...everyone including the coach; the oc; the oline; the defenseive coordinator; the TE; the vp of personel who also happens to own the team; the gm also,but jones who will be on his 3rd coach gets to stay? If you're really serious about this wouldn't this new Gm or VP player personel get to pick his QB too?
If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.
If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.
I understand what you say will probably happen but from my point of view it will mean the NY Giants will have wasted four years on a backup QB because they couldn't admit they made a mistake.
Free Agency? I can't imagine the amount of money you would have to pay a top notch QB to come to this Giants team.
Trade? haha
If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.
That’s still saddling a new GM with a previous coach and QB for one season. The new GM will want his head coach from the start
But it is just totally unrealistic to basically remove every element of this organization but keep Jones.
Hopefully the coaches learn from mistakes.
They figure out the problems and start winning.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
And yet people groan when I say Jones is about the same level as Kent Graham.
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in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
And yet people groan when I say Jones is about the same level as Kent Graham.
You know, I watch every press conference and Jones is a really good guy and actually easy to root for. But there is this hole in his game - a huge hole - where he just can't finish drives. It started last year and has continued into this year.
So if your QB can't execute that key part of his job why should he continue to play?
+1. We have a lot of holes in the roster than just Jones.
This. The Giants need to focus the draft on solidifying the foundation of the team, the trenches. I don’t have a strong opinion either way of Jones but this doesn’t look like the draft to search for his replacement. If Jones sucks in 22, draft his replacement in 23. At least the core will be set for the new guy if Jones proves he isn’t the guy.
Ya think?
None of these guys are going anywhere. Not Garrett and not judge. Who btw I am pretty sure all he did was ask BB what play he wanted to run on kickoff and the like. But he'll be back too.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.
But what was mara's role before 2011? He was still there was he not? He really just gave reese a scouting report and had no say in player decisions?
Say we sign a vet placeholder - what does that really do? Most of those guys are in a tier with Jones. It doesn't make us much better or worse. None of them have real upside. So I'm not going to get too worked up about the Jones situation for 22.
What does matter thought is the longer term. If Mara and co talk themselves into extending Jones, then we've got a big problem. In that regard, I'd be more comfortable if we moved on from Jones quickly, but if we're just talking about 2022, it doesn't matter who the QB is (again, assuming we're not using a high pick at QB).
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in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.
Alot of that was garbage time. They lost a lot of games and I remember them always playing from behind 2 scores late
But what was mara's role before 2011? He was still there was he not? He really just gave reese a scouting report and had no say in player decisions?
Well, Chris Mara on 2 separate occasions tried to be a GM, once of the Giants (we promoted Reese) and once of the Atlanta Falcons (I think the other Maras convinced him not to join another organization).
I think before his promotion he was just another voice on the committee, but afterward, he was effectively co-equal with the GM. (which, also being an owner, meant he was now more powerful than the GM).
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in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.
Does 2019 have an expiration date as a pro? We're almost two years out now...
I do defend Garrett. Not because I think he's great but because I don't think Jones is...
Why can't we be better with a better QB?
There are a lot of pieces here that a good QB could produce with...
"Viable" replacement? We can finish last in the division with literally anyone.
Well, Chris Mara on 2 separate occasions tried to be a GM, once of the Giants (we promoted Reese) and once of the Atlanta Falcons (I think the other Maras convinced him not to join another organization).
I think before his promotion he was just another voice on the committee, but afterward, he was effectively co-equal with the GM. (which, also being an owner, meant he was now more powerful than the GM).
Thanks for answering
I'm not talking about winning 7 or 8 games. I'm interested in being a team that can win playoff games. I just don't see it happening with Jones or any reasonably available QBs.
Judge stays with the same front office staff excluding Dave are we certain we are drafting the BPA or need players to fit the current coaching staffs needs based on the same drafting protocols currently used.
Again, what type of team are the Giants trying to construct?
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I'm fine with Jones playing another year. I'd be fine with moving him too. It doesn't really matter - we're not going to be good next year regardless.
Why can't we be better with a better QB?
There are a lot of pieces here that a good QB could produce with...
Absolutely delusional.
I'm not talking about winning 7 or 8 games. I'm interested in being a team that can win playoff games. I just don't see it happening with Jones or any reasonably available QBs.
Russell Wilson will be expendable in Seattle. And we have an extra first this year.
Garoppolo isn't very good. Shanny knows he's limited which is why they paid so much to move up to #3 for Lance.
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(that we could reasonably get). I don't think Jones is good, but I don't think he's measurably worse than any of the stopgap solutions. Bridgewater, Trubisky, Mariota, Jimmy G, Brisset?
I'm not talking about winning 7 or 8 games. I'm interested in being a team that can win playoff games. I just don't see it happening with Jones or any reasonably available QBs.
Russell Wilson will be expendable in Seattle. And we have an extra first this year.
He is certainly (a lot) better, but I do not like that idea at all. Maybe you have a higher view of the talent on this roster than I do. I think this team is terrible all around. No doubt, we'd win more games with Wilson, but getting him at age 33? I just don't see that going anywhere good. Maybe 2 9-8 seasons? That doesn't do it for me.
It's too soon to know what's going to happen in the QB market. Maybe the Raiders decide to move on from Carr.
He is certainly (a lot) better, but I do not like that idea at all. Maybe you have a higher view of the talent on this roster than I do. I think this team is terrible all around. No doubt, we'd win more games with Wilson, but getting him at age 33? I just don't see that going anywhere good. Maybe 2 9-8 seasons? That doesn't do it for me.
The guy has made a lot of chicken salad for a decade in Seattle. He's just one of those rare talents who can lift the play of others. It's an incredible attribute.
What's wrong with 33? In this day and age, 33 is basically 28. Wilson can easily play another 5+. Easily.
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I'm fine with Jones playing another year. I'd be fine with moving him too. It doesn't really matter - we're not going to be good next year regardless.
Why can't we be better with a better QB?
There are a lot of pieces here that a good QB could produce with...
And what pieces are those? Which were on the field today? Shepard is basically a JAG and injury waiting to happen who has never broken 1000 yards. Engram? Toney looked great last week, but of course is injured again. So who are these pieces that are magically not going to be injured for another QB?
I'm a fan of Jones only because I'm a fan of the Giants. I don't think he's the guy, but it'd be disingenuous to pretend that he's actually had a chance to play with all of these pieces you seem to claim another QB would find success with. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but good god I don't think I've ever seen an offense missing 7 projected starters including 3 OL and 3 of the top 4 WRs in only the 6th week of the season.
And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.
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In comment 15418593 bw in dc said:
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in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
Meanwhile he almost broke the rookie record for TDs two seasons ago in something like 12 games. He had a TD in every game that season. Meanwhile you continue to defend Garrett.
Does 2019 have an expiration date as a pro? We're almost two years out now...
I do defend Garrett. Not because I think he's great but because I don't think Jones is...
This is the 2nd time Garrett has failed as an OC...so, not sure what there is to defend? I'm not sure DJ is a franchise QB, but he'd be better without Garrett's dink and dunk, sissy playcalling.
And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.
Like I've said, I think Jones is about as good as Kent Graham was.
Are you telling me he couldn't create more wins than Jones?
He has played with horrendous OLs in Seattle and dragged them into the playoffs. You can't see him doing similar work here?
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If the QB can be improved upon, we should do it.
And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.
Like I've said, I think Jones is about as good as Kent Graham was.
He's definitely a backup level NFL QB. Nothing wrong with that - it's a really difficult thing to do.
What is wrong is the idiots that drafted him solely because they didn't want to get off the Eli Manning ride and they wanted something that looked and felt similar.
All you have to know is Gettleman praised Jones's pocket presence the day he drafted him. Tells you everything about Gettleman's evaluation skills.
Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.
Trade him ASAP.
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in six games. Only 1 TD at home. He's allergic to the end zone.
Basically, he's now 30th in the NFL in TD passes.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
And yet people groan when I say Jones is about the same level as Kent Graham.
Cmon. That’s more than a groan.
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In comment 15418686 Go Terps said:
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If the QB can be improved upon, we should do it.
And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.
Like I've said, I think Jones is about as good as Kent Graham was.
He's definitely a backup level NFL QB. Nothing wrong with that - it's a really difficult thing to do.
What is wrong is the idiots that drafted him solely because they didn't want to get off the Eli Manning ride and they wanted something that looked and felt similar.
All you have to know is Gettleman praised Jones's pocket presence the day he drafted him. Tells you everything about Gettleman's evaluation skills.
Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.
Trade him ASAP.
I wouldn't mind it but I don't think you're getting much for him. I don't think the Steelers would be a buyer. But maybe a late 3rd or a 4th. Most likely we'll ride him until we find somebody to replace him or the end of the fifth year. We really screwed up not drafting Herbert. That's what we want. That caliber of player.
Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.
Trade him ASAP.
You wish they are not signing him. They are. And how is Jones a depreciating asset? If anything he is an appreciating asset. He has a lot of upside potential. You really don't know if this is it for Jones. And it doesn't matter ; he isn't going anywhere.
So realistically you are looking at no changes to this team. Bark will be here so will Jones and Judge. Gettle might retire. I can see maybe getting rid of garrett but not really.
Everything that isn't bolted down should be traded for future assets. And the easiest players to trade are gonna be the guys still in their rookie contracts... Basically everyone drafted since 2018. Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, Hernandez...these guys don't have much value to the Goats beyond what they can net in trade.
It's about timelines now as much as anything else.
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Jones is a depreciating asset that we aren't going to sign to a second contract. The team isn't going to be competing for anything next year.
Trade him ASAP.
You wish they are not signing him. They are. And how is Jones a depreciating asset? If anything he is an appreciating asset. He has a lot of upside potential. You really don't know if this is it for Jones. And it doesn't matter ; he isn't going anywhere.
So realistically you are looking at no changes to this team. Bark will be here so will Jones and Judge. Gettle might retire. I can see maybe getting rid of garrett but not really.
I'm not so sure they are signing him. I think it is very likely they pick up the 5th year. But I'm not expecting an extension at this rate.
If you can't score TDs, it's time to sit and plan Glennon.
Stop embarrassing yourself with a post like this. You're much better than that.
Okay to move on from Jones but going with Glennon other than 1 game benching if that's what you meant is fine- but anything else is just ridiculous.
And improving upon Jones won't be too difficult.
Who?
Not arguing but who? And what are you giving up and how many games are you expecting to win when you get the QB?
You've been one of the biggest posters to shit on Jones, so offer an alternative instead of cliche. What's the Qb going to cost and how many wins will the Giants get as an estimate? Again- not arguing.
If I'm running the Giants I'm trading Jones now and drafting Matt Corral with one of my first round picks (I expect we'll be picking top five).
If Corral is gone I'm thinking about Willis (though I'm not there yet with him).
But there will be options.
If I'm running the Giants I'm trading Jones now and drafting Matt Corral with one of my first round picks (I expect we'll be picking top five).
If Corral is gone I'm thinking about Willis (though I'm not there yet with him).
But there will be options.
I'm not os sure about Carrol. Here's a few negatives I've heard and tell me if you think it sounds familiar?
1-- Tends to not hit receivers in stride instead behind.
2--- Will force plays jamming through lanes that he shouldn't try.
3-- Reluctant to take checkdowns.
4-- Will take too many sacks holding onto ball.
5--- Will lock onto receivers.
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Why get this QB unless you think he is elite?
The team sucks so bad by the time he is ready you'd have blown his inexpensive years.
You have said the OL sucks, right? You know the defense sucks right? SO unless this QB is elite - what's the point?
Seriously. If jones is best option he stays if not he goes.
If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.
Best take I've heard and the one most likely to happen.
If it doesn’t work, new GM will get to clean slate it.
This is how and why it never works out. Hire a guy and then tell him what he must do or not do.
If we hire the GM, he should be allowed to immediately fire the coach and draft or trade for a new QB to minutes after getting into his new seat.
Otherwise, this is John Mara meddling again.
And not get to hire the 2 most imprtant pieces-- the coach and the QB? So what he is going to go through this roster of JV players and try and decide who gets cut. That is not a new GM that is a new recruiting scout.
And not get to hire the 2 most imprtant pieces-- the coach and the QB? So what he is going to go through this roster of JV players and try and decide who gets cut. That is not a new GM that is a new recruiting scout.
You're absolutely right. The new GM should be able to do what he wants.
Though I fear what's going to happen is that because they are playing a weaker schedule in 2nd half, they'll win some games and then the Giants will make awful decisions/mandates again.
Are you telling me he couldn't create more wins than Jones?
He has played with horrendous OLs in Seattle and dragged them into the playoffs. You can't see him doing similar work here?
Create more wins? Not with this defense, no. I think our offense would probably improve because Wilson is far and away a better QB. But I don't think even Wilson would make Barkley hit the hole decisively (or stay healthy), Engram not tip passes to the defense, or have the WRs drop them.
I want to be clear that I think Jones is probably a mid-low level starter/very good backup QB in this league. I think a player like Mahomes, or Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers, whoever would absolutely improve the offense, though I question by how much given all of the other gaping holes. Do I think that means we would win more? With this defense? Probably not. I don't think there's a QB in this universe who makes this roster a viable playoff team.
Wilson would elevate all of these receivers, maybe Engram the most. Jones is fast but not elusive at all. Wilson, creates time and big plays. Wilson has a red zone game.
I believe Shurmur put a one read, simple system in place that would make QB stats look good but not result in wins. It was smoke and mirrors in Jones rookie year.
Jones has gotten to the Red Zone often in the last 2 years.
It is statistically relevant to say Jones is poor in Red Zone efficiency. His best play is the QB draw down there.
Unfortunately, the Saints game was an outlier.
Jones is going to have another good game.
No one should care at all until he consistently gets TDs in the red zone.
Here is the deal.
It is harder and faster in the red zone.
Jones is not up to it.
He can't burn the zero either.
Big problem.
Wilson would elevate all of these receivers, maybe Engram the most.
This is where posts generally lose me. A QB like Wilson can create, sure. Absolutely. He can buy time and find the open man, or allow a covered receiver to shake open. He can make the correct read, or know when to deviate from what he thought his read order should have been pre-snap and go with what the defense is actually doing post-snap to find the open guy. Maybe he can make his line look better by sliding in the pocket or escaping out of a collapsing one.
But what does "elevate" the players around him mean? You use Even Engram as an example. The dude is a fantastic athlete, but how exactly is Wilson going to make Even Engram have consistent hands? I won't go so far as to say Engram has stone hands because he makes some Level 10 difficulty catches, but the dude also tips passes right between the numbers to opposing defenses on the regular. As Sy said in his review, Shepard had two drops in the game and at least one was a pass that would have gotten stuck in his facemask if it didn't hit him in both hands. How does Wilson "elevate" Shepard to make a routine catch? How does Wilson make Toney make the easy 3rd down catch he dropped early in the game last week vs. Dallas? Or any other number of drops Giants receivers have had this season? They happen no matter who is throwing the ball. "Elevating" players, outside of maybe making the OL look slightly better, is a myth.
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Once again, to be absolutely crystal clear: I don't think Jones is the guy. But nobody is turning guys like Engram, who almost seem to drop the ball or tip it directly to defenders as often as the catch it, into legitimate All-Pros.
And if by chance a talented vet becomes available like Stafford did, then make a move.
Stop worrying about time frames...they are in a abyss and need to climb out.