I have disagreed with Terps and bw for about two years on whether Daniel Jones is the right QB for the Giants or not. I said that I would give Jones until mid season to prove he is the Giants QB of the future feeling he had shown ability and never really had decent enough WRs and offensive parts to be fairly judged. I do not need to get to game 9.
I was wrong and they were correct. Daniel Jones is NOT the franchise QB for the New York Giants. He may be able to play on another team with a VG oline and good quality WRs, but not for the Giants. Once Toney left the game he looked panicked and started making poor decisions. Yes the line absolutely blew and even Sterling Shepard was dropping passes. But either he was still affected by the concussion or he was confused by the Rams defense. But he was dreadful after the first drive.
I will also say that whomever made the decision to switch Peart and Solder sides after Thomas went down was an absolute idiot. Peart played VG RT last week. Why double weaken the line by having them switch sides. I stopped watching after the INT with 5 min left in the 1st half when it was 14-3.
So, I was wrong and they were right and I could not return to BBI without that admission.
Clearly Daniel Jones blew his lunch the second Kadarius Toney left the game, but are you going to completely wipe away Daniel Jones' performance against the Saints when he had good pass blocking and a decent set of WRs on the field?
Go Terps, if we are going to talk about him, think Joe Judge is a great coach.
Putting the Daniel Jones question to the side, I think quite a few BBIers have been "...advocating a complete reset of the team from coaches to players..."
I never use the phrase "blow it all up," because obviously there are several players we need to hold onto. But it's clear the team needs a new G.M.; new Head Coach; and a significant turnover in its college scouting department. Short of that and the chronic losing will continue.
I'm more worried that Judge and Co. are not the answer.
Want to believe yesterday was the real Daniel Jones and not a bad game , ok, your privilege.
Many quarterbacks, some great ones, have games like yesterday. But the narrative has been set with this guy for some of you
Not surprised that a game like yesterday would lead to your conclusion
Economics matter though. This is NOT the NFL of Simms & Eli, QB’s need to make their mark during their rookie contract. Jones is 9-23 as a starter and continuously this team does not score enough points. Specifically, red zone offense.
I’m all for evaluating Jones at the end of the season, but committing him to another 4-5 years would be extremely foolish, pie in the sky thinking in my opinion.
He was forcing throws into coverage. That was a bad sign.
It was a combo of Toney and Thomas, true, which is why I brought up Peart and LT and Solder at RT. Solder sucks and yesterday Peart was as bad
Nope, like I said, I do think he is an NFL QB but that was some pretty bad regression yesterday.
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you give him the rest of the season and then evaluate, you cant react to every single game, every single pass, wait until the end of the season and then see what happens
Economics matter though. This is NOT the NFL of Simms & Eli, QB’s need to make their mark during their rookie contract. Jones is 9-23 as a starter and continuously this team does not score enough points. Specifically, red zone offense.
I’m all for evaluating Jones at the end of the season, but committing him to another 4-5 years would be extremely foolish, pie in the sky thinking in my opinion.
They dont have to pay him after this year, still got another year on his rookie deal
You don't have an infinite amount of time to make a determination on these kinds of things anymore. THe Giants need to start making plans on how to move forward now since, yet again, the season is over before November starts and bring about a culture change.
The only thing I am comfortable saying is I do not see a QB as of right now that you invest a second contract in.
Whatever winds up happening it will not be easy finding what some on here expect from the QB position. The focus imo should be on building a team that can win the box (OL/TE and Front 7). Teams winning that part of the game at least have a chance even in this "modern" NFL.
Want to believe yesterday was the real Daniel Jones and not a bad game , ok, your privilege.
Many quarterbacks, some great ones, have games like yesterday. But the narrative has been set with this guy for some of you
Not surprised that a game like yesterday would lead to your conclusion
So many people want to believe that Jones' best games are the real Jones, when there are many more examples of mediocre or poor games that either get forgotten or excused for one reason or another.
Time to face facts, a passer rating of 90 is below average in the modern NFL. Daniel Jones has only surpassed that rating in 12 of his 32 career starts.
Yesterday was the 16th time in 32 starts that Jones has had a passer rating below 80 and his 8th sub 70 game.
Like virtually every QB in the league, he's capable of occasional great games, but there's no evidence to suggest he's capable of being a consistently great or even above average QB.
What a world.
We do know the talent level on this team is poor. We also all have agreed the play calling sucks on both sides of the ball.
Yesterday, Jones did not run at all. That limits us and makes our team easier to defend. It is inexcusable. If you are concerned about the concussion, then he should not have played. The only way we had a shot to beat the Rams and move the ball was to include running by Jones. Especially when our offensive line was getting destroyed.
THe best thing for Daniel Jones - is to get out of the NYG.
The best thing for the NYG - is to get out of Daniel Jones.
No Kenny Golladay
No Kadarius Toney
No Darius Slayton
No Nick Gates
But yeah Daniel sucks for not carrying us to a win vs the Rams.
The arguments do not make sense. We cannot say we have horrible coaching and then at the same time expect a young QB coming into this league under the direction of these coaches to perform well.
I dont think Jones will be a top QB in the league. I do think he would play better with the right coaching and system to the point where he is not of concern.
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Has not been the reason for the losing this season, he has been one of the bright spots
Want to believe yesterday was the real Daniel Jones and not a bad game , ok, your privilege.
Many quarterbacks, some great ones, have games like yesterday. But the narrative has been set with this guy for some of you
Not surprised that a game like yesterday would lead to your conclusion
So many people want to believe that Jones' best games are the real Jones, when there are many more examples of mediocre or poor games that either get forgotten or excused for one reason or another.
Time to face facts, a passer rating of 90 is below average in the modern NFL. Daniel Jones has only surpassed that rating in 12 of his 32 career starts.
Yesterday was the 16th time in 32 starts that Jones has had a passer rating below 80 and his 8th sub 70 game.
Like virtually every QB in the league, he's capable of occasional great games, but there's no evidence to suggest he's capable of being a consistently great or even above average QB.
How is that any different than believing his bad games are the real Jones?
I choose to focus on the ceiling of a player when evaluating; Becoming that player more consistently can be learned.
No quarterback in the league would have performed behind that offensive line yesterday. How many times do we have to see A 4 th or 3 rd and short stuffed at the line? How good would Daniel look if he had a running game like the Cowboys?
I ve never agreed that he should be able to lift this team as now composed to victory, no one could. Do we forget how the best quarterback in the league looked in the Super Bowl!
You want to believe yesterday was a better reflection of what Jones is, ok.
I d rather look at the Jones I saw in NO with all his skill players there, and some time to throw.
You re entitled to your opinion and so am I.
You make it seem like there is something wrong with looking at his potential and believing he can be the guy. How is that any different than looking at yesterday and coming to your conclusions
Yesterday was not some kind of outlier performance from Jones. New Orleans was the outlier. Has he had bright spots in his career where he looked like he may be a franchise QB? Absolutely. But more times than not, he is what they call in hockey a passenger. He doesn’t move the needle for the team at all. If everything is clicking he is clicking. When things break down or go sideways he goes off the rails.
I don’t understand why so many people want to hold onto the very few “flashes” he shows and disregard the majority of his play.
It’s ok to be a Giant fan and think some of the players aren’t very good. Everyone on this board thinks Engram should be fired into the sun. That’s ok. But when if you think Jones is not very good, you are some miserable person who hates the Giants.
The question is not is Daniel Jones a nice guy that you want to see succeed. The answer to that is yes. The really question is “have you seen enough to know this guy can put a team on his shoulders and carry them, and you want to commit serious money to him?” I really can’t fathom that people are still answering “yes” to that second question.
Jones will be the real deal, you'll see.
Jones showed me a lot yesterday. He is a person who can overcome diversity and keep plugging away. He finally showed some confidence throwing outside with that nice throw to toney on that 3rd and long. He is far from perfect but at this point to start talking about jettison jones of all things when this roster straight up is horrible is short sighted and plain dumb
So you’re going to take a chance on another QB now in hope you find the next mahomes and keep changing until you do? This is a team sport and you need good or at the least good enough players playing really well together with a decent organized offense. Right now we have a pretty decent QB who might have a much higher ceiling if this team had an offense that was not part Bill bellichek special teams, part cowboys , and like the worst roster in the league that’s always hurt.jones is the least of this teams problem.
+100
JUMPED off the screen immediatly
Section125, you can do it too - just start predicting we will stink and make sure you say it on every thread, 100x per day. Do it enough and maybe you'll get your own apology thread.
That's exactly what you do.
It doesn't have to be Mahomes. It can be Murray, Herbert, Jackson, Allen...
Section125, you can do it too - just start predicting we will stink and make sure you say it on every thread, 100x per day. Do it enough and maybe you'll get your own apology thread.
I was negative but I did not expect it to be this bad. I thought 6-9 wins was a reasonable expectation this year. Maybe we get to six, but that feels like an uphill battle.
Nobody is suggesting Jones should have won the game yesterday, or that the Giants should be 5-1 right now and he is holding them back. It is possible to have a bad QB on a good team just like you can have a good QB on a bad team.
Having Aaron Rodgers behind center yesterday would not have lead to a win. But you honestly think he would have been as lost and inaccurate as Jones? You think he would have stared holes in his first read all day like Jones did?
Gettleman put together a horrible team, and injuries have removed the few decent pieces they have. But you can still evaluate what a QB does with what he has. If you couldn’t, how would you say Archie Manning and Warren Moon were good QBs?
That's exactly what you do.
It doesn't have to be Mahomes. It can be Murray, Herbert, Jackson, Allen...
Was it Bill Walsh or Bill Polian who said you draft a qb every year in the draft. Somewhere in the draft, to either develop and trade or be a backup or be the guy (even if you have THE GUY). You take one every year. I'd take those 2 guys at GM day day of the week over DG.
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isn't something to congratulate someone on. The chances of the Giants being really good this year were low. The chances of Jones being really good this year (or in general) were low.
Section125, you can do it too - just start predicting we will stink and make sure you say it on every thread, 100x per day. Do it enough and maybe you'll get your own apology thread.
I was negative but I did not expect it to be this bad. I thought 6-9 wins was a reasonable expectation this year. Maybe we get to six, but that feels like an uphill battle.
I thought we'd be ok, but we don't have enough talent to overcome all the injuries and Jones isn't good enough to work with this type of merry-go-round at OL and the skill positions. I think he can be solid on another team but I just don't see it here.
That's exactly what you do.
It doesn't have to be Mahomes. It can be Murray, Herbert, Jackson, Allen...
You didn’t even know mahomes was going to be mahomes until he got put an a spread offense masterfully coach ed. And Herbert could be sitting on a bench still for all u know if not for the chargers dr hurting Taylor by mistake
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In comment 15418825 joeinpa said:
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Has not been the reason for the losing this season, he has been one of the bright spots
Want to believe yesterday was the real Daniel Jones and not a bad game , ok, your privilege.
Many quarterbacks, some great ones, have games like yesterday. But the narrative has been set with this guy for some of you
Not surprised that a game like yesterday would lead to your conclusion
So many people want to believe that Jones' best games are the real Jones, when there are many more examples of mediocre or poor games that either get forgotten or excused for one reason or another.
Time to face facts, a passer rating of 90 is below average in the modern NFL. Daniel Jones has only surpassed that rating in 12 of his 32 career starts.
Yesterday was the 16th time in 32 starts that Jones has had a passer rating below 80 and his 8th sub 70 game.
Like virtually every QB in the league, he's capable of occasional great games, but there's no evidence to suggest he's capable of being a consistently great or even above average QB.
How is that any different than believing his bad games are the real Jones?
I choose to focus on the ceiling of a player when evaluating; Becoming that player more consistently can be learned.
No quarterback in the league would have performed behind that offensive line yesterday. How many times do we have to see A 4 th or 3 rd and short stuffed at the line? How good would Daniel look if he had a running game like the Cowboys?
I ve never agreed that he should be able to lift this team as now composed to victory, no one could. Do we forget how the best quarterback in the league looked in the Super Bowl!
You want to believe yesterday was a better reflection of what Jones is, ok.
I d rather look at the Jones I saw in NO with all his skill players there, and some time to throw.
You re entitled to your opinion and so am I.
You make it seem like there is something wrong with looking at his potential and believing he can be the guy. How is that any different than looking at yesterday and coming to your conclusions
I didn't come to my conclusion yesterday, and the evidence supports my conclusion far more than yours.
You've got your hopes and dreams and a raft of excuses. And if that makes you feel better, have at it. I choose to dwell in reality where Daniel Jones is a mediocre NFL QB who occasionally plays well.
His stats put him somewhere in the Sam Darnold Jalen Hurts zone. See the link. Jones has slightly better yards per pass attempt but his inability to get in the end zone is glaring.
The Panthers and Eagles are both rumored to be looking for alternatives at QB, even though Darnold and Hurts are young players who will get better.
Given the fact that the Giants are entering a rebuild, the argument for continuing with Jones on a big contract is very, very weak. In fact, it would be folly.
2021 NFL rankings to date by YPA - ( New Window )
( New Window )
...and everyone has been screaming about the horrible play calling in the red zone
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"So you’re going to take a chance on another QB now in hope you find the next mahomes and keep changing until you do?"
That's exactly what you do.
It doesn't have to be Mahomes. It can be Murray, Herbert, Jackson, Allen...
You didn’t even know mahomes was going to be mahomes until he got put an a spread offense masterfully coach ed. And Herbert could be sitting on a bench still for all u know if not for the chargers dr hurting Taylor by mistake
Bullshit. I remember watching highlights from Mahomes’ first start late in his rookie season and sitting straight up because his play was so spectacular.
Not sure if I’m understanding your post, though.
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"So you’re going to take a chance on another QB now in hope you find the next mahomes and keep changing until you do?"
That's exactly what you do.
It doesn't have to be Mahomes. It can be Murray, Herbert, Jackson, Allen...
You didn’t even know mahomes was going to be mahomes until he got put an a spread offense masterfully coach ed. And Herbert could be sitting on a bench still for all u know if not for the chargers dr hurting Taylor by mistake
If you're suggesting that the Chiefs and Chargers "lucked" into Mahomes and Herbert...then I would say even more emphatically YES the Giants should keep drafting QBs until they "luck" into a franchise changing QB.