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So let me see if I understand the POV here-- Jones stays but

Debaser : 10/17/2021 9:33 pm
...everyone including the coach; the oc; the oline; the defenseive coordinator; the TE; the vp of personel who also happens to own the team; the gm also,but jones who will be on his 3rd coach gets to stay? If you're really serious about this wouldn't this new Gm or VP player personel get to pick his QB too?
I would think the new coach get to do it  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 9:34 pm : link
.
I like Jones  
Bleedblue10 : 10/17/2021 9:35 pm : link
But if a new GM doesn’t think he’s the guy I’d be fine w that too. And I root hard for him and really want the kid to succeed. What we’re doing isn’t working Jones included
Judge and Jones will both be back on  
Ben in Tampa : 10/17/2021 9:35 pm : link
A one year leash and a (private) playoff mandate.

If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.
Not Sold on Jones  
Bob in Vt : 10/17/2021 9:37 pm : link
But this thread seems to be kind of a troll job arguing with no one
RE: Judge and Jones will both be back on  
Producer : 10/17/2021 9:38 pm : link
In comment 15418577 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
A one year leash and a (private) playoff mandate.

If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.


I understand what you say will probably happen but from my point of view it will mean the NY Giants will have wasted four years on a backup QB because they couldn't admit they made a mistake.
pick his QB from where?  
sphinx : 10/17/2021 9:43 pm : link
Draft? Doesn't seem to be a standout in a not so great class

Free Agency? I can't imagine the amount of money you would have to pay a top notch QB to come to this Giants team.

Trade? haha
RE: Judge and Jones will both be back on  
dpinzow : 10/17/2021 9:45 pm : link
In comment 15418577 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
A one year leash and a (private) playoff mandate.

If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.


That’s still saddling a new GM with a previous coach and QB for one season. The new GM will want his head coach from the start
you like jones i guess i like him too  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 9:46 pm : link
he showed a lot with a limited team today, at the same time he also seemed to show some things of a rough around the edges qb.

But it is just totally unrealistic to basically remove every element of this organization but keep Jones.
Only 2 choices.....burn it all down or stay the course  
George from PA : 10/17/2021 9:47 pm : link
Although, I directly blame the coaches for 2 losses.....I think replacing coaches every 2 years...dooms them to enternal garbage....i say....stay the course...one more year.

Hopefully the coaches learn from mistakes.

They figure out the problems and start winning.
Jones has 4 TDs...  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 9:47 pm : link
in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.


I’m gonna have my popcorn ready  
dancing blue bear : 10/17/2021 9:47 pm : link
For when the whole gang is back. NExt year. DG JJ DJ. Chris Mara Garrett graham tom Quinn. It’s gonna be great.
RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
FStubbs : 10/17/2021 9:48 pm : link
In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:
Quote:
in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.



And yet people groan when I say Jones is about the same level as Kent Graham.
I like DJ  
Keaton028 : 10/17/2021 10:05 pm : link
But I no longer want to saddle a new GM-HC combo with anyone. Let them choose their guys.
You cant just "get rid of Jones  
John In CO : 10/17/2021 10:13 pm : link
without having a viable replacement in mind. From what ive seen in CFB so far, NOT a great year, or even a good year, for QB's. Could someone emerge late? Sure...but if not, then we stand to make the same mistake on another QB that we did with Jones, which is taking a QB because you "have to" which leads to taking a guy high because he is the best of a bad group. So if the draft is out, that leaves FA or Trade, and if Jones has already been jettisoned, the Giants will be dealing from a position of desperation and will end up overpaying, either via $$$$ or draft picks. For me, im ok with Jones for now. I STILL want to see him with a healthy line in front of him, a full complement of WR and Barkley in the backfield. Use the draft picks to shore up the OL and find a friggin pass rusher..draft 5 or 6 of them if you have to, but find one!
RE: RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 10:16 pm : link
In comment 15418598 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:


Quote:


in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.





And yet people groan when I say Jones is about the same level as Kent Graham.


You know, I watch every press conference and Jones is a really good guy and actually easy to root for. But there is this hole in his game - a huge hole - where he just can't finish drives. It started last year and has continued into this year.

So if your QB can't execute that key part of his job why should he continue to play?

RE: You cant just  
Angel Eyes : 10/17/2021 10:17 pm : link
In comment 15418610 John In CO said:
Quote:
without having a viable replacement in mind. From what ive seen in CFB so far, NOT a great year, or even a good year, for QB's. Could someone emerge late? Sure...but if not, then we stand to make the same mistake on another QB that we did with Jones, which is taking a QB because you "have to" which leads to taking a guy high because he is the best of a bad group. So if the draft is out, that leaves FA or Trade, and if Jones has already been jettisoned, the Giants will be dealing from a position of desperation and will end up overpaying, either via $$$$ or draft picks. For me, im ok with Jones for now. I STILL want to see him with a healthy line in front of him, a full complement of WR and Barkley in the backfield. Use the draft picks to shore up the OL and find a friggin pass rusher..draft 5 or 6 of them if you have to, but find one!

+1. We have a lot of holes in the roster than just Jones.
RE: You cant just  
WillVAB : 10/17/2021 10:22 pm : link
In comment 15418610 John In CO said:
Quote:
without having a viable replacement in mind. From what ive seen in CFB so far, NOT a great year, or even a good year, for QB's. Could someone emerge late? Sure...but if not, then we stand to make the same mistake on another QB that we did with Jones, which is taking a QB because you "have to" which leads to taking a guy high because he is the best of a bad group. So if the draft is out, that leaves FA or Trade, and if Jones has already been jettisoned, the Giants will be dealing from a position of desperation and will end up overpaying, either via $$$$ or draft picks. For me, im ok with Jones for now. I STILL want to see him with a healthy line in front of him, a full complement of WR and Barkley in the backfield. Use the draft picks to shore up the OL and find a friggin pass rusher..draft 5 or 6 of them if you have to, but find one!


This. The Giants need to focus the draft on solidifying the foundation of the team, the trenches. I don’t have a strong opinion either way of Jones but this doesn’t look like the draft to search for his replacement. If Jones sucks in 22, draft his replacement in 23. At least the core will be set for the new guy if Jones proves he isn’t the guy.
RE: Not Sold on Jones  
BillT : 10/17/2021 10:24 pm : link
In comment 15418579 Bob in Vt said:
Quote:
But this thread seems to be kind of a troll job arguing with no one

Ya think?
Let's face it none of these ideas are realistic  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 10:32 pm : link
It is an odd coincidence that mara who was a scout? became vp in 2011 and it has been down hill from there, but he is not going anywhere.

None of these guys are going anywhere. Not Garrett and not judge. Who btw I am pretty sure all he did was ask BB what play he wanted to run on kickoff and the like. But he'll be back too.

RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
BestFeature : 10/17/2021 10:32 pm : link
In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:
Quote:
in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.



Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.
barklley will too  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 10:35 pm : link
with his new decamillion contract. Some insider will get promoted when getlleman retires too.

But what was mara's role before 2011? He was still there was he not? He really just gave reese a scouting report and had no say in player decisions?
Unless we draft a QB early next year,  
Jerry in_DC : 10/17/2021 10:37 pm : link
I'm fine with Jones playing another year. I'd be fine with moving him too. It doesn't really matter - we're not going to be good next year regardless.

Say we sign a vet placeholder - what does that really do? Most of those guys are in a tier with Jones. It doesn't make us much better or worse. None of them have real upside. So I'm not going to get too worked up about the Jones situation for 22.

What does matter thought is the longer term. If Mara and co talk themselves into extending Jones, then we've got a big problem. In that regard, I'd be more comfortable if we moved on from Jones quickly, but if we're just talking about 2022, it doesn't matter who the QB is (again, assuming we're not using a high pick at QB).
RE: RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 10:38 pm : link
In comment 15418625 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:


Quote:


in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.





Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.


Alot of that was garbage time. They lost a lot of games and I remember them always playing from behind 2 scores late
RE: barklley will too  
FStubbs : 10/17/2021 10:40 pm : link
In comment 15418628 Debaser said:
Quote:
with his new decamillion contract. Some insider will get promoted when getlleman retires too.

But what was mara's role before 2011? He was still there was he not? He really just gave reese a scouting report and had no say in player decisions?


Well, Chris Mara on 2 separate occasions tried to be a GM, once of the Giants (we promoted Reese) and once of the Atlanta Falcons (I think the other Maras convinced him not to join another organization).

I think before his promotion he was just another voice on the committee, but afterward, he was effectively co-equal with the GM. (which, also being an owner, meant he was now more powerful than the GM).
Glennon? I liked the idea when I though jones was hurt  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 10:44 pm : link
but he would've gotten killed today out there w like 4 picks
RE: RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 10:45 pm : link
In comment 15418625 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:


Quote:


in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.





Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.


Does 2019 have an expiration date as a pro? We're almost two years out now...

I do defend Garrett. Not because I think he's great but because I don't think Jones is...
RE: Unless we draft a QB early next year,  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 10:49 pm : link
In comment 15418632 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
I'm fine with Jones playing another year. I'd be fine with moving him too. It doesn't really matter - we're not going to be good next year regardless.



Why can't we be better with a better QB?

There are a lot of pieces here that a good QB could produce with...
RE: You cant just  
endwerc : 10/17/2021 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15418610 John In CO said:
Quote:
without having a viable replacement in mind. From what ive seen in CFB so far, NOT a great year, or even a good year, for QB's. Could someone emerge late? Sure...but if not, then we stand to make the same mistake on another QB that we did with Jones, which is taking a QB because you "have to" which leads to taking a guy high because he is the best of a bad group. So if the draft is out, that leaves FA or Trade, and if Jones has already been jettisoned, the Giants will be dealing from a position of desperation and will end up overpaying, either via $$$$ or draft picks. For me, im ok with Jones for now. I STILL want to see him with a healthy line in front of him, a full complement of WR and Barkley in the backfield. Use the draft picks to shore up the OL and find a friggin pass rusher..draft 5 or 6 of them if you have to, but find one!


"Viable" replacement? We can finish last in the division with literally anyone.
RE: RE: barklley will too  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 10:50 pm : link
Quote:


Well, Chris Mara on 2 separate occasions tried to be a GM, once of the Giants (we promoted Reese) and once of the Atlanta Falcons (I think the other Maras convinced him not to join another organization).

I think before his promotion he was just another voice on the committee, but afterward, he was effectively co-equal with the GM. (which, also being an owner, meant he was now more powerful than the GM).


Thanks for answering
Who is going to be better?  
Jerry in_DC : 10/17/2021 10:55 pm : link
(that we could reasonably get). I don't think Jones is good, but I don't think he's measurably worse than any of the stopgap solutions. Bridgewater, Trubisky, Mariota, Jimmy G, Brisset?

I'm not talking about winning 7 or 8 games. I'm interested in being a team that can win playoff games. I just don't see it happening with Jones or any reasonably available QBs.
The issue I see  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/17/2021 10:55 pm : link
Is you have 5 premium picks through round 3. That can change the outlook of the franchise. BPA .

Judge stays with the same front office staff excluding Dave are we certain we are drafting the BPA or need players to fit the current coaching staffs needs based on the same drafting protocols currently used.

Again, what type of team are the Giants trying to construct?
RE: RE: Unless we draft a QB early next year,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/17/2021 10:56 pm : link
In comment 15418643 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15418632 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


I'm fine with Jones playing another year. I'd be fine with moving him too. It doesn't really matter - we're not going to be good next year regardless.





Why can't we be better with a better QB?

There are a lot of pieces here that a good QB could produce with...


Absolutely delusional.
RE: Who is going to be better?  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 10:57 pm : link
In comment 15418648 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
(that we could reasonably get). I don't think Jones is good, but I don't think he's measurably worse than any of the stopgap solutions. Bridgewater, Trubisky, Mariota, Jimmy G, Brisset?

I'm not talking about winning 7 or 8 games. I'm interested in being a team that can win playoff games. I just don't see it happening with Jones or any reasonably available QBs.


Russell Wilson will be expendable in Seattle. And we have an extra first this year.
why does everyone hate garapolo  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 11:04 pm : link
he is a Super bowl choker but, this team ain't going there any time soon. He would be a patriot if not for brady / kraft's father son relationship or whatever. Good enuf for bb
RE: why does everyone hate garapolo  
Producer : 10/17/2021 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15418662 Debaser said:
Quote:
he is a Super bowl choker but, this team ain't going there any time soon. He would be a patriot if not for brady / kraft's father son relationship or whatever. Good enuf for bb


Garoppolo isn't very good. Shanny knows he's limited which is why they paid so much to move up to #3 for Lance.
RE: RE: Who is going to be better?  
Jerry in_DC : 10/17/2021 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15418653 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15418648 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


(that we could reasonably get). I don't think Jones is good, but I don't think he's measurably worse than any of the stopgap solutions. Bridgewater, Trubisky, Mariota, Jimmy G, Brisset?

I'm not talking about winning 7 or 8 games. I'm interested in being a team that can win playoff games. I just don't see it happening with Jones or any reasonably available QBs.

Russell Wilson will be expendable in Seattle. And we have an extra first this year.


He is certainly (a lot) better, but I do not like that idea at all. Maybe you have a higher view of the talent on this roster than I do. I think this team is terrible all around. No doubt, we'd win more games with Wilson, but getting him at age 33? I just don't see that going anywhere good. Maybe 2 9-8 seasons? That doesn't do it for me.
RE: why does everyone hate garapolo  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 11:11 pm : link
In comment 15418662 Debaser said:
Quote:
he is a Super bowl choker but, this team ain't going there any time soon. He would be a patriot if not for brady / kraft's father son relationship or whatever. Good enuf for bb


It's too soon to know what's going to happen in the QB market. Maybe the Raiders decide to move on from Carr.
RE: RE: RE: Who is going to be better?  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 11:14 pm : link
In comment 15418667 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:

He is certainly (a lot) better, but I do not like that idea at all. Maybe you have a higher view of the talent on this roster than I do. I think this team is terrible all around. No doubt, we'd win more games with Wilson, but getting him at age 33? I just don't see that going anywhere good. Maybe 2 9-8 seasons? That doesn't do it for me.


The guy has made a lot of chicken salad for a decade in Seattle. He's just one of those rare talents who can lift the play of others. It's an incredible attribute.

What's wrong with 33? In this day and age, 33 is basically 28. Wilson can easily play another 5+. Easily.
RE: RE: Unless we draft a QB early next year,  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 10/17/2021 11:15 pm : link
In comment 15418643 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15418632 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


I'm fine with Jones playing another year. I'd be fine with moving him too. It doesn't really matter - we're not going to be good next year regardless.





Why can't we be better with a better QB?

There are a lot of pieces here that a good QB could produce with...


And what pieces are those? Which were on the field today? Shepard is basically a JAG and injury waiting to happen who has never broken 1000 yards. Engram? Toney looked great last week, but of course is injured again. So who are these pieces that are magically not going to be injured for another QB?

I'm a fan of Jones only because I'm a fan of the Giants. I don't think he's the guy, but it'd be disingenuous to pretend that he's actually had a chance to play with all of these pieces you seem to claim another QB would find success with. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but good god I don't think I've ever seen an offense missing 7 projected starters including 3 OL and 3 of the top 4 WRs in only the 6th week of the season.
I don't care if we have zero pieces around the QB  
Go Terps : 10/17/2021 11:18 pm : link
If the QB can be improved upon, we should do it.

And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.
RE: RE: RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
GMen72 : 10/17/2021 11:18 pm : link
In comment 15418642 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15418625 BestFeature said:


Quote:


In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:


Quote:


in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.





Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.



Does 2019 have an expiration date as a pro? We're almost two years out now...

I do defend Garrett. Not because I think he's great but because I don't think Jones is...


This is the 2nd time Garrett has failed as an OC...so, not sure what there is to defend? I'm not sure DJ is a franchise QB, but he'd be better without Garrett's dink and dunk, sissy playcalling.
RE: I don't care if we have zero pieces around the QB  
FStubbs : 10/17/2021 11:21 pm : link
In comment 15418686 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If the QB can be improved upon, we should do it.

And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.


Like I've said, I think Jones is about as good as Kent Graham was.
Cap'n Bluebeard...  
bw in dc : 10/17/2021 11:24 pm : link
Wilson is a first ballot lock Hall of Famer. Agreed? And a legitimate, great dual threat.

Are you telling me he couldn't create more wins than Jones?

He has played with horrendous OLs in Seattle and dragged them into the playoffs. You can't see him doing similar work here?
RE: RE: I don't care if we have zero pieces around the QB  
Go Terps : 10/17/2021 11:27 pm : link
In comment 15418693 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15418686 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If the QB can be improved upon, we should do it.

And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.



Like I've said, I think Jones is about as good as Kent Graham was.


He's definitely a backup level NFL QB. Nothing wrong with that - it's a really difficult thing to do.

What is wrong is the idiots that drafted him solely because they didn't want to get off the Eli Manning ride and they wanted something that looked and felt similar.

All you have to know is Gettleman praised Jones's pocket presence the day he drafted him. Tells you everything about Gettleman's evaluation skills.

Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.

Trade him ASAP.
RE: RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
djm : 10/17/2021 11:29 pm : link
In comment 15418598 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:


Quote:


in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.

Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.

If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.





And yet people groan when I say Jones is about the same level as Kent Graham.


Cmon. That’s more than a groan.
RE: RE: RE: I don't care if we have zero pieces around the QB  
Producer : 10/17/2021 11:31 pm : link
In comment 15418704 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15418693 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 15418686 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If the QB can be improved upon, we should do it.

And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.



Like I've said, I think Jones is about as good as Kent Graham was.



He's definitely a backup level NFL QB. Nothing wrong with that - it's a really difficult thing to do.

What is wrong is the idiots that drafted him solely because they didn't want to get off the Eli Manning ride and they wanted something that looked and felt similar.

All you have to know is Gettleman praised Jones's pocket presence the day he drafted him. Tells you everything about Gettleman's evaluation skills.

Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.

Trade him ASAP.


I wouldn't mind it but I don't think you're getting much for him. I don't think the Steelers would be a buyer. But maybe a late 3rd or a 4th. Most likely we'll ride him until we find somebody to replace him or the end of the fifth year. We really screwed up not drafting Herbert. That's what we want. That caliber of player.
RE: RE: RE: I don't care if we have zero pieces around the QB  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 11:35 pm : link

Quote:


Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.

Trade him ASAP.


You wish they are not signing him. They are. And how is Jones a depreciating asset? If anything he is an appreciating asset. He has a lot of upside potential. You really don't know if this is it for Jones. And it doesn't matter ; he isn't going anywhere.

So realistically you are looking at no changes to this team. Bark will be here so will Jones and Judge. Gettle might retire. I can see maybe getting rid of garrett but not really.
A third round pick is not nothing  
Go Terps : 10/17/2021 11:36 pm : link
If that's what he nets, that's what he nets.

Everything that isn't bolted down should be traded for future assets. And the easiest players to trade are gonna be the guys still in their rookie contracts... Basically everyone drafted since 2018. Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, Hernandez...these guys don't have much value to the Goats beyond what they can net in trade.

It's about timelines now as much as anything else.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't care if we have zero pieces around the QB  
Producer : 10/17/2021 11:39 pm : link
In comment 15418713 Debaser said:
Quote:



Quote:




Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.

Trade him ASAP.



You wish they are not signing him. They are. And how is Jones a depreciating asset? If anything he is an appreciating asset. He has a lot of upside potential. You really don't know if this is it for Jones. And it doesn't matter ; he isn't going anywhere.

So realistically you are looking at no changes to this team. Bark will be here so will Jones and Judge. Gettle might retire. I can see maybe getting rid of garrett but not really.


I'm not so sure they are signing him. I think it is very likely they pick up the 5th year. But I'm not expecting an extension at this rate.
I think they are  
Debaser : 10/17/2021 11:51 pm : link
and jones survives another coach. Which would we weird that a 2nd coach will inherit jones but, that will happen too if they firew judge 2 years from now.
RE: Jones has 4 TDs...  
giantstock : 10/18/2021 12:14 am : link
In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:
Quote:


If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.



Stop embarrassing yourself with a post like this. You're much better than that.

Okay to move on from Jones but going with Glennon other than 1 game benching if that's what you meant is fine- but anything else is just ridiculous.
Honestly  
Johnny5 : 10/18/2021 12:14 am : link
Who the fuck really cares anymore? This team sucks and clearly will suck for the foreseeable (or unforeseeable) future. Who cares? Blow it up, don't. I really don't give a shit anymore.
RE: I don't care if we have zero pieces around the QB  
giantstock : 10/18/2021 12:19 am : link
In comment 15418686 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If the QB can be improved upon, we should do it.

And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.


Who?

Not arguing but who? And what are you giving up and how many games are you expecting to win when you get the QB?

You've been one of the biggest posters to shit on Jones, so offer an alternative instead of cliche. What's the Qb going to cost and how many wins will the Giants get as an estimate? Again- not arguing.
How many wins will they get, when?  
Go Terps : 10/18/2021 12:31 am : link
This year? Next?

If I'm running the Giants I'm trading Jones now and drafting Matt Corral with one of my first round picks (I expect we'll be picking top five).

If Corral is gone I'm thinking about Willis (though I'm not there yet with him).

But there will be options.
RE: How many wins will they get, when?  
giantstock : 10/18/2021 3:01 am : link
In comment 15418749 Go Terps said:
Quote:
This year? Next?

If I'm running the Giants I'm trading Jones now and drafting Matt Corral with one of my first round picks (I expect we'll be picking top five).

If Corral is gone I'm thinking about Willis (though I'm not there yet with him).

But there will be options.


I'm not os sure about Carrol. Here's a few negatives I've heard and tell me if you think it sounds familiar?

1-- Tends to not hit receivers in stride instead behind.

2--- Will force plays jamming through lanes that he shouldn't try.

3-- Reluctant to take checkdowns.

4-- Will take too many sacks holding onto ball.

5--- Will lock onto receivers.
=================

Why get this QB unless you think he is elite?

The team sucks so bad by the time he is ready you'd have blown his inexpensive years.

You have said the OL sucks, right? You know the defense sucks right? SO unless this QB is elite - what's the point?



That’ll be up to them  
jeff57 : 10/18/2021 5:45 am : link
And by who else is available, through draft or trade.
RE: That’ll be up to them  
Justlurking : 10/18/2021 8:01 am : link
In comment 15418787 jeff57 said:
Quote:
And by who else is available, through draft or trade.


Seriously. If jones is best option he stays if not he goes.
RE: Judge and Jones will both be back on  
bluewave : 10/18/2021 8:01 am : link
In comment 15418577 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
A one year leash and a (private) playoff mandate.

If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.


Best take I've heard and the one most likely to happen.
RE: Judge and Jones will both be back on  
EricJ : 10/18/2021 8:18 am : link
In comment 15418577 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
A one year leash and a (private) playoff mandate.

If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.


This is how and why it never works out. Hire a guy and then tell him what he must do or not do.

If we hire the GM, he should be allowed to immediately fire the coach and draft or trade for a new QB to minutes after getting into his new seat.

Otherwise, this is John Mara meddling again.
What????  
Debaser : 10/18/2021 9:09 am : link
So a new GM is going to come inn and step in someone else's shit and clean up their mess?

And not get to hire the 2 most imprtant pieces-- the coach and the QB? So what he is going to go through this roster of JV players and try and decide who gets cut. That is not a new GM that is a new recruiting scout.
RE: What????  
giantstock : 10/18/2021 9:24 am : link
In comment 15418993 Debaser said:
Quote:
So a new GM is going to come inn and step in someone else's shit and clean up their mess?

And not get to hire the 2 most imprtant pieces-- the coach and the QB? So what he is going to go through this roster of JV players and try and decide who gets cut. That is not a new GM that is a new recruiting scout.


You're absolutely right. The new GM should be able to do what he wants.

Though I fear what's going to happen is that because they are playing a weaker schedule in 2nd half, they'll win some games and then the Giants will make awful decisions/mandates again.
RE: Cap'n Bluebeard...  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 10/18/2021 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15418699 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Wilson is a first ballot lock Hall of Famer. Agreed? And a legitimate, great dual threat.

Are you telling me he couldn't create more wins than Jones?

He has played with horrendous OLs in Seattle and dragged them into the playoffs. You can't see him doing similar work here?


Create more wins? Not with this defense, no. I think our offense would probably improve because Wilson is far and away a better QB. But I don't think even Wilson would make Barkley hit the hole decisively (or stay healthy), Engram not tip passes to the defense, or have the WRs drop them.

I want to be clear that I think Jones is probably a mid-low level starter/very good backup QB in this league. I think a player like Mahomes, or Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers, whoever would absolutely improve the offense, though I question by how much given all of the other gaping holes. Do I think that means we would win more? With this defense? Probably not. I don't think there's a QB in this universe who makes this roster a viable playoff team.
Wilson is elusive  
Thegratefulhead : 10/18/2021 3:20 pm : link
He can create.

Wilson would elevate all of these receivers, maybe Engram the most. Jones is fast but not elusive at all. Wilson, creates time and big plays. Wilson has a red zone game.

I believe Shurmur put a one read, simple system in place that would make QB stats look good but not result in wins. It was smoke and mirrors in Jones rookie year.

Jones has gotten to the Red Zone often in the last 2 years.

It is statistically relevant to say Jones is poor in Red Zone efficiency. His best play is the QB draw down there.

Unfortunately, the Saints game was an outlier.

Jones is going to have another good game.

No one should care at all until he consistently gets TDs in the red zone.

Here is the deal.

It is harder and faster in the red zone.

Jones is not up to it.

He can't burn the zero either.

Big problem.




RE: Wilson is elusive  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 10/19/2021 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15419971 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
He can create.

Wilson would elevate all of these receivers, maybe Engram the most.



This is where posts generally lose me. A QB like Wilson can create, sure. Absolutely. He can buy time and find the open man, or allow a covered receiver to shake open. He can make the correct read, or know when to deviate from what he thought his read order should have been pre-snap and go with what the defense is actually doing post-snap to find the open guy. Maybe he can make his line look better by sliding in the pocket or escaping out of a collapsing one.

But what does "elevate" the players around him mean? You use Even Engram as an example. The dude is a fantastic athlete, but how exactly is Wilson going to make Even Engram have consistent hands? I won't go so far as to say Engram has stone hands because he makes some Level 10 difficulty catches, but the dude also tips passes right between the numbers to opposing defenses on the regular. As Sy said in his review, Shepard had two drops in the game and at least one was a pass that would have gotten stuck in his facemask if it didn't hit him in both hands. How does Wilson "elevate" Shepard to make a routine catch? How does Wilson make Toney make the easy 3rd down catch he dropped early in the game last week vs. Dallas? Or any other number of drops Giants receivers have had this season? They happen no matter who is throwing the ball. "Elevating" players, outside of maybe making the OL look slightly better, is a myth.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Once again, to be absolutely crystal clear: I don't think Jones is the guy. But nobody is turning guys like Engram, who almost seem to drop the ball or tip it directly to defenders as often as the catch it, into legitimate All-Pros.
I am fine keeping Jones in place if there is no QB to draft in 2022  
Jimmy Googs : 10/20/2021 12:10 am : link
Bring in a vet that isn’t Glendon to compete for a starting job. Jones doesn’t get extended and we wait it out until 2023 for a QB using draft picks to improve starters in other areas.

And if by chance a talented vet becomes available like Stafford did, then make a move.

Stop worrying about time frames...they are in a abyss and need to climb out.
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