I get that this is New York and that the immediate reaction to a loss like this - and frankly a string of losing seasons like this - is going to be "fire everyone!"
Let's remember though, that Phil Simms was drafted in 1979. He was an enormous disappointment until 1984, when he started to stay healthy and turn the corner. But it was FIVE FULL SEASONS of disappointment with him before the patience started to pay off.
Eli Manning, for a good long while, had many concerned that he was a bust as well. From 2004-2007, he had been to two playoff games - one against Carolina in which he led the offense to a grand total of ZERO points (at home) and another (after an 8-8 season) that he lost to the hated Eagles. The next year, before it all started to click, look at the week 11 loss to the Vikings in which he threw three pick sixes - not just three interceptions, but three pick sixes. Fans were thinking he clearly was not the answer. And remember, at this point Roethlisberger already had a ring...
Yesterday, Jones played poorly - there is no arguing otherwise. But that he played like a guy who had some cobwebs a week after getting a hard-to-watch concussion should come as no surprise to anyone. That he played at all should come as a pleasant surprise to EVERYONE. This guy has guts and he wants to play. I'm not saying that Daniel Jones is the next Phil Simms or the next Eli Manning. I will say, though, that patience with players is ESSENTIAL. Especially players that have talent, and Jones has talent.
Against the Saints, our last four first-round draft picks all played and played well. Yesterday, three of the four were limited, and then out altogether. You could say four of the four if you include Jones as limited coming off a concussion. Do you think that doesn't take a toll on the field? Of course it does! Would the Giants (and Jones) have had a better chance if Thomas, Barkely, and Toney were all healthy and playing? Certainly a much better chance. Do you think the Giants would have had a better chance with Gates at center, Lemieux at left guard, and a healthy Thomas at left tackle? Surely.
Injuries happen and teams have to be ready for them, but at some point you lose critical mass and the weight on the too-many-backups becomes too much to bear. It happens even to teams that start off fully loaded. It's not an excuse, it's a cause of what we're seeing. Now if you want to go down the "we're drafting too many guys that get hurt," that's a rabbit hole that won't get you very far. Many of the guys that are injured had no injury history at all. Sometimes it's just bad luck.
The Giants are bad this year for many reasons. But first and foremost is that the majority - the vast majority - of their best players are not even playing. I do think that some changes need to be made. Clearly the status quo is not working. But I also think the biggest thing that would help this team would be to get - and stay - fully healthy.
Other markets make whole-sale changes as well. And for the betterment of the team.
The Giants should assess a full year of games and see how Jones develops which, for this year, goes beyond win/losses.
Investing a #2 overall pick in a RB position where the injury rate and shelf life are way more volatile than other positions.
The #1 holdup that most posters had with investing such a large portion of cap to Golladay was his question marks about health. I was a big proponent of signing him as well, but this was my concern too.
Shep's #1 bugagoo his entire Giant career has been his ability to consistently stay on the field.
Those are 3 of our most important offensive weapons, with question marks that shouldn't have come as a surprise. We can say it's unfortunate that they've happened, but these 3 major pieces haven't been beacon's of health for their NFL careers.
Regarding other injuries, I mean it's the NFL. Ravens lost what, the top 3 RBs on their depth chart and their #1 CB a week before the season began, and they're still the #3 rushing team in the league, while sporting a 5-1 record.
That game, and how Eli played after it, is the only reason I am not 100% ready to call Jones a failure.
That said, Jones doesn't have 50% of the arm that Eli had. A cannon arm and arguably the best deep ball touch in the NFL can easily cover up some bad decision making mistakes.
That game, and how Eli played after it, is the only reason I am not 100% ready to call Jones a failure.
That said, Jones doesn't have 50% of the arm that Eli had. A cannon arm and arguably the best deep ball touch in the NFL can easily cover up some bad decision making mistakes.
Elis Decision making and lack of ability to throw a tight ball was probably the biggest complaint at this point in his career.
Nor is he the solution. At least not that he has demonstrated other than in short spurts.
You can only give him a contract if he has proven he is the long term answer. Does anyone believe that determination is case closed?
It is not relevant at all.
Eli Manning in 2004 isn’t relevant either. It’s a different league.
This franchise is becoming the modern day version of the Bengals, Brown, Jets, and Lions, and people out there are asking for MORE patience.
I used to think Giants fans are smarter than most other fanbases, but not anymore.
Six wins in 11 games on a weak team. Jones has all of nine wins over 32 starts.
Are the Giants the only team in the NFL with injuries? How are the Ravens doing with those injuries? The Seahawks went to OT last night with Geno Smith starting...
How much patience do we need to give? Would giving Gettleman 10 years provide enough time for his team not to get its doors blown off routinely? The Giants aren't exactly starting a bunch of rookies either...especially on defense.
For the life of me I have no idea how anyone could have faith in this front office to produce a good roster. And the head coach and staff are a giant question mark and that is being generous.
This franchise is becoming the modern day version of the Bengals, Brown, Jets, and Lions, and people out there are asking for MORE patience.
I used to think Giants fans are smarter than most other fanbases, but not anymore.
Becoming? They are the jets, lions. I wish they were as good as the browns and bengals. There's no hope right now with this group in charge. Absolutely none
Th team turned it around on offense because of Carpenter.
And Parcells badly blundered going with Brunner the following year.
Unlike the "poor decisions" and "mistakes" of the last 4 years...
How much time do you want to give? And you honestly think even a healthy version of this roster is any good?
Th team turned it around on offense because of Carpenter.
And Parcells badly blundered going with Brunner the following year.
Not only that, I find it rich that people are complaining about Jones' "weapons" while Simms was throwing to the likes of Johnny Perkins and Mike Friede
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Maybe we'll be fortunate at some point this season to have Barkley, Toney, Galloday, Shep, Slayton and Thomas all on the field at the same time. And we're desperate for edge talent which two #1's should solve next draft.
How much time do you want to give? And you honestly think even a healthy version of this roster is any good?
Ask New Orleans
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In comment 15419921 jsuds said:
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Maybe we'll be fortunate at some point this season to have Barkley, Toney, Galloday, Shep, Slayton and Thomas all on the field at the same time. And we're desperate for edge talent which two #1's should solve next draft.
How much time do you want to give? And you honestly think even a healthy version of this roster is any good?
Ask New Orleans
So you really think its only injuries holding back this team from being good? Care to explain denver, atlanta and Washington ( playing their backup QB)?
And aside from Martinez, whos injured on the defense? How have they looked the last 2 weeks? Is that the fault of injuries too?
I would have very much liked to have seen a line (all healthy) of Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Hernandez, and Solder/Peart. Add in a healthy Barkley, Golladay, Toney, and Slayton/Shepard and I can't help but think we would have a much better barometer for evaluating this team than we do with all those guys out and/or hurt...