades on Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray.
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
Quote:
In comment 15418389 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Jones is one of the problems in that a lot was spent to get him and he isn't very good.
You said it best when you mentioned QB scouting. Since Eli, this team cannot scout QB’s. Every developmental QB under Eli never worked out. Jones looks over drafted.
The Giants passed on Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson & Justin Herbert. “Well at least they didn’t draft Haskins” isn’t good enough. This franchise stinks at QB scouting.
Part of the problem is they have an antiquated perception of what the position is supposed to be. I'd bet anything they didn't have first round grades on Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray.
Can confirm they did not with Jackson.
Hollywood Brown
Hayden Hurst
Nick Boyle
Seth Roberts
Miles Boykin.
Spare me the excuses Jones needs everyone healthy
Sitting here watching the Seahawks and Steelers, with the ghost of Big Ben running the Steelers. Seeing the Hawks crowd the LOS because they know Ben’s arm is shot and just dare him to throw short and beat them. The Steelers D looks solid enough and the offense has some weapons, even with losing one WR last week.
I wonder if the Steelers would take a chance on Jones. He likely isn’t a long term solution for them, but he might be the bridge guy until he gets expensive. This year’s QB college crop isn’t going to get it done for them.
Maybe the Giants can get a conditional pick for Jones from Pitt. Won’t be a day 1 and most likely not a day 2 pick. But right now, Jones isn’t going to be the long term answer and the Giants need draft picks to rebuild. Could the Giants get a 4th that could become a 3rd if he meets some conditions?
Hollywood Brown
Hayden Hurst
Nick Boyle
Seth Roberts
Miles Boykin.
Spare me the excuses Jones needs everyone healthy
As someone who advocated for Lamar that year, are you saying there is anything close in terms of coaching, personnel, culture between Bal and Nyg?
Quote:
In comment 15418264 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
The first game Lamar Jackson started in the NFL, three-fifths of his offensive line was Ronnie Stanley, Mashal Yanda, and Orlando Brown Jr. He’s got a GREAT head coach. In Jackson’s first full season as starter, they hired Greg Roman, who did a great job designing the offense under Harbaugh for a resurgent Alex Smith and Super Bowl starter Colin Kaepernick.
None of these successful young QBs has seen a situation even remotely as close to the disaster that the Giants are. Heck, look at the numbers Ekeler, Allen, and Williams put up the year before Justin Herbert took over.
Maybe the Giants can get a conditional pick for Jones from Pitt. Won’t be a day 1 and most likely not a day 2 pick. But right now, Jones isn’t going to be the long term answer and the Giants need draft picks to rebuild. Could the Giants get a 4th that could become a 3rd if he meets some conditions?
The comp has to be Darnold. If the Jets can get a second for SD, I have to imagine we could get the same for Jones.
Quote:
In comment 15418326 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15418264 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
The first game Lamar Jackson started in the NFL, three-fifths of his offensive line was Ronnie Stanley, Mashal Yanda, and Orlando Brown Jr. He’s got a GREAT head coach. In Jackson’s first full season as starter, they hired Greg Roman, who did a great job designing the offense under Harbaugh for a resurgent Alex Smith and Super Bowl starter Colin Kaepernick.
None of these successful young QBs has seen a situation even remotely as close to the disaster that the Giants are. Heck, look at the numbers Ekeler, Allen, and Williams put up the year before Justin Herbert took over.
but it's not just his record, which is bad. And it's not just his stats, which are bad. he looks like garbage, he doesn't look anything close to Herbert. Herbert is better in every single regard.
Quote:
In comment 15418326 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15418264 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And my problem with so many of the Jones truthers is their feeling that Jones is the only quarterback to have adversity around him. The effort to blame everything else for his mediocrity is too much.
He wasn't exceptional at Duke. Why would he be exceptional in the NFL?
You could surround him with much better talent - the problematic traits would still be there.
He is not a first round talent. He never was. That was evident about 10 games into his rookie year.
It's just not there with him.
What is Lamar Jackson’s adversity? What was Dak’s? What was Mahomes’?
Like I said in another thread. Jones has the same record in his 33 career starts that Eli had in his final 33 career starts. The issues include, but extend far beyond the QB.
For starters Lamar’s receivers are never healthy either. Lamar won an MVP already, and still had to deal with the criticism of if he could be a good enough passer. Then he went out this year and improved that and his probably going to win his second MVP in his short career.
Put Jones on the Ravens is he winning two MVPs?
The first game Lamar Jackson started in the NFL, three-fifths of his offensive line was Ronnie Stanley, Mashal Yanda, and Orlando Brown Jr. He’s got a GREAT head coach. In Jackson’s first full season as starter, they hired Greg Roman, who did a great job designing the offense under Harbaugh for a resurgent Alex Smith and Super Bowl starter Colin Kaepernick.
None of these successful young QBs has seen a situation even remotely as close to the disaster that the Giants are. Heck, look at the numbers Ekeler, Allen, and Williams put up the year before Justin Herbert took over.
Jackson has improved his game each year, and not just marginally either. What does Jones do better than he did Year 1? The answer is nothing.
no. the Ravens offense would be predictable and shitty.
Well, LJax has one. ;)
Hollywood Brown
Hayden Hurst
Nick Boyle
Seth Roberts
Miles Boykin.
Spare me the excuses Jones needs everyone healthy
Actually he does need a surrounding cast.
DJ is not Lamar Jackson.
Why is that difficult to understand.
We drafted a player with the upside of Alex Smith (who was the first overall pick). That's not a elite QB.
So yes he does need help not only with cast but in from the coaching staff.
Not everyone is going to be Mahomes/Rodgers/Allen/Jackson.
Someone said it best above - he's probably not going to make it here but never really had a chance.
If you could get a 2nd for him in the offseason and wanted to draft Corral - I think you have to do it.
This mindset however that any of these other young QBs could be dropped into this situation and be successful is just foolish IMO. This isn’t the NBA and none of those guys, Mahomes included, is LeBron. So much went into the development of these players that you guys don’t give these organizations credit for. And not a single one has dealt with a train wreck the likes of this Giants organization. Maybe Jones wasn’t good enough to begin with. But there is no “good enough” to overcome this mess. We saw what the Giants did to build a team around Eli. The same guy who drafted Jones failed him at every turn. Why would it have been different with Josh Allen?
"The rest of the team sucks too" is not an argument in support of moving forward with Daniel Jones.
The smart move is to trade him ASAP. That also applies to every other player on the roster. If a guy can be traded within the constraints of the cap and there is a willing partner, then that guy should be traded.
Amass as many picks and accelerate as much cap pain as possible.
Quote:
One more year for DJ. But the coaching staff and GM have to go
This sounds like John Mara levels of idiocy. If you're brining in a new coaching staff and new GM, why wouldn't you let them pick their QB?
Totally amazing how crazy this place goes for jones. So we're replacing the coaches (yet again) ; the oc; the gm; the oline; the vp of player personnel but Daniel Jones get's to stay?????? This is the POV around here? OK I have to go to earth now
I agree with you. I am ok with not drafting someone in round 1 since I’m not picking a QB just to pick one. That’s why we have Jones.
Time to look at some backups or reclamation projects..
Trubisky
Mariotta
Mason Rudolph
Tyrod Taylor
Jimmy G maybe?!?
Brissett
This mindset however that any of these other young QBs could be dropped into this situation and be successful is just foolish IMO. This isn’t the NBA and none of those guys, Mahomes included, is LeBron. So much went into the development of these players that you guys don’t give these organizations credit for. And not a single one has dealt with a train wreck the likes of this Giants organization. Maybe Jones wasn’t good enough to begin with. But there is no “good enough” to overcome this mess. We saw what the Giants did to build a team around Eli. The same guy who drafted Jones failed him at every turn. Why would it have been different with Josh Allen?
In the modern NFL, the QB is like LeBron. He isn't one of 11 or one of 22. The QB is somewhere between 20 to 30%.
Cutting Jones doesn’t make financial sense, so if he continues to play like he has and they cannot find a trade partner, he’s a suitable backup.
This is the Trubisky scenario, which is my big fear on how this all plays out.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
Kirk Cousins? Look, Cousins may not be Peyton Manning but he's at a level Jones is unlikely to reach.
I was wrong to the upside on Eli. Eli put up the second most TDs in 2005 and led a good offense.
I don't see that potential in Jones. Eli on his best days was as good as anyone. I don't think Jones is.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
Regarding the Giants, he's still on a rookie deal so if whoever is making the decisions at that time doesn't see a longterm solution this offseason, he makes just as much or more sense than any other bridge QB. Too many variables right now though, we have no idea who the GM is or if Judge will still be the coach. My preference has always been a consistent clean sweep so despite liking and believing in Jones potential as a good starting QB, if he needs to be collateral damage in a sweeping change then so be it. I don't see the type of upside necessary to cling to a guy that probably needs stability to be successful. That ain't us. This franchise is in bad shape and it's probably time to flush all of it - good, bad or neutral. On the other side of the coin, I don't see a need to force a change while he's still on a reasonable contract. The Giants should take the same approach the Jets took last offseason with Darnold basically.
I think he's a winning QB there. They won with Joe Flacco.
Like what? A top 10 draft pick? While I agree Jones is not a #6 pick, by the looks of things we will be in no short supply of top 10 picks in the immediate future. Also assuming Jalen hurts was properly drafted in the 2nd round; if you could tomorrow would you really trade for him?
At this point the Giants have no choice but to rally around Jones. You cannot go back in time and pick differently and there is nothing on the free agent market or the upcoming draft that is better.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
Quote:
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
That's ok. However, you don't waste draft and free agent capital giving him "weapons" that he is unable to/doesn't know how to utilize. You trade Golladay, Engram and cut Shepard and his under 10 yards per catch and 9 million dollars. You spend the draft and free agent capital on run blockers (whether they can pass block or not is not relevant), running backs and defense. Jones' role then becomes handing off and trying not to fuck things up. He gets paid accordingly. If he doesn't like it, he can walk because you can get that elsewhere.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
While I am not exactly disagreeing with you -- you can't trade Golladay. It would just look stupid since you just signed him and he still needs someone to throw to. i am sure no one really has a probelm cutting shep ; trading engram etc if you believe Jones is a career benchwarmer or going to be Aaron Rodgers.