IDGAF if Jones ever starts another game for the Giants.
This mindset however that any of these other young QBs could be dropped into this situation and be successful is just foolish IMO. This isn’t the NBA and none of those guys, Mahomes included, is LeBron. So much went into the development of these players that you guys don’t give these organizations credit for. And not a single one has dealt with a train wreck the likes of this Giants organization. Maybe Jones wasn’t good enough to begin with. But there is no “good enough” to overcome this mess. We saw what the Giants did to build a team around Eli. The same guy who drafted Jones failed him at every turn. Why would it have been different with Josh Allen?
In the modern NFL, the QB is like LeBron. He isn't one of 11 or one of 22. The QB is somewhere between 20 to 30%.
I think those trade parameters work for a DJ trade.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
RE: I think Jones is better than Darnold with more upside
I think those trade parameters work for a DJ trade.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
Kirk Cousins? Look, Cousins may not be Peyton Manning but he's at a level Jones is unlikely to reach.
Once that happened he was right back in the same position he was in all last season. No weapons. If anything he proved he can't carry a team by himself. It's too soon to give up on him IMO. Yes this season is another disaster. I really wish the Giants could pull wins out of their asses but that's not how it works in the NFL.
Many people had said the same regarding Eli after his 2nd
loss to undrafted Romo during the 2007 season. A lot said Eli would never deliver a championship to NY. Afterwards he had a 4 int. loss to Vikings and bad loss to Washington before clinching the playoffs with the win over the Bills and playing a very good game against the undefeated Pats to end the season. During the playoffs something seemed to clicked and the incredible run to the defeat of the 18-0 Patriots cemented his legacy. Many forgot he led the league in interceptions that year.
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
I've had a sneaky feeling that he will have success with his 2nd team for a little bit now and he might just be on that path now.
Regarding the Giants, he's still on a rookie deal so if whoever is making the decisions at that time doesn't see a longterm solution this offseason, he makes just as much or more sense than any other bridge QB. Too many variables right now though, we have no idea who the GM is or if Judge will still be the coach. My preference has always been a consistent clean sweep so despite liking and believing in Jones potential as a good starting QB, if he needs to be collateral damage in a sweeping change then so be it. I don't see the type of upside necessary to cling to a guy that probably needs stability to be successful. That ain't us. This franchise is in bad shape and it's probably time to flush all of it - good, bad or neutral. On the other side of the coin, I don't see a need to force a change while he's still on a reasonable contract. The Giants should take the same approach the Jets took last offseason with Darnold basically.
Jones is one of the problems in that a lot was spent to get him and he isn't very good.
Like what? A top 10 draft pick? While I agree Jones is not a #6 pick, by the looks of things we will be in no short supply of top 10 picks in the immediate future. Also assuming Jalen hurts was properly drafted in the 2nd round; if you could tomorrow would you really trade for him?
At this point the Giants have no choice but to rally around Jones. You cannot go back in time and pick differently and there is nothing on the free agent market or the upcoming draft that is better.
RE: Jones probably doesn't justify his draft status
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
That's ok. However, you don't waste draft and free agent capital giving him "weapons" that he is unable to/doesn't know how to utilize. You trade Golladay, Engram and cut Shepard and his under 10 yards per catch and 9 million dollars. You spend the draft and free agent capital on run blockers (whether they can pass block or not is not relevant), running backs and defense. Jones' role then becomes handing off and trying not to fuck things up. He gets paid accordingly. If he doesn't like it, he can walk because you can get that elsewhere.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
RE: RE: Jones probably doesn't justify his draft status
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
That's ok. However, you don't waste draft and free agent capital giving him "weapons" that he is unable to/doesn't know how to utilize. You trade Golladay, Engram and cut Shepard and his under 10 yards per catch and 9 million dollars. You spend the draft and free agent capital on run blockers (whether they can pass block or not is not relevant), running backs and defense. Jones' role then becomes handing off and trying not to fuck things up. He gets paid accordingly. If he doesn't like it, he can walk because you can get that elsewhere.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
While I am not exactly disagreeing with you -- you can't trade Golladay. It would just look stupid since you just signed him and he still needs someone to throw to. i am sure no one really has a probelm cutting shep ; trading engram etc if you believe Jones is a career benchwarmer or going to be Aaron Rodgers.
This mindset however that any of these other young QBs could be dropped into this situation and be successful is just foolish IMO. This isn’t the NBA and none of those guys, Mahomes included, is LeBron. So much went into the development of these players that you guys don’t give these organizations credit for. And not a single one has dealt with a train wreck the likes of this Giants organization. Maybe Jones wasn’t good enough to begin with. But there is no “good enough” to overcome this mess. We saw what the Giants did to build a team around Eli. The same guy who drafted Jones failed him at every turn. Why would it have been different with Josh Allen?
In the modern NFL, the QB is like LeBron. He isn't one of 11 or one of 22. The QB is somewhere between 20 to 30%.
Cutting Jones doesn’t make financial sense, so if he continues to play like he has and they cannot find a trade partner, he’s a suitable backup.
This is the Trubisky scenario, which is my big fear on how this all plays out.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
For the Giants, it isn’t just how good Jones is but whether you want to do a rebuild while shouldering a vet QB cap number. That’s a higher bar to meet. If the QB is say Dan Marino, of course you do. But what if he is say Kirk Cousins? Looks like it’s time for a reboot.
Kirk Cousins? Look, Cousins may not be Peyton Manning but he's at a level Jones is unlikely to reach.
I was wrong to the upside on Eli. Eli put up the second most TDs in 2005 and led a good offense.
I don't see that potential in Jones. Eli on his best days was as good as anyone. I don't think Jones is.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
Regarding the Giants, he's still on a rookie deal so if whoever is making the decisions at that time doesn't see a longterm solution this offseason, he makes just as much or more sense than any other bridge QB. Too many variables right now though, we have no idea who the GM is or if Judge will still be the coach. My preference has always been a consistent clean sweep so despite liking and believing in Jones potential as a good starting QB, if he needs to be collateral damage in a sweeping change then so be it. I don't see the type of upside necessary to cling to a guy that probably needs stability to be successful. That ain't us. This franchise is in bad shape and it's probably time to flush all of it - good, bad or neutral. On the other side of the coin, I don't see a need to force a change while he's still on a reasonable contract. The Giants should take the same approach the Jets took last offseason with Darnold basically.
I think he's a winning QB there. They won with Joe Flacco.
Like what? A top 10 draft pick? While I agree Jones is not a #6 pick, by the looks of things we will be in no short supply of top 10 picks in the immediate future. Also assuming Jalen hurts was properly drafted in the 2nd round; if you could tomorrow would you really trade for him?
At this point the Giants have no choice but to rally around Jones. You cannot go back in time and pick differently and there is nothing on the free agent market or the upcoming draft that is better.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
Quote:
But he's an adequate NFL QB and I see no need to move on from him necessarily especially if there are no obvious upgrades in the draft.
Someone needs to play the position. Even if it's just a caretaker for a few years, Jones has shown that he's up to that task, IMO. He's not a Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder type or Dwayne Haskins for that matter.
That's ok. However, you don't waste draft and free agent capital giving him "weapons" that he is unable to/doesn't know how to utilize. You trade Golladay, Engram and cut Shepard and his under 10 yards per catch and 9 million dollars. You spend the draft and free agent capital on run blockers (whether they can pass block or not is not relevant), running backs and defense. Jones' role then becomes handing off and trying not to fuck things up. He gets paid accordingly. If he doesn't like it, he can walk because you can get that elsewhere.
Part of the problem here is a lack of focus and acting on self delusions (Barkley is a "generational" running back and Jones is a franchise qb) and acquiring players accordingly.
While I am not exactly disagreeing with you -- you can't trade Golladay. It would just look stupid since you just signed him and he still needs someone to throw to. i am sure no one really has a probelm cutting shep ; trading engram etc if you believe Jones is a career benchwarmer or going to be Aaron Rodgers.