and how often is it the candidate not wanting the job and asking the team to block it so they don't have to look disrespectful or waste time on a long interview prep for a job they don't want.
It seems if you were a team legitimately holding people back from promotions, it would be difficult to bring in talent.
RE: How often is it actually the team blocking the request
and how often is it the candidate not wanting the job and asking the team to block it so they don't have to look disrespectful or waste time on a long interview prep for a job they don't want.
It seems if you were a team legitimately holding people back from promotions, it would be difficult to bring in talent.
Stearns was blocked last year as well. The belief is the Brewers are going to give him a huge extension and might even hold a 2023 option on him as well. There is no "promotion" Stearns could have had with the Mets. This was a linear move.
Sandy and his son to land a top name... if that results in... Josh Byrnes or... Brandon Gomes... not exactly a HR for Cohen.
"Two Dodgers executives are on the Mets’ radar, senior VP Josh Byrnes and assistant GM Brandon Gomes. Byrnes’ level of interest in the job is not yet clear, but if the Mets asked for permission to speak with him, they will almost certainly receive it, sources say."
Mets are 48 games under 500 during Sandy’s nine years as a GM or President .
His player acquisitions have been about average his GM and managerial hiring I’ve been terrible
Porter a sexual pervert
Zach Scott a drunk
Mickey Callaway sexual pervert completely in over his head
Terry Collins was actually his best hire. What does that say?
Cohen obviously needs Sandy’s guidance since he doesn’t know anything about the business of baseball but I’m not exactly hopeful that this hire will be a good one given Sandy’s woeful track record
allowed Stearns to interview, unless it was a Godfather offer (which it very well could have been but who knows), he sounded like he was staying in Milwaukee.
did anyone see SNY advocating for trading Alvarez for this guy?
With the rejection to even speak to him this idea (pushed by multiple media members is in fact dead). Allow them to speak would proceed talking about compensation. By saying they can't speak, it means that idea is dead and buried.
assume they will ask for permission to speak to Byrnes for POBO. Gomes would likely be a guy they would ask to speak to as a potential GM, really hope that wouldn't meaning Sandy remaining in charge. They should make the call on Thad Levine, though he's resisted both the Mets/Phillies recently.
over the weekend that said Depo wouldn't leave the Browns for a MLB return and it was about the Mets.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
over the weekend that said Depo wouldn't leave the Browns for a MLB return and it was about the Mets.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
He didn't really give much of an answer other than he wasn't interested but he recently signed a 5 year contract to remain with the Browns.
are just names but if this ends up being the hire after he was fired by Miami, then both the Mets and Phillies passed on him... not a great look for Cohen/Sandy, sorry.
Jack Ramsey
@jackwramsey
·
59m
Best fit i believe is Josh Byrnes. Most likely is Mike Hill. There’s reason for belief that all other execs could get blocked by their teams. Hill is the only one not working for a team rn.
over the weekend that said Depo wouldn't leave the Browns for a MLB return and it was about the Mets.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
I went back and read the piece. Sherman spoke to him and he said he wasn't interested in leaving the Browns. There wasn't else to it, or even a direct quote (I'm not doubting Sherman spoke to him) just nothing to expand on.
over the weekend that said Depo wouldn't leave the Browns for a MLB return and it was about the Mets.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
I went back and read the piece. Sherman spoke to him and he said he wasn't interested in leaving the Browns. There wasn't else to it, or even a direct quote (I'm not doubting Sherman spoke to him) just nothing to expand on.
It's pretty simple I think...
He was a college football player and he likes that sport better... haha
I thin Cleveland might be "home" for him too, since he started his baseball career with the Indians.
didn't realize Anthopoulos spent 2 years with the Dodgers FO prior to being hired by the Braves. That means Friedman left the Rays (which we know to be a pretty amazing franchise), "created" the Dodgers model, then Anthopoulos (who is on record acknowledging this) took his "education" in that system and implemented much of it in Atlanta. This is the opposite of the Belichick tree. Chaim Bloom also obviously from there as well. Teams were smart to target Neander when they did.
- As I noted above, I really think they should make a call on Thad Levine. Yes, he turned them down in 2018, and turned down the Phillies last year but they can offer him the POBO role, something he can't have with the Twins with Falvey there.
The idea that Sandy is some massive respected baseball mind that people fall over themselves in desire to work with...is total nonsense.
They admire him as a man and person but I don't see the evidence that there's interest in being around Sandy the baseball mind.
I can't blame people for being worried about this job. You come to the job and immediately have Sandy and his son breathing over your shoulder.
There is now a suggestion from some that they only bring in a GM. Not really ideal when Sandy's son was just promoted to assistant GM and Sandy is still there. Hard to believe anybody who either isn't desperate to be GM or simply the paycheck is going to want to have to deal with such a setup.
Sandy president
GM+ Levin/Sandy's son as his assistants (both just promoted in July)
maybe MIL is playing this up to get the Mets to give up some young talent, but I'm not sure I'd do that. Find a GM, ride it out for another year, and see if Stearns or someone else shakes loose.
maybe MIL is playing this up to get the Mets to give up some young talent, but I'm not sure I'd do that. Find a GM, ride it out for another year, and see if Stearns or someone else shakes loose.
Expectation is the Brewers and Stearns have already discussed an extension and Martino reported he has a 2023 option. He’s out. Heyman also now confirming the Mets are “pessimistic” they get to speak to Beane and will have to expand their list.
Expectation is the Brewers and Stearns have already discussed an extension and Martino reported he has a 2023 option. He’s out. Heyman also now confirming the Mets are “pessimistic” they get to speak to Beane and will have to expand their list.
Thanks. It does look like the best plan may be to hire a GM and punt the POBO question to next year. Or maybe think outside the box and hire someone from outside MLB? Kind of like the Browns did with De Podesto.
Expectation is the Brewers and Stearns have already discussed an extension and Martino reported he has a 2023 option. He’s out. Heyman also now confirming the Mets are “pessimistic” they get to speak to Beane and will have to expand their list.
Thanks. It does look like the best plan may be to hire a GM and punt the POBO question to next year. Or maybe think outside the box and hire someone from outside MLB? Kind of like the Browns did with De Podesto.
Will Carroll said he heard they discussed a name that “blew his mind”. He refused to divulge it but said it was somebody who didn’t have experience in such a role. As I noted above, one issue with hiring “only” a GM is the Mets just named Sandy’s son assistant GM. Not really ideal to have this new person having one Alderson above him and one as assistant GM (in addition to his other assistant GM (Ian Levin, also just promoted) picked for him. Sure, they could potentially fire one of them but they aren’t firing Sandy’s son..
Will Carroll said he heard they discussed a name that “blew his mind”. He refused to divulge it but said it was somebody who didn’t have experience in such a role. As I noted above, one issue with hiring “only” a GM is the Mets just named Sandy’s son assistant GM. Not really ideal to have this new person having one Alderson above him and one as assistant GM (in addition to his other assistant GM (Ian Levin, also just promoted) picked for him. Sure, they could potentially fire one of them but they aren’t firing Sandy’s son..
Not a good sign that Cohen allowed Sandy to hire his son, especially without a GM already in place.
that we have a realistic chance of landing since it looks like the big 3 are out of the picture?
Byrnes is being touted as the top name. Retread Michel Hill, I’d call about Thad Levine personally. I guess they can see if Chernoff had a change of heart.
Will Carroll said he heard they discussed a name that “blew his mind”. He refused to divulge it but said it was somebody who didn’t have experience in such a role. As I noted above, one issue with hiring “only” a GM is the Mets just named Sandy’s son assistant GM. Not really ideal to have this new person having one Alderson above him and one as assistant GM (in addition to his other assistant GM (Ian Levin, also just promoted) picked for him. Sure, they could potentially fire one of them but they aren’t firing Sandy’s son..
Not a good sign that Cohen allowed Sandy to hire his son, especially without a GM already in place.
Sandy’s son was already here. He was promoted in July which yeah, suggests he’s not going anywhere in November.
I wouldn't be against @mets keeping on Scott as part of the FO but there is no way he can be rewarded with being named the full-time GM (the caveat, I guess being that this was all a misunderstanding, he's completely innocent etc but even then... were you that impressed with the Mets moves that he deserves a promotion? As part of the FO, he'd likely be an asset.
it or not, Cohen/Sandy completely struck out for 2 off-seasons on their "top" targets. They may well end up with somebody very good or even great but that's just the facts. Sandy being some sort of enticement to top names has not been the case.
it or not, Cohen/Sandy completely struck out for 2 off-seasons on their "top" targets. They may well end up with somebody very good or even great but that's just the facts. Sandy being some sort of enticement to top names has not been the case.
Sort of makes you wonder what the point is of having Alderson around?
You’d think Cohen, who was an avid baseball fan before this and made his living on acquiring and trading on information, would have a better idea of who to go after around the league.
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
·
8m
I'm curious how the Mets are going to try to spin this when Epstein and Beane straight up said no. They pulled the "teams wouldn't let us interview candidates" card last year which I think in at least some cases was a formal nicety, but that's not available this time
it or not, Cohen/Sandy completely struck out for 2 off-seasons on their "top" targets. They may well end up with somebody very good or even great but that's just the facts. Sandy being some sort of enticement to top names has not been the case.
Sort of makes you wonder what the point is of having Alderson around?
You’d think Cohen, who was an avid baseball fan before this and made his living on acquiring and trading on information, would have a better idea of who to go after around the league.
Cohen wanted to hire La Russa/Arn Tellem to run the Dodgers when he thought he was going to be the high bidder for him, so it's unclear exactly what his baseball acumen is. Not suggesting, I know what kind of job they would do but that would have been a weird way to go.
For whatever the reason it didn't happen last off-season when it was heavily rumored but I keep coming back to Bobby Heckas a guy @mets need to heavily, heavily consider hiring. I think he'd be a fantastic hire. Here is he is talking to Keith Law- Link - ( New Window )
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
·
1m
There wasn’t an executive in the game who ever believed Billy Beane would leave his $8 million-a-year job with the #Athletics to go to the #Mets. Beane was never, ever leaving. And now the #Mets officially know it too.
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
·
7m
I don't think if the Mets get, say, Matt Arnold or Brandon Gomes as president of baseball ops or chief baseball officer and an AGM you've never heard of as GM that it's necessarily a bad thing, but the process to get there has been a debacle, and selling this more broadly is uhhh
Will Carroll
@injuryexpert
·
8m
And yes, Bobby Heck was the name that blew my mind. Super capable, great baseball guy, awesome scout, and has been with winning orgs. I was surprised he'd be mentioned for PBO role when hasn't been GM. Not that I don't think he'd be good for it, just surprised.
Will Carroll
@injuryexpert
·
10m
The Mets have been calling around, basically putting together a longer list past their "top 3" and seeing who's available/interested. I've heard several names, can confirm Doug Melvin (finalist last time), Bobby Heck (TB), and Dorian Boyland on the list.
is 69 years old and hasn't had an official title since 2015. That would be... something. This isn't hiring some all-timer like La Russa or Dusty... yikes.
looks like an absurd candidate. I've been searching for 5 minutes to find something that would support his candidacy and he's a 67 year old former big leaguer who made a lot of money selling cars and is charitable...
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
·
1m
There wasn’t an executive in the game who ever believed Billy Beane would leave his $8 million-a-year job with the #Athletics to go to the #Mets. Beane was never, ever leaving. And now the #Mets officially know it too.
So does this Beane came very close to jumping to the Mets...Always assume the opposite with Nightengale reports.
Joking aside, Cohen missing out on his top targets ( and seeming not even getting close) is really disappointing. Is it him that is turning people off? Curious to hear why this job isn't more attractive.
with these three candidates. Two were/are basically in lateral roles. Beane is already a minority owner in OAK.
Theo was a pipe dream and had specific requirements Cohen knew about and wasn't likely to offer Theo.
Naming those three guys would be like if the Giants fired Gettleman and said our three candidates are Eric Da Costa, Steve Keim, and Brandon Beane (all three of whom are in similar roles with contenders). or even Belichick.
It just makes the Mets look dysfunctional/bad but reality is none were a good match and for none would it even be a promotion (Theo was POBO with the Cubs).
like Will Carroll but this is ridiculous (to me) when I questioned Boyland
"Will Carroll
@injuryexpert
·
5m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
If I drop you in that job, could you do it? You follow the Mets, you speak in complete sentences. Is it that hard of a job to do?"
Tim Finnegan
@timfinn521
·
1m
Baseball is going in a very specific direction among winning teams, pitch design, prioritize vertical movement over horizontal to pitch around bat path, hit the ball in the air. The Mets’ hire doesn’t have to be a “name”, but it needs to be cutting edge. Adapt or get left behind
Shi Davidi
@ShiDavidi
Mark Shapiro says very little of Blue Jays' off-season planning is being impacted by CBA uncertainty, and intriguingly adds, "I'm feeling pretty good about the commissioner being so confident that a deal will get done by Dec. 1."
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
Quick Mets front office notes:
-Epstein, Beane, & Stearns not coming
-Mets really like Gomes though Dodgers might promote to GM
-Mets aren’t optimistic about Josh Byrnes
-Doug Melvin back in the mix
-Mets haven’t asked to interview Bobby Heck yet, but could circle back
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
52s
The top of the Mets' president of baseball operations wish list has been lopped off, with David Stearns, Billy Beane and (previously) Theo Epstein now all reportedly out of the mix. Echoes of last year, when the Mets struggled to secure interviews with experienced candidates.
They can only come up with big names like Theo and Beane.
They should be trying to find the next Theo, the next Beane. Look at SF Giants plucked Zaide from the Dodgers organization. Or Chaim Bloom with the Red Sox.
Cohen had to treat this like a business and not his little toy. Hire a search committee composed of knowledgeable outsiders. Instead he has Sandy thumbing through his contacts.
A report that the #Mets have put former #Pirates 1b Dorian Boyland on growing short list led to a pleasant conversation with Boyland who told me no contact with the NYM, no interest in the job. He said he is happy to run his car dealerships.
The dearth of front office talent out there is kind of baffling..
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
It's not a dearth. It's just not a known name out there for a fan to know. But the Mets should be able to talk within the league and find that guy.
Compared to the talent trying to become CEOs and CFOs of Fortune 500 companies...trying to be partners at top consulting firms...trying to run investment banks...that's what I'm talking about...
Some of the dudes being "discussed" shouldnt even be in the conversation..
Like I said in the other thread..my theory is it's most likely a function of the boom or bust nature of the career path. There aren't that many jobs to make the $$ compared to the aforementioned paths. I'd bet there are a bunch of people on this board who are executives and talented whose dream job it would have been, but we all chose the safer routes.
On that other thread I brought this up someone also mentioned the nepotism aspect which is also real..
if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason. finding leaders and executives who know how to build successful organizations is not the same thing as successful and well compensated specialists (whether that's a baseball scout or a lawyer/banker).
that doesn't absolve Cohen at all. this year he needs to deliver a real strong management team who can provide a 5-10 year vision for the organization. Anything worse than Porter is a disaster. in fact if things get bad enough and they thought Porter was truly the goods in the limited time with him last year I'd think about bringing him back. Yes it will be bad PR hit at the beginning but that's better than 5 years of bad PR from losing if they blow this hire. what he did was clearly inappropriate and it was absolutely fair to move on from him in light of new information when it happened. I don't think what he did deserves permanent banishment however. if you go through this process and still feel like he's the best guy for the job, do you just ignore that?
I obviously don't expect that to happen and would imagine like last year they will ultimately hire a non-big name from a winning org who is well regarded (like a Heck or Byrnes or Gomes). process complaints are clickbait until we see what the process produces. I don't care if cohen has all the candidates playing boar on the floor if it gets the right guy. im not surprised Beane passed but I am a little surprised Stearns doesn't seem willing to force the issue with Milwaukee. even if he doesn't want to come here at least force the issue and get a big extension. maneuvering leverage is a core skill of the job right?
a succession plan in the corporate world to sports.
The name Fortune 500 comes from the fact there are 500 companies on that list, but you are obviously not beholden to getting successors from those 500 companies (which is likely a pool of thousands depending on what role you are trying to fill). Expand to the global 2000 and then even beyond that the pool of potential extends well beyond (laughably beyond) what you would expect for the 30 MLB teams.
The only mistake the Mets made IMO, was publishing/leaking the names of unrealistic candidates because from an optics standpoint it looks bad to get publicly rejected even if the likelihood wasn't high to begin with for any of the candidates.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
if the giants had an opening right now there would be articles up within minutes saying they should try to get saban and that if they don't they are unserious.
trying for the best candidates is an obviously correct decision. managing a daily news cycle everyone will forget the second they hire someone is a very distant concern to trying to get the right person in the first place.
was reading about the Brewers search that landed them Stearns because that over the top Mets shill Goodfundiesbrian was suggesting Doug Melvin was responsible for landing Stearns so Melvin would be a good hire... anyway... he was in no way involved but their process was fascinating. They hired a firm called Korn Ferry that helped him put together a list of 44 names, he then whittled down that list based on 40 criteria and how he weighed them, finally he sat down with one rep from Korn Ferry and 2 members of his own FO to come up with Stearns.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
was told yesterday the idea of going with "just" a GM and not a POBO is seen as very iffy. The feeling is a top young candidate is not going to want to come here to be GM under Sandy (again) while his assistant's have already been handpicked (including Sandy's own son). It's expected a "top" young name like Gomes would pass on such a setup even if the Dodgers allowed him to leave (it's been rumored he might be promoted to GM to stop this regardless).
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
was reading about the Brewers search that landed them Stearns because that over the top Mets shill Goodfundiesbrian was suggesting Doug Melvin was responsible for landing Stearns so Melvin would be a good hire... anyway... he was in no way involved but their process was fascinating. They hired a firm called Korn Ferry that helped him put together a list of 44 names, he then whittled down that list based on 40 criteria and how he weighed them, finally he sat down with one rep from Korn Ferry and 2 members of his own FO to come up with Stearns.
Korn Ferry is huge firm and I'd be shocked if Cohen hasn't used them countless times as well as probably all of their top competitors. I'd be shocked if he doesn't have personal relationships with the CEOs of most of them.
This search is 100% on Cohen. He has every resource necessary to find someone good and more experience/time to operate than last year. There are no excuses for not finding a strong candidate. Unless his heart was set on leading his own thing, if there was any price to get Theo on board he should have done that.
the Brewers mode, the search was done by the owner, the COO, somebody from the league's ownership advisory board and Korn Ferry (a firm they hired). There was no need for a "Sandy Alderson" for the owner to find a top young name. In fact, Melvin (who did stay on as a special assistant) was not involved in the process at all, nor did he take meetings with candidates. No reason Cohen couldn't/shouldn't follow this model.
don't personally believe the Doug Melvin or Dorian Boyland stuff (Boyland in particular would be a truly absurd hire, to the point it's unbelievable, he has less credentials than Brodie did...)
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
Having a wealth of experience with probably almost every executive in baseball doesn't mean he can make someone make any decision. I also said Beane seemed the biggest long shot of the top 3 and had Milwaukee not blocked again they would have had conversations with the other 2.
The results of this search are on Cohen. Working for him is the entire sales pitch and he writes the check.
and yes I still see zero downside to Sandy's involvement. With him they can still utilize whatever other resources they want to run the search (be it a consulting firm, MLB, whoever) and it's been continually made clear that it's understood in the industry he has no interest in being involved in the baseball day to day. the choice with sandy is the search running with him or without. If you choose without who is the preferred person for Cohen to hire to run it? call theo back?
think Sandy and his son being part of the front office is ideal? and if they go the "GM only" route, who is the GM's boss? Again, it would be Sandy, he's suddenly going to be both the boss and hands off?
aren't surprised Beane refused to even speak to Cohen? I am. The idea was Sandy was such an enticement for Beane. To not even agree to speak to Cohen? I think most found that to be a surprise.
have to wonder how many more names the Mets are going to ask permission to speak to when it comes to guys who could be blocked or have turned down jobs before. If Byrnes says no (turned down the Phillies) and Levine says no (also turned down the Phillies) at what point does it become actually embarrassing to Cohen personally? Byrnes for example reportedly prefers the west coast. Nothing you can do about that but if Cohen is "O-7" with 2 off-seasons and lands on a Michael Hill etc... that's not a good look.
what do you think consulting firms do in specialized searches
to have enough understanding of the subject matter they are hiring for?
in my experience they contract with people who have the relevant experience in those fields (like Sandy) and then package that up into whatever their secret sauce process is.
at the end of the day any search is a competent as the people involved in the decision. owners almost never have that competence themselves so they have lean on someone else.
who would you prefer that person to be? naming a consultancy is a straw-man. it's window dressing a professional process without any proven track record of improving odds of success hiring talent for pro sports. id personally take a successful and respected industry veteran over a consultancy. especially one with a unique familiarity of the organization.
you think most teams need previous 70+ year old heads of team to be a part of said search? How about given their (Sandy's) hiring track record? No consideration there? How have other teams been able to handle this without a "Sandy"? Do you think in an ideal world a Byrnes has a Sandy "above" him and Sandy's son as an assistant GM? Regardless of Bryn Alderson's merits or Ian Levin's merit's, in an ideal world does that seem like that's common? Doug Melvin promotes his son to assistant GM, stays on as team president, hires somebody under him to work with his son?
put it this way, how many of the best teams in baseball are run by "very young" people nowadays?
Here are the ages of the heads of the "best' teams this year
Alex Anthopoulos-44
Andrew Friedman-44
Chaim Bloom-38
James Click- 43
Rick Hahn 50
Brian Cashman is the elder statesman of the group at 54 years old
It's a very young mans game (Melvin just noted that), why is Sandy Alderson some sort of asset in identifying these types? He was an advisor with the A's? So Billy Owens might be a guy he has insight into. Otherwise how often is he even interacting with the Brandon Gomes (4th in command) types in LAD? My guess is almost never.
"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
again dan pick who you would want running any search
and im not just saying out of mets people. you are now owner of an expansion team, who are you picking to run your search?
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
RE: again dan pick who you would want running any search
and im not just saying out of mets people. you are now owner of an expansion team, who are you picking to run your search?
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
John Ricco has been with the Mets since 2005, Ian Levin 2005, you don't think those 2, and Tommy Tanous (2010, running the draft since 2012, worked in Toronto and Texas), Marc Tramuta (also 2010, also Toronto) + Omar Minaya (back working with the team, advocated the Mets hiring Stearns in the first place) a consulting firm would be enough to head a search? I guess strongly agree to disagree.
is probably getting tedious for people to read but allow me to ask this final question.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
You'd have a situation where you got no say on the manager and have Sandy and his son looking over your shoulder the whole time. No thanks.
I assume you mean the POBO or GM job? Because I'm sure plenty of guys will take any managerial job they are offered. I know Rojas didn't work out but quite frankly, it feels like manager can be a relatively late hire and still be fine.
RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
Link - ( New Window )
Good graphic... but our director of baseball analytics predicts Oscar winners... do theirs!?
RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Quote:
It really was that quick and bold. Stu Sternberg already had complete confidence in his former Goldman Sachs colleague Matt Silverman and, one meal later, had been charmed by Andrew Friedman’s wit and smarts. No one in Tampa Bay knew it at the time but these three men, along with another Silverman friend Brian Auld, would take the Devil Rays from ridicule to the World Series in a handful of seasons.
In the months before the meeting at the diner, Friedman had sent letters to all 30 teams looking for a job. When he finally got an interview with the Indians for an internship, he finished second.
A little more than a year later, at 28, he was the head of baseball operations in Tampa Bay.
There's a market inefficiency there that Cohen can take advantage of. He can throw money at building a large analytics department filled with smart candidates - and NYC has a pull for that type of candidate. Link - ( New Window )
RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case.
I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
If I'm reading the FO piece from @AnthonyDiComo correctly, unlike the NFL @MLB teams are not obligated by rule to allow FO members to interview for jobs deemed promotions, and rather it's a courtesy usually observed #Mets
RE: RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Pat Ragazzo
@ragazzoreport
·
51s
For what It's worth, Carlos Beltran declined to discuss the Mets' managerial vacancy with me upon request
This decision is obviously for the POBO to make, but Beltran's current interest in managing again is currently unknown. He has kept a low profile since the Mets fired him
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case.
I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
For a very long time (basically until this decade) sports executives were basically among a very select few who were on a merry go round. In the last couple decades there have been a lot of outside the box with hires. younger, non traditional backgrounds. Those people (like Stearns and Theo and Depo and others) had been working their way up to those positions since the 90's and there are younger versions of them out there right now waiting to be hired.
the challenge as is ever the case is choosing who the right ones are and who they aren't.
the expanding talent pool is a very good thing that has made the game smarter overall and undeniably opened the door to a larger talent pool - but i dont think that has really changed the odds of successful hires for leadership positions in any sport. For every Sean McVay there have been 10 Jim Zorn/eric managini/chip kellys. sports are zero sum, immediate gratification, public beheadings, businesses mostly are not. Out of 32 GMs and coaches only a very small handful are successful most years.
BVW was an outside the box hire, and a very successful executive adjacent to being in an MLB FO. And his trade was one 99% of the met fans on this board knew was a disaster day 1.
it seems like there's always impulse to say "how hard can it be to find a smart talented GM" but just looking at the landscape of all pro sports it's not easy. or else more organizations would do it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
thing about the Cano trade was "everybody" hated it when it happened and initially the report was the Mets were getting significantly more money from Seattle in the deal, so it went from bad to worse while the % of people who liked the deal had to be less than 25% (and that's with a HOF caliber 2b and a top closer) being part of the deal aka "name" players. 100% not looking to rehash the trade, I just remember thinking "damn, Seattle is giving up a lot of money to move him" but nope, not really lol
but I still maintain that it's not easy because of the small talent pool.. not that it's just hard to select the talent..
Want to take BVW as an example? Baseball player who went to Stanford on scholarship. Was he smart enough to go to Stanford without baseball? Who knows?
Let's give him the benefit of doubt and say he IS really smart and talented. He then had to decide to turn down guaranteed 6 figure jobs to take an entry level position with the Bulls and then a sports agency.. something that very few people in his spot would do because the path is so long and arduous and there are only a handful of gigs on that career path that result in wealth...
Or... let's say that he isn't really that smart.. that his name is "Brodie" and he has a Stanford degree, looks good in a suit, and he's just really personable... OR maybe he knew someone, like Sandy Alderson's son does...
I still think the talent pool they are picking from is probably more of the 2nd scenario than the first.. and BVW might be the perfect example of it.
"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
Quote:
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
Quote:
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
Uh, I hate to break it to you but Andy Martino is well known to be a company/team shill. This idea he's some newsbreaker is ridiculous. He was the one who kept insisting Beane was a very real option and now is claiming they may pounce quickly on Baez... who pray tell would be making that decision if not Sandy? Sandy flat out said he will have a "seat at the table". Who else has seats? The assistant GM's are... Bryn ALDERSON (his son) Ian Levin (who has worked with Sandy for 9 years) and John Ricco. You don't see anything strange about that?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.
all due respect but you've had a mega-pivot here. You insisted Sandy would be this voice that would get BIG people interested in Cohen. That has not happened and likely won't (what "big" names remain? Don't give me Josh Byrnes as some huge get if that were to happen, whether it were to work out or not, you don't need Sandy Alderson to land somebody of that ilk), Brandon Gomes? 4th in command with the Dodgers. You flat out admitted if they struck out on the big names it would be a disappointment and that Sandy would help secure that.. he couldn't even get Cohen a MEETING with Beane. You're pivoting and that's fine but Sandy being here with a "seat" with his son also having a "seat" and Ricco/Levin also having "seats" absolutely seems strange for somebody coming in. How could it not?
"Industry chatter was that both Beane and Stearns were at least open-minded about the possibility of talking to Steve Cohen."
Beane said no thank you to his mentor before the Mets even asked for permission.
The Mets need Sandy Alderson and his son here in order to land the remaining names? Really? One year of Sandy Alderson knowing Steve Cohen is what's going to be a deciding factor? A season in which the Mets were a joke, the culture was questioned and the owner took hits for his use of twitter? Again, you insisted Sandy was going to help land some big fish. Didn't happen or some close. His value is what? Brandon Gomes has zero connection to Sandy Alderson, they needed Sandy here to land a guy like that? Why?
"On the day of thumbgate, it was a near-certainty that Baez would soon be a former Met. Now, according to league sources, there is a real chance that Baez and the Mets will agree early in the offseason on a contract extension that would install him at second base for years to come."
So... if there is not a head of baseball decisions, and Sandy isn't going to be involved in this.. then where is this coming from? The current regime no? Not thin air.
is probably getting tedious for people to read but allow me to ask this final question.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
Eric,
You also neglected to respond to this. I'm genuinely curious your thoughts.
Dan I know you're very down on the search but im not pivoting
Sorry I won't call the search a failure before we even know how it ends. I posted above earlier that if they end up with anyone resoundingly worse than Porter it will be a failure - but I have said from the beginning the search is entirely on Cohen. If he fails it will be on him. Sandy is tool he retains at his disposal and one whom I agree with him has value. That value is that he's respected. Being respected doesn't mean you can make people's decisions for them.
they got the meeting with Theo which means there was a chance for it to be a fit.
I never thought beane was a good fit and said so even though I'd have still tried to ask like they did.
Stearns appears unwilling to force the issue out of Milwaukee and the information on his contract status evolved to say he had some kind of vesting option so his situation wasn't as clean as originally reported.
regardless they did the right thing trying to go for those 3. or do you disagree just because it didn't work out? or think they could have done something differently to get 1 of those 3?
Sorry I won't call the search a failure before we even know how it ends. I posted above earlier that if they end up with anyone resoundingly worse than Porter it will be a failure - but I have said from the beginning the search is entirely on Cohen. If he fails it will be on him. Sandy is tool he retains at his disposal and one whom I agree with him has value. That value is that he's respected. Being respected doesn't mean you can make people's decisions for them.
they got the meeting with Theo which means there was a chance for it to be a fit.
I never thought beane was a good fit and said so even though I'd have still tried to ask like they did.
Stearns appears unwilling to force the issue out of Milwaukee and the information on his contract status evolved to say he had some kind of vesting option so his situation wasn't as clean as originally reported.
regardless they did the right thing trying to go for those 3. or do you disagree just because it didn't work out? or think they could have done something differently to get 1 of those 3?
I'm actually not "down" on the search at all, I only thought Beane was realistic (and I've said as much) but to not be able to even secure a meeting with Beane is pretty terrible optics when Sandy is his mentor and the whole "point" of Sandy being here (according to you yourself) was Sandy selling Cohen to big candidates like Beane.
I'm very down on Sandy Alderson still being here and 2 assistant GM's, long time Sandy guys (one his son) getting promotions in July, yes, that yes a major downer. Why do the Mets ALWAYS have to do things in an unusual way. Why is Sandy still here, his son and 2 long-time associates (Levin/Ricco) still here as assistants? How common do you see such a thing in successful franchises?
line, of the remaining names the Mets could have hired any of them who had interest without Sandy Alderson and Co. here. Josh Byrnes is making a life decision based on Sandy Alderson saying "Cohen is a good dude, I've known him for a year, I'll vouch for him?", sorry I'm not buying that at all, nor would I view Josh Byrnes (stellar draft/development record, awful trade/signing record, poor w/L) record as some sort of "home run" on paper that keeping Sandy would suggest "we had to do it". If you're trying to pry away a guy like Antonetti, he doesn't need Sandy Alderson's POV, he's worked within MLB FO's for 23 seasons etc etc.
is probably getting tedious for people to read but allow me to ask this final question.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
Eric,
You also neglected to respond to this. I'm genuinely curious your thoughts.
I'm trying to catch up i've had a lot to respond to.
Here's my answer:
POBO should have final say on everything from his staff to the new manager. If Cohen is unwilling to do that or Sandy is unwilling to relinquish (2 things that haven't been reported by anyone) then Cohen should either name Sandy POBO or let him walk if uninterested in that level of involvement.
If they don't find a more senior POBO and hire a younger executive as a first time GM like they did with Porter last year it's more of a gray area.
If Theo or Beane agreed to come here both would have been part owners with discretion to literally do whatever they wanted. Sandy's presence wasn't impacting them being a fit with Cohen or wanting this job.
Stearns has been blocked 2 years in a row by his team but the need to be blocked implies he had some level of interest if he weren't blocked. I'm very curious to see what ends up happening with an extension in Milwaukee.
they end up hiring a GM because they didn't find the right POBO, how is anybody really going to believe Sandy isn't heavily involved? Are they really turning over the entire team to a guy like Gomes with 2 years of being an assistant GM? (Remember, Cohen's quote he doesn't want to pay people to learn on the job). The truth is, nobody should have been promoted in July and everything evaluated when the season was over. Sandy should have kicked himself up into a special assistant to the owner, or an advisor role. Alderson's son and Levin may yet be worthy of MLB FO jobs but it sure makes things "strange" to come into a situation where
Tanous, Tramuta, Alderson (and son), Ricco, Levin are already in place (not to mention have had a year to interact with the owner and be in his ear). Friedman didn't ride into LA with an entire FO already in place. Obviously, if they hire a POBO he'll bring in some of his own people but this is far less than ideal.
I'll keep hammering home... I'd hope to land one of the Twins duo and offer them full autonomy. They have 2 top notch young names, one might bite at having their own show to run. Either one would be a home run
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.
Last year when asked about a model he was interested in, Cohen used the Dodgers. He talked at length about wanting to build a pipeline of smart people internally and I believe there were articles written about some specific investments made - and how it was a big part of his successes at p72/SAC to hire the brightest both externally from the market and internally via development.
If I'm remembering right Zack Scott's main purview under Porter was supposed to be assembling the analytics team. Investing in a best in class front office top to bottom is one of Cohen's day 1 stated objectives and simply not something that can be done quickly (or before hiring the leader of that organization in the first place).
I think a helpful exercise for many in this thread would be to ask themselves how they'd feel about the direction of the franchise today if Jared Porter hadn't taken a picture of his dick and sent it to someone 5 years ago. And then also realize how insane the ripple effects were for this franchise from the latter event.
None of us have any idea if last offseason and season would have ended up differently. I think one of the last things porter was supposedly close to doing was signing Kike Hernandez. But forgetting whether or not the outcome of the season would have been different just think about what we all thought they had hired with him - a young, bright, forward thinking executive from the Theo tree with rings and recent successes who was already in progress hiring young, bright, forward thinking executives from other teams with similar resumes.
the only silver lining was the prospect of going straight to the source and landing a big fish in Theo (or 1 of the others, but imo Theo was the guy). Cohen got the meeting with Theo and if there's anything I'm disappointed in it's that he didn't close him.
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.
Last year when asked about a model he was interested in, Cohen used the Dodgers. He talked at length about wanting to build a pipeline of smart people internally and I believe there were articles written about some specific investments made - and how it was a big part of his successes at p72/SAC to hire the brightest both externally from the market and internally via development.
If I'm remembering right Zack Scott's main purview under Porter was supposed to be assembling the analytics team. Investing in a best in class front office top to bottom is one of Cohen's day 1 stated objectives and simply not something that can be done quickly (or before hiring the leader of that organization in the first place).
I think a helpful exercise for many in this thread would be to ask themselves how they'd feel about the direction of the franchise today if Jared Porter hadn't taken a picture of his dick and sent it to someone 5 years ago. And then also realize how insane the ripple effects were for this franchise from the latter event.
None of us have any idea if last offseason and season would have ended up differently. I think one of the last things porter was supposedly close to doing was signing Kike Hernandez. But forgetting whether or not the outcome of the season would have been different just think about what we all thought they had hired with him - a young, bright, forward thinking executive from the Theo tree with rings and recent successes who was already in progress hiring young, bright, forward thinking executives from other teams with similar resumes.
the only silver lining was the prospect of going straight to the source and landing a big fish in Theo (or 1 of the others, but imo Theo was the guy). Cohen got the meeting with Theo and if there's anything I'm disappointed in it's that he didn't close him.
That's a bit simplistic don't you think? It's suggesting Porter (if not for the dick pic) was a guarantee to be good in this role. I was VERY high on him but let's not pretend it was a given. Josh Byrnes was viewed as a TOP young mind, completely failed his first 2 shots at it (Arizona/SD), not really sure why Porter was any guarantee to be any different. The Mets went into this season with 2 Alderson's, Porter, Scott, Levin, Ricco, they now have 2 Alderson's, Levin, Ricco... who/what is so amazing about what they have done so far? Ben Zauzmer leading the analytics department? Let's also remember Cohen wanted La Russa and Arn Tellem to run the Dodgers, so while I'd be a complete moron to question his business acumen, his building of a baseball franchise remains to be seen, right down to targeting Sandy Alderson as his first big move.
Harris is from SF so it's hard to see him leaving or even the Mets making a guy with 2 years GM experience POBO (which would be the only way to even talk to him aka a promotion). Gomes (supposedly) will be promoted to GM with the Dodgers.
Dan I'm not saying that Porter was guaranteed to be good
I'm saying his plan/bio was seemingly what everyone is looking for. It's a total unknown whether he would have been good or bad, which in a way makes him a very good baseline for the present situation.
but if last year never happened and Jared Porter was available right now (2016 incident notwithstanding) would he check the boxes you want right now?
Porter was supposed to be #2 in command, not come in and be in charge. They couldn’t land a “big POBO” so they pivoted toward a GM that they “hoped” would move up to that status one day. This would be akin to hiring a guy like Gomes as GM this off-season.. which would lead… Sandy Alderson once again “in charge”. Even last off-season (pre-dick pics) there was some fantasy of Theo coming on board this off-season in part because Porter would be here as GM. Would a Porter type check all of the GM boxes? Yes. Would I be a happy with Porter type and Sandy as the guy “on top” of him again in 2022? Absolutely not.
Ignoring the fact the Dodgers seem likely to keep him, if they went into the season with Gomes as “the hire” as GM and Sandy the president, you’d honestly be thinking “job well done” on paper?
Disappointment with the Mets (if it’s not obvious) is not “striking out” on the 3 big targets (disappointing Sandy couldn’t even secure a meeting…) but rather the disjointed/odd FO setup that I’ve banged on throughout this thread
. I’m not “boo boo those were the only 3” I’m “boo hoo, I’m disappointed Sandy is still here with his son in an elevated position”
and at this point last year I didn't know much about porter either. Porter seemed to be tracking towards a promotion to POBO at the time he got fired and everything pre-firing seemed positive.
I don't care about titles - just make a strong enough hire to be the day to day leader of the baseball side. Strong enough to be the one leading a fresh new manager search and start building out a FO like Porter was as an example.
I don't have much concern about Sandy or his ego micro managing if they hire a strong leader (as Porter appeared to be and Scott appeared not to be). I don't recall anyone saying they had issues working with him in his decade here or rumors from elsewhere. I believe him when he has said repeatedly that he is looking to offload as much of the baseball ops job as he can.
And I'm almost positive I'd prefer a Sandy/Heck or Sandy/Gomes type arrangement over a more middling but experienced exec like Michael Hill who seems to not be at all in demand.
Gomes has spent 2 seasons as an assistant GM, 4th in command in LA, you honestly think Sandy is going to just hand things over to somebody like that? Or it’s ideal for him to have Sandy and his son as 2 of his “cabinet”? I guess agree to disagree. Some young upstart having Sandy and his son there is going to be in a very rough spot.
Gomes has spent 2 seasons as an assistant GM, 4th in command in LA, you honestly think Sandy is going to just hand things over to somebody like that? Or it’s ideal for him to have Sandy and his son as 2 of his “cabinet”? I guess agree to disagree. Some young upstart having Sandy and his son there is going to be in a very rough spot.
I think we have no idea who Sandy is talking to. This time last year we thought we were hiring Chris Young or Billy Owens.
If I were betting on it (and im not bc we have no idea) he will end up with someone like Heck, or one of the twins guys you like, or maybe even one of the guys from Cleveland. Someone we've all heard of but aren't talking about.
I don't recall seeing the name Porter before he was named last year and certainly not connected as a front runner. And I don't think we heard Zack Scott's name either, who was not only a finalist but obviously was also willing to take a lesser role.
I sincerely enjoy your commentary - i know you guys are debating but it is the only Mets talk I am reading. The Twins guys you are referring to, one is Thad Levine is the other guy Derek Falvey (he is already PoBO for Twin), is he the other guy you guys would like the Mets to seek?
(Who interestingly enough has been more than once praised by Andy Martino, who Eric likes)
Via twitter
“ Text I received from a baseball source on the Mets front office search, “Who is going to want to sign up to be the meat in an Alderson sandwich.”
I sincerely enjoy your commentary - i know you guys are debating but it is the only Mets talk I am reading. The Twins guys you are referring to, one is Thad Levine is the other guy Derek Falvey (he is already PoBO for Twin), is he the other guy you guys would like the Mets to seek?
I think Falvey would be an extreme long shot but they have two “stud” executives between he and Falvey. One is going to eventually want to have their own team
(Who interestingly enough has been more than once praised by Andy Martino, who Eric likes)
Via twitter
“ Text I received from a baseball source on the Mets front office search, “Who is going to want to sign up to be the meat in an Alderson sandwich.”
Seidler
“ Been hearing this (well, less funny, but…) a lot in the past few weeks. Mike’s tweets have been extremely on point this entire search”
Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
“But there’s another potential issue lurking, regarding the curious timing of the promotion of Alderson’s son, Bryn, who along with Ian Levin was promoted to assistant general manager this summer when the Mets didn’t have a GM or president of baseball operations. Bryn, who joined the organization as a scout in late 2011, was previously scouting director.“
But hey what do I know….
RE: Seidler is a clown who regularly beclowns himself
Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
And Britt Ghiroli who has broken major stories for the Athletic? What’s her flaw?
RE: Seidler is a clown who regularly beclowns himself
Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
Eric.. his DAD promoted him in July.. you don’t see any issue with that? All of these people are lying stating they are hearing it’s a concern? Britt Ghiroli couldn’t be any more respected throughout baseball.
Sandy Alderson has said his preference would be to transition fully to the business side. But there is skepticism within the industry that it would even be feasible, and some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position on the baseball side regardless. The dynamic of having a high-powered father-son duo is a potentially concerning component for any new front-office hire, one that sources say has adversely come into play before in the Mets’ current organizational structure. Who, some wonder, would really hold the power to make organizational decisions?
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
Not to be discounted is the possibility the Mets would hire a “name” front office leader who would bring gravitas to the position, but not necessarily a strong baseball operations résumé, and then surround that person with a general manager and staff well versed in the nuts and bolts.
The Mets, under their previous ownership, tried that tactic three years ago when Brodie Van Wagenen, an agent, was hired as the general manager. Van Wagenen was fired upon Cohen’s arrival last November.
In his bid to buy the Dodgers before the 2012 season, Cohen planned to hire Tony La Russa as his president of baseball operations. There is the thought that Cohen could seek a prominent name to set the vision for the organization while letting the general manager handle the daily duties.
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
again there's 30 years of history of Sandy as an executive have there been any negative accusations about working with/for him or accuse him of being an outright liar?
what's the theory here - he's an egomaniac looking to keep his family in control except 2 of the only 3 known targets would only ever take jobs with literal ownership stake and full autonomy to do anything they wanted? how does that align?
plan A - make a splashy homerun hire
plan B - fuck that every man for himself
I suppose we are also memory holing that Sandy essentially took himself out of the GM role last time and publicly stated that he wasn't sure his performance deserved the job after he returned to health? But now he's desperate to stay involved?
Are you suggesting it’s common practice to promote your son in July when you’re known to be looking to hire a new head of baseball after the season? Are you suggesting all of these people are fabricating this story?
this quote from Britt's article is also imo dead on
Fact in Puma’s piece he suggested some thing Cohen is going to push Sandy aside and run the search himself. So why is Sandy even here again? I thought to bring some sort of gravitas? Again, all along you suggested Sandy would be some big carrot that would “sell Cohen” you have since pivoted completely. They needed Sandy Alderson here to pluck the Brewers second in command or the Dodgers 3-4th? No
RE: this quote from Britt's article is also imo dead on
Writers noting the concern of the setup, yet to see a single one suggest candidates are intrigued to join the Mets because of Sandy or interested in the Mets because of him. Beane was supposed to be that. Where are these reports?
Are you suggesting it’s common practice to promote your son in July when you’re known to be looking to hire a new head of baseball after the season? Are you suggesting all of these people are fabricating this story?
I'm suggesting that it's hyperbole intended to be salacious clickbait.
I'd wager almost every single pro sports organization has a Bryn Alderson in it. Or a Steve Belichek. Or a Chris Mara. Or a Stephen Jones. Or a Sanford Sternberg (i'll save you the 5 minutes of googling, he's a recent columbia MBA who is the TB rays director of development strategy and also the owners son).
The presence of a relation to a high ranking FO member or owner is viewed as scandalous or not almost entirely through the prism of whether or not the team is successful on the field.
A lot of chatter here ignores the fact that Cohen is
The decision maker not Anderson. If they received permission to talk to Stearns and he conveyed that he would accept gig if alderson was gone alderson would be gone. If you end up with a newbie gm then yea that’s more awkward but there are only 30 gm gigs so if you don’t have one and can get one you likely are going to take it and deal with whatever the dynamics are (which btw are present in multiple forms). Furthermore if there is someone who is a GM and they offer him president role that once more is something that a lot of current GMs would consider. They also would have certain assurances from Cohen as to what autonomy would be. It’s a lot of consternation over someone who likely won’t be with team in a year and is trying to set his son up for better roles in the future. It’s not a nothing burger but it’s overblown.
RE: RE: Seidler is a clown who regularly beclowns himself
Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
Eric.. his DAD promoted him in July.. you don’t see any issue with that? All of these people are lying stating they are hearing it’s a concern? Britt Ghiroli couldn’t be any more respected throughout baseball.
If a person's family already has (a lot of) money, or they are athletically gifted (see: BVW, on both counts), then you can't use the school they attended as a clear barometer for their aptitude.
The fact that Bryn Alderson is an Assistant GM is much more evidence of the fact that nepotism and relationships are a bigger driver than unbiased development of a robust human capital pipeline.
This is very common with small privately owned companies.
There are Private Equity firms all over the world whose business model is to identify companies that have relied on this incestual talent development model.
They find companies who were started and built by hungry, smart, passionate entrepreneurs... who then passed company leadership through to their family members who are either (1) not as talented despite their pedigree or (2) just as talented, but the world has passed the collective family unit by in terms of skills necessary to be successful (eg. a good scout 30 years ago has a son, son is just as good a scout, son has no data analytics skills).
These firms then put capable management in place and maximize value (sometimes resulting in the ultimate destruction of the business, sure, but adding overall economic value nonetheless)
The Epstein's and Bloom's are Unicorns. Guys who could have taken an easier path to success elsewhere, but chose to take the big risk and go for it in something they were passionate about. For every 1 of them, there are probably dozens of guys who love the sport/sports business just as much but decided to go into Investment Banking or Consulting or business management/finance in broader industries with more opportunities and less of an incestual hurdle to overcome.
RE: RE: this quote from Britt's article is also imo dead on
“Executives value three things: money, years and autonomy,” said one high-ranking baseball official. “Will they get that there (in New York)?”
That is why imo this search is very much on Cohen. As long as you put enough money and years on the table autonomy becomes self fulfilling.
The issue is obviously you aren't just writing a blank check to anyone. You have to find and get permission for the right candidates.
Wait… you’re both disputing her article AND citing a portion. That is “dead on”?
You got me here. Everything is totally binary. Articles are either 100% great where we believe everything in them equally or completely dispute everything in them. No gray area or logic needed.
and to be clear I don't dispute anything she wrote as being accurately something from a source - but it's clear within the article different things are sourced to different sources.
I value named quotes more than unnamed quotes.
And I value her description of "high-ranking baseball official" who the quote I posted was attributed to more than
"some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position" where she has no high ranking direct source attributed - just "some in the game". Whatever that means.
Sorry but not all quotes are equal and who they are attributed to matters.
RE: A lot of chatter here ignores the fact that Cohen is
The decision maker not Anderson. If they received permission to talk to Stearns and he conveyed that he would accept gig if alderson was gone alderson would be gone. If you end up with a newbie gm then yea that’s more awkward but there are only 30 gm gigs so if you don’t have one and can get one you likely are going to take it and deal with whatever the dynamics are (which btw are present in multiple forms). Furthermore if there is someone who is a GM and they offer him president role that once more is something that a lot of current GMs would consider. They also would have certain assurances from Cohen as to what autonomy would be. It’s a lot of consternation over someone who likely won’t be with team in a year and is trying to set his son up for better roles in the future. It’s not a nothing burger but it’s overblown.
"Deal with whatever the dynamics are" is the issue. Do you honestly believe (again just using him as an example/name) Brandon Gomes is set up for success or looks at the Mets job as especially appealing (keep in mind he's already a hot name for GM's jobs) if Sandy, Sandy's son, Ian Levin and John Ricco are already part of his FO? I'm going to STRONGLY guess it's a net negative, not a "woah, I get to work with Sandy Alderson! and his son too!"
not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.
not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.
Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?
That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.
Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".
RE: RE: A lot of chatter here ignores the fact that Cohen is
The decision maker not Anderson. If they received permission to talk to Stearns and he conveyed that he would accept gig if alderson was gone alderson would be gone. If you end up with a newbie gm then yea that’s more awkward but there are only 30 gm gigs so if you don’t have one and can get one you likely are going to take it and deal with whatever the dynamics are (which btw are present in multiple forms). Furthermore if there is someone who is a GM and they offer him president role that once more is something that a lot of current GMs would consider. They also would have certain assurances from Cohen as to what autonomy would be. It’s a lot of consternation over someone who likely won’t be with team in a year and is trying to set his son up for better roles in the future. It’s not a nothing burger but it’s overblown.
"Deal with whatever the dynamics are" is the issue. Do you honestly believe (again just using him as an example/name) Brandon Gomes is set up for success or looks at the Mets job as especially appealing (keep in mind he's already a hot name for GM's jobs) if Sandy, Sandy's son, Ian Levin and John Ricco are already part of his FO? I'm going to STRONGLY guess it's a net negative, not a "woah, I get to work with Sandy Alderson! and his son too!"
Did you get the feeling Jared Porter was not set up for success last year when he was hired? Did he seem encumbered from bringing over people he trusted into prominent roles? Honest questions.
not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.
Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?
That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.
Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
will never know how well Porter was set up for success because he was unable to do his job (his own fault, not suggesting that's on Sandy) but how can I "prove" Sandy would have stepped aside and let Porter run the show when it wasn't allowed to happen? What we do know is Sandy was the final decision maker on baseball decisions once Porter was let go. Scott did the leg work, brought moves to Sandy (and presumably the major ones then to Cohen).
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
be noted the role Scott was hired for, is now filled by Sandy's son and Ian Levin. So it's questionable how much "hiring" a new guy will even have. Will they have 3 assistant GM's? Why? If not, he's inheriting his FO? Even Brodie was allowed to bring on his own assistant GM (Adam Guttridge), as was Porter (Scott). The Mets have their assistant Gm's in place AND Sandy.
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
So you disagree with me that you suggested for months Sandy would be a major asset in reeling in a "big name" major hire because of his gravitas and now it's clear there may be some concerns with the FO having 2 Alderson's in major roles, and that the tier of guy they land likely didn't need Sandy Alderson here to come here? Deep down, you think the Mets would have been worse off if Sandy announced on the final day of the season he was retiring?
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
·
2h
No. 1 in the Mets org on the baseball ops side clearly doesn’t mean actually final decision maker. Sandy Alderson has been the final baseball arbiter running the show since he came back. The owner has no patience and talks too much. And you’re not hiring your own staff below
be noted the role Scott was hired for, is now filled by Sandy's son and Ian Levin. So it's questionable how much "hiring" a new guy will even have. Will they have 3 assistant GM's? Why? If not, he's inheriting his FO? Even Brodie was allowed to bring on his own assistant GM (Adam Guttridge), as was Porter (Scott). The Mets have their assistant Gm's in place AND Sandy.
more projection based on nothing.
the LAD have like 20 director level or higher people listed in their baseball opps department including 6 VP's in player ops a senior vp and a president.
the Mets baseball opps department is right now lists just 5 full timers above coordinator including 4 vps (Scott on leave, Tanous, Levin, and Alderson).
All 3 of the mets AGMs have been with the club for a decade or more and had they not promoted Levin/Alderson they would have had just Tanous + Scott, which likely would have been the fewest of any FO in baseball. I don't think it's a coincidence that they were promoted into their roles near the deadline and the draft when there was likely a lot more busy work than during the rest of the season. functionally someone had to do that work and they likely rewarded long term employees they value with pay bumps in accordance with work they were already doing.
be noted the role Scott was hired for, is now filled by Sandy's son and Ian Levin. So it's questionable how much "hiring" a new guy will even have. Will they have 3 assistant GM's? Why? If not, he's inheriting his FO? Even Brodie was allowed to bring on his own assistant GM (Adam Guttridge), as was Porter (Scott). The Mets have their assistant Gm's in place AND Sandy.
more projection based on nothing.
the LAD have like 20 director level or higher people listed in their baseball opps department including 6 VP's in player ops a senior vp and a president.
the Mets baseball opps department is right now lists just 5 full timers above coordinator including 4 vps (Scott on leave, Tanous, Levin, and Alderson).
All 3 of the mets AGMs have been with the club for a decade or more and had they not promoted Levin/Alderson they would have had just Tanous + Scott, which likely would have been the fewest of any FO in baseball. I don't think it's a coincidence that they were promoted into their roles near the deadline and the draft when there was likely a lot more busy work than during the rest of the season. functionally someone had to do that work and they likely rewarded long term employees they value with pay bumps in accordance with work they were already doing.
Fewest of any team? Why wouldn't the new head of the organization be allowed to bring in his own guys and/or decide who receives promotions? Promoting them to assistant GM in JULY when you KNEW you were bringing in somebody else to run the show isn't strange to you? They also have John Ricco/Marc Tramuta/Tanous. The rush to promote was in a word "strange".
Yes Dan I think the mets search would be worse off without Sandy
I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
So you disagree with me that you suggested for months Sandy would be a major asset in reeling in a "big name" major hire because of his gravitas and now it's clear there may be some concerns with the FO having 2 Alderson's in major roles, and that the tier of guy they land likely didn't need Sandy Alderson here to come here? Deep down, you think the Mets would have been worse off if Sandy announced on the final day of the season he was retiring?
I asked you yesterday who the best alternatives were and the best you could come up with were Omar, Ricco, or just hiring a consulting firm like KF.
I feel infinitely more confident that Sandy will find someone better than those alternatives.
I never said Sandy would guarantee success or be the reason someone takes this job. He checks a box the others don't. He doesn't check every box.
I'm as disappointed they didn't get 1 of the big 3 as anyone else but I'm glad they tried.
Not sure what else I can say except let's see who they hire. You are entitled to feel however you would like but I think there's a much better chance you will like who they hire than you do.
be noted the role Scott was hired for, is now filled by Sandy's son and Ian Levin. So it's questionable how much "hiring" a new guy will even have. Will they have 3 assistant GM's? Why? If not, he's inheriting his FO? Even Brodie was allowed to bring on his own assistant GM (Adam Guttridge), as was Porter (Scott). The Mets have their assistant Gm's in place AND Sandy.
more projection based on nothing.
the LAD have like 20 director level or higher people listed in their baseball opps department including 6 VP's in player ops a senior vp and a president.
the Mets baseball opps department is right now lists just 5 full timers above coordinator including 4 vps (Scott on leave, Tanous, Levin, and Alderson).
All 3 of the mets AGMs have been with the club for a decade or more and had they not promoted Levin/Alderson they would have had just Tanous + Scott, which likely would have been the fewest of any FO in baseball. I don't think it's a coincidence that they were promoted into their roles near the deadline and the draft when there was likely a lot more busy work than during the rest of the season. functionally someone had to do that work and they likely rewarded long term employees they value with pay bumps in accordance with work they were already doing.
The Dodgers FO has 2 assistant GM's, ZERO G's one head of baseball operations, and one VP of baseball operations.
Byrnes is essentially the GM, but with the title of VP of baseball operations.
Friedman runs the team, Byrnes is the "GM", and he has 2 below him (Gomes/Finley) not really sure where you're getting this idea they have a million assistant GM's etc. They gave multiple people "VP" titles but it's things like international scouting or amateur scouting
Dan if you want to go doom and gloom before they even make a hire
I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
So you disagree with me that you suggested for months Sandy would be a major asset in reeling in a "big name" major hire because of his gravitas and now it's clear there may be some concerns with the FO having 2 Alderson's in major roles, and that the tier of guy they land likely didn't need Sandy Alderson here to come here? Deep down, you think the Mets would have been worse off if Sandy announced on the final day of the season he was retiring?
I asked you yesterday who the best alternatives were and the best you could come up with were Omar, Ricco, or just hiring a consulting firm like KF.
I feel infinitely more confident that Sandy will find someone better than those alternatives.
I never said Sandy would guarantee success or be the reason someone takes this job. He checks a box the others don't. He doesn't check every box.
I'm as disappointed they didn't get 1 of the big 3 as anyone else but I'm glad they tried.
Not sure what else I can say except let's see who they hire. You are entitled to feel however you would like but I think there's a much better chance you will like who they hire than you do.
Best I could come up with? I said at the bare minimum he had access to his own staff that it's been there for a decade (Sandy's son, Levin, Ricco, Tanous, Tramuta, + Omar). Why is 73 year old Sandy Alderson such a conduit to who the top young minds in baseball are? The Brewers didn't have a "Sandy Alderson" when their owner found Stearns, and most teams don't have a "Sandy Alderson" when hiring Sandy Alderson's "replacement" that's not the norm, newish owner or not.
RE: Dan if you want to go doom and gloom before they even make a hire
that's your right. I'm not sure why you don't think it's fair to wait to see who they hire. but I suppose that's also your right.
Eric all due respect but you went on and on about how Sandy was a major feather in the cap in landing some big name. You went as far as to admit it would be a very disappointing outcome if Sandy were unable to "sell Cohen" on one of these big names. You also cited the Dodgers FO for some reason? Outside of Byrnes being named a VP vs. a traditional GM, they have a very "normal" setup over there. They just give out VP titles to positions the Mets do not or have not.
For example, Tanous holds 2 titles in his VP role (International AND Amateur scouting), the Dodgers have that role split into 2 people, Tony DeFrancesco is a "senior advisor" with player development/scouting whereas the Dodgers have 2 VP's, one in player development and one in scouting. Their hierarchy has more bodies but no more bodies "at the top" ie GM, assistant GM etc than a regular team/ The Mets.
....
Home / Mets News / Mets Prospects Impressing in Arizona Fall League
Mets Prospects Impressing in Arizona Fall League
By Michael Mayer
Updated: October 20, 2021
Mets Prospects Impressing in Arizona Fall League
The Salt River Rafters dropped just their second game of the Arizona Fall League season on Tuesday, 4-2, to the Peoria Javelinas. It was the first with of the season for the 1-5 Javelinas.
The River Rafters took an early lead thanks to an RBI single from Mets prospect Wilmer Reyes in the second inning. Peoria took a 3-1 lead into the seventh inning when Mets prospect Carlos Cortes hit a sac fly to inch the River Rafters closer.
LF Carlos Cortes 1-for-2, BB, RBI
SS Wilmer Reyes 1-for-3, RBI, BB
Cortes has been one of the best hitters on the River Rafters with a .385 average and 1.009 OPS. He was our No. 10 Mets prospect in our most recent rankings updates.
The 23-year-old Reyes has impressed early as well, he’s hitting .308 with a .855 OPS so far.
Mets third base prospect Brett Baty got his first day off during AFL action. He’s been the catalyst thus far for the River Rafters with a .444 average and team best 1.287 OPS....
is going to be very good. Very curious to see what they do about 3b to open the year. You don't want to count on him but you also don't want to block him for multiple years unless it's a "given".
Best I could come up with? I said at the bare minimum he had access to his own staff that it's been there for a decade (Sandy's son, Levin, Ricco, Tanous, Tramuta, + Omar). Why is 73 year old Sandy Alderson such a conduit to who the top young minds in baseball are? The Brewers didn't have a "Sandy Alderson" when their owner found Stearns, and most teams don't have a "Sandy Alderson" when hiring Sandy Alderson's "replacement" that's not the norm, newish owner or not.
why does the richest owner in baseball with the resources to do anything he wants and one of the most successful executives on wall street trust Sandy Alderson more than Omar Minaya, whom he is friends with, or top tier business consultancies he's likely worked with numerous times?
I would posit the answer lies somewhere in Sandy's HOF resume and generally universal respect around the game.
The counter argument seems to be that he's a puppet master manipulating this search to his families benefit based on unnamed and unattributed rumors and the fact that his son has worked for the team for 10 years and was recently promoted.
Best I could come up with? I said at the bare minimum he had access to his own staff that it's been there for a decade (Sandy's son, Levin, Ricco, Tanous, Tramuta, + Omar). Why is 73 year old Sandy Alderson such a conduit to who the top young minds in baseball are? The Brewers didn't have a "Sandy Alderson" when their owner found Stearns, and most teams don't have a "Sandy Alderson" when hiring Sandy Alderson's "replacement" that's not the norm, newish owner or not.
why does the richest owner in baseball with the resources to do anything he wants and one of the most successful executives on wall street trust Sandy Alderson more than Omar Minaya, whom he is friends with, or top tier business consultancies he's likely worked with numerous times?
I would posit the answer lies somewhere in Sandy's HOF resume and generally universal respect around the game.
The counter argument seems to be that he's a puppet master manipulating this search to his families benefit based on unnamed and unattributed rumors and the fact that his son has worked for the team for 10 years and was recently promoted.
You have flat out stated that Cohen is a new owner and needs help making these kinds of decisions (multiple times), Cohen wanted Arn Tellem as his GM (Brodie much?) and now you are suggesting Cohen's opinion of Sandy means something? How can it be both ways?
that's your right. I'm not sure why you don't think it's fair to wait to see who they hire. but I suppose that's also your right.
Eric all due respect but you went on and on about how Sandy was a major feather in the cap in landing some big name. You went as far as to admit it would be a very disappointing outcome if Sandy were unable to "sell Cohen" on one of these big names. You also cited the Dodgers FO for some reason? Outside of Byrnes being named a VP vs. a traditional GM, they have a very "normal" setup over there. They just give out VP titles to positions the Mets do not or have not.
For example, Tanous holds 2 titles in his VP role (International AND Amateur scouting), the Dodgers have that role split into 2 people, Tony DeFrancesco is a "senior advisor" with player development/scouting whereas the Dodgers have 2 VP's, one in player development and one in scouting. Their hierarchy has more bodies but no more bodies "at the top" ie GM, assistant GM etc than a regular team/ The Mets.
Your position seems to be that the search is a disaster because the met front office is being run by nepotism and Sandy's ego under Cohen's watch?
didn't answer above, you are happy Sandy has returned for the 2022 season correct?
Yes. Not sure how many times I can say that, by your own account like 10 minutes ago I have been "going on and on about it".
We have seen him make seemingly good hires in the past and I don't think Cohen is a moron who is getting bamboozled.
Again, you flat out said Cohen couldn't do this without Sandy's help, but wouldn't that imply (in terms of baseball) Cohen doesn't really know what he's doing aka reliant on somebody else? I wouldn't use "moron" because he's a obviously a great businessman, but judge of baseball talent/executives? He very well may prove to be a moron. How would we know? Because he's very rich?
Matt Allan, who underwent Tommy John surgery during the season, is doing well, Barnes said. Barnes didn’t have an exact date for Allan’s return because that is too far off and the rehab is individualized, but the Mets expect him to return at some point next season. Allan is on track and has not experienced any setbacks.
Thomas Szapucki, who underwent ulnar transposition surgery over the summer (per MLB.com), is continuing to build up and will be back. The organization plans to have Szapucki, who debuted in the bigs in 2021, back on the mound in 2022.
(I've heard off the record Late July/August for Allan)
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
3m
#Mets prospect Brett Baty is the @MLBazFallLeague
hitter of the week. He leads the league in average (.500) and OPS (1.417).
believed the Mets would be interested in speaking to Matt Arnold, but as Brewers GM he'd have to be given the POBO title and he's only been Brewers GM for 1 season, so that would be giving the reigns to a guy who hasn't "done it" for long and worked under Stearns, which is obviously great for learning but a risk in terms of experience being a lead guy.
didn't answer above, you are happy Sandy has returned for the 2022 season correct?
Yes. Not sure how many times I can say that, by your own account like 10 minutes ago I have been "going on and on about it".
We have seen him make seemingly good hires in the past and I don't think Cohen is a moron who is getting bamboozled.
Again, you flat out said Cohen couldn't do this without Sandy's help, but wouldn't that imply (in terms of baseball) Cohen doesn't really know what he's doing aka reliant on somebody else? I wouldn't use "moron" because he's a obviously a great businessman, but judge of baseball talent/executives? He very well may prove to be a moron. How would we know? Because he's very rich?
I didn't say Cohen couldn't do it without Sandy's help - I have the exact same questions as yours that i've bolded above. He is not experienced in hiring baseball executives and would do well to have someone help him.
where we disagree is:
I think Cohen is making a good choice to have Sandy in that role.
you think Cohen is wrong because Sandy is trying to retain control, biased towards his son, etc.
both of us are just guessing until we see who they hire and we've exhausted our reasons so maybe we just wait to see who they hire and judge that hire as best we can?
fortunately for us and Baty Seidler's actual job is prospects
believe you're completely overstating the value of Sandy Alderson to this search, and quite frankly (and things may in fact change) even the suggested names are guys we have heard talked up for years (I admit I didn't know much about Gomes) but Matt Arnold was up for GM jobs for a few years now, Josh Byrnes for the better part of a decade, Scott Harris was director of baseball operations for the WS winning Cubs, which is why he's now the GM of the Giants, these aren't exactly deep dive "Sandy could help direct the search" names to anybody who follows baseball closely.
RE: fortunately for us and Baty Seidler's actual job is prospects
Seidler is sky high on Baty, has him top 25-30 in the sport.
and not the area where he usually beclowns himself.
didn't you say Seidler blocked you on twitter a few months ago over something insane?
He blocked me for saying something he interpreted as pro-Bauer (this was before the rape stuff) but unbeknownst to me his then fiance/now wife was one of Bauer's high profile "social media" targets. So I did understand his sensitivity once I spoke to him.
believe you're completely overstating the value of Sandy Alderson to this search, and quite frankly (and things may in fact change) even the suggested names are guys we have heard talked up for years (I admit I didn't know much about Gomes) but Matt Arnold was up for GM jobs for a few years now, Josh Byrnes for the better part of a decade, Scott Harris was director of baseball operations for the WS winning Cubs, which is why he's now the GM of the Giants, these aren't exactly deep dive "Sandy could help direct the search" names to anybody who follows baseball closely.
Right but didn't you say some of those guys bowed out of previous searches because of how they viewed the structures they were walking into as problematic?
I believe Porter had a similar history before taking the met job last year, right?
Let's see who they get. The result is all that matters. I've said this numerous times but for me the baseline is Porter. If they can't get someone they view as better than Porter this time around I'd literally just bring him back if I were the owner.
Anyone less appealing than Porter is a failure IMO.
believe you're completely overstating the value of Sandy Alderson to this search, and quite frankly (and things may in fact change) even the suggested names are guys we have heard talked up for years (I admit I didn't know much about Gomes) but Matt Arnold was up for GM jobs for a few years now, Josh Byrnes for the better part of a decade, Scott Harris was director of baseball operations for the WS winning Cubs, which is why he's now the GM of the Giants, these aren't exactly deep dive "Sandy could help direct the search" names to anybody who follows baseball closely.
Right but didn't you say some of those guys bowed out of previous searches because of how they viewed the structures they were walking into as problematic?
I believe Porter had a similar history before taking the met job last year, right?
Let's see who they get. The result is all that matters. I've said this numerous times but for me the baseline is Porter. If they can't get someone they view as better than Porter this time around I'd literally just bring him back if I were the owner.
Anyone less appealing than Porter is a failure IMO.
It's believed Byrnes strongly prefers the West Coast and/or needs the absolute perfect situation to leave LAD. I'm guessing/assuming he realizes his stock will never be higher and taking the wrong job now likely = his last shot doing so in such a major role. Matt Arnold was "blocked" by the Brewers from leaving as they promoted him to GM (which is what's rumored to happen with Gomes and LAD). Scott Harris, who knows? But he's from SF and has only been GM for a brief period, would be a "risky" run the entire show hire (like Arnold), I'm not suggesting "risk" means bad.
VICE PRESIDENT, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AND INTERNATIONAL SCOUTING
Carlos Rodriguez enters his 11th season with the Rays and his second as vice president of player development and international scouting. In this role, Rodriguez reports to Erik Neander and assists in all areas of baseball operations, while overseeing the club’s player development system, baseball performance science, international scouting and academy operations. From 2015 through 2019, Rodriguez served as director of international scouting, following three years as director of Latin American scouting (2012-14). During this stretch, he played a key role in scouting and signing José Alvarado, Vidal Bruján, Diego Castillo, Yonny Chirinos, Wander Franco, Moisés Gómez, Ronaldo Hernández and Jesús Sánchez, among others. Rodriguez joined the Rays in the fall of 2010 as a professional and international scout after four seasons with the Blue Jays as an area scout. In 2009, he signed Yan Gomes from Barry University, the first Brazilian-born player to reach the major leagues. Rodriguez also spent a season as an intern for the Brewers. A native of Puerto Rico, Rodriguez attended the University of North Florida where he played and served as an assistant coach. He graduated in 2004 with a degree in business, double majoring in international business and economics. He and his wife, Omayra, reside in Tampa with their daughter, Eva Marie.
We really don’t know who is leading the search. Knowing second hand from folks who worked for him I highly doubt Sandy is as integral to the hiring as one would think. If we end up in a spot where it’s apparent Sandy is still calling shots I’ll be disappointed; however, I think the reality is that he is more stewarding the process and the new president or GM will have their authority outlined by Cohen not alderson (both verbally and contractually).
Do I need Sandy as part of the oganization - absolutely not. But I am not going to lose sleep over him there since it’s more transient verse someone like Jell Wilson or one of the Maras.
Bendix has been the Rays director of baseball development since December 2015, serving essentially as a liaison between the research and development department and the rest of the organization. He started as an intern in 2009.
"He’s been a mainstay in our baseball operations group for some time now,'' Neander said. "In many respects he serves as a bridge or a conduit between our research and development concepts and a variety of other perspectives in our operation, a communicator of information really in all directions. That’s invaluable to us as we continue to grow and expand and pursue new knowledge. So that’s been a big part of his role.
"With respect to our major-league team, our player processing, the decision making that exists there, Pete has taken on more and more in that area over the last couple of years. Really, really confident with the work that he’s done, and he has been as influential in constructing our major-league roster as anybody here. More a continuation of the good work he’s done, and a recognition for that.''
have convinced themselves that Sandy Alderson is some celebrated baseball brain around MLB, and Cohen - a self-made billionaire hedge fund manager - couldn't have pulled off a takeover without Sandy's gravitas. Nor can the NYM run a successful baseball business, which essentially prints money at will, without Sandy's business acumen. Nor can they put together a .500 ballclub without the guy who's made a career out of mediocrity.
Sandy Alderson, one-of-a-kind man for all seasons.
the media didn't have Porter on the radar last year
and there were likely others who they talked to both last year and this year who fit that same description. let's see who they get, im guessing we are surprised again.
that doesn't mean im not disappointed they couldn't make Theo happen because he was the grand slam.
or that they couldn't make Beane happen even though I think he's more of a 2 run homer. though I was less surprised by that because he's said no a million times before.
i'm surprised they couldn't make Stearns happen if they really wanted him. Unlike the other 2 a blank check is a very big deal.
but the world doesn't end with those 3. they did the right thing by trying to get them and for me it's reassuring that's what they were aiming for.
the Mets are thinking about trading Mauricio if he's not moving off SS.
Seems like now is the time to allow him to learn a new position (OF would be awesome)
I suspect they believe the transition to OF is relatively "easy" vs. other spots. I'm not a scout but he looked slow (plus arm) in his movements at SS and Keith Law (who likes him a lot and previously praised the glove saw him in July and graded his SS play a 40/80, and suggested a move to 3b/OF). I also suspect this has more to do with the fact he's not really in the mix for 2022 so his rawness at the plate is what they want him to focus on. If he hits like he's capable his position will be less of a concern. If he's even a "40" at SS but hits, his trade value also is significantly higher.
We really don’t know who is leading the search. Knowing second hand from folks who worked for him I highly doubt Sandy is as integral to the hiring as one would think. If we end up in a spot where it’s apparent Sandy is still calling shots I’ll be disappointed; however, I think the reality is that he is more stewarding the process and the new president or GM will have their authority outlined by Cohen not alderson (both verbally and contractually).
Do I need Sandy as part of the oganization - absolutely not. But I am not going to lose sleep over him there since it’s more transient verse someone like Jell Wilson or one of the Maras.
this is very much my take. Sandy has been saying since his return that he is not looking to remain involved and I see very little evidence to support otherwise.
Rays model is often mentioned on the talent/development end but what they do unbelievably well is routinely hire people who are young, motivated and good at their roles. There is a reason you see so many top names as "former Rays" employees.
and Rays are two organizations whose success I'm mot sure teams like the Mets should want to emulate.
they are never expected to or pressured to win. Reaching the playoffs or having a decent season is enough success to constitute what good looks like for them.
I'd view the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, etc. models as more what you want. Sure, the Yankees haven't won in a while, but getting knocked out in the WC (or at any point) is considered a failure. A world series is the goal every single season.
that's the kind of pressure I'd like to see an owner levy on this staff.
it would influence different behavior I think from the A's and Rays.
Rays model is often mentioned on the talent/development end but what they do unbelievably well is routinely hire people who are young, motivated and good at their roles. There is a reason you see so many top names as "former Rays" employees.
and that's with their owner's son as their director of player development.
and Rays are two organizations whose success I'm mot sure teams like the Mets should want to emulate.
they are never expected to or pressured to win. Reaching the playoffs or having a decent season is enough success to constitute what good looks like for them.
I'd view the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, etc. models as more what you want. Sure, the Yankees haven't won in a while, but getting knocked out in the WC (or at any point) is considered a failure. A world series is the goal every single season.
that's the kind of pressure I'd like to see an owner levy on this staff.
it would influence different behavior I think from the A's and Rays.
Just my opinion.
PJ,
The head of the Dodgers (Friedman) was hired from the Rays. The head of the Braves flat out said his time with Friedman is a major factor in his success with Atl. Chaim Bloom... Rays, Erik Neander is considered one of the top minds in the game, Matt Arnold? hired by the Brewers from... the Rays. It's a fact the Rays FO tree has produced the best of the best.
When did the Rays ever acquire a Scherzer at the deadline as opposed to selling or exceed the luxury ever, forget about multiple years in a row.
Even this year some people claim the Rays "selling" at the deadline led to their early exit - Castillo, Hill, etc. even with the Nelson add.
I fully believe (and have read) that Friedman took what he learned in TB (including hiring of the best and brightest young minds he could find) and creating something of a "commune" with LAD. Other minds wants to join the Dodgers because of the process Friedman has implemented.
""The Los Angeles Dodgers are obviously one of the premiere organizations in the game, but the people that work here are the main draw," Anthopoulos said via conference call on Tuesday. "The ability to work with Andrew [Friedman], Farhan [Zaidi] and Josh [Byrnes] and everyone that's here.""
Zaidi headed to SF where we know the success he had this year, AA headed to the Braves and we see what they are doing
"You surround yourself with people who are really smart and really accomplished, you can get better," Anthopoulos said. "And with my experience and what I've been through, I expect to be able to help out as well."
"Ultimately Andrew does have the final say, which is the way it should be. But he's someone who values input and there is great collaboration on that end. I respect those guys so much. It's really exciting for me because I do think it's a great fit, and I think I'm going to improve myself being with them day in and day out.
"Anytime you take executives from other clubs, you're not all going to look at the world the same way. You put them all together, we can consolidate our ideas and thoughts. Hopefully it results in wins."
I agree that the Rays/A's are very different situations than the Mets
and I think that was a lesson Bloom had sort of learned the hard way up until the 2nd half this year when they went on their run. Zaidi too.
the Dodgers are the model and Cohen rightfully said so from day 1. The challenge has been finding a Friedman, which isn't really a huge surprise because so far there's really only 1 Friedman in MLB (and 1 Theo before him).
Maybe Bloom becomes the next one. Or Stearns. Or Zaidi. Or the Twins guys. Or Billy Owens. Or Heck. Or whoever. That's what this search is all about.
nothing against Heck or Owens but those are "talent" guys ie development (like Byrnes). They don't have the kind of broad experience a Zaidi or Bloom had. Doesn't mean they wouldn't be good hires but they aren't really "run the organization" type of hires.
for example was scouting director with Houston, then moved on to the Rays as a special assistant to the GM with a focus on the draft. I have no clue if he's capable of doing other things but that's not really part of his experience/resume. Owens was a player, then a scout/coach who then was promoted to director of player personal and later assistant GM. Sandy/Cohen actually opted against hiring both men as GM last time around (the job that went to Porter). Neither seem very likely to be POBO candidates this time around with their relative lack of experience in that kind of role or near the lead in an organization. Heck has an impeccable reputation as an eye for talent but also an abrasive personality (he was reportedly, and maybe Cohen would like this... told by the Rays to stop with some of his tweeting and controversial tweets)
Law recently mentioned Heck as a great candidate to be a GM somewhere. That being said, if you're only hiring a GM then who is in charge? Sandy Alderson, yet again. Heck UNDER a POBO? Sure.
Law recently mentioned Heck as a great candidate to be a GM somewhere. That being said, if you're only hiring a GM then who is in charge? Sandy Alderson, yet again. Heck UNDER a POBO? Sure.
this is where this situation is a rubiks cube.
if they think Heck (or whoever) is a big time GM/player development guru then I want that guy inside the FO. or at least the flexibility to get that guy even if there were other areas of concern where he is too green - and where imo having a Sandy around who can functionally bridge gaps is helpful.
The stated preference since day 1 has been to find the experienced president first - but by virtue of the fact that they want someone experienced there are only so many quality candidates available. Is pairing one of the experienced AND available names like Hill or Melvin with a super star young GM preferable to keeping Sandy around and remaining flexible over the next few years as contract situations play out elsewhere? For me it's not.
And for me the top priority is getting as many great baseball minds in the door as possible regardless of where their specialties and experience levels are presently.
Peter Bendix likely isn't getting a GM/POBO job right now (he's VERY young) but he's already been talked up so you know that's likely in his future.
Neander Rays
Arnold Rays
Friedman Rays
Bloom Rays
James Click (Astros GM) Rays
I think it's safe to say Andrew Friedman took his "Rays" time and used it with a bigger payroll (much bigger) quite nicely with LAD.
It's a who's who of names who came from TB
So.. to build on my earlier narratives...
What you are seeing is that the Rays (1 of 30 teams) have basically abandoned the incestuous, nepotism driven hiring model traditionally employed by privately owned MLB franchises and have replaced it with...
A corporate talent development pipeline, likely offering competitive salaries for highly talented, highly educated graduates who don't have to take a shot on an unpaid internship of low paying entry level MLB job with a chance at a handful of jobs vs guaranteed 6 digit salaries in other industries...
the Rays employ their owner's son as their director of player development so they are just as nepotistic as the rest.
FO salaries aren't as publicly available as player salaries but since Tampa doesn't spend a ton of money on anything and their retention rates of executives are if anything low since so many have been poached I doubt they are succeeding because they are paying more throughout their FO.
Tampa has succeeded by being best in breed at player development (where their owner's former Goldman Sachs/Paramount Pictures intern son works!) and by having a consistent strategy they've committed to for a long time home growing talent and maximizing their return on that talent in lieu of paying them to add more resources to adding young talent. It didn't work day 1 and the results of it being deployed at big markets were mixed (see red sox/bloom/betts trade).
Oakland's moneyball approach was similar in committing to something different than everyone else but different in how they did so.
the moral of the story imo is hire smart people who can commit to an approach that fits the team/payroll/market. the LAD model is the right one for the Mets and Cohen has been right in pursuing it. I'd guess he will be the first to agree with all of us that trying doesn't matter and the results do and on that they have failed so far.
unless you're talking about somebody else, Stu Sternberg's son does work for the Rays but he's "Director of Development strategies" and nowhere near the top of the food chain. Auld and Silverman are presidents, Neander is the BOPO Link - ( New Window )
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
·
1m
Mets announce that Carlos Carrasco underwent successful surgery yesterday to remove a bone fragment from his right elbow.
Carrasco missed a large portion of the 2021 season and posted a 6.04 ERA in 53 2/3 innings.
the Rays employ their owner's son as their director of player development so they are just as nepotistic as the rest.
FO salaries aren't as publicly available as player salaries but since Tampa doesn't spend a ton of money on anything and their retention rates of executives are if anything low since so many have been poached I doubt they are succeeding because they are paying more throughout their FO.
Tampa has succeeded by being best in breed at player development (where their owner's former Goldman Sachs/Paramount Pictures intern son works!) and by having a consistent strategy they've committed to for a long time home growing talent and maximizing their return on that talent in lieu of paying them to add more resources to adding young talent. It didn't work day 1 and the results of it being deployed at big markets were mixed (see red sox/bloom/betts trade).
Oakland's moneyball approach was similar in committing to something different than everyone else but different in how they did so.
the moral of the story imo is hire smart people who can commit to an approach that fits the team/payroll/market. the LAD model is the right one for the Mets and Cohen has been right in pursuing it. I'd guess he will be the first to agree with all of us that trying doesn't matter and the results do and on that they have failed so far.
Director of player development for the Rays is Peter Bendix. I think you are mistaken in this "big" role Sternberg's son has. Can't find a single piece suggesting anything of the sort, and his title appears about 30 names down the Rays FO page with no such major title.
Sandy "Sanford" Sternberg is in his 20's and was hired in 2019 ", as director, development strategy." which is the 10th title that shows up on the baseball operations page and not one of the officers for the team. Minor role.
im not saying he has a major role just showing nepotism exists
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
·
1m
Mets announce that Carlos Carrasco underwent successful surgery yesterday to remove a bone fragment from his right elbow.
Carrasco missed a large portion of the 2021 season and posted a 6.04 ERA in 53 2/3 innings.
Almost good news given how bad he looked.
RE: im not saying he has a major role just showing nepotism exists
everywhere. If he spends 10+ years with Tampa like Bryn Alderson has I'm sure he will have a bigger role too.
Up until July the 2 of them had the same level title despite Bryn Alderson actually having worked in baseball for 20 years.
Title's fluctuate from team to team but look how many names appear before him on the Rays page, if Cohen hires his son, it'll be a non story, if he hires his son and he's named GM then it's going to be a story.
whose background looks more aligned with the stereotypical nepotism "f up". The relatively recent grad who had short stints in finance and feature films before finding a soft landing in his dad's teams front office?
or the guy who has almost 20 years of a variety of scouting roles his resume (presumably making the exact risky choice with low pay and shitty travel you've described in this thread)?
both could be screw ups. neither could be screw ups. we don't know and it doesn't really matter.
RE: RE: im not saying he has a major role just showing nepotism exists
everywhere. If he spends 10+ years with Tampa like Bryn Alderson has I'm sure he will have a bigger role too.
Up until July the 2 of them had the same level title despite Bryn Alderson actually having worked in baseball for 20 years.
Title's fluctuate from team to team but look how many names appear before him on the Rays page, if Cohen hires his son, it'll be a non story, if he hires his son and he's named GM then it's going to be a story.
Bryn Alderson was hired 10 years ago as a scout, remained a met after Sandy left the organization, and it is within the realm of possibility deserving of any promotions he's received. they have publicly commented that his presence is a non issue on any new hires having autonomy (in the article you linked).
everywhere. If he spends 10+ years with Tampa like Bryn Alderson has I'm sure he will have a bigger role too.
Up until July the 2 of them had the same level title despite Bryn Alderson actually having worked in baseball for 20 years.
Title's fluctuate from team to team but look how many names appear before him on the Rays page, if Cohen hires his son, it'll be a non story, if he hires his son and he's named GM then it's going to be a story.
Bryn Alderson was hired 10 years ago as a scout, remained a met after Sandy left the organization, and it is within the realm of possibility deserving of any promotions he's received. they have publicly commented that his presence is a non issue on any new hires having autonomy (in the article you linked).
"They have"? Sandy... HIS FATHER has. C'mon Eric, even in defense of the Mets that's silly.
pretend Sandy Alderson is a human sack of shit and his son is a complete moron who doesn't deserve a job in baseball. Would you expect him to say something other than this?
"Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
pretend Sandy Alderson is a human sack of shit and his son is a complete moron who doesn't deserve a job in baseball. Would you expect him to say something other than this?
"Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
Any other answer would be off the wall nuts.
making a public comment for the team? if he's defending his son and making decisions in this search not cleared by Cohen I think he'd be fired on the spot.
Cohen fired Porter pretty much on the spot for less than that.
pretend Sandy Alderson is a human sack of shit and his son is a complete moron who doesn't deserve a job in baseball. Would you expect him to say something other than this?
"Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
Any other answer would be off the wall nuts.
making a public comment for the team? if he's defending his son and making decisions in this search not cleared by Cohen I think he'd be fired on the spot.
Cohen fired Porter pretty much on the spot for less than that.
Huh? Sandy was asked if his son would be an issue and he said no. What in the world would you expect him to say?
would Cohen see the future and know if 2 Alderson's in the FO would effect autonomy for a future hire? I'm truly confused by this conversation. Sandy says it WON'T be an issue, aka the only answer he can give.
you don't seem to realize this but your argument against sandy
is essentially that he's manipulating the future of the club behind cohen's back.
does that seem plausible to you? do you think Cohen isn't highly aware of what's going on in this search and only checking in when Sandy books him a lunch with Theo?
think it's realistic for Sandy to have said "ya know what? It might be an issue with my son there?" honestly? As I find it hard to believe Cohen is in the room when discussing trades for Trevor Williams, I also find it hard to believe Cohen is FIRING Sandy Alderson for making this claim...
RE: you don't seem to realize this but your argument against sandy
is essentially that he's manipulating the future of the club behind cohen's back.
does that seem plausible to you? do you think Cohen isn't highly aware of what's going on in this search and only checking in when Sandy books him a lunch with Theo?
Where did I suggest such a thing? I stated having 2 HIGH ranking members of your FO be 1. A father who "previously" ran the team ya know, as recently as NOW, and 2. His recently promoted son (promoted by him) is a potential issue for potential candidates (especially those with less experience). You find this to be absurd, that's your right but I'm not sure why.
wouldn't feel kind of funny taking a job that was previously held by a guy who is still there in an "unknown" capacity (and has stated he does want a "seat at the table"), this guys son is assistant GM, and another your assistant GM's worked for the old guy for a decade? You wouldn't think "hmmm, it could potentially be an issue when we are debating moves and the room isn't full of people I picked and 2 of which are father in son"? Absolutely zero potential reservations at all, nobody could ever think about such a thing?
either you think Sandy is defending his son ahead of the team's interests in a way cohen wouldn't support.
or you think Cohen is pro-nepotism and blessing sandy keeping his son involved despite him hindering the search for a team president/gm.
there is no way on the planet Cohen is allowing anyone to promote their kid in his organization at the expense of the team and organization.
Nope. I don't think Cohen is in the "war room" when it comes to most moves and I believe Cohen (for whatever the reason) loves Sandy Alderson (was beyond quick to bring him on) so of course he's going to be comfortable with his son still on board.
just using pipeline as a guide they have 3 SP prospects who have pitched above a-ball in their top 20... JT Ginn, Thomas Szapucki and Jose Butto who I like but is a back end smallish type. Not really sure what they do with the SP. Eduardo Rodriguez would be an intriguing gamble.
wouldn't feel kind of funny taking a job that was previously held by a guy who is still there in an "unknown" capacity (and has stated he does want a "seat at the table"), this guys son is assistant GM, and another your assistant GM's worked for the old guy for a decade? You wouldn't think "hmmm, it could potentially be an issue when we are debating moves and the room isn't full of people I picked and 2 of which are father in son"? Absolutely zero potential reservations at all, nobody could ever think about such a thing?
it would entirely depend on the contract I signed and the people involved I was dealing with. The 3 known candidates they went after indicate it's a non-issue because all 3 would have required 100% complete control and 2 almost definitely would have required record setting ownership equity for a front office member. That doesn't jive with "but you also have to keep bryn alderson around even if you think he's a fuck up".
Sandy as an employee of the Mets running this search made official comments on this and specifically said autonomy was a non-issue. If the candidates they are interviewing won't have autonomy that public statement is a lie either with or without Cohen's blessing and neither seems plausible.
whose background looks more aligned with the stereotypical nepotism "f up". The relatively recent grad who had short stints in finance and feature films before finding a soft landing in his dad's teams front office?
or the guy who has almost 20 years of a variety of scouting roles his resume (presumably making the exact risky choice with low pay and shitty travel you've described in this thread)?
both could be screw ups. neither could be screw ups. we don't know and it doesn't really matter.
Both have generational wealth and are working for pride/fun anyway... there is no risk in the equation for them.
In your 20s and married with a kid and a mortgage and no rich parents? Harder to go after a gig in pro sports than other paths..
wouldn't feel kind of funny taking a job that was previously held by a guy who is still there in an "unknown" capacity (and has stated he does want a "seat at the table"), this guys son is assistant GM, and another your assistant GM's worked for the old guy for a decade? You wouldn't think "hmmm, it could potentially be an issue when we are debating moves and the room isn't full of people I picked and 2 of which are father in son"? Absolutely zero potential reservations at all, nobody could ever think about such a thing?
it would entirely depend on the contract I signed and the people involved I was dealing with. The 3 known candidates they went after indicate it's a non-issue because all 3 would have required 100% complete control and 2 almost definitely would have required record setting ownership equity for a front office member. That doesn't jive with "but you also have to keep bryn alderson around even if you think he's a fuck up".
Sandy as an employee of the Mets running this search made official comments on this and specifically said autonomy was a non-issue. If the candidates they are interviewing won't have autonomy that public statement is a lie either with or without Cohen's blessing and neither seems plausible.
You keep harping on this idea Bryn Alderson is a Jeff Wilpon 2.0, why can't it be a less than ideal situation to have the old boss, his son and a 10 year employee as 3/5, or 50% of your likely FO? Why must it be so nefarious?
guy like Stearns/Beane/Theo likely doesn't give a shit about 2 Alderson's in the FO, a guy like Bobby Heck or that ilk, with limited (or no) experience running the show, or building his own FO, very well might. Further, for whatever the reason Bobby Heck has been passed over multiple times, a guy like that is also more likely to be accepting of a less than ideal setup. He's not "old" but at soon to be 56, he's likely as "hot" as he's ever going to be to be a first time GM etc. Not all of these guys are in the same position, nor can they afford to be as picky. I have no clue what kind of money Byrnes makes but my guess is it's substantial given the Dodgers payroll and his ability to turn down other jobs.
of note, despite Cohen being a bit of a big mouth, it remains unclear who he knows around baseball. It's been implied he doesn't know much of anyone (thus rushing to hire Sandy and "needing" Sandy to find somebody else) but reportedly it was Cohen who suggested Heck last season. Now it's of course possible Cohen was "fanboy hiring" the same way any of us do, and simply read the same stuff but that was interesting.
because Bryn Alderson and Sandy Alderson are currently employed by Cohen. Candidates are either intrigued at the idea of enriching themselves and running 1 of the few big spending teams in MLB or they are not. that is the headline. Gammons made it sound like Theo would never work for Cohen and he still took a meeting.
Any and all concerns any candidate has (Alderson family or otherwise) are fair game when they or their agents talk to Cohen and that is where the responsibility is on Cohen to do whatever it takes to land the right guy - including clean house of the aldersons if that's what it takes. It is ultimately his decision, his franchise, his money, his investment to grow.
If nothing else Sandy's comment today is an acknowledgment that they know autonomy is crucial. Which he's also indicated several times before since returning. I've yet to see anything that makes me think these lightly sourced speculation is anything more than clickbait designed to elicit clicks/shares from the very many met fans who don't like Sandy at the moment. mission accomplished I suppose.
because Bryn Alderson and Sandy Alderson are currently employed by Cohen. Candidates are either intrigued at the idea of enriching themselves and running 1 of the few big spending teams in MLB or they are not. that is the headline. Gammons made it sound like Theo would never work for Cohen and he still took a meeting.
Any and all concerns any candidate has (Alderson family or otherwise) are fair game when they or their agents talk to Cohen and that is where the responsibility is on Cohen to do whatever it takes to land the right guy - including clean house of the aldersons if that's what it takes. It is ultimately his decision, his franchise, his money, his investment to grow.
If nothing else Sandy's comment today is an acknowledgment that they know autonomy is crucial. Which he's also indicated several times before since returning. I've yet to see anything that makes me think these lightly sourced speculation is anything more than clickbait designed to elicit clicks/shares from the very many met fans who don't like Sandy at the moment. mission accomplished I suppose.
Eric,
Sandy was asked the autonomy question. I'm really unclear why you're so hung up on his statement as if provided real clarity. He was asked about it and he said it would be a non-issue. The alternative would have been "no comment".
don't see the potential for a guy like Heck who has never been given a chance to potentially walk into a less than ideal situation because he wants to be a Gm after waiting for a long time. I do. But this consistent praise of the Mets SAYING it won't be an issue, is very strange. What other answer could Sandy have given?
Well thought of, worked at different levels, over 10 years experience.
Will he want to come though? He's in a high position already, well compensated and working 10 minutes from where he grew up and his childhood home.
Scott Harris would be a home run (on paper) but as you noted, he's from SF, is already a GM and has very little experience at that level so you're bringing him in to be the POBO and learn on the job. Doesn't mean it can't be done but 2 seasons as GM, 1 season as an assistant GM... straight to running an entire organization (remember he's had Farhan Zaidi as his boss, so this would be a major step up to "the guy".
only real potential selling point for Harris would be "this is completely your team, hire who you want, do what you want" but that's a big "offer" for a guy of his upper level experience and again, not to rehash this Sandy stuff even further, how does he do that with so many people already in place? I guess hiring his own GM would be a start.
also curious about this... the Mets took a meeting with Kyle Boddy late in the season... why? Wouldn't such a hire be something that would be something you'd have your new POBO decide? What was the thought process there knowing there would be a new person in charge? You don't hire a new pitching coordinator (which is a team philosophy type of position) before hiring the guy who will implement his own philosophies. Why was that initiated?
"That also aligns with finding a compromise point between the earlier proposed low point ($17 million per season) and the proposed high point ($25 million per). The longer the deal is for Báez, the lower the average annual value. You can imagine a seven-year deal at $21 million per year ($147 million total) or six at $22.5 million per year ($135 million total) or five at $24 million each ($120 million total)."
“ The Mets are hoping to be able to hire their Baseball President first but if the search doesn’t go quickly haven’t ruled out hiring a manager first. They had been hopeful Billy Beane would take the President job but are now forming a new list.” idiotic if true, I’m not buying it but who (and who is doing the interviewing and picking of said manager…..) sticks the new guy with a manager he didn’t pick?
Seems ridiculous (even for the Mets). Manager isn’t something that needs to be decided now. There is no “Bill Belichek” level ridiculous no-brainer to chase. It’s October!
Seems ridiculous (even for the Mets). Manager isn’t something that needs to be decided now. There is no “Bill Belichek” level ridiculous no-brainer to chase. It’s October!
Agree, it would be idiotic to hire a manager first
but here it goes anyway. shill or not they are named on the record quotes that beane didn't need to issue.
Quote:
“The only reason I would consider leaving what I’m doing now is because of Sandy Alderson and Steve Cohen,” the iconic executive vice president of the Oakland Athletics told SNY by phone from the Bay Area on Wednesday night.
That begged the question of why Beane removed himself from consideration in the Mets’ search. To him, the answer was simple: His family is more important than his career.
“Creating chaos in my children’s lives for my own ambition feels like a selfish thing to do,” Beane said.
Beane has twin girls entering the same Catholic high school that his wife attended. They are involved in sports and have built a life there.
either way theses quotes don't matter. none of the rumors matter. the only thing that matters is they get it right with whoever they do hire. Beane/Theo would have been moonshots and I think there was legitimately a chance they could have gotten one of them. Not asking would have been worse than asking and getting turned down. it makes the search harder to have to continue to look elsewhere but not impossible to still get right. Billy Beane: Working with Mets’ Sandy Alderson and Steve Cohen an 'amazing opportunity' - ( New Window )
last subject got messed up with the code it should read
was supposed to be the one guy with Sandy ties that would potentially come here. To act like him praising Sandy now is strange to say the least s that’s his mentor and he gave Bryn his first job.
dan we each wrote about 10k words today re: sandy being net +/-
and here's 1 of the top 3 candidates, not mine but some people's #1 dream candidate if I remember right, saying he considered the job in part because Sandy was here.
you are right there is nothing shocking or new in Beane's comments - which is why I've posted that Sandy is a net + ever since Cohen brought him back and separate from Beane specifically being a candidate. I doubt there's anyone he's as close with as Beane but he's been around and considered to be respected as much as just about anyone in MLB.
it is literally no different than how some viewed Sandy as a way to make Cohen more palatable to owners prior to the vote last year. people in baseball know and trust Sandy.
I suggested all along Beane was the one guy who maybe would have come. Not really sure what you expected him to say about his mentor and his former intern his mentors son? Something negative?
I suggested all along Beane was the one guy who maybe would have come. Not really sure what you expected him to say about his mentor and his former intern his mentors son? Something negative?
he could have said nothing and denied he had any interest elsewhere, the same way he has pretty much every offseason it's come up for 20 years. literally 2 weeks ago he was laughing off the rumors entirely like he hadn't even read them.
either way as I said it doesn't matter whether or not he almost came here or didn't. the only thing that matters is who they get. not who thought about coming here but didn't.
I have consistently stated and continue to think the content of what Beane put his name to - that Cohen/Alderson are appealing to work for - is true and roughly 10 million times more credible than the unattributed rumors about an Alderson family power grab. But the results of who they ultimately hire will either validate that or not far more than named or unnamed quotes. I thought Porter was a solid hire when they got him last year and I expect someone at least as good as that. Anything worse will be a failure.
We’ll see who they end up with and how true crazy rumors like Sandy hiring a manager before w POBO (Heyman) turn out to be
heyman is hit or miss but that one is particularly strange. so is the Melvin rumor. we met fans are always on edge and there's a big social media contingent that's gleeful at any piece of info they can get that can rile up the lolmets sentiment. and there are countless nick francona's we've never heard of who feel they've been wronged and are more than willing to give reporters the quote they want from "a source within the baseball world".
the most relevant data point (imo) for this year's search is last year's search. very few leaks got out during the process and it turned out there were some well established young executives in play who were nowhere on the media's radar.
we don't entirely know how good/bad they viewed their own decision after working with Porter for a few months (pre scandal) - but if they liked him I expect they will follow a similar approach and look for someone similar. Charismatic young exec with a background from one of the winning trees (Theo/LAD/TB/etc). Probably with a few more questions about text etiquette.
I’m banning myself from a single pessimistic Met comment for one week if the Knicks win this game. Self imposed
pretty sure you just guaranteed the reintroduction of Terry Collins as manager on Monday or Tuesday, 24-48 hours prior to naming Doug Melvin POBO with Bryn Alderson promoted to GM.
Bryn also announces Sanford Sernberg to backfill his AGM spot
I’m banning myself from a single pessimistic Met comment for one week if the Knicks win this game. Self imposed
pretty sure you just guaranteed the reintroduction of Terry Collins as manager on Monday or Tuesday, 24-48 hours prior to naming Doug Melvin POBO with Bryn Alderson promoted to GM.
All kidding aside Terry Collins is extremely nice, he used to go
To this bar in LIC called PJ Leahy’s and he was just one of the guys and while it was weird pretending I wasn’t kinda starstruck he was one of the nicest “celebrities” I’ve ever encountered. He remembered us when we saw him again. Not our names, but that we had met
All kidding aside Terry Collins is extremely nice, he used to go
To this bar in LIC called PJ Leahy’s and he was just one of the guys and while it was weird pretending I wasn’t kinda starstruck he was one of the nicest “celebrities” I’ve ever encountered. He remembered us when we saw him again. Not our names, but that we had met
he got a bad rep. I thought he made almost every right decision in the 2015 playoffs. He was better than Mattingly in the LAD series and it had an impact. Yes he should have pulled Harvey in the WS but in the moment EVERYONE wanted him to stay in. And they would have still gotten out of it if Duda made the throw home.
It was completely fair to try to find a new voice after 2017 but when it was clear early on Mickey wasn't playing with a full deck I would have fired him and pulled a jack mckeon bringing back Collins (pretty sure he was still in the org at that point).
was terrible with bullpen management and having "his guys" (pitchers and position players) but I admit I do every now and then watch the video clip after Syndergaard was ejected after throwing behind Chase Utley.
was terrible with bullpen management and having "his guys" (pitchers and position players) but I admit I do every now and then watch the video clip after Syndergaard was ejected after throwing behind Chase Utley.
One of the best manager blow ups.
generally agree but in that postseason he pushed all the right buttons. the 6 out game 5 save with Familia vs. LAD was particularly ballsy. I think he had him go for multi-inning saves in game 1 also. He got challenges right. He kept the them from losing their emotions after the Utley play (not just being pissed at the dirty play but remember Utley ended up getting called safe and scoring to flip the outcome of the game to make the series 1-1 instead of 0-2).
that series was decided by a very slim margin and ultimately got mattingly fired.
kinda curious why I see so many mets fans on twitter eager to sign Castellanos and dump Conforto. On paper it's a completely linear move. Unless you think Conforto is more "in decline/done" vs. a bad year it doesn't move the needle at all but I see a bunch of people suggesting it?
kinda curious why I see so many mets fans on twitter eager to sign Castellanos and dump Conforto. On paper it's a completely linear move. Unless you think Conforto is more "in decline/done" vs. a bad year it doesn't move the needle at all but I see a bunch of people suggesting it?
Is Cast going to get a QO?
the only reason i'd not extend Conforto is resource allocation
I would not in a million years spend similar money on a similar player who hasn't played here before.
If it's a choice between Conforto and a SP or Conforto and Baez, it's an understandable decision either way.
Honestly it's just an understandable decision to not think it's worth committing $100m to any COF'er. It might be a better investment to extend Nimmo early at a more manageable amount. Nimmo's durability is a huge question but Conforto hasn't exactly been an iron man either.
kinda curious why I see so many mets fans on twitter eager to sign Castellanos and dump Conforto. On paper it's a completely linear move. Unless you think Conforto is more "in decline/done" vs. a bad year it doesn't move the needle at all but I see a bunch of people suggesting it?
Is Cast going to get a QO?
Yes. He will have a pick attached. Same as Conforto.
kinda curious why I see so many mets fans on twitter eager to sign Castellanos and dump Conforto. On paper it's a completely linear move. Unless you think Conforto is more "in decline/done" vs. a bad year it doesn't move the needle at all but I see a bunch of people suggesting it?
Is Cast going to get a QO?
Yes. He will have a pick attached. Same as Conforto.
Sorry.. same as Conforto assuming the Mets offer him a QO.
RE: the only reason i'd not extend Conforto is resource allocation
I would not in a million years spend similar money on a similar player who hasn't played here before.
If it's a choice between Conforto and a SP or Conforto and Baez, it's an understandable decision either way.
Honestly it's just an understandable decision to not think it's worth committing $100m to any COF'er. It might be a better investment to extend Nimmo early at a more manageable amount. Nimmo's durability is a huge question but Conforto hasn't exactly been an iron man either.
I understand this line of thinking, I just don't understand getting a pick for Conforto, losing a pick for Castellanos when they are very, very similar players for their careers (production wise), like absurdly so. Is it just the excitement of a "new guy"?
as a hypothetical of the current resource allocation dilemma
rank the following contracts by the ones you'd most prefer to least.
a) Conforto 5 years 100-125m
b) Nimmo 4 years 70-90m (assuming a decent discount for early extension)
c) Stroman 5 years 100-125m
d) Baez 5 years 120m (Britton estimate from an article yesterday)
for me I think in order I'd go:
D, B, C, A. But Conforto and Stroman are a tie. I could flip a coin either way on that one.
RE: RE: the only reason i'd not extend Conforto is resource allocation
I would not in a million years spend similar money on a similar player who hasn't played here before.
If it's a choice between Conforto and a SP or Conforto and Baez, it's an understandable decision either way.
Honestly it's just an understandable decision to not think it's worth committing $100m to any COF'er. It might be a better investment to extend Nimmo early at a more manageable amount. Nimmo's durability is a huge question but Conforto hasn't exactly been an iron man either.
I understand this line of thinking, I just don't understand getting a pick for Conforto, losing a pick for Castellanos when they are very, very similar players for their careers (production wise), like absurdly so. Is it just the excitement of a "new guy"?
100% yes. Many fans memories don't go back more than 8 months and they think the most recent seasons performance is what they are going to get next year. That's why some were seriously debating Dom vs. Alonso at this time last year and talking about Conforto for $150m+.
be more apt to keep Stroman over Conforto if that's my choice. I think a good FO should be able to find a solid CO (not Conforto at his best level) but a league average regular on the "cheap". I think SP will be very hard to come by and the Mets don't have depth there. If they let Stroman walk, I still like Eduardo Rodriguez.
be more apt to keep Stroman over Conforto if that's my choice. I think a good FO should be able to find a solid CO (not Conforto at his best level) but a league average regular on the "cheap". I think SP will be very hard to come by and the Mets don't have depth there. If they let Stroman walk, I still like Eduardo Rodriguez.
I tend to agree but normally I'd lean position player due to durability. Stroman has so much athleticism though and his velocity isn't high so right or wrong I think his durability is less risky than other pitchers. I do think there's a chance they decide to just move on from him and not buy high. He seems ultra sensitive and I think at times can be a bit of a distraction. But it's real hard to find good pitching.
be more apt to keep Stroman over Conforto if that's my choice. I think a good FO should be able to find a solid CO (not Conforto at his best level) but a league average regular on the "cheap". I think SP will be very hard to come by and the Mets don't have depth there. If they let Stroman walk, I still like Eduardo Rodriguez.
I tend to agree but normally I'd lean position player due to durability. Stroman has so much athleticism though and his velocity isn't high so right or wrong I think his durability is less risky than other pitchers. I do think there's a chance they decide to just move on from him and not buy high. He seems ultra sensitive and I think at times can be a bit of a distraction. But it's real hard to find good pitching.
I actually dislike him personally. He's not just sensitive, he's hyper sensitive and even searches his own name on twitter. He attacks writers online etc. I don't have any moral issue cheering for a guy I don't care for so that's not a big deal to me, but I also won't go nuts if they let him go (with a proper replacement).
agreed- and if he's hypersensitive/overdramatic for the world to see
how hypersensitive/overdramatic is he about little things in the locker room? like fans booing?
imo this year's team lost because they were mentally weak. the braves lost Acuna who was possibly leading the MVP vote and look where they are now. Soroka tore his achilles in ST.
the met every day players from July to the end of the season were every bit as talented as Atlanta's. They just caved in to pressure and let things like the boo'ing get in their heads. they never got the big hit and never looked like they were having fun. the SP looked tired. and Edwin Diaz Edwin Diaz'd the few potential turning points.
and just to fill in all the blanks before the JDG excuses fly in, the Braves SP in the 2nd half wasn't even dramatically better. Fried and Morton were great but you can't tell me Stroman doesn't have the capacity to be as good or better than either of them. They started 14/15 games respectively and were each worth 2.5+ fwar just in the 2nd half (Stroman was worth 1.7). The Braves next 3 starters who pitched most in the 2nd half had near 5 ERAs and a combined record under .500 and a combined fwar of just .5.
Stroman and Hill combined to start almost as many games as Fried/Morton and both had era's under 4. Megill/Carrasco/Walker all started 12+ games and Trevor Williams actually had the lowest era of all starters in the 2nd half though he only made 3 starts. The fact is nobody on the entire roster stepped up as much as they needed to (Stroman included). With the possible exception of Baez who had as good of a 2nd half as you can hope for minus the boo'ing fiasco.
RE: as a hypothetical of the current resource allocation dilemma
rank the following contracts by the ones you'd most prefer to least.
a) Conforto 5 years 100-125m
b) Nimmo 4 years 70-90m (assuming a decent discount for early extension)
c) Stroman 5 years 100-125m
d) Baez 5 years 120m (Britton estimate from an article yesterday)
for me I think in order I'd go:
D, B, C, A. But Conforto and Stroman are a tie. I could flip a coin either way on that one.
I prioritize Noah over all of them... and then even at that I'd say e) All of the Above
But if I had to prioritize I'd go B, A, C, D... would prefer they go after Correa over Baez but I suppose if you go after Correa and miss, you lose Baez.
I like Stroman the person, but I just don't get the feel he ever dominates games, he's just constantly living on the edge and his competitiveness keeps him in it.. But I'm not arguing w/ having him as my #4 guy in a rotation... he's solid.
where is Correa playing here and how much is he costing?
unlike Baez he has only ever played SS and he's probably the likely gold glove. At 27 years old off the season he's had I'd guess he will cost close to what Lindor cost. imo he is beyond a pipedream and will likely re-up with the Astros for $250m+. But I guess we'll see.
Thor sounds likely to accept the QO and I agree, I put him above all the names on that list.
As for the other 4, to resign all of the above you are looking at about $100m in AAV.
On top of the $100m already committed to JDG/Lindor/Cano/Carrasco.
And about 20m for Thor.
Those 9 players would cost as much as the LAD full roster opening day payroll. And it would be even more than that swapping in Correa for Baez.
In other words resigning all 4 long term is not very realistic or sensible considering how this past year ended up.
almost have to keep Baez, and from what I read if the Mets make a "serious" offer, he will remain a Met.
the rest of the guys I'd make the QO to those eligible and see what happens.
none of the FA's are irreplaceable even Stroman with how desperate the Mets are, I agree Syndergaard even barely pitching in two years is a higher priority than Stroman.
Nimmo maybe the highest priority, if he could stay healthy, but he's not a FA this year anyway, so I don't know if he gets prioritized this year.
almost have to keep Baez, and from what I read if the Mets make a "serious" offer, he will remain a Met.
the rest of the guys I'd make the QO to those eligible and see what happens.
none of the FA's are irreplaceable even Stroman with how desperate the Mets are, I agree Syndergaard even barely pitching in two years is a higher priority than Stroman.
Nimmo maybe the highest priority, if he could stay healthy, but he's not a FA this year anyway, so I don't know if he gets prioritized this year.
the thing with Nimmo is you might be able to lock in extra years without paying him much more. In the final arb year last year Conforto got $12.5m. Nimmo will probably cost similar with no extension.
He has said he is open to extension talks.
He has had numerous issues staying healthy.
If the Mets offer him something like 4/70-80m overall it's just a $5-7m raise in AAV but it keeps him under control for 3 extra years. Something along those lines might make sense for both sides since it's very hard to find two way CF'ers and also very risky for Nimmo to be confident he can stay healthy. AJ Pollock's 5/60m is probably the closest recent comp of a player in a similar situation as Nimmo.
as long as the Mets are willing to exceed the LT, because I'm not sure they can add that AAV to Nimmo (if it includes an increase in 2022) and still sign the players they need to sign (Baez, Syndergaard, another starting pitcher or Stroman, and either Conforto or a different corner OFer plus fill in other players and bullpen help)
as long as the Mets are willing to exceed the LT, because I'm not sure they can add that AAV to Nimmo (if it includes an increase in 2022) and still sign the players they need to sign (Baez, Syndergaard, another starting pitcher or Stroman, and either Conforto or a different corner OFer plus fill in other players and bullpen help)
The smart move (assuming you want to go this route) is tack on his new contract to his existing year, that allows you to circumvent AAV concerns.
they are going to have to exceed the LTT this year
obviously the new CBA could also change that calculus, but I think until Cano/Carrasco are off the books they will likely exceed the LTT.
I think they need to envision a roster construction going forward that is close to the LTT not counting the bad money that they will allow to expire in the next couple years, so that way they have the flexibility to avoid repeat offender status in the future.
So basically a $220m payroll that can accommodate whoever the "real core" is over the next 3-5 years. Lindor and JDG obviously are already locked in and they can estimate the arb costs for McNeil/Alonso/Dom. Then add in from there with Thor/Conforto/Baez/Nimmo/Stroman/etc. That's where the hard choices are because even going over the LTT you can't afford all of them.
but they need to be prepared to go over that $220m in the immediate future by at least the amount of Cano's deal since that's likely untradeable. Unless they can slip something into his protein shake again.
Also obviously a huge way to alleviate payroll issues is by phasing in young guys so I'd eliminate most ideas of 1 of Vientos/Baty being trade bait. I think it's almost a near necessity that they not get blocked and get every chance to win starting spots at 3b/COF over the next couple years (or whenever they are ready).
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
do you think the new POBO/GM should consider PCA as part of the decision to resign Baez?
or do you think the new POBO/GM shouldn't be the one to make the decision?
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
do you think the new POBO/GM should consider PCA as part of the decision to resign Baez?
or do you think the new POBO/GM shouldn't be the one to make the decision?
I think if Sandy is still in the picture in any operational capacity, the investment made in Baez will be a consideration toward keeping Baez.
re: Baez - Olney polled 11 evaluators to rank this year's FA SS class
In polling conducted in recent days, 11 evaluators ranked these five elite shortstops No. 1 through No. 5 -- including Semien, who switched to second base this year when he joined the Blue Jays after playing shortstop for Oakland for years. If he moves on from Toronto after one year, the wide presumption is he may return to shortstop. The results of the evaluator voting were applied in a simple system of points -- five points when ranked first among the five shortstops, four points for a second-place ranking, etc. -- and you'll see the results below.
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
do you think the new POBO/GM should consider PCA as part of the decision to resign Baez?
or do you think the new POBO/GM shouldn't be the one to make the decision?
I think if Sandy is still in the picture in any operational capacity, the investment made in Baez will be a consideration toward keeping Baez.
Daniel Wexler
@WexlerRules
·
Oct 20
@StevenACohen2
Peter Bendix and Carlos Rodriguez from @RaysBaseball
both are impressive candidates. As part of your search committee might I suggest both be considered? Thanks! #Mets
Today-
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
As the Mets continue their front office search, Rays vice president of baseball development Peter Bendix is on their radar.
Bendix has been in the Rays organization since joining them as an intern back in 2009.
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
I agree with both of you guys...
Objective/Smart people would not consider PCA in the Baez decision..
But Sandy and the Mets FO might...
if we are strictly talking pedigrees i think my ideal combo would be
POBO with experience in the LAD org (which would basically be Byrnes?)
GM from the TB system (Heck or Bendix?)
get a big picture guy from a big market and a development person with a track record for getting the most out of their resources - both with track records in building consistently strong scouting departments.
Byrnes seemingly has nowhere to go with Friedman above him and if they want to keep Gomes that gives them room for him to ascend. I assume he'd get to hire the GM spot so it might not be realistic that he'd choose someone from Tampa as opposed to someone he's got a prior relationship with and thinks highly of.
worked with Bendix in TB. Don't think you hand pick a GM to work with a POBO. In that situation, a Byrnes picks his own GM. I prefer going another route.
Zaidi/Byrnes and later Anthopoulos were hired by the Dodgers, it was because Friedman picked them. The Mets can't piecemeal this. Your POBO is the guy who should make ALL of the hires with Cohen okaying his moves. You don't say "these are your assistants, this is your GM".
worked with Bendix in TB. Don't think you hand pick a GM to work with a POBO. In that situation, a Byrnes picks his own GM. I prefer going another route.
agreed - if you hire a POBO they hire their GM.
All else equal I'd rather get the guy who worked with Friedman in LA when he had money to spend than the guy who worked with him in Tampa when he didn't.
but obviously all else is not likely equal and you have to pick the most impressive candidate, whoever that is.
100% sticking to my self imposed lack of pessimistic posts but if the Mets do intend to hire a POBO, and have this guy hopefully become the next Stearns, next Friedman, next Neander that guy has to be given the leash to build the organization as he sees fit. I'm not saying he has to (or should) dump successful/intelligent current employees, but I do think he/she should have complete say in who is hired (Cohen obviously makes the final call).
You want the POBO, GM, ASG, scouting director etc all on the same page, not "I've never worked with X, but he's the GM I was given", the Mets model, whatever that ends up being should be that of one voice, one path, a well oiled machine, with Mr. X and Steve Cohen being the driving force.
don't think there is any scenario the Dodgers let both Gomes and Byrnes go together, it's worth asking but Byrnes is essentially their GM, so if he goes, then Gomes slides into that slot.
don't think there is any scenario the Dodgers let both Gomes and Byrnes go together, it's worth asking but Byrnes is essentially their GM, so if he goes, then Gomes slides into that slot.
that's what I said above - and why it might be something that makes sense. If either is ever going to move up Byrnes has to go, which opens up the spot for Gomes.
100% agree that if you give someone the POBO title they pick the GM.
I've noted before there is no hard rule you can't hire more than 1, but it's very unusual and in most cases there is even a hiring moratorium put in place aka if they hired Byrnes they can't hire another LAD FO executive for 1-2 years etc. No harm in asking but in this case, yeah Byrnes would get a promotion to POBO and Gomes likely the Dodgers new GM.
he interviewed with PHI before pulling his name from consideration. He's obviously had interest in the job before but also turned down the Wilpons (can't blame him there). Given how the PHI search turned out it seems like he may have even turned down the job (and not just withdrawn).
RE: I wonder if the Mets interviewed Byrnes last year
he interviewed with PHI before pulling his name from consideration. He's obviously had interest in the job before but also turned down the Wilpons (can't blame him there). Given how the PHI search turned out it seems like he may have even turned down the job (and not just withdrawn).
Thad Levine also interviewed (which surprised many) but he too turned it down.
"Main Strength: Experience in a Brilliant Organization
It’s well-known that the Rays are a powerhouse when it comes to their front office, which is why several teams have started to target their executives. Chaim Bloom and James Click were hired this past offseason by the Red Sox and Astros, respectively, and it’s only a matter of time before Peter Bendix follows in their footsteps. Now that those two executives have departed the organization, Bendix is essentially general manager Erik Neander’s right-hand man, and despite being just 34-years-old, he’s already been in the organization for twelve years. As is the case with most top executives from this organization, he is a super bright mind and is very well-rounded, and, to be honest, how could you not want to hire someone from the Rays? They’ve been ahead of the curve, compared to other teams, for a long time, and based on the success stories from some of the lead executives that come from tree, they do a great job grooming their front-office members to lead their own baseball department. In other words, if you’re looking for the next up-and-coming superstar, Bendix is exactly that."
i know this is obvious but it really sucks that porter didn't work out
he really had a lot of positive attributes. really liked his entire mentality and everything he talked about in terms of building depth throughout the system, leveraging all avenues, etc. And he had a good combo of big market/small market experience.
obviously we know a lot more about his vision for the team than any of the other names who haven't been hired/spoken publicly about the team but on paper he seems very strong compared to the others we are talking about. Byrnes is very impressive on paper too - which makes sense given he'd be interviewing for the real top job. I wonder if last year the Mets were just aiming higher than a first timer for the POBO job?
was a home run (except....), when they brought on Scott it was oft mentioned he didn't really have the gift of gab or personality that most successful GM's have and he seemed like a secondary type. Byrnes strength is draft/development, his teams did not usually win trade or FA and he's known as somewhat surly. I wouldn't "dislike" the hire but his lack of success as a GM in terms of W/L is at least somewhat of a concern to me.
Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I think I saw something credible recently (Martino? maybe) that they still like Scott but I would have bet a lot he's not back a few weeks ago. He was mostly unimpressive last year from the leadership angle.
I really wonder what they do if they find themselves in a position where nobody they speak to seems as good as Porter.
Am I crazy that bringing him back seems not that crazy?
Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
I think I saw something credible recently (Martino? maybe) that they still like Scott but I would have bet a lot he's not back a few weeks ago. He was mostly unimpressive last year from the leadership angle.
I really wonder what they do if they find themselves in a position where nobody they speak to seems as good as Porter.
Am I crazy that bringing him back seems not that crazy?
I'd be absolutely stunned if they brought back Porter. The firestorm would be immense and Cohen seems to be very sensitive for a guy who is as big as he is. Porter was known to (in his off time) drive down to random games or check out indy ball. He was obsessive. He was absolutely a loss. I wouldn't hate Scott returning but he'd have to be in a secondary role, I'm sure he's good at what he does but teams won't be rushing to interview him to be their next GM if the Mets dump him.
i'd also be stunned if they brought him back but that's a different ?
if it was your franchise, and you knew of someone available who you felt was clearly stronger than anyone else you've talked to, and was on track last year to building up the org, do you just forget that?
was what he did a literal career killer?
obviously if there was more that came out behind the scenes after the fact in the baseball world that didn't get printed or if there were any future concerns about his behavior it's a no go. But I haven't seen anything else come out other than that 2016 allegation that he owned up to.
Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Eric,
I think you'd be wrong there. His ex-coach (who he is very close with) suggested he might turn down the Phillies job before he ever did... because of his daughters (Ed Molush)
Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Eric,
I think you'd be wrong there. His ex-coach (who he is very close with) suggested he might turn down the Phillies job before he ever did... because of his daughters (Ed Molush)
it's certainly possible but why take the interviews then? just in case it's an offer so good it cant be refused?
Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Thad Levine also met with them regarding the job and NOBODY thought he was leaving and he didn't. Byrnes refused to even interview with the Mets last time around. He's from DC but he's out west most of his professional career. Rockies, Padres, Arizona, Dodgers and in California for the last 11.
Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Didn't Beane just give the same reason?
Family is important.
If I was already rich I wouldn't subject my family to Philadelphia either...
sure part of it is keeping your name "alive" in discussion for future jobs. It's been long rumored that more than one ex-GM trades information to have his name floated by some of the national writers. Doug Melvin has been suggested as this guy before but I have no evidence of this, could be just a running joke (that it's Melvin).
Byrnes turned down the Wilponzis after they passed on him in 2010
and yes, Beane has turned down probably 100 interviews because of his family over the years. but he's always been completely transparent about that and he even turned down the offer too good to refuse from Henry.
I don't think Beane ever went through an interview process only to later pull out because of his family. That's exactly why he claimed to take himself out of consideration a few days ago. Why waste the time if you know you're not moving your family?
why did Thad Levine? It's not that unheard of for guys to take interviews without the likelihood of taking the job.
"On Friday morning, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reported that Minnesota Twins general manager Thad Levine is “a significant player” in the Phillies’ search for a new president of baseball operations. LaVelle E. Neal III, who covers the Twins for the Star Tribune, later confirmed his candidacy for the job. "
and then
"Since Levine arrived in Minnesota in 2016, the Twins have made the playoffs three times and won two division titles with a mix of homegrown talent and veteran free-agent acquisitions. They have yet to snap their playoff losing streak, which dates back to 2004. It appears Levine prefers to keep his family in the Minneapolis area and work under Twins president of baseball operations Derek Falvey to rid the organization of its postseason futility. "
1. they didn't get the job and were afforded soft landings.
2. they were offered the jobs but both turned it down because the situation was right for them but didn't want to say so.
#2 is the same allegation that was made re: Beane/Mets for the last couple days. only difference being Beane's track record of not engaging due to his family is long established - which imo is more credible since I don't think he's even taken an interview since turning down Henry.
the dombrowski hiring was out of left field enough that I could see it having been either bc the Phillies abruptly changed course thinking they didn't have the right guy or the right guys turned them down.
no point even debating this topic, Byrnes may or may not be asked to interview, he may or may not be offered the job and he may or may not be willing to move his daughters.
1. they didn't get the job and were afforded soft landings.
2. they were offered the jobs but both turned it down because the situation was right for them but didn't want to say so.
#2 is the same allegation that was made re: Beane/Mets for the last couple days. only difference being Beane's track record of not engaging due to his family is long established - which imo is more credible since I don't think he's even taken an interview since turning down Henry.
the dombrowski hiring was out of left field enough that I could see it having been either bc the Phillies abruptly changed course thinking they didn't have the right guy or the right guys turned them down.
#1 doesn't seem plausible. Teams want to look bad as they are rejected for jobs? You think the Mets would agree to look "bad" if Byrnes interviewed with them, they opt against him and he comes away stating they offered it but he said no? In Levine's case it defies reason. He guy is considered an absolute STUD. He and Falvey are 2 of the most highly regarded execs in the game and unlike Byrnes have zero "stink" of failure yet (fairly or not).
no point even debating this topic, Byrnes may or may not be asked to interview, he may or may not be offered the job and he may or may not be willing to move his daughters.
there's nothing to debate it's just speculation. its a little weird of anyone to interview for a job they intend to withdraw themselves from for a reason that was known ahead of time. that doesn't mean it doesn't happen just that there's usually something else beyond the surface - that's where the whole "so and so resigns to spend more time with family" meme comes from.
the "lolmets" stories going around right now, there is no way Steve Cohen is going to allow a candidate to "I turned down the Mets" after they opted not to offer them the job. None.
no point even debating this topic, Byrnes may or may not be asked to interview, he may or may not be offered the job and he may or may not be willing to move his daughters.
there's nothing to debate it's just speculation. its a little weird of anyone to interview for a job they intend to withdraw themselves from for a reason that was known ahead of time. that doesn't mean it doesn't happen just that there's usually something else beyond the surface - that's where the whole "so and so resigns to spend more time with family" meme comes from.
If the Mets somehow landed Thad Levine baseball media would be going wild with praise with such a move. There is "no" chance the Phillies told him no and he framed it like he did. More likely, he didn't see the downside of listening.
1. they didn't get the job and were afforded soft landings.
2. they were offered the jobs but both turned it down because the situation was right for them but didn't want to say so.
#2 is the same allegation that was made re: Beane/Mets for the last couple days. only difference being Beane's track record of not engaging due to his family is long established - which imo is more credible since I don't think he's even taken an interview since turning down Henry.
the dombrowski hiring was out of left field enough that I could see it having been either bc the Phillies abruptly changed course thinking they didn't have the right guy or the right guys turned them down.
#1 doesn't seem plausible. Teams want to look bad as they are rejected for jobs? You think the Mets would agree to look "bad" if Byrnes interviewed with them, they opt against him and he comes away stating they offered it but he said no? In Levine's case it defies reason. He guy is considered an absolute STUD. He and Falvey are 2 of the most highly regarded execs in the game and unlike Byrnes have zero "stink" of failure yet (fairly or not).
i agree. if i was choosing which was more plausible it would be door #2. I don't think anyone else was banging down dombrowski's doors and it was a weird hire from the moment it was announced. the mets hiring Melvin would be comparably weird - and im pretty sure I know what we'd all hypothesize right away. that we couldn't get anyone better to say yes.
don't doubt Doug Melvin knows a hell of a lot more about baseball than I ever will but when you see a guys name like his floated for a premiere job (The Mets) when he hasn't even had a full-time gig in 7 seasons... you know it's almost certainly false. I appreciated Joel Sherman tracking him down to ask. I don't even think that Dorian Boyland rumor was eve remotely true. If it had any basis in reality it was likely Cohen and Boyland having business discussions unrelated to the Mets.
don't doubt Doug Melvin knows a hell of a lot more about baseball than I ever will but when you see a guys name like his floated for a premiere job (The Mets) when he hasn't even had a full-time gig in 7 seasons... you know it's almost certainly false. I appreciated Joel Sherman tracking him down to ask. I don't even think that Dorian Boyland rumor was eve remotely true. If it had any basis in reality it was likely Cohen and Boyland having business discussions unrelated to the Mets.
I should say, unrelated to working FOR the Mets. I have no clue what kind of business, sponsorship or even Willets Point (which Cohen owns 5%) discussions may have been had.
pretend it's early December and the mets are known to interview Thad/Byrnes/etc, some for multiple rounds.
and they hire a retread like Melvin while the others bow out due to family.
what would we think happened?
In that scenario, yes, we'd assume the Mets job is an awful one that nobody wants. Even that scenario, to not hire a "desperate" guy looking for his first shot and going with Melvin... yeesh. They would be better off (optics wise) hiring 4th in command from the Padres and hyping them up as some big time get.
pretend it's early December and the mets are known to interview Thad/Byrnes/etc, some for multiple rounds.
and they hire a retread like Melvin while the others bow out due to family.
what would we think happened?
In that scenario, yes, we'd assume the Mets job is an awful one that nobody wants. Even that scenario, to not hire a "desperate" guy looking for his first shot and going with Melvin... yeesh. They would be better off (optics wise) hiring 4th in command from the Padres and hyping them up as some big time get.
if that's how things played out I'd be on the phone with Porter and the PR team brainstorming anti cancel culture talking points so fast he wouldn't even have time to zip up.
read and I think would be particularly interesting to PJ who has concerns about a small market guy suddenly being expected to "spend". Great piece Link - ( New Window )
read and I think would be particularly interesting to PJ who has concerns about a small market guy suddenly being expected to "spend". Great piece Link - ( New Window )
Nice article.
Beyond the finance-style of looking at player value, one of the reasons you have to want someone from the TB well is summed up here:
Quote:
a key difference between the Rays and the Sox. One of the ways the Rays have been able to separate themselves is in development and implementation. The Sox and Rays can both see similar possibilities for improvement in players, with similar evaluation tools. But Tampa Bay is still probably better equipped to help players produce those changes quickly, a Sox source said.
read and I think would be particularly interesting to PJ who has concerns about a small market guy suddenly being expected to "spend". Great piece Link - ( New Window )
Nice article.
Beyond the finance-style of looking at player value, one of the reasons you have to want someone from the TB well is summed up here:
Quote:
a key difference between the Rays and the Sox. One of the ways the Rays have been able to separate themselves is in development and implementation. The Sox and Rays can both see similar possibilities for improvement in players, with similar evaluation tools. But Tampa Bay is still probably better equipped to help players produce those changes quickly, a Sox source said.
I read this earlier and I liked it, still think trading Mookie Betts was the wrong move. The Dodgers already won a WS with Betts. Isn't that the goal?
And not sure I understand your point JB.
You can look at it that way if you want, but since 2004 the Red Sox have made it the ALCS 6 times and won 4 World Series titles (still alive in 2021 to possibly make it 5). All 4 WS titles and 5 of 6 ALCS appearances in Boston were without anyone from the Rays FO.
In that same time frame the Rays have made it to the ALCS twice and won zero World Series.
So how exactly are you defining success? solely by doing it with less?
Are you (or others) suggesting that when an executive leaves Tampa they bring that model with them to big market/big payroll cities? Are Bloom in BOS and Friedman in LA doing the same thing? Dodgers have exceeded the LT and been #1 in payroll for a few years (and have taken on bad contracts).
If I'm the Mets, the Dodgers or old Boston or the Yankees is how I'd hope things are run, not like Tampa or Oakland.
I think the biggest allure to a Rays hire is introducing their processes for player development.
The Mets have had some good players come up out of the system, but when was the last time we called up a plus reliever? Rays are always around the top of the league in Relief Pitcher WAR. Developing better home-grown bullpen guys would allow us flex our financial muscles on the less fungible positions.
when the cheating scandal broke the teams impacted had to scramble and boy did the Astros end up making a good decision with Dusty. All he's ever done is win and have people like him. Hard to not think the last 2 years wouldn't have been very different had the Mets hired Dusty over Rojas. 6 of the last 7 full years he's managed he's won 90+ games and that's across 3 different franchises.
Andy Martino @martinonyc
50m
Mets search for a new GM is trying to go underground but -- after some regrouping post-Beane -- is ongoing. They're doing diligence on and in some cases almost certainly speaking to young execs around the league.
From 2 days ago:
Quote:
Andy Martino @martinonyc
2d
The Mets don’t need a president of baseball operations. They made a mistake by saying they were looking for one.
I guess not a huge surprise if true because that's how it went last year when they couldn't get necessary permissions. If you think about the 2nd tier "experienced" candidates out there like Melvin/Sabean, I'd probably rather not bring either of them in as POBO to hire a GM. Just don't see much of an upgrade vs. Sandy and possibly a downgrade adding in another layer. If there's no POBO i'd think the opportunity is more attractive to a top tier young GM who sees the upside of having room to grow (like Porter was on track to last year).
It doesn't sound definite so maybe there are candidates like Byrnes/Levine who could still get the POBO title.
I'd imagine we won't hear much until after the WS but would think they want to have someone locked in by then.
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
·
1m
I haven't heard yet that the Mets have interest in Brian Sabean, despite him clearly having interest in joining the Mets front office.
HOUSTON (AP) — Baseball’s ninth work stoppage and first in 26 years appears almost certain to start Dec. 2, freezing the free-agent market and threatening the start of spring training in February.
Negotiations have been taking place since last spring, and each side thinks the other has not made proposals that will lead toward an agreement replacing the five-year contract that expires at 11:59 p.m. EST on Dec. 1.
The luxury tax system that started with the 2003 season sunsets with the expiration of the labor contract, with the exception of completing accounting and payments for the 2021 tax year. Uncertainty over the 2022 season probably will cause high-spending clubs to delay reaching pricier player agreements.
Free agents can start signing with any team on the sixth day following the World Series, and this year’s group includes Carlos Correa, Corey Seager, Freddie Freeman, Trevor Story, Max Scherzer, Marcus Semien, Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Michael Conforto and Kevin Gausman.
in Harris would also imply the idea they aren't looking for a POBO would be inaccurate. Harris would not even be allowed to speak to the Mets with the Giants permission, I find it unbelievably unlikely they would let their GM speak to the Mets unless it were because the Mets were interested in giving him a promotion (POBO).
Jack Ramsey
@jackwramsey
·
26s
Scott Harris’ main career work has come under two great decision makers: Theo Epstein and Farhan Zaidi. You’d hope his experience there would allow for him to be able to learn the position well. Not to mention, he’s attended Columbia, UCLA, and North Western.
Joe DeMayo
@PSLToFlushing
If the #Mets are speaking to people like Scott Harris (#Giants GM), it is an indication to me at least that they are still intent on landing a President of Baseball Operations and then presumably a GM under that person.
A Harris/Bendix type combo would be insane and would owe Sandy and Cohen a big time apology.
It's of course possible Harris would pick somebody like Bendix as his GM but I find it unlikely. They haven't worked together (2 different leagues no less) and Harris likely would hire somebody with more experience (ex GM etc) than Bendix. Harris is 34, Bendix 36. It's possible of course but seems more like just taking 2 well regarded names and throwing them together. Matt Arnold and Bendix actually worked together in TB (for example).
A Harris/Bendix type combo would be insane and would owe Sandy and Cohen a big time apology.
It's of course possible Harris would pick somebody like Bendix as his GM but I find it unlikely. They haven't worked together (2 different leagues no less) and Harris likely would hire somebody with more experience (ex GM etc) than Bendix. Harris is 34, Bendix 36. It's possible of course but seems more like just taking 2 well regarded names and throwing them together. Matt Arnold and Bendix actually worked together in TB (for example).
Agreed and that's also why I mentioned type there. Someone up and coming like Bendix who Harris has worked with already possibly.
and being open minded about whether the person is a fit for POBO or GM only helps - it's just a title either way.
it wouldn't have made much difference last year if they called Porter POBO and Scott GM and things were probably heading in that direction sooner rather than later if the team had a more successful season.
just get the person they feel best about. if that is Bendix or someone else who just so happens to not have enough experience to be POBO then hire him as GM with full autonomy to do all the stuff he knows how to do and let Sandy keep some of the other stuff off his plate until he's ready.
Four years at that $17.5 million salary would mean a $70 million deal for Conforto — more in line with what Ozuna received last winter. Yes, it’s a big step back from what I theorized he could get in the spring. It would still also be enough to justify rejecting the qualifying offer and testing the open market.
Stroman
Quote:
All of this is a long way of saying that this range — a four-year deal around $18 million to $20 million per season — seems like it could be the sweet spot for Stroman. None of these pitchers are perfect analogues, but they collectively share enough of Stroman’s qualities to give us an idea of how the market values them. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see Stroman’s market grow above that, too, if multiple teams place extra emphasis on his durability.
(he'd previously done Baez and came to 5 years $125m)
imo all 3 would be fair contracts and I'd probably make more of a case the Mets should do them than not. but it obviously depends on their new vision, new leadership, and first hand experiences with all 3. Ideally they'd maybe even get lucky with 1 of them (Conforto?) willing to take a 1 year deal to rebuild value to try to get a bigger deal next year? Ozuna did that once before signing his longer term deal.
these are the types of comments where Seidler clowns himself (imo)
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
the Cohen era so far:
- numerous sexual harassment issues
- tried very hard to sign Bauer
- org culture is a flaming dumpster
- failed to sign first-round pick w/major pool and FA ramifications
- collapsed and missed playoffs by a mile
- whiffed for a year straight on top execs
Let's take these 1 at a time.
1. Was there any sexual harassment incident that doesn't predate Cohen actually running the team as the majority owner? Porter's incident was in 2016 and he was fired within like 24 hours of it becoming public.
2. Yes they did. As did the reining WS champs and league poster children LAD. And he played for 3 other teams before that. Yes he's a toxic jerk and in hindsight they dodged a bullet but he hadn't been accused of anything criminal. I'm glad he didn't end up a NYM but I'm also glad our owner is willing to invest to try to make the team better. 1 more top of the rotation pitcher was the difference in the season.
3. 1 of 2 semi-sentient points.
4. owners shouldn't have any role in draft selection beyond writing the checks.
5. they had the 2nd highest payroll in baseball and were about 10 games over .500 for the first 4 months of the season. the team didn't collapse because ownership refused to invest.
6. ok, they whiffed on Theo/Beane and got denied on Stearns again. is the preference to not go for top targets and immediately settle for lesser candidates? Maybe we should see who they end up with before declaring that they completely whiffed? Porter wasn't considered a whiff last year.
In fact my memory is that Seidler was pretty positive on the Porter hire however I had a hard time fact checking myself because he appears to have deleted all his comments referencing Porter last year from when he was hired. I guess being positive about someone Cohen hired and turned out to do some prior sexual harassin wouldn't fit either of his narratives?
Four years at that $17.5 million salary would mean a $70 million deal for Conforto — more in line with what Ozuna received last winter. Yes, it’s a big step back from what I theorized he could get in the spring. It would still also be enough to justify rejecting the qualifying offer and testing the open market.
Stroman
Quote:
All of this is a long way of saying that this range — a four-year deal around $18 million to $20 million per season — seems like it could be the sweet spot for Stroman. None of these pitchers are perfect analogues, but they collectively share enough of Stroman’s qualities to give us an idea of how the market values them. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see Stroman’s market grow above that, too, if multiple teams place extra emphasis on his durability.
(he'd previously done Baez and came to 5 years $125m)
imo all 3 would be fair contracts and I'd probably make more of a case the Mets should do them than not. but it obviously depends on their new vision, new leadership, and first hand experiences with all 3. Ideally they'd maybe even get lucky with 1 of them (Conforto?) willing to take a 1 year deal to rebuild value to try to get a bigger deal next year? Ozuna did that once before signing his longer term deal.
Seems low on Stroman TBH. 4 years isn't "great" for any pitcher but the salary is very low risk (as low risk as any SP can be). I've seen most people projecting Stroman to get roughly what Wheeler got. 5 for 120ish. That looks more realistic to me. Generally speaking, 1 extra year than you'd wanna go is what gets these done. No clue on Baez, his value/market seems all over the place. Reportedly asked for 200, I could see him getting years over AAV or vice versa and neither would surprise me.
Michael Mayer @mikemayer22
7m
Update: Giants GM Scott Harris has told the Mets he’s not joining their organization.
He talked to the Mets about their front office opening last week.
I read that like he interviewed last week then took himself out? Weird phrasing with the "told the mets he's not joining their organization" because that kind of implies he was offered a role.
going to argue against his resume but Sabean feels like a potential disaster. Was told that the Sabean stuff is completely from his side (why aren't/haven't teams been interested the past 3 off-seasons?) and more importantly Sabean+ Sandy seems like a Mets-centric potential disaster. You need 2 of these guys? Older statesmen that aren't exactly the current model of what teams are doing? I could see that become a circus.
Arnold/Bendix combo is the best case scenario to me.
going to argue against his resume but Sabean feels like a potential disaster. Was told that the Sabean stuff is completely from his side (why aren't/haven't teams been interested the past 3 off-seasons?) and more importantly Sabean+ Sandy seems like a Mets-centric potential disaster. You need 2 of these guys? Older statesmen that aren't exactly the current model of what teams are doing? I could see that become a circus.
Arnold/Bendix combo is the best case scenario to me.
I have 0 interest in Sabean or Melvin or any retread POBO. I'd rather Sandy and a good young GM than a retreat POBO. I'd feel a lot more confident the guy trying to get himself out of the job is more willing to keep his ego out of things than the guys constantly running to reporters to get themselves into consideration and stay relevant.
I said, I find the ageism stuff tedious but the league pretty clearly moving in a clear direction that (again not age) but guys who haven't been part of this.. would seemingly be behind the 8 ball. 1 single head of a team was in his 50's during the playoffs this year (Cashman) and the WS winning GM will either be 44 or 43. A guy like Gomes, or Harris or Bendix could be completely awful but these are the types leading the best organizations in baseball in 2021.
said the position was in fact POBO (the Giants likely weren't going to let him interview for a linear job, and for him that wouldn't have made sense either).
didn't "interview" per se, he "declined to be considered a candidate".
looks like he was born in redwood city and went to ucla. maybe he likes being back in CA?
Impressive how meteoric his rise to GM has been. He graduated in 2009 and had a coordinator title for 2 years (presumably entry level). Theo grabbed him and 7 years later he's a GM.
I said, I find the ageism stuff tedious but the league pretty clearly moving in a clear direction that (again not age) but guys who haven't been part of this.. would seemingly be behind the 8 ball. 1 single head of a team was in his 50's during the playoffs this year (Cashman) and the WS winning GM will either be 44 or 43. A guy like Gomes, or Harris or Bendix could be completely awful but these are the types leading the best organizations in baseball in 2021.
As a fan of an organization completely turned around by Lou Lamoriello over the last 3 years I'm the opposite of ageist. I more just don't see any upside over what's already in the building with Sandy. Those guys couldn't rebuild the front offices of their old teams as they were transitioning out.
Essentially have Byrnes as the GM without the title which allows them to keep Gomes (reportedly will be named GM, haven’t had one since 2019). Very smart
but surely he’s not doing all the work there right? Identify the #2-5 people in their org structure and give them all better titles and 2.5X salary. Tampa is a cheap organization and won’t be able to outbid. Ask the new guys who the talented lower level people are in Tampa and raid them with more raises and promotions.
I’m ranting here but I’d like to see Cohen get more aggressive here. No one should be able to compete with our resources, so I hope he’s willing to go all-in here.
was one such case but he’s staying put. Metsnut as for multiple guys, the Rays would have to give permission for more than one to leave during one off-season.
The fucking NY sports media and how things are covered here is our biggest obstacle.
I truly believe quality people just don't want the hassle and will take less to avoid it.
Does this make sense to anyone else?
I think there's some reality to this but it's beyond just the media. It's that any of the guys in discussion will instantly go from an almost unknown person to being "famous" over night.
whoever gets hired is going to be pushed into the spotlight and there can be good and bad that come along with that. if they fail it won't be fun.
or they can stick with their current comfortable situations and just keep doing their thing behind the scenes and still get paid very well, not have to move their families, etc.
at the end of the day money talks and there's no excuse to not get someone good. but I do think in terms of personality type it's more likely to be an appealing job to someone with charisma like Porter last year. he was good with the media. BVW was great with the media too he just lacked...just about every other relevant skill. But I don't think a lot of these guys who have been behind the scenes grinding statcast numbers and launch angles are particularly enthused about becoming celebrities overnight and having to dedicate such a big chunk of their job to dealing with the media and PR. that's where Sandy needs to be willing to step up and shelter the right candidate if that's the area they are worried about.
not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.
Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?
That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.
Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
1m
The Mets' top candidate for president of baseball operations at the moment appears to be Brewers general manager Matt Arnold. There has been contact, and I'm hearing the Mets may have made him an offer.
read. Arnold would be POBO, presumably he'd bring in a GM as well. I was hoping for Arnold/Bendix, but Arnold/Rodriguez would work too Link - ( New Window )
Matt Arnold
Senior Vice President and General Manager
Matt Arnold, 42, enters his sixth season with the Brewers and third as senior vice president. He was named the 10th general manager in franchise history on November 19, 2020. He originally joined the organization as vice president and assistant general manager on October 14, 2015.
Arnold assists President of Baseball Operations David Stearns with day-to-day baseball processes and provides functional oversight of all departments within baseball operations. His areas of focus include Major League operations, roster construction, financial planning, staffing and personnel development, contract negotiations and player personnel decisions. He also helps supervise player development, medical operations, integrative sports performance, foreign and domestic scouting and analytics.
Prior to joining the Brewers, Arnold spent nine seasons with the Tampa Bay Rays, assisting then Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations Andrew Friedman and President of Baseball Operations Matt Silverman with player acquisitions, contract negotiations and player evaluations at all levels. His responsibilities also included strategic planning, foreign and domestic special assignments and coordinating advance scouting for the postseason. Additionally, he worked to develop the process of integrating science, biomechanics and human movement analysis within all levels of baseball operations.
Arnold transitioned from the Cincinnati Reds front office to Tampa Bay following the 2006 season as a professional scout. He was promoted to director of professional scouting in November 2009 and to director of player personnel in June 2015. During his time in Tampa Bay, the team won over 90 games in five of six seasons from 2008 and 2013 and qualified for the postseason four times (2008, 2010, 2011 and 2013), including the franchise's first World Series appearance in 2008.
Arnold, who has 20 seasons of professional baseball experience, has also served roles with the Los Angeles Dodgers (2000), Texas Rangers (2002) and Cincinnati Reds (2003-06). In Cincinnati, Arnold served as assistant director of professional scouting with his duties including player analysis, financial planning and arbitration, and he was also involved in advance, amateur and professional scouting.
Originally from California, Arnold graduated from the University of California-Santa Barbara with a bachelor's degree in economics in 2001. He merited academic honors, including Sport Management Student of the Year as a junior.
read. Arnold would be POBO, presumably he'd bring in a GM as well. I was hoping for Arnold/Bendix, but Arnold/Rodriguez would work too Link - ( New Window )
Nice read.
Quote:
Arnold once said that his father told him Arnold knew so much about baseball that he’d make a great cab driver someday.
Rodriguez, who may or may not be a GM candidate if they hire Arnold
Carlos Rodriguez
VICE PRESIDENT, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AND INTERNATIONAL SCOUTING
Carlos Rodriguez enters his 11th season with the Rays and his second as vice president of player development and international scouting. In this role, Rodriguez reports to Erik Neander and assists in all areas of baseball operations, while overseeing the club’s player development system, baseball performance science, international scouting and academy operations. From 2015 through 2019, Rodriguez served as director of international scouting, following three years as director of Latin American scouting (2012-14). During this stretch, he played a key role in scouting and signing José Alvarado, Vidal Bruján, Diego Castillo, Yonny Chirinos, Wander Franco, Moisés Gómez, Ronaldo Hernández and Jesús Sánchez, among others. Rodriguez joined the Rays in the fall of 2010 as a professional and international scout after four seasons with the Blue Jays as an area scout. In 2009, he signed Yan Gomes from Barry University, the first Brazilian-born player to reach the major leagues. Rodriguez also spent a season as an intern for the Brewers. A native of Puerto Rico, Rodriguez attended the University of North Florida where he played and served as an assistant coach. He graduated in 2004 with a degree in business, double majoring in international business and economics. He and his wife, Omayra, reside in Tampa with their daughter, Eva Marie.
Rodriguez, who may or may not be a GM candidate if they hire Arnold
Carlos Rodriguez
VICE PRESIDENT, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AND INTERNATIONAL SCOUTING
Carlos Rodriguez enters his 11th season with the Rays and his second as vice president of player development and international scouting. In this role, Rodriguez reports to Erik Neander and assists in all areas of baseball operations, while overseeing the club’s player development system, baseball performance science, international scouting and academy operations. From 2015 through 2019, Rodriguez served as director of international scouting, following three years as director of Latin American scouting (2012-14). During this stretch, he played a key role in scouting and signing José Alvarado, Vidal Bruján, Diego Castillo, Yonny Chirinos, Wander Franco, Moisés Gómez, Ronaldo Hernández and Jesús Sánchez, among others. Rodriguez joined the Rays in the fall of 2010 as a professional and international scout after four seasons with the Blue Jays as an area scout. In 2009, he signed Yan Gomes from Barry University, the first Brazilian-born player to reach the major leagues. Rodriguez also spent a season as an intern for the Brewers. A native of Puerto Rico, Rodriguez attended the University of North Florida where he played and served as an assistant coach. He graduated in 2004 with a degree in business, double majoring in international business and economics. He and his wife, Omayra, reside in Tampa with their daughter, Eva Marie.
"There is some thought if Arnold takes the Mets job he will look to hire somebody working in the Rays’ front office as the general manager to work with him." -Puma
(With Peter Bendix reportedly not interested (though does that change post-Arnold?) Carlos Rodriguez remains an interesting name
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
1m
The Mets' top candidate for president of baseball operations at the moment appears to be Brewers general manager Matt Arnold. There has been contact, and I'm hearing the Mets may have made him an offer.
if this ends up being the hire I agree it's unlikely Sandy had any sort of meaningful direct relationship.
however if you think it's a good hire, doesn't it show that Sandy ran a good search and made a good choice (with the search ultimately unfolding a lot like last year)? I'd be surprised if Cohen knows Arnold from a hole in the wall.
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
for a Sandy connection, there is no obvious one. Brewers and Rays for the past 15 seasons, Dodgers/Rangers/Reds before that.
unless i'm forgetting something there was no Sandy connection to Porter (or Scott) either.
Sandy has never been the right guy for Cohen to bring back for just 1 reason. He has been a successful executive in MLB for 3 decades, including here, for a variety of reasons. Relationships with some of the bigger fish was one of those reasons but just like last year when the search pivoted to younger candidates there were still positives to his presence even if he didn't have a direction prior relationship.
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
Who do you think is running the search if not him? Scott is on leave. Levin and Tanous are supposedly candidates. Who do you think is the point person formulating the list and presenting it to Cohen? The head of HR?
semi-serious fans knew of every one of the candidates (we know of) that the Mets have spoken to. Doesn't look at all like they needed some "deep dive" to identify them. In fact, the only one I didn't know a ton about before it was reported was Bendix. Matt Arnold has been a hot name for a while now, Angels and Marlins both were in on him recently.
could be a firm he hired, it could be John Ricco, it could be Tommy Tanous, it could be any number of people. Not really clear why Sandy Alderson would have some extensive list of secondary executives to suggest to Cohen. Why would Sandy Alderson know Peter Bendix? 4th in command in TB, 36 years old etc? Based on what?
it has nothing to do with who he knows it's who Cohen assigns the task
to lead. I don't know what's so confusing about Cohen likely delegating this task to the guy he specifically hired to be his senior guy running the team and has the most experience by far?
Who do you think made the decision on Rojas?
whoever the new hire is, who do you think is going to be the person to intro him and answer questions about why they chose him to the media?
I'd imagine it will be the same person who has been fielding questions on the topic for the last month and giving public comments on behalf of the franchise?
Quote:
Alderson said he hasn't yet reached out to any candidates. He also declined to name any names on his shortlist for the position.
Quote:
Asked what the Mets have to sell to prospective candidates that could lead their baseball operations, he said: “I’m selling Steve Cohen, I’m selling New York, I’m selling the opportunity to realize on the potential of a storied but not yet iconic franchise. I think there’s a tremendous amount to offer someone coming to the Mets. Is it a set piece? Is it something that doesn’t require a certain amount of work? No. That’s where the real enjoyment comes in, is creating something."
Quote:
Scott is currently on an indefinite administrative leave (more on that soon), but the Mets have a front office in place. A big question: Will they completely clean house when they hire a president of baseball operations?
"Well, so the practical answer to that question is that a new person coming in isn’t going to want to have to deal with all those type of infrastructure issues immediately," Alderson said. "They’re going to be happy to have a functioning group of capable people who will be able to move the team during those weeks and months that they become more familiar with the operation, more familiar with the individual abilities of the front-office employees or other within the organization."
During a different answer, Alderson said "anybody's tenure with the Mets will be subject to the decision of a new head of baseball operations." It sounds as if Alderson would like to have some structure in place for the big hire, even on an interim basis. Then the new hire can evaluate the situation and make changes if necessary.
Alderson never signed on to lead baseball operations, so he said he'll be happy to turn it over to the upcoming hire. After that person takes over, Alderson said he'll be "present and interested in the baseball side, but my involvement will depend on how much this new head of baseball operations wants from me."
you're sticking with Sandy Alderson needing to be here for Cohen to land a... Matt Arnold? He needed to be sold on Cohen by a man he presumably barely knows?
also presumably just made the call to keep Hefner so his "hands off" the baseball side sure seems to be false. They held an option on Hefner, why not wait?
yes I'm sticking with Sandy as a great choice for Cohen
to help him build out his baseball organization for a number of reasons.
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
RE: yes I'm sticking with Sandy as a great choice for Cohen
to help him build out his baseball organization for a number of reasons.
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Theo told all teams he wasn't interested in speaking about MLB jobs last year, Beane was never an "option" he was working on that SPAC that fell apart but he was either OUT of baseball or remaining with Oakland.
before the Porter stuff came out? I guess I’m wondering whether the Mets would keep him as one of 4-5 direct reports to the new GM or whether it would just be better to move on.
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
before the Porter stuff came out? I guess I’m wondering whether the Mets would keep him as one of 4-5 direct reports to the new GM or whether it would just be better to move on.
The general sentiment was yes. I believe the Mets said he had been a candidate for GM along with Porter, and then based on their relationship Porter was able to convince him to come over. It seemed like the plan was to relatively quickly promote Porter to PBO and Scott to GM assuming things were going well...which turned out to be a very bad assumption very quickly.
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
One analytics hire for a team that had 3 (vs 20ish for the Yankees) given all of the talk isn’t exactly impressive. Also who exactly were they going to hire internally as their GM if they didn’t hire a Porter? They didn’t even have reasonable candidates. Who said anything about open to hiring them? They talked up following the Dodgers model but they haven’t really done much (yet) to follow this. Have you read/heard about an influx of scouting hires? Or analytics hires? These presumably were things that could have been done with or without Porter.
Has always been viewed as a “depth” guy and not one to lead an organization. Very smart, analytics based but not known as a great communicator and was never one of the “hot shot” names like a Bloom, Zaidi, Friedman, Stearns etc
like wasn't his primary role rebuilding a lot of the same type of team he built in Boston from the ground up?
when porter left and Scott had to step into a bigger job I think that understandably had to get pushed to a back burner.
Scott’s forte was analytics. Whether he was given the ability to make these hires and/or was unable to do so because of Porter being fired I have no clue. Seems like only something part of the FO would be able to answer
here's the story I remembered from when he was shotgun promoted
In September 2018, a Red Sox team official pointed to the unfathomable standings on the Green Monster, the ones that showed Boston with 100 wins and more than two weeks to play.
“The reason we’re where we are there,” the official said, “is because of what they’ve done up there,” pointing to the office that houses the club’s department of analytics.
Over the previous four years, Scott had remade that department, turning an increased investment from ownership, increased autonomy from the front office and increased interest from the dugout into a baseball behemoth. Given the chance to build his own team of analysts as the vice president of research and development under Dave Dombrowski in 2015, Scott embraced every part of the challenge.
“That was really the first time I felt like I was put in a leadership position,” Scott said. “I loved it. I thought that managing people would be a strength of mine, and then I actually had a chance to show it.”
It seems if you were a team legitimately holding people back from promotions, it would be difficult to bring in talent.
It seems if you were a team legitimately holding people back from promotions, it would be difficult to bring in talent.
Stearns was blocked last year as well. The belief is the Brewers are going to give him a huge extension and might even hold a 2023 option on him as well. There is no "promotion" Stearns could have had with the Mets. This was a linear move.
"Two Dodgers executives are on the Mets’ radar, senior VP Josh Byrnes and assistant GM Brandon Gomes. Byrnes’ level of interest in the job is not yet clear, but if the Mets asked for permission to speak with him, they will almost certainly receive it, sources say."
His player acquisitions have been about average his GM and managerial hiring I’ve been terrible
Porter a sexual pervert
Zach Scott a drunk
Mickey Callaway sexual pervert completely in over his head
Terry Collins was actually his best hire. What does that say?
Cohen obviously needs Sandy’s guidance since he doesn’t know anything about the business of baseball but I’m not exactly hopeful that this hire will be a good one given Sandy’s woeful track record
With the rejection to even speak to him this idea (pushed by multiple media members is in fact dead). Allow them to speak would proceed talking about compensation. By saying they can't speak, it means that idea is dead and buried.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
He didn't really give much of an answer other than he wasn't interested but he recently signed a 5 year contract to remain with the Browns.
Jack Ramsey
@jackwramsey
·
59m
Best fit i believe is Josh Byrnes. Most likely is Mike Hill. There’s reason for belief that all other execs could get blocked by their teams. Hill is the only one not working for a team rn.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
I went back and read the piece. Sherman spoke to him and he said he wasn't interested in leaving the Browns. There wasn't else to it, or even a direct quote (I'm not doubting Sherman spoke to him) just nothing to expand on.
Quote:
over the weekend that said Depo wouldn't leave the Browns for a MLB return and it was about the Mets.
I didn't read past the headline, but I wonder how/why he would want to stay with the Browns and to be honest it doesn't seem like he's been massively successful there.
He seemed like a guy I could have pictured as a future POBO.
I went back and read the piece. Sherman spoke to him and he said he wasn't interested in leaving the Browns. There wasn't else to it, or even a direct quote (I'm not doubting Sherman spoke to him) just nothing to expand on.
It's pretty simple I think...
He was a college football player and he likes that sport better... haha
I thin Cleveland might be "home" for him too, since he started his baseball career with the Indians.
- As I noted above, I really think they should make a call on Thad Levine. Yes, he turned them down in 2018, and turned down the Phillies last year but they can offer him the POBO role, something he can't have with the Twins with Falvey there.
They admire him as a man and person but I don't see the evidence that there's interest in being around Sandy the baseball mind.
I can't blame people for being worried about this job. You come to the job and immediately have Sandy and his son breathing over your shoulder.
They admire him as a man and person but I don't see the evidence that there's interest in being around Sandy the baseball mind.
I can't blame people for being worried about this job. You come to the job and immediately have Sandy and his son breathing over your shoulder.
There is now a suggestion from some that they only bring in a GM. Not really ideal when Sandy's son was just promoted to assistant GM and Sandy is still there. Hard to believe anybody who either isn't desperate to be GM or simply the paycheck is going to want to have to deal with such a setup.
Sandy president
GM+ Levin/Sandy's son as his assistants (both just promoted in July)
Seems far less than ideal.
Expectation is the Brewers and Stearns have already discussed an extension and Martino reported he has a 2023 option. He’s out. Heyman also now confirming the Mets are “pessimistic” they get to speak to Beane and will have to expand their list.
Expectation is the Brewers and Stearns have already discussed an extension and Martino reported he has a 2023 option. He’s out. Heyman also now confirming the Mets are “pessimistic” they get to speak to Beane and will have to expand their list.
Thanks. It does look like the best plan may be to hire a GM and punt the POBO question to next year. Or maybe think outside the box and hire someone from outside MLB? Kind of like the Browns did with De Podesto.
Quote:
Expectation is the Brewers and Stearns have already discussed an extension and Martino reported he has a 2023 option. He’s out. Heyman also now confirming the Mets are “pessimistic” they get to speak to Beane and will have to expand their list.
Thanks. It does look like the best plan may be to hire a GM and punt the POBO question to next year. Or maybe think outside the box and hire someone from outside MLB? Kind of like the Browns did with De Podesto.
Will Carroll said he heard they discussed a name that “blew his mind”. He refused to divulge it but said it was somebody who didn’t have experience in such a role. As I noted above, one issue with hiring “only” a GM is the Mets just named Sandy’s son assistant GM. Not really ideal to have this new person having one Alderson above him and one as assistant GM (in addition to his other assistant GM (Ian Levin, also just promoted) picked for him. Sure, they could potentially fire one of them but they aren’t firing Sandy’s son..
Will Carroll said he heard they discussed a name that “blew his mind”. He refused to divulge it but said it was somebody who didn’t have experience in such a role. As I noted above, one issue with hiring “only” a GM is the Mets just named Sandy’s son assistant GM. Not really ideal to have this new person having one Alderson above him and one as assistant GM (in addition to his other assistant GM (Ian Levin, also just promoted) picked for him. Sure, they could potentially fire one of them but they aren’t firing Sandy’s son..
Not a good sign that Cohen allowed Sandy to hire his son, especially without a GM already in place.
Byrnes is being touted as the top name. Retread Michel Hill, I’d call about Thad Levine personally. I guess they can see if Chernoff had a change of heart.
Quote:
Will Carroll said he heard they discussed a name that “blew his mind”. He refused to divulge it but said it was somebody who didn’t have experience in such a role. As I noted above, one issue with hiring “only” a GM is the Mets just named Sandy’s son assistant GM. Not really ideal to have this new person having one Alderson above him and one as assistant GM (in addition to his other assistant GM (Ian Levin, also just promoted) picked for him. Sure, they could potentially fire one of them but they aren’t firing Sandy’s son..
Not a good sign that Cohen allowed Sandy to hire his son, especially without a GM already in place.
Sandy’s son was already here. He was promoted in July which yeah, suggests he’s not going anywhere in November.
Sort of makes you wonder what the point is of having Alderson around?
You’d think Cohen, who was an avid baseball fan before this and made his living on acquiring and trading on information, would have a better idea of who to go after around the league.
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
·
8m
I'm curious how the Mets are going to try to spin this when Epstein and Beane straight up said no. They pulled the "teams wouldn't let us interview candidates" card last year which I think in at least some cases was a formal nicety, but that's not available this time
Quote:
it or not, Cohen/Sandy completely struck out for 2 off-seasons on their "top" targets. They may well end up with somebody very good or even great but that's just the facts. Sandy being some sort of enticement to top names has not been the case.
Sort of makes you wonder what the point is of having Alderson around?
You’d think Cohen, who was an avid baseball fan before this and made his living on acquiring and trading on information, would have a better idea of who to go after around the league.
Cohen wanted to hire La Russa/Arn Tellem to run the Dodgers when he thought he was going to be the high bidder for him, so it's unclear exactly what his baseball acumen is. Not suggesting, I know what kind of job they would do but that would have been a weird way to go.
Link - ( New Window )
@BNightengale
·
1m
There wasn’t an executive in the game who ever believed Billy Beane would leave his $8 million-a-year job with the #Athletics to go to the #Mets. Beane was never, ever leaving. And now the #Mets officially know it too.
@jaseidler
·
7m
I don't think if the Mets get, say, Matt Arnold or Brandon Gomes as president of baseball ops or chief baseball officer and an AGM you've never heard of as GM that it's necessarily a bad thing, but the process to get there has been a debacle, and selling this more broadly is uhhh
Will Carroll
@injuryexpert
·
8m
And yes, Bobby Heck was the name that blew my mind. Super capable, great baseball guy, awesome scout, and has been with winning orgs. I was surprised he'd be mentioned for PBO role when hasn't been GM. Not that I don't think he'd be good for it, just surprised.
@injuryexpert
·
10m
The Mets have been calling around, basically putting together a longer list past their "top 3" and seeing who's available/interested. I've heard several names, can confirm Doug Melvin (finalist last time), Bobby Heck (TB), and Dorian Boyland on the list.
@BNightengale
·
1m
There wasn’t an executive in the game who ever believed Billy Beane would leave his $8 million-a-year job with the #Athletics to go to the #Mets. Beane was never, ever leaving. And now the #Mets officially know it too.
So does this Beane came very close to jumping to the Mets...Always assume the opposite with Nightengale reports.
Joking aside, Cohen missing out on his top targets ( and seeming not even getting close) is really disappointing. Is it him that is turning people off? Curious to hear why this job isn't more attractive.
@mikemayer22
Can confirm the @injuryexpert
report that the Mets have discussed hiring Doug Melvin.
He was a finalist for GM before they hired Brodie Van Wagenen.
A 67 year old has been uninvolved in baseball for years and is a car salesmen the last 34 years with dealerships in 5 states.
WTF? I'm at a loss of what to even say about that.
Theo was a pipe dream and had specific requirements Cohen knew about and wasn't likely to offer Theo.
Naming those three guys would be like if the Giants fired Gettleman and said our three candidates are Eric Da Costa, Steve Keim, and Brandon Beane (all three of whom are in similar roles with contenders). or even Belichick.
It just makes the Mets look dysfunctional/bad but reality is none were a good match and for none would it even be a promotion (Theo was POBO with the Cubs).
"Will Carroll
@injuryexpert
·
5m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
If I drop you in that job, could you do it? You follow the Mets, you speak in complete sentences. Is it that hard of a job to do?"
@timfinn521
·
1m
Baseball is going in a very specific direction among winning teams, pitch design, prioritize vertical movement over horizontal to pitch around bat path, hit the ball in the air. The Mets’ hire doesn’t have to be a “name”, but it needs to be cutting edge. Adapt or get left behind
@ShiDavidi
Mark Shapiro says very little of Blue Jays' off-season planning is being impacted by CBA uncertainty, and intriguingly adds, "I'm feeling pretty good about the commissioner being so confident that a deal will get done by Dec. 1."
SNY
@SNYtv
Billy Beane has withdrawn his name from consideration for a position in the Mets' front office https://on.sny.tv/ITjWoCT
@mikemayer22
Quick Mets front office notes:
-Epstein, Beane, & Stearns not coming
-Mets really like Gomes though Dodgers might promote to GM
-Mets aren’t optimistic about Josh Byrnes
-Doug Melvin back in the mix
-Mets haven’t asked to interview Bobby Heck yet, but could circle back
@AnthonyDiComo
·
52s
The top of the Mets' president of baseball operations wish list has been lopped off, with David Stearns, Billy Beane and (previously) Theo Epstein now all reportedly out of the mix. Echoes of last year, when the Mets struggled to secure interviews with experienced candidates.
Not a good look for Cohen. Last year repeated... Surprising he couldn't even get a meeting with Beane.
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
They should be trying to find the next Theo, the next Beane. Look at SF Giants plucked Zaide from the Dodgers organization. Or Chaim Bloom with the Red Sox.
Cohen had to treat this like a business and not his little toy. Hire a search committee composed of knowledgeable outsiders. Instead he has Sandy thumbing through his contacts.
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
It's not a dearth. It's just not a known name out there for a fan to know. But the Mets should be able to talk within the league and find that guy.
Quote:
The dearth of front office talent out there is kind of baffling..
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
It's not a dearth. It's just not a known name out there for a fan to know. But the Mets should be able to talk within the league and find that guy.
Compared to the talent trying to become CEOs and CFOs of Fortune 500 companies...trying to be partners at top consulting firms...trying to run investment banks...that's what I'm talking about...
Some of the dudes being "discussed" shouldnt even be in the conversation..
Like I said in the other thread..my theory is it's most likely a function of the boom or bust nature of the career path. There aren't that many jobs to make the $$ compared to the aforementioned paths. I'd bet there are a bunch of people on this board who are executives and talented whose dream job it would have been, but we all chose the safer routes.
On that other thread I brought this up someone also mentioned the nepotism aspect which is also real..
that doesn't absolve Cohen at all. this year he needs to deliver a real strong management team who can provide a 5-10 year vision for the organization. Anything worse than Porter is a disaster. in fact if things get bad enough and they thought Porter was truly the goods in the limited time with him last year I'd think about bringing him back. Yes it will be bad PR hit at the beginning but that's better than 5 years of bad PR from losing if they blow this hire. what he did was clearly inappropriate and it was absolutely fair to move on from him in light of new information when it happened. I don't think what he did deserves permanent banishment however. if you go through this process and still feel like he's the best guy for the job, do you just ignore that?
I obviously don't expect that to happen and would imagine like last year they will ultimately hire a non-big name from a winning org who is well regarded (like a Heck or Byrnes or Gomes). process complaints are clickbait until we see what the process produces. I don't care if cohen has all the candidates playing boar on the floor if it gets the right guy. im not surprised Beane passed but I am a little surprised Stearns doesn't seem willing to force the issue with Milwaukee. even if he doesn't want to come here at least force the issue and get a big extension. maneuvering leverage is a core skill of the job right?
The name Fortune 500 comes from the fact there are 500 companies on that list, but you are obviously not beholden to getting successors from those 500 companies (which is likely a pool of thousands depending on what role you are trying to fill). Expand to the global 2000 and then even beyond that the pool of potential extends well beyond (laughably beyond) what you would expect for the 30 MLB teams.
The only mistake the Mets made IMO, was publishing/leaking the names of unrealistic candidates because from an optics standpoint it looks bad to get publicly rejected even if the likelihood wasn't high to begin with for any of the candidates.
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
trying for the best candidates is an obviously correct decision. managing a daily news cycle everyone will forget the second they hire someone is a very distant concern to trying to get the right person in the first place.
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
Quote:
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
Korn Ferry is huge firm and I'd be shocked if Cohen hasn't used them countless times as well as probably all of their top competitors. I'd be shocked if he doesn't have personal relationships with the CEOs of most of them.
This search is 100% on Cohen. He has every resource necessary to find someone good and more experience/time to operate than last year. There are no excuses for not finding a strong candidate. Unless his heart was set on leading his own thing, if there was any price to get Theo on board he should have done that.
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
Having a wealth of experience with probably almost every executive in baseball doesn't mean he can make someone make any decision. I also said Beane seemed the biggest long shot of the top 3 and had Milwaukee not blocked again they would have had conversations with the other 2.
The results of this search are on Cohen. Working for him is the entire sales pitch and he writes the check.
and yes I still see zero downside to Sandy's involvement. With him they can still utilize whatever other resources they want to run the search (be it a consulting firm, MLB, whoever) and it's been continually made clear that it's understood in the industry he has no interest in being involved in the baseball day to day. the choice with sandy is the search running with him or without. If you choose without who is the preferred person for Cohen to hire to run it? call theo back?
in my experience they contract with people who have the relevant experience in those fields (like Sandy) and then package that up into whatever their secret sauce process is.
at the end of the day any search is a competent as the people involved in the decision. owners almost never have that competence themselves so they have lean on someone else.
who would you prefer that person to be? naming a consultancy is a straw-man. it's window dressing a professional process without any proven track record of improving odds of success hiring talent for pro sports. id personally take a successful and respected industry veteran over a consultancy. especially one with a unique familiarity of the organization.
Here are the ages of the heads of the "best' teams this year
Alex Anthopoulos-44
Andrew Friedman-44
Chaim Bloom-38
James Click- 43
Rick Hahn 50
Brian Cashman is the elder statesman of the group at 54 years old
It's a very young mans game (Melvin just noted that), why is Sandy Alderson some sort of asset in identifying these types? He was an advisor with the A's? So Billy Owens might be a guy he has insight into. Otherwise how often is he even interacting with the Brandon Gomes (4th in command) types in LAD? My guess is almost never.
"
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
John Ricco has been with the Mets since 2005, Ian Levin 2005, you don't think those 2, and Tommy Tanous (2010, running the draft since 2012, worked in Toronto and Texas), Marc Tramuta (also 2010, also Toronto) + Omar Minaya (back working with the team, advocated the Mets hiring Stearns in the first place) a consulting firm would be enough to head a search? I guess strongly agree to disagree.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
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You'd have a situation where you got no say on the manager and have Sandy and his son looking over your shoulder the whole time. No thanks.
You'd have a situation where you got no say on the manager and have Sandy and his son looking over your shoulder the whole time. No thanks.
I assume you mean the POBO or GM job? Because I'm sure plenty of guys will take any managerial job they are offered. I know Rojas didn't work out but quite frankly, it feels like manager can be a relatively late hire and still be fine.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
Link - ( New Window )
Good graphic... but our director of baseball analytics predicts Oscar winners... do theirs!?
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every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
In the months before the meeting at the diner, Friedman had sent letters to all 30 teams looking for a job. When he finally got an interview with the Indians for an internship, he finished second.
A little more than a year later, at 28, he was the head of baseball operations in Tampa Bay.
There's a market inefficiency there that Cohen can take advantage of. He can throw money at building a large analytics department filled with smart candidates - and NYC has a pull for that type of candidate.
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I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
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In comment 15420984 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
@ragazzoreport
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51s
For what It's worth, Carlos Beltran declined to discuss the Mets' managerial vacancy with me upon request
This decision is obviously for the POBO to make, but Beltran's current interest in managing again is currently unknown. He has kept a low profile since the Mets fired him
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case.
I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
For a very long time (basically until this decade) sports executives were basically among a very select few who were on a merry go round. In the last couple decades there have been a lot of outside the box with hires. younger, non traditional backgrounds. Those people (like Stearns and Theo and Depo and others) had been working their way up to those positions since the 90's and there are younger versions of them out there right now waiting to be hired.
the challenge as is ever the case is choosing who the right ones are and who they aren't.
the expanding talent pool is a very good thing that has made the game smarter overall and undeniably opened the door to a larger talent pool - but i dont think that has really changed the odds of successful hires for leadership positions in any sport. For every Sean McVay there have been 10 Jim Zorn/eric managini/chip kellys. sports are zero sum, immediate gratification, public beheadings, businesses mostly are not. Out of 32 GMs and coaches only a very small handful are successful most years.
BVW was an outside the box hire, and a very successful executive adjacent to being in an MLB FO. And his trade was one 99% of the met fans on this board knew was a disaster day 1.
it seems like there's always impulse to say "how hard can it be to find a smart talented GM" but just looking at the landscape of all pro sports it's not easy. or else more organizations would do it.
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In comment 15421476 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15420984 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
but I still maintain that it's not easy because of the small talent pool.. not that it's just hard to select the talent..
Want to take BVW as an example? Baseball player who went to Stanford on scholarship. Was he smart enough to go to Stanford without baseball? Who knows?
Let's give him the benefit of doubt and say he IS really smart and talented. He then had to decide to turn down guaranteed 6 figure jobs to take an entry level position with the Bulls and then a sports agency.. something that very few people in his spot would do because the path is so long and arduous and there are only a handful of gigs on that career path that result in wealth...
Or... let's say that he isn't really that smart.. that his name is "Brodie" and he has a Stanford degree, looks good in a suit, and he's just really personable... OR maybe he knew someone, like Sandy Alderson's son does...
I still think the talent pool they are picking from is probably more of the 2nd scenario than the first.. and BVW might be the perfect example of it.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
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"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
Quote:
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
Uh, I hate to break it to you but Andy Martino is well known to be a company/team shill. This idea he's some newsbreaker is ridiculous. He was the one who kept insisting Beane was a very real option and now is claiming they may pounce quickly on Baez... who pray tell would be making that decision if not Sandy? Sandy flat out said he will have a "seat at the table". Who else has seats? The assistant GM's are... Bryn ALDERSON (his son) Ian Levin (who has worked with Sandy for 9 years) and John Ricco. You don't see anything strange about that?
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In comment 15421500 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15421476 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15420984 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.
Beane said no thank you to his mentor before the Mets even asked for permission.
The Mets need Sandy Alderson and his son here in order to land the remaining names? Really? One year of Sandy Alderson knowing Steve Cohen is what's going to be a deciding factor? A season in which the Mets were a joke, the culture was questioned and the owner took hits for his use of twitter? Again, you insisted Sandy was going to help land some big fish. Didn't happen or some close. His value is what? Brandon Gomes has zero connection to Sandy Alderson, they needed Sandy here to land a guy like that? Why?
So... if there is not a head of baseball decisions, and Sandy isn't going to be involved in this.. then where is this coming from? The current regime no? Not thin air.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
Eric,
You also neglected to respond to this. I'm genuinely curious your thoughts.
they got the meeting with Theo which means there was a chance for it to be a fit.
I never thought beane was a good fit and said so even though I'd have still tried to ask like they did.
Stearns appears unwilling to force the issue out of Milwaukee and the information on his contract status evolved to say he had some kind of vesting option so his situation wasn't as clean as originally reported.
regardless they did the right thing trying to go for those 3. or do you disagree just because it didn't work out? or think they could have done something differently to get 1 of those 3?
Link - ( New Window )
they got the meeting with Theo which means there was a chance for it to be a fit.
I never thought beane was a good fit and said so even though I'd have still tried to ask like they did.
Stearns appears unwilling to force the issue out of Milwaukee and the information on his contract status evolved to say he had some kind of vesting option so his situation wasn't as clean as originally reported.
regardless they did the right thing trying to go for those 3. or do you disagree just because it didn't work out? or think they could have done something differently to get 1 of those 3?
I'm actually not "down" on the search at all, I only thought Beane was realistic (and I've said as much) but to not be able to even secure a meeting with Beane is pretty terrible optics when Sandy is his mentor and the whole "point" of Sandy being here (according to you yourself) was Sandy selling Cohen to big candidates like Beane.
I'm very down on Sandy Alderson still being here and 2 assistant GM's, long time Sandy guys (one his son) getting promotions in July, yes, that yes a major downer. Why do the Mets ALWAYS have to do things in an unusual way. Why is Sandy still here, his son and 2 long-time associates (Levin/Ricco) still here as assistants? How common do you see such a thing in successful franchises?
Quote:
is probably getting tedious for people to read but allow me to ask this final question.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
Eric,
You also neglected to respond to this. I'm genuinely curious your thoughts.
I'm trying to catch up i've had a lot to respond to.
Here's my answer:
POBO should have final say on everything from his staff to the new manager. If Cohen is unwilling to do that or Sandy is unwilling to relinquish (2 things that haven't been reported by anyone) then Cohen should either name Sandy POBO or let him walk if uninterested in that level of involvement.
If they don't find a more senior POBO and hire a younger executive as a first time GM like they did with Porter last year it's more of a gray area.
If Theo or Beane agreed to come here both would have been part owners with discretion to literally do whatever they wanted. Sandy's presence wasn't impacting them being a fit with Cohen or wanting this job.
Stearns has been blocked 2 years in a row by his team but the need to be blocked implies he had some level of interest if he weren't blocked. I'm very curious to see what ends up happening with an extension in Milwaukee.
Tanous, Tramuta, Alderson (and son), Ricco, Levin are already in place (not to mention have had a year to interact with the owner and be in his ear). Friedman didn't ride into LA with an entire FO already in place. Obviously, if they hire a POBO he'll bring in some of his own people but this is far less than ideal.
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.
Last year when asked about a model he was interested in, Cohen used the Dodgers. He talked at length about wanting to build a pipeline of smart people internally and I believe there were articles written about some specific investments made - and how it was a big part of his successes at p72/SAC to hire the brightest both externally from the market and internally via development.
If I'm remembering right Zack Scott's main purview under Porter was supposed to be assembling the analytics team. Investing in a best in class front office top to bottom is one of Cohen's day 1 stated objectives and simply not something that can be done quickly (or before hiring the leader of that organization in the first place).
I think a helpful exercise for many in this thread would be to ask themselves how they'd feel about the direction of the franchise today if Jared Porter hadn't taken a picture of his dick and sent it to someone 5 years ago. And then also realize how insane the ripple effects were for this franchise from the latter event.
None of us have any idea if last offseason and season would have ended up differently. I think one of the last things porter was supposedly close to doing was signing Kike Hernandez. But forgetting whether or not the outcome of the season would have been different just think about what we all thought they had hired with him - a young, bright, forward thinking executive from the Theo tree with rings and recent successes who was already in progress hiring young, bright, forward thinking executives from other teams with similar resumes.
the only silver lining was the prospect of going straight to the source and landing a big fish in Theo (or 1 of the others, but imo Theo was the guy). Cohen got the meeting with Theo and if there's anything I'm disappointed in it's that he didn't close him.
·
3h
If the Mets make a serious offer early, Báez would be inclined to stay.
More on the relationship between the two parties: http://on.sny.tv/AYg858F
Quote:
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.
Last year when asked about a model he was interested in, Cohen used the Dodgers. He talked at length about wanting to build a pipeline of smart people internally and I believe there were articles written about some specific investments made - and how it was a big part of his successes at p72/SAC to hire the brightest both externally from the market and internally via development.
If I'm remembering right Zack Scott's main purview under Porter was supposed to be assembling the analytics team. Investing in a best in class front office top to bottom is one of Cohen's day 1 stated objectives and simply not something that can be done quickly (or before hiring the leader of that organization in the first place).
I think a helpful exercise for many in this thread would be to ask themselves how they'd feel about the direction of the franchise today if Jared Porter hadn't taken a picture of his dick and sent it to someone 5 years ago. And then also realize how insane the ripple effects were for this franchise from the latter event.
None of us have any idea if last offseason and season would have ended up differently. I think one of the last things porter was supposedly close to doing was signing Kike Hernandez. But forgetting whether or not the outcome of the season would have been different just think about what we all thought they had hired with him - a young, bright, forward thinking executive from the Theo tree with rings and recent successes who was already in progress hiring young, bright, forward thinking executives from other teams with similar resumes.
the only silver lining was the prospect of going straight to the source and landing a big fish in Theo (or 1 of the others, but imo Theo was the guy). Cohen got the meeting with Theo and if there's anything I'm disappointed in it's that he didn't close him.
That's a bit simplistic don't you think? It's suggesting Porter (if not for the dick pic) was a guarantee to be good in this role. I was VERY high on him but let's not pretend it was a given. Josh Byrnes was viewed as a TOP young mind, completely failed his first 2 shots at it (Arizona/SD), not really sure why Porter was any guarantee to be any different. The Mets went into this season with 2 Alderson's, Porter, Scott, Levin, Ricco, they now have 2 Alderson's, Levin, Ricco... who/what is so amazing about what they have done so far? Ben Zauzmer leading the analytics department? Let's also remember Cohen wanted La Russa and Arn Tellem to run the Dodgers, so while I'd be a complete moron to question his business acumen, his building of a baseball franchise remains to be seen, right down to targeting Sandy Alderson as his first big move.
but if last year never happened and Jared Porter was available right now (2016 incident notwithstanding) would he check the boxes you want right now?
. I’m not “boo boo those were the only 3” I’m “boo hoo, I’m disappointed Sandy is still here with his son in an elevated position”
I don't care about titles - just make a strong enough hire to be the day to day leader of the baseball side. Strong enough to be the one leading a fresh new manager search and start building out a FO like Porter was as an example.
I don't have much concern about Sandy or his ego micro managing if they hire a strong leader (as Porter appeared to be and Scott appeared not to be). I don't recall anyone saying they had issues working with him in his decade here or rumors from elsewhere. I believe him when he has said repeatedly that he is looking to offload as much of the baseball ops job as he can.
And I'm almost positive I'd prefer a Sandy/Heck or Sandy/Gomes type arrangement over a more middling but experienced exec like Michael Hill who seems to not be at all in demand.
I think we have no idea who Sandy is talking to. This time last year we thought we were hiring Chris Young or Billy Owens.
If I were betting on it (and im not bc we have no idea) he will end up with someone like Heck, or one of the twins guys you like, or maybe even one of the guys from Cleveland. Someone we've all heard of but aren't talking about.
I don't recall seeing the name Porter before he was named last year and certainly not connected as a front runner. And I don't think we heard Zack Scott's name either, who was not only a finalist but obviously was also willing to take a lesser role.
Via twitter
“ Text I received from a baseball source on the Mets front office search, “Who is going to want to sign up to be the meat in an Alderson sandwich.”
I think Falvey would be an extreme long shot but they have two “stud” executives between he and Falvey. One is going to eventually want to have their own team
Via twitter
“ Text I received from a baseball source on the Mets front office search, “Who is going to want to sign up to be the meat in an Alderson sandwich.”
Seidler
“ Been hearing this (well, less funny, but…) a lot in the past few weeks. Mike’s tweets have been extremely on point this entire search”
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
“But there’s another potential issue lurking, regarding the curious timing of the promotion of Alderson’s son, Bryn, who along with Ian Levin was promoted to assistant general manager this summer when the Mets didn’t have a GM or president of baseball operations. Bryn, who joined the organization as a scout in late 2011, was previously scouting director.“
But hey what do I know….
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
And Britt Ghiroli who has broken major stories for the Athletic? What’s her flaw?
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
Eric.. his DAD promoted him in July.. you don’t see any issue with that? All of these people are lying stating they are hearing it’s a concern? Britt Ghiroli couldn’t be any more respected throughout baseball.
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
The Mets, under their previous ownership, tried that tactic three years ago when Brodie Van Wagenen, an agent, was hired as the general manager. Van Wagenen was fired upon Cohen’s arrival last November.
In his bid to buy the Dodgers before the 2012 season, Cohen planned to hire Tony La Russa as his president of baseball operations. There is the thought that Cohen could seek a prominent name to set the vision for the organization while letting the general manager handle the daily duties.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
again there's 30 years of history of Sandy as an executive have there been any negative accusations about working with/for him or accuse him of being an outright liar?
what's the theory here - he's an egomaniac looking to keep his family in control except 2 of the only 3 known targets would only ever take jobs with literal ownership stake and full autonomy to do anything they wanted? how does that align?
plan A - make a splashy homerun hire
plan B - fuck that every man for himself
I suppose we are also memory holing that Sandy essentially took himself out of the GM role last time and publicly stated that he wasn't sure his performance deserved the job after he returned to health? But now he's desperate to stay involved?
That is why imo this search is very much on Cohen. As long as you put enough money and years on the table autonomy becomes self fulfilling.
The issue is obviously you aren't just writing a blank check to anyone. You have to find and get permission for the right candidates.
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“Executives value three things: money, years and autonomy,” said one high-ranking baseball official. “Will they get that there (in New York)?”
That is why imo this search is very much on Cohen. As long as you put enough money and years on the table autonomy becomes self fulfilling.
The issue is obviously you aren't just writing a blank check to anyone. You have to find and get permission for the right candidates.
Wait… you’re both disputing her article AND citing a portion. That is “dead on”?
I'm suggesting that it's hyperbole intended to be salacious clickbait.
I'd wager almost every single pro sports organization has a Bryn Alderson in it. Or a Steve Belichek. Or a Chris Mara. Or a Stephen Jones. Or a Sanford Sternberg (i'll save you the 5 minutes of googling, he's a recent columbia MBA who is the TB rays director of development strategy and also the owners son).
The presence of a relation to a high ranking FO member or owner is viewed as scandalous or not almost entirely through the prism of whether or not the team is successful on the field.
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Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.
btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
Eric.. his DAD promoted him in July.. you don’t see any issue with that? All of these people are lying stating they are hearing it’s a concern? Britt Ghiroli couldn’t be any more respected throughout baseball.
If a person's family already has (a lot of) money, or they are athletically gifted (see: BVW, on both counts), then you can't use the school they attended as a clear barometer for their aptitude.
The fact that Bryn Alderson is an Assistant GM is much more evidence of the fact that nepotism and relationships are a bigger driver than unbiased development of a robust human capital pipeline.
This is very common with small privately owned companies.
There are Private Equity firms all over the world whose business model is to identify companies that have relied on this incestual talent development model.
They find companies who were started and built by hungry, smart, passionate entrepreneurs... who then passed company leadership through to their family members who are either (1) not as talented despite their pedigree or (2) just as talented, but the world has passed the collective family unit by in terms of skills necessary to be successful (eg. a good scout 30 years ago has a son, son is just as good a scout, son has no data analytics skills).
These firms then put capable management in place and maximize value (sometimes resulting in the ultimate destruction of the business, sure, but adding overall economic value nonetheless)
The Epstein's and Bloom's are Unicorns. Guys who could have taken an easier path to success elsewhere, but chose to take the big risk and go for it in something they were passionate about. For every 1 of them, there are probably dozens of guys who love the sport/sports business just as much but decided to go into Investment Banking or Consulting or business management/finance in broader industries with more opportunities and less of an incestual hurdle to overcome.
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“Executives value three things: money, years and autonomy,” said one high-ranking baseball official. “Will they get that there (in New York)?”
That is why imo this search is very much on Cohen. As long as you put enough money and years on the table autonomy becomes self fulfilling.
The issue is obviously you aren't just writing a blank check to anyone. You have to find and get permission for the right candidates.
Wait… you’re both disputing her article AND citing a portion. That is “dead on”?
You got me here. Everything is totally binary. Articles are either 100% great where we believe everything in them equally or completely dispute everything in them. No gray area or logic needed.
and to be clear I don't dispute anything she wrote as being accurately something from a source - but it's clear within the article different things are sourced to different sources.
I value named quotes more than unnamed quotes.
And I value her description of "high-ranking baseball official" who the quote I posted was attributed to more than
"some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position" where she has no high ranking direct source attributed - just "some in the game". Whatever that means.
Sorry but not all quotes are equal and who they are attributed to matters.
"Deal with whatever the dynamics are" is the issue. Do you honestly believe (again just using him as an example/name) Brandon Gomes is set up for success or looks at the Mets job as especially appealing (keep in mind he's already a hot name for GM's jobs) if Sandy, Sandy's son, Ian Levin and John Ricco are already part of his FO? I'm going to STRONGLY guess it's a net negative, not a "woah, I get to work with Sandy Alderson! and his son too!"
Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?
That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.
Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".
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The decision maker not Anderson. If they received permission to talk to Stearns and he conveyed that he would accept gig if alderson was gone alderson would be gone. If you end up with a newbie gm then yea that’s more awkward but there are only 30 gm gigs so if you don’t have one and can get one you likely are going to take it and deal with whatever the dynamics are (which btw are present in multiple forms). Furthermore if there is someone who is a GM and they offer him president role that once more is something that a lot of current GMs would consider. They also would have certain assurances from Cohen as to what autonomy would be. It’s a lot of consternation over someone who likely won’t be with team in a year and is trying to set his son up for better roles in the future. It’s not a nothing burger but it’s overblown.
"Deal with whatever the dynamics are" is the issue. Do you honestly believe (again just using him as an example/name) Brandon Gomes is set up for success or looks at the Mets job as especially appealing (keep in mind he's already a hot name for GM's jobs) if Sandy, Sandy's son, Ian Levin and John Ricco are already part of his FO? I'm going to STRONGLY guess it's a net negative, not a "woah, I get to work with Sandy Alderson! and his son too!"
Did you get the feeling Jared Porter was not set up for success last year when he was hired? Did he seem encumbered from bringing over people he trusted into prominent roles? Honest questions.
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not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.
Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?
That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.
Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
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Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
So you disagree with me that you suggested for months Sandy would be a major asset in reeling in a "big name" major hire because of his gravitas and now it's clear there may be some concerns with the FO having 2 Alderson's in major roles, and that the tier of guy they land likely didn't need Sandy Alderson here to come here? Deep down, you think the Mets would have been worse off if Sandy announced on the final day of the season he was retiring?
@jaseidler
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2h
No. 1 in the Mets org on the baseball ops side clearly doesn’t mean actually final decision maker. Sandy Alderson has been the final baseball arbiter running the show since he came back. The owner has no patience and talks too much. And you’re not hiring your own staff below
more projection based on nothing.
the LAD have like 20 director level or higher people listed in their baseball opps department including 6 VP's in player ops a senior vp and a president.
the Mets baseball opps department is right now lists just 5 full timers above coordinator including 4 vps (Scott on leave, Tanous, Levin, and Alderson).
All 3 of the mets AGMs have been with the club for a decade or more and had they not promoted Levin/Alderson they would have had just Tanous + Scott, which likely would have been the fewest of any FO in baseball. I don't think it's a coincidence that they were promoted into their roles near the deadline and the draft when there was likely a lot more busy work than during the rest of the season. functionally someone had to do that work and they likely rewarded long term employees they value with pay bumps in accordance with work they were already doing.
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be noted the role Scott was hired for, is now filled by Sandy's son and Ian Levin. So it's questionable how much "hiring" a new guy will even have. Will they have 3 assistant GM's? Why? If not, he's inheriting his FO? Even Brodie was allowed to bring on his own assistant GM (Adam Guttridge), as was Porter (Scott). The Mets have their assistant Gm's in place AND Sandy.
more projection based on nothing.
the LAD have like 20 director level or higher people listed in their baseball opps department including 6 VP's in player ops a senior vp and a president.
the Mets baseball opps department is right now lists just 5 full timers above coordinator including 4 vps (Scott on leave, Tanous, Levin, and Alderson).
All 3 of the mets AGMs have been with the club for a decade or more and had they not promoted Levin/Alderson they would have had just Tanous + Scott, which likely would have been the fewest of any FO in baseball. I don't think it's a coincidence that they were promoted into their roles near the deadline and the draft when there was likely a lot more busy work than during the rest of the season. functionally someone had to do that work and they likely rewarded long term employees they value with pay bumps in accordance with work they were already doing.
Fewest of any team? Why wouldn't the new head of the organization be allowed to bring in his own guys and/or decide who receives promotions? Promoting them to assistant GM in JULY when you KNEW you were bringing in somebody else to run the show isn't strange to you? They also have John Ricco/Marc Tramuta/Tanous. The rush to promote was in a word "strange".
I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
So you disagree with me that you suggested for months Sandy would be a major asset in reeling in a "big name" major hire because of his gravitas and now it's clear there may be some concerns with the FO having 2 Alderson's in major roles, and that the tier of guy they land likely didn't need Sandy Alderson here to come here? Deep down, you think the Mets would have been worse off if Sandy announced on the final day of the season he was retiring?
I asked you yesterday who the best alternatives were and the best you could come up with were Omar, Ricco, or just hiring a consulting firm like KF.
I feel infinitely more confident that Sandy will find someone better than those alternatives.
I never said Sandy would guarantee success or be the reason someone takes this job. He checks a box the others don't. He doesn't check every box.
I'm as disappointed they didn't get 1 of the big 3 as anyone else but I'm glad they tried.
Not sure what else I can say except let's see who they hire. You are entitled to feel however you would like but I think there's a much better chance you will like who they hire than you do.
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be noted the role Scott was hired for, is now filled by Sandy's son and Ian Levin. So it's questionable how much "hiring" a new guy will even have. Will they have 3 assistant GM's? Why? If not, he's inheriting his FO? Even Brodie was allowed to bring on his own assistant GM (Adam Guttridge), as was Porter (Scott). The Mets have their assistant Gm's in place AND Sandy.
more projection based on nothing.
the LAD have like 20 director level or higher people listed in their baseball opps department including 6 VP's in player ops a senior vp and a president.
the Mets baseball opps department is right now lists just 5 full timers above coordinator including 4 vps (Scott on leave, Tanous, Levin, and Alderson).
All 3 of the mets AGMs have been with the club for a decade or more and had they not promoted Levin/Alderson they would have had just Tanous + Scott, which likely would have been the fewest of any FO in baseball. I don't think it's a coincidence that they were promoted into their roles near the deadline and the draft when there was likely a lot more busy work than during the rest of the season. functionally someone had to do that work and they likely rewarded long term employees they value with pay bumps in accordance with work they were already doing.
The Dodgers FO has 2 assistant GM's, ZERO G's one head of baseball operations, and one VP of baseball operations.
Byrnes is essentially the GM, but with the title of VP of baseball operations.
Friedman runs the team, Byrnes is the "GM", and he has 2 below him (Gomes/Finley) not really sure where you're getting this idea they have a million assistant GM's etc. They gave multiple people "VP" titles but it's things like international scouting or amateur scouting
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I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.
I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.
If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.
I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
So you disagree with me that you suggested for months Sandy would be a major asset in reeling in a "big name" major hire because of his gravitas and now it's clear there may be some concerns with the FO having 2 Alderson's in major roles, and that the tier of guy they land likely didn't need Sandy Alderson here to come here? Deep down, you think the Mets would have been worse off if Sandy announced on the final day of the season he was retiring?
I asked you yesterday who the best alternatives were and the best you could come up with were Omar, Ricco, or just hiring a consulting firm like KF.
I feel infinitely more confident that Sandy will find someone better than those alternatives.
I never said Sandy would guarantee success or be the reason someone takes this job. He checks a box the others don't. He doesn't check every box.
I'm as disappointed they didn't get 1 of the big 3 as anyone else but I'm glad they tried.
Not sure what else I can say except let's see who they hire. You are entitled to feel however you would like but I think there's a much better chance you will like who they hire than you do.
Best I could come up with? I said at the bare minimum he had access to his own staff that it's been there for a decade (Sandy's son, Levin, Ricco, Tanous, Tramuta, + Omar). Why is 73 year old Sandy Alderson such a conduit to who the top young minds in baseball are? The Brewers didn't have a "Sandy Alderson" when their owner found Stearns, and most teams don't have a "Sandy Alderson" when hiring Sandy Alderson's "replacement" that's not the norm, newish owner or not.
Eric all due respect but you went on and on about how Sandy was a major feather in the cap in landing some big name. You went as far as to admit it would be a very disappointing outcome if Sandy were unable to "sell Cohen" on one of these big names. You also cited the Dodgers FO for some reason? Outside of Byrnes being named a VP vs. a traditional GM, they have a very "normal" setup over there. They just give out VP titles to positions the Mets do not or have not.
For example, Tanous holds 2 titles in his VP role (International AND Amateur scouting), the Dodgers have that role split into 2 people, Tony DeFrancesco is a "senior advisor" with player development/scouting whereas the Dodgers have 2 VP's, one in player development and one in scouting. Their hierarchy has more bodies but no more bodies "at the top" ie GM, assistant GM etc than a regular team/ The Mets.
Home / Mets News / Mets Prospects Impressing in Arizona Fall League
Mets Prospects Impressing in Arizona Fall League
By Michael Mayer
Updated: October 20, 2021
Mets Prospects Impressing in Arizona Fall League
The Salt River Rafters dropped just their second game of the Arizona Fall League season on Tuesday, 4-2, to the Peoria Javelinas. It was the first with of the season for the 1-5 Javelinas.
The River Rafters took an early lead thanks to an RBI single from Mets prospect Wilmer Reyes in the second inning. Peoria took a 3-1 lead into the seventh inning when Mets prospect Carlos Cortes hit a sac fly to inch the River Rafters closer.
LF Carlos Cortes 1-for-2, BB, RBI
SS Wilmer Reyes 1-for-3, RBI, BB
Cortes has been one of the best hitters on the River Rafters with a .385 average and 1.009 OPS. He was our No. 10 Mets prospect in our most recent rankings updates.
The 23-year-old Reyes has impressed early as well, he’s hitting .308 with a .855 OPS so far.
Mets third base prospect Brett Baty got his first day off during AFL action. He’s been the catalyst thus far for the River Rafters with a .444 average and team best 1.287 OPS....
link - ( New Window )
Best I could come up with? I said at the bare minimum he had access to his own staff that it's been there for a decade (Sandy's son, Levin, Ricco, Tanous, Tramuta, + Omar). Why is 73 year old Sandy Alderson such a conduit to who the top young minds in baseball are? The Brewers didn't have a "Sandy Alderson" when their owner found Stearns, and most teams don't have a "Sandy Alderson" when hiring Sandy Alderson's "replacement" that's not the norm, newish owner or not.
why does the richest owner in baseball with the resources to do anything he wants and one of the most successful executives on wall street trust Sandy Alderson more than Omar Minaya, whom he is friends with, or top tier business consultancies he's likely worked with numerous times?
I would posit the answer lies somewhere in Sandy's HOF resume and generally universal respect around the game.
The counter argument seems to be that he's a puppet master manipulating this search to his families benefit based on unnamed and unattributed rumors and the fact that his son has worked for the team for 10 years and was recently promoted.
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Best I could come up with? I said at the bare minimum he had access to his own staff that it's been there for a decade (Sandy's son, Levin, Ricco, Tanous, Tramuta, + Omar). Why is 73 year old Sandy Alderson such a conduit to who the top young minds in baseball are? The Brewers didn't have a "Sandy Alderson" when their owner found Stearns, and most teams don't have a "Sandy Alderson" when hiring Sandy Alderson's "replacement" that's not the norm, newish owner or not.
why does the richest owner in baseball with the resources to do anything he wants and one of the most successful executives on wall street trust Sandy Alderson more than Omar Minaya, whom he is friends with, or top tier business consultancies he's likely worked with numerous times?
I would posit the answer lies somewhere in Sandy's HOF resume and generally universal respect around the game.
The counter argument seems to be that he's a puppet master manipulating this search to his families benefit based on unnamed and unattributed rumors and the fact that his son has worked for the team for 10 years and was recently promoted.
You have flat out stated that Cohen is a new owner and needs help making these kinds of decisions (multiple times), Cohen wanted Arn Tellem as his GM (Brodie much?) and now you are suggesting Cohen's opinion of Sandy means something? How can it be both ways?
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that's your right. I'm not sure why you don't think it's fair to wait to see who they hire. but I suppose that's also your right.
Eric all due respect but you went on and on about how Sandy was a major feather in the cap in landing some big name. You went as far as to admit it would be a very disappointing outcome if Sandy were unable to "sell Cohen" on one of these big names. You also cited the Dodgers FO for some reason? Outside of Byrnes being named a VP vs. a traditional GM, they have a very "normal" setup over there. They just give out VP titles to positions the Mets do not or have not.
For example, Tanous holds 2 titles in his VP role (International AND Amateur scouting), the Dodgers have that role split into 2 people, Tony DeFrancesco is a "senior advisor" with player development/scouting whereas the Dodgers have 2 VP's, one in player development and one in scouting. Their hierarchy has more bodies but no more bodies "at the top" ie GM, assistant GM etc than a regular team/ The Mets.
Your position seems to be that the search is a disaster because the met front office is being run by nepotism and Sandy's ego under Cohen's watch?
If so what does that say about Cohen?
Yes. Not sure how many times I can say that, by your own account like 10 minutes ago I have been "going on and on about it".
We have seen him make seemingly good hires in the past and I don't think Cohen is a moron who is getting bamboozled.
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didn't answer above, you are happy Sandy has returned for the 2022 season correct?
Yes. Not sure how many times I can say that, by your own account like 10 minutes ago I have been "going on and on about it".
We have seen him make seemingly good hires in the past and I don't think Cohen is a moron who is getting bamboozled.
Again, you flat out said Cohen couldn't do this without Sandy's help, but wouldn't that imply (in terms of baseball) Cohen doesn't really know what he's doing aka reliant on somebody else? I wouldn't use "moron" because he's a obviously a great businessman, but judge of baseball talent/executives? He very well may prove to be a moron. How would we know? Because he's very rich?
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Thomas Szapucki, who underwent ulnar transposition surgery over the summer (per MLB.com), is continuing to build up and will be back. The organization plans to have Szapucki, who debuted in the bigs in 2021, back on the mound in 2022.
(I've heard off the record Late July/August for Allan)
@michaelgbaron
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3m
#Mets prospect Brett Baty is the @MLBazFallLeague
hitter of the week. He leads the league in average (.500) and OPS (1.417).
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In comment 15422616 DanMetroMan said:
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didn't answer above, you are happy Sandy has returned for the 2022 season correct?
Yes. Not sure how many times I can say that, by your own account like 10 minutes ago I have been "going on and on about it".
We have seen him make seemingly good hires in the past and I don't think Cohen is a moron who is getting bamboozled.
Again, you flat out said Cohen couldn't do this without Sandy's help, but wouldn't that imply (in terms of baseball) Cohen doesn't really know what he's doing aka reliant on somebody else? I wouldn't use "moron" because he's a obviously a great businessman, but judge of baseball talent/executives? He very well may prove to be a moron. How would we know? Because he's very rich?
I didn't say Cohen couldn't do it without Sandy's help - I have the exact same questions as yours that i've bolded above. He is not experienced in hiring baseball executives and would do well to have someone help him.
where we disagree is:
I think Cohen is making a good choice to have Sandy in that role.
you think Cohen is wrong because Sandy is trying to retain control, biased towards his son, etc.
both of us are just guessing until we see who they hire and we've exhausted our reasons so maybe we just wait to see who they hire and judge that hire as best we can?
and not the area where he usually beclowns himself.
didn't you say Seidler blocked you on twitter a few months ago over something insane?
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Seidler is sky high on Baty, has him top 25-30 in the sport.
and not the area where he usually beclowns himself.
didn't you say Seidler blocked you on twitter a few months ago over something insane?
He blocked me for saying something he interpreted as pro-Bauer (this was before the rape stuff) but unbeknownst to me his then fiance/now wife was one of Bauer's high profile "social media" targets. So I did understand his sensitivity once I spoke to him.
". Peter played baseball and tennis while growing up outside of Cleveland, and claims to be an excellent ping-pong player.
Right but didn't you say some of those guys bowed out of previous searches because of how they viewed the structures they were walking into as problematic?
I believe Porter had a similar history before taking the met job last year, right?
Let's see who they get. The result is all that matters. I've said this numerous times but for me the baseline is Porter. If they can't get someone they view as better than Porter this time around I'd literally just bring him back if I were the owner.
Anyone less appealing than Porter is a failure IMO.
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believe you're completely overstating the value of Sandy Alderson to this search, and quite frankly (and things may in fact change) even the suggested names are guys we have heard talked up for years (I admit I didn't know much about Gomes) but Matt Arnold was up for GM jobs for a few years now, Josh Byrnes for the better part of a decade, Scott Harris was director of baseball operations for the WS winning Cubs, which is why he's now the GM of the Giants, these aren't exactly deep dive "Sandy could help direct the search" names to anybody who follows baseball closely.
Right but didn't you say some of those guys bowed out of previous searches because of how they viewed the structures they were walking into as problematic?
I believe Porter had a similar history before taking the met job last year, right?
Let's see who they get. The result is all that matters. I've said this numerous times but for me the baseline is Porter. If they can't get someone they view as better than Porter this time around I'd literally just bring him back if I were the owner.
Anyone less appealing than Porter is a failure IMO.
It's believed Byrnes strongly prefers the West Coast and/or needs the absolute perfect situation to leave LAD. I'm guessing/assuming he realizes his stock will never be higher and taking the wrong job now likely = his last shot doing so in such a major role. Matt Arnold was "blocked" by the Brewers from leaving as they promoted him to GM (which is what's rumored to happen with Gomes and LAD). Scott Harris, who knows? But he's from SF and has only been GM for a brief period, would be a "risky" run the entire show hire (like Arnold), I'm not suggesting "risk" means bad.
Carlos Rodriguez
VICE PRESIDENT, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AND INTERNATIONAL SCOUTING
Carlos Rodriguez enters his 11th season with the Rays and his second as vice president of player development and international scouting. In this role, Rodriguez reports to Erik Neander and assists in all areas of baseball operations, while overseeing the club’s player development system, baseball performance science, international scouting and academy operations. From 2015 through 2019, Rodriguez served as director of international scouting, following three years as director of Latin American scouting (2012-14). During this stretch, he played a key role in scouting and signing José Alvarado, Vidal Bruján, Diego Castillo, Yonny Chirinos, Wander Franco, Moisés Gómez, Ronaldo Hernández and Jesús Sánchez, among others. Rodriguez joined the Rays in the fall of 2010 as a professional and international scout after four seasons with the Blue Jays as an area scout. In 2009, he signed Yan Gomes from Barry University, the first Brazilian-born player to reach the major leagues. Rodriguez also spent a season as an intern for the Brewers. A native of Puerto Rico, Rodriguez attended the University of North Florida where he played and served as an assistant coach. He graduated in 2004 with a degree in business, double majoring in international business and economics. He and his wife, Omayra, reside in Tampa with their daughter, Eva Marie.
Do I need Sandy as part of the oganization - absolutely not. But I am not going to lose sleep over him there since it’s more transient verse someone like Jell Wilson or one of the Maras.
Seems like now is the time to allow him to learn a new position (OF would be awesome)
Bendix has been the Rays director of baseball development since December 2015, serving essentially as a liaison between the research and development department and the rest of the organization. He started as an intern in 2009.
"He’s been a mainstay in our baseball operations group for some time now,'' Neander said. "In many respects he serves as a bridge or a conduit between our research and development concepts and a variety of other perspectives in our operation, a communicator of information really in all directions. That’s invaluable to us as we continue to grow and expand and pursue new knowledge. So that’s been a big part of his role.
"With respect to our major-league team, our player processing, the decision making that exists there, Pete has taken on more and more in that area over the last couple of years. Really, really confident with the work that he’s done, and he has been as influential in constructing our major-league roster as anybody here. More a continuation of the good work he’s done, and a recognition for that.''
Sandy Alderson, one-of-a-kind man for all seasons.
that doesn't mean im not disappointed they couldn't make Theo happen because he was the grand slam.
or that they couldn't make Beane happen even though I think he's more of a 2 run homer. though I was less surprised by that because he's said no a million times before.
i'm surprised they couldn't make Stearns happen if they really wanted him. Unlike the other 2 a blank check is a very big deal.
but the world doesn't end with those 3. they did the right thing by trying to get them and for me it's reassuring that's what they were aiming for.
Seems like now is the time to allow him to learn a new position (OF would be awesome)
I suspect they believe the transition to OF is relatively "easy" vs. other spots. I'm not a scout but he looked slow (plus arm) in his movements at SS and Keith Law (who likes him a lot and previously praised the glove saw him in July and graded his SS play a 40/80, and suggested a move to 3b/OF). I also suspect this has more to do with the fact he's not really in the mix for 2022 so his rawness at the plate is what they want him to focus on. If he hits like he's capable his position will be less of a concern. If he's even a "40" at SS but hits, his trade value also is significantly higher.
Do I need Sandy as part of the oganization - absolutely not. But I am not going to lose sleep over him there since it’s more transient verse someone like Jell Wilson or one of the Maras.
this is very much my take. Sandy has been saying since his return that he is not looking to remain involved and I see very little evidence to support otherwise.
they are never expected to or pressured to win. Reaching the playoffs or having a decent season is enough success to constitute what good looks like for them.
I'd view the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, etc. models as more what you want. Sure, the Yankees haven't won in a while, but getting knocked out in the WC (or at any point) is considered a failure. A world series is the goal every single season.
that's the kind of pressure I'd like to see an owner levy on this staff.
it would influence different behavior I think from the A's and Rays.
Just my opinion.
and that's with their owner's son as their director of player development.
they are never expected to or pressured to win. Reaching the playoffs or having a decent season is enough success to constitute what good looks like for them.
I'd view the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, etc. models as more what you want. Sure, the Yankees haven't won in a while, but getting knocked out in the WC (or at any point) is considered a failure. A world series is the goal every single season.
that's the kind of pressure I'd like to see an owner levy on this staff.
it would influence different behavior I think from the A's and Rays.
Just my opinion.
PJ,
The head of the Dodgers (Friedman) was hired from the Rays. The head of the Braves flat out said his time with Friedman is a major factor in his success with Atl. Chaim Bloom... Rays, Erik Neander is considered one of the top minds in the game, Matt Arnold? hired by the Brewers from... the Rays. It's a fact the Rays FO tree has produced the best of the best.
Neander Rays
Arnold Rays
Friedman Rays
Bloom Rays
James Click (Astros GM) Rays
I think it's safe to say Andrew Friedman took his "Rays" time and used it with a bigger payroll (much bigger) quite nicely with LAD.
It's a who's who of names who came from TB
Rays, Red Sox, Brewers, Astros, Dodgers all have ex-Rays as president or GM.
Clearly you can see the difference, right?
When did the Rays ever acquire a Scherzer at the deadline as opposed to selling or exceed the luxury ever, forget about multiple years in a row.
Even this year some people claim the Rays "selling" at the deadline led to their early exit - Castillo, Hill, etc. even with the Nelson add.
Clearly you can see the difference, right?
When did the Rays ever acquire a Scherzer at the deadline as opposed to selling or exceed the luxury ever, forget about multiple years in a row.
Even this year some people claim the Rays "selling" at the deadline led to their early exit - Castillo, Hill, etc. even with the Nelson add.
I fully believe (and have read) that Friedman took what he learned in TB (including hiring of the best and brightest young minds he could find) and creating something of a "commune" with LAD. Other minds wants to join the Dodgers because of the process Friedman has implemented.
""The Los Angeles Dodgers are obviously one of the premiere organizations in the game, but the people that work here are the main draw," Anthopoulos said via conference call on Tuesday. "The ability to work with Andrew [Friedman], Farhan [Zaidi] and Josh [Byrnes] and everyone that's here.""
Zaidi headed to SF where we know the success he had this year, AA headed to the Braves and we see what they are doing
"You surround yourself with people who are really smart and really accomplished, you can get better," Anthopoulos said. "And with my experience and what I've been through, I expect to be able to help out as well."
"Ultimately Andrew does have the final say, which is the way it should be. But he's someone who values input and there is great collaboration on that end. I respect those guys so much. It's really exciting for me because I do think it's a great fit, and I think I'm going to improve myself being with them day in and day out.
"Anytime you take executives from other clubs, you're not all going to look at the world the same way. You put them all together, we can consolidate our ideas and thoughts. Hopefully it results in wins."
the Dodgers are the model and Cohen rightfully said so from day 1. The challenge has been finding a Friedman, which isn't really a huge surprise because so far there's really only 1 Friedman in MLB (and 1 Theo before him).
Maybe Bloom becomes the next one. Or Stearns. Or Zaidi. Or the Twins guys. Or Billy Owens. Or Heck. Or whoever. That's what this search is all about.
this is where this situation is a rubiks cube.
if they think Heck (or whoever) is a big time GM/player development guru then I want that guy inside the FO. or at least the flexibility to get that guy even if there were other areas of concern where he is too green - and where imo having a Sandy around who can functionally bridge gaps is helpful.
The stated preference since day 1 has been to find the experienced president first - but by virtue of the fact that they want someone experienced there are only so many quality candidates available. Is pairing one of the experienced AND available names like Hill or Melvin with a super star young GM preferable to keeping Sandy around and remaining flexible over the next few years as contract situations play out elsewhere? For me it's not.
And for me the top priority is getting as many great baseball minds in the door as possible regardless of where their specialties and experience levels are presently.
Neander Rays
Arnold Rays
Friedman Rays
Bloom Rays
James Click (Astros GM) Rays
I think it's safe to say Andrew Friedman took his "Rays" time and used it with a bigger payroll (much bigger) quite nicely with LAD.
It's a who's who of names who came from TB
So.. to build on my earlier narratives...
What you are seeing is that the Rays (1 of 30 teams) have basically abandoned the incestuous, nepotism driven hiring model traditionally employed by privately owned MLB franchises and have replaced it with...
A corporate talent development pipeline, likely offering competitive salaries for highly talented, highly educated graduates who don't have to take a shot on an unpaid internship of low paying entry level MLB job with a chance at a handful of jobs vs guaranteed 6 digit salaries in other industries...
FO salaries aren't as publicly available as player salaries but since Tampa doesn't spend a ton of money on anything and their retention rates of executives are if anything low since so many have been poached I doubt they are succeeding because they are paying more throughout their FO.
Tampa has succeeded by being best in breed at player development (where their owner's former Goldman Sachs/Paramount Pictures intern son works!) and by having a consistent strategy they've committed to for a long time home growing talent and maximizing their return on that talent in lieu of paying them to add more resources to adding young talent. It didn't work day 1 and the results of it being deployed at big markets were mixed (see red sox/bloom/betts trade).
Oakland's moneyball approach was similar in committing to something different than everyone else but different in how they did so.
the moral of the story imo is hire smart people who can commit to an approach that fits the team/payroll/market. the LAD model is the right one for the Mets and Cohen has been right in pursuing it. I'd guess he will be the first to agree with all of us that trying doesn't matter and the results do and on that they have failed so far.
Link - ( New Window )
@mikemayer22
·
1m
Mets announce that Carlos Carrasco underwent successful surgery yesterday to remove a bone fragment from his right elbow.
Carrasco missed a large portion of the 2021 season and posted a 6.04 ERA in 53 2/3 innings.
FO salaries aren't as publicly available as player salaries but since Tampa doesn't spend a ton of money on anything and their retention rates of executives are if anything low since so many have been poached I doubt they are succeeding because they are paying more throughout their FO.
Tampa has succeeded by being best in breed at player development (where their owner's former Goldman Sachs/Paramount Pictures intern son works!) and by having a consistent strategy they've committed to for a long time home growing talent and maximizing their return on that talent in lieu of paying them to add more resources to adding young talent. It didn't work day 1 and the results of it being deployed at big markets were mixed (see red sox/bloom/betts trade).
Oakland's moneyball approach was similar in committing to something different than everyone else but different in how they did so.
the moral of the story imo is hire smart people who can commit to an approach that fits the team/payroll/market. the LAD model is the right one for the Mets and Cohen has been right in pursuing it. I'd guess he will be the first to agree with all of us that trying doesn't matter and the results do and on that they have failed so far.
Director of player development for the Rays is Peter Bendix. I think you are mistaken in this "big" role Sternberg's son has. Can't find a single piece suggesting anything of the sort, and his title appears about 30 names down the Rays FO page with no such major title.
Up until July the 2 of them had the same level title despite Bryn Alderson actually having worked in baseball for 20 years.
@mikemayer22
·
1m
Mets announce that Carlos Carrasco underwent successful surgery yesterday to remove a bone fragment from his right elbow.
Carrasco missed a large portion of the 2021 season and posted a 6.04 ERA in 53 2/3 innings.
Almost good news given how bad he looked.
Up until July the 2 of them had the same level title despite Bryn Alderson actually having worked in baseball for 20 years.
Title's fluctuate from team to team but look how many names appear before him on the Rays page, if Cohen hires his son, it'll be a non story, if he hires his son and he's named GM then it's going to be a story.
@michaelgbaron
·
2m
#Mets rotation right now:
Jacob deGrom (elbow inflammation, didn’t pitch in the 2nd half)
Taijuan Walker (7.13 second half ERA)
Carlos Carrasco (6.04 ERA in 2021, now recovering from elbow surgery)
Even if you add Noah Syndergaard back in, he’s thrown 2 innings in 2 years.
or the guy who has almost 20 years of a variety of scouting roles his resume (presumably making the exact risky choice with low pay and shitty travel you've described in this thread)?
both could be screw ups. neither could be screw ups. we don't know and it doesn't really matter.
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everywhere. If he spends 10+ years with Tampa like Bryn Alderson has I'm sure he will have a bigger role too.
Up until July the 2 of them had the same level title despite Bryn Alderson actually having worked in baseball for 20 years.
Title's fluctuate from team to team but look how many names appear before him on the Rays page, if Cohen hires his son, it'll be a non story, if he hires his son and he's named GM then it's going to be a story.
Bryn Alderson was hired 10 years ago as a scout, remained a met after Sandy left the organization, and it is within the realm of possibility deserving of any promotions he's received. they have publicly commented that his presence is a non issue on any new hires having autonomy (in the article you linked).
@michaelgbaron
·
2m
#Mets rotation right now:
Jacob deGrom (elbow inflammation, didn’t pitch in the 2nd half)
Taijuan Walker (7.13 second half ERA)
Carlos Carrasco (6.04 ERA in 2021, now recovering from elbow surgery)
Even if you add Noah Syndergaard back in, he’s thrown 2 innings in 2 years.
and JT Ginn really the only SP prospect (on paper) anywhere near 2022 discussion.
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In comment 15422873 Eric on Li said:
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everywhere. If he spends 10+ years with Tampa like Bryn Alderson has I'm sure he will have a bigger role too.
Up until July the 2 of them had the same level title despite Bryn Alderson actually having worked in baseball for 20 years.
Title's fluctuate from team to team but look how many names appear before him on the Rays page, if Cohen hires his son, it'll be a non story, if he hires his son and he's named GM then it's going to be a story.
Bryn Alderson was hired 10 years ago as a scout, remained a met after Sandy left the organization, and it is within the realm of possibility deserving of any promotions he's received. they have publicly commented that his presence is a non issue on any new hires having autonomy (in the article you linked).
"They have"? Sandy... HIS FATHER has. C'mon Eric, even in defense of the Mets that's silly.
"Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
Any other answer would be off the wall nuts.
"Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
Any other answer would be off the wall nuts.
making a public comment for the team? if he's defending his son and making decisions in this search not cleared by Cohen I think he'd be fired on the spot.
Cohen fired Porter pretty much on the spot for less than that.
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pretend Sandy Alderson is a human sack of shit and his son is a complete moron who doesn't deserve a job in baseball. Would you expect him to say something other than this?
"Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
Any other answer would be off the wall nuts.
making a public comment for the team? if he's defending his son and making decisions in this search not cleared by Cohen I think he'd be fired on the spot.
Cohen fired Porter pretty much on the spot for less than that.
Huh? Sandy was asked if his son would be an issue and he said no. What in the world would you expect him to say?
does that seem plausible to you? do you think Cohen isn't highly aware of what's going on in this search and only checking in when Sandy books him a lunch with Theo?
does that seem plausible to you? do you think Cohen isn't highly aware of what's going on in this search and only checking in when Sandy books him a lunch with Theo?
Where did I suggest such a thing? I stated having 2 HIGH ranking members of your FO be 1. A father who "previously" ran the team ya know, as recently as NOW, and 2. His recently promoted son (promoted by him) is a potential issue for potential candidates (especially those with less experience). You find this to be absurd, that's your right but I'm not sure why.
or you think Cohen is pro-nepotism and blessing sandy keeping his son involved despite him hindering the search for a team president/gm.
there is no way on the planet Cohen is allowing anyone to promote their kid in his organization at the expense of the team and organization.
or you think Cohen is pro-nepotism and blessing sandy keeping his son involved despite him hindering the search for a team president/gm.
there is no way on the planet Cohen is allowing anyone to promote their kid in his organization at the expense of the team and organization.
Nope. I don't think Cohen is in the "war room" when it comes to most moves and I believe Cohen (for whatever the reason) loves Sandy Alderson (was beyond quick to bring him on) so of course he's going to be comfortable with his son still on board.
it would entirely depend on the contract I signed and the people involved I was dealing with. The 3 known candidates they went after indicate it's a non-issue because all 3 would have required 100% complete control and 2 almost definitely would have required record setting ownership equity for a front office member. That doesn't jive with "but you also have to keep bryn alderson around even if you think he's a fuck up".
Sandy as an employee of the Mets running this search made official comments on this and specifically said autonomy was a non-issue. If the candidates they are interviewing won't have autonomy that public statement is a lie either with or without Cohen's blessing and neither seems plausible.
or the guy who has almost 20 years of a variety of scouting roles his resume (presumably making the exact risky choice with low pay and shitty travel you've described in this thread)?
both could be screw ups. neither could be screw ups. we don't know and it doesn't really matter.
Both have generational wealth and are working for pride/fun anyway... there is no risk in the equation for them.
In your 20s and married with a kid and a mortgage and no rich parents? Harder to go after a gig in pro sports than other paths..
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wouldn't feel kind of funny taking a job that was previously held by a guy who is still there in an "unknown" capacity (and has stated he does want a "seat at the table"), this guys son is assistant GM, and another your assistant GM's worked for the old guy for a decade? You wouldn't think "hmmm, it could potentially be an issue when we are debating moves and the room isn't full of people I picked and 2 of which are father in son"? Absolutely zero potential reservations at all, nobody could ever think about such a thing?
it would entirely depend on the contract I signed and the people involved I was dealing with. The 3 known candidates they went after indicate it's a non-issue because all 3 would have required 100% complete control and 2 almost definitely would have required record setting ownership equity for a front office member. That doesn't jive with "but you also have to keep bryn alderson around even if you think he's a fuck up".
Sandy as an employee of the Mets running this search made official comments on this and specifically said autonomy was a non-issue. If the candidates they are interviewing won't have autonomy that public statement is a lie either with or without Cohen's blessing and neither seems plausible.
You keep harping on this idea Bryn Alderson is a Jeff Wilpon 2.0, why can't it be a less than ideal situation to have the old boss, his son and a 10 year employee as 3/5, or 50% of your likely FO? Why must it be so nefarious?
Any and all concerns any candidate has (Alderson family or otherwise) are fair game when they or their agents talk to Cohen and that is where the responsibility is on Cohen to do whatever it takes to land the right guy - including clean house of the aldersons if that's what it takes. It is ultimately his decision, his franchise, his money, his investment to grow.
If nothing else Sandy's comment today is an acknowledgment that they know autonomy is crucial. Which he's also indicated several times before since returning. I've yet to see anything that makes me think these lightly sourced speculation is anything more than clickbait designed to elicit clicks/shares from the very many met fans who don't like Sandy at the moment. mission accomplished I suppose.
Any and all concerns any candidate has (Alderson family or otherwise) are fair game when they or their agents talk to Cohen and that is where the responsibility is on Cohen to do whatever it takes to land the right guy - including clean house of the aldersons if that's what it takes. It is ultimately his decision, his franchise, his money, his investment to grow.
If nothing else Sandy's comment today is an acknowledgment that they know autonomy is crucial. Which he's also indicated several times before since returning. I've yet to see anything that makes me think these lightly sourced speculation is anything more than clickbait designed to elicit clicks/shares from the very many met fans who don't like Sandy at the moment. mission accomplished I suppose.
Eric,
Sandy was asked the autonomy question. I'm really unclear why you're so hung up on his statement as if provided real clarity. He was asked about it and he said it would be a non-issue. The alternative would have been "no comment".
Will he want to come though? He's in a high position already, well compensated and working 10 minutes from where he grew up and his childhood home.
Bernie Pleskoff
@BerniePleskoff
·
2m
@Mets
Garrison Bryant threw three innings. He's out of the game now. 3IP 1H 0R 1W 3K
Drafted in 2016 in the 36th round
Will he want to come though? He's in a high position already, well compensated and working 10 minutes from where he grew up and his childhood home.
Scott Harris would be a home run (on paper) but as you noted, he's from SF, is already a GM and has very little experience at that level so you're bringing him in to be the POBO and learn on the job. Doesn't mean it can't be done but 2 seasons as GM, 1 season as an assistant GM... straight to running an entire organization (remember he's had Farhan Zaidi as his boss, so this would be a major step up to "the guy".
"That also aligns with finding a compromise point between the earlier proposed low point ($17 million per season) and the proposed high point ($25 million per). The longer the deal is for Báez, the lower the average annual value. You can imagine a seven-year deal at $21 million per year ($147 million total) or six at $22.5 million per year ($135 million total) or five at $24 million each ($120 million total)."
John From Albany
@JohnFromAlbany
·
13m
Today in Arizona:
Baty 0 for 3, 2 BBs, 1 run.
Senger 1 for 3, 1 BB.
W. Reyes 0 for 2, 2 BBs.
G. Bryant, 3 inns, no runs, 1 hit, 1 BB, 3 Ks.
C. Grey (L, 1-1) 3 inns, 1 run, 3 hits, 2 BBs, 3 Ks.
B. Metoyer 1 inn, 1 run, 1 hit, 2 BBs, 2 Ks.
Agree, it would be idiotic to hire a manager first
That begged the question of why Beane removed himself from consideration in the Mets’ search. To him, the answer was simple: His family is more important than his career.
“Creating chaos in my children’s lives for my own ambition feels like a selfish thing to do,” Beane said.
Beane has twin girls entering the same Catholic high school that his wife attended. They are involved in sports and have built a life there.
either way theses quotes don't matter. none of the rumors matter. the only thing that matters is they get it right with whoever they do hire. Beane/Theo would have been moonshots and I think there was legitimately a chance they could have gotten one of them. Not asking would have been worse than asking and getting turned down. it makes the search harder to have to continue to look elsewhere but not impossible to still get right.
Billy Beane: Working with Mets’ Sandy Alderson and Steve Cohen an 'amazing opportunity' - ( New Window )
you are right there is nothing shocking or new in Beane's comments - which is why I've posted that Sandy is a net + ever since Cohen brought him back and separate from Beane specifically being a candidate. I doubt there's anyone he's as close with as Beane but he's been around and considered to be respected as much as just about anyone in MLB.
it is literally no different than how some viewed Sandy as a way to make Cohen more palatable to owners prior to the vote last year. people in baseball know and trust Sandy.
he could have said nothing and denied he had any interest elsewhere, the same way he has pretty much every offseason it's come up for 20 years. literally 2 weeks ago he was laughing off the rumors entirely like he hadn't even read them.
either way as I said it doesn't matter whether or not he almost came here or didn't. the only thing that matters is who they get. not who thought about coming here but didn't.
I have consistently stated and continue to think the content of what Beane put his name to - that Cohen/Alderson are appealing to work for - is true and roughly 10 million times more credible than the unattributed rumors about an Alderson family power grab. But the results of who they ultimately hire will either validate that or not far more than named or unnamed quotes. I thought Porter was a solid hire when they got him last year and I expect someone at least as good as that. Anything worse will be a failure.
heyman is hit or miss but that one is particularly strange. so is the Melvin rumor. we met fans are always on edge and there's a big social media contingent that's gleeful at any piece of info they can get that can rile up the lolmets sentiment. and there are countless nick francona's we've never heard of who feel they've been wronged and are more than willing to give reporters the quote they want from "a source within the baseball world".
the most relevant data point (imo) for this year's search is last year's search. very few leaks got out during the process and it turned out there were some well established young executives in play who were nowhere on the media's radar.
we don't entirely know how good/bad they viewed their own decision after working with Porter for a few months (pre scandal) - but if they liked him I expect they will follow a similar approach and look for someone similar. Charismatic young exec with a background from one of the winning trees (Theo/LAD/TB/etc). Probably with a few more questions about text etiquette.
pretty sure you just guaranteed the reintroduction of Terry Collins as manager on Monday or Tuesday, 24-48 hours prior to naming Doug Melvin POBO with Bryn Alderson promoted to GM.
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I’m banning myself from a single pessimistic Met comment for one week if the Knicks win this game. Self imposed
pretty sure you just guaranteed the reintroduction of Terry Collins as manager on Monday or Tuesday, 24-48 hours prior to naming Doug Melvin POBO with Bryn Alderson promoted to GM.
All kidding aside Terry Collins is extremely nice, he used to go
To this bar in LIC called PJ Leahy’s and he was just one of the guys and while it was weird pretending I wasn’t kinda starstruck he was one of the nicest “celebrities” I’ve ever encountered. He remembered us when we saw him again. Not our names, but that we had met
All kidding aside Terry Collins is extremely nice, he used to go
To this bar in LIC called PJ Leahy’s and he was just one of the guys and while it was weird pretending I wasn’t kinda starstruck he was one of the nicest “celebrities” I’ve ever encountered. He remembered us when we saw him again. Not our names, but that we had met
he got a bad rep. I thought he made almost every right decision in the 2015 playoffs. He was better than Mattingly in the LAD series and it had an impact. Yes he should have pulled Harvey in the WS but in the moment EVERYONE wanted him to stay in. And they would have still gotten out of it if Duda made the throw home.
It was completely fair to try to find a new voice after 2017 but when it was clear early on Mickey wasn't playing with a full deck I would have fired him and pulled a jack mckeon bringing back Collins (pretty sure he was still in the org at that point).
One of the best manager blow ups.
One of the best manager blow ups.
generally agree but in that postseason he pushed all the right buttons. the 6 out game 5 save with Familia vs. LAD was particularly ballsy. I think he had him go for multi-inning saves in game 1 also. He got challenges right. He kept the them from losing their emotions after the Utley play (not just being pissed at the dirty play but remember Utley ended up getting called safe and scoring to flip the outcome of the game to make the series 1-1 instead of 0-2).
that series was decided by a very slim margin and ultimately got mattingly fired.
Is Cast going to get a QO?
If it's a choice between Conforto and a SP or Conforto and Baez, it's an understandable decision either way.
Honestly it's just an understandable decision to not think it's worth committing $100m to any COF'er. It might be a better investment to extend Nimmo early at a more manageable amount. Nimmo's durability is a huge question but Conforto hasn't exactly been an iron man either.
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kinda curious why I see so many mets fans on twitter eager to sign Castellanos and dump Conforto. On paper it's a completely linear move. Unless you think Conforto is more "in decline/done" vs. a bad year it doesn't move the needle at all but I see a bunch of people suggesting it?
Is Cast going to get a QO?
Yes. He will have a pick attached. Same as Conforto.
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In comment 15423647 DanMetroMan said:
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kinda curious why I see so many mets fans on twitter eager to sign Castellanos and dump Conforto. On paper it's a completely linear move. Unless you think Conforto is more "in decline/done" vs. a bad year it doesn't move the needle at all but I see a bunch of people suggesting it?
Is Cast going to get a QO?
Yes. He will have a pick attached. Same as Conforto.
Sorry.. same as Conforto assuming the Mets offer him a QO.
If it's a choice between Conforto and a SP or Conforto and Baez, it's an understandable decision either way.
Honestly it's just an understandable decision to not think it's worth committing $100m to any COF'er. It might be a better investment to extend Nimmo early at a more manageable amount. Nimmo's durability is a huge question but Conforto hasn't exactly been an iron man either.
I understand this line of thinking, I just don't understand getting a pick for Conforto, losing a pick for Castellanos when they are very, very similar players for their careers (production wise), like absurdly so. Is it just the excitement of a "new guy"?
a) Conforto 5 years 100-125m
b) Nimmo 4 years 70-90m (assuming a decent discount for early extension)
c) Stroman 5 years 100-125m
d) Baez 5 years 120m (Britton estimate from an article yesterday)
for me I think in order I'd go:
D, B, C, A. But Conforto and Stroman are a tie. I could flip a coin either way on that one.
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I would not in a million years spend similar money on a similar player who hasn't played here before.
If it's a choice between Conforto and a SP or Conforto and Baez, it's an understandable decision either way.
Honestly it's just an understandable decision to not think it's worth committing $100m to any COF'er. It might be a better investment to extend Nimmo early at a more manageable amount. Nimmo's durability is a huge question but Conforto hasn't exactly been an iron man either.
I understand this line of thinking, I just don't understand getting a pick for Conforto, losing a pick for Castellanos when they are very, very similar players for their careers (production wise), like absurdly so. Is it just the excitement of a "new guy"?
100% yes. Many fans memories don't go back more than 8 months and they think the most recent seasons performance is what they are going to get next year. That's why some were seriously debating Dom vs. Alonso at this time last year and talking about Conforto for $150m+.
I tend to agree but normally I'd lean position player due to durability. Stroman has so much athleticism though and his velocity isn't high so right or wrong I think his durability is less risky than other pitchers. I do think there's a chance they decide to just move on from him and not buy high. He seems ultra sensitive and I think at times can be a bit of a distraction. But it's real hard to find good pitching.
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be more apt to keep Stroman over Conforto if that's my choice. I think a good FO should be able to find a solid CO (not Conforto at his best level) but a league average regular on the "cheap". I think SP will be very hard to come by and the Mets don't have depth there. If they let Stroman walk, I still like Eduardo Rodriguez.
I tend to agree but normally I'd lean position player due to durability. Stroman has so much athleticism though and his velocity isn't high so right or wrong I think his durability is less risky than other pitchers. I do think there's a chance they decide to just move on from him and not buy high. He seems ultra sensitive and I think at times can be a bit of a distraction. But it's real hard to find good pitching.
I actually dislike him personally. He's not just sensitive, he's hyper sensitive and even searches his own name on twitter. He attacks writers online etc. I don't have any moral issue cheering for a guy I don't care for so that's not a big deal to me, but I also won't go nuts if they let him go (with a proper replacement).
imo this year's team lost because they were mentally weak. the braves lost Acuna who was possibly leading the MVP vote and look where they are now. Soroka tore his achilles in ST.
the met every day players from July to the end of the season were every bit as talented as Atlanta's. They just caved in to pressure and let things like the boo'ing get in their heads. they never got the big hit and never looked like they were having fun. the SP looked tired. and Edwin Diaz Edwin Diaz'd the few potential turning points.
and just to fill in all the blanks before the JDG excuses fly in, the Braves SP in the 2nd half wasn't even dramatically better. Fried and Morton were great but you can't tell me Stroman doesn't have the capacity to be as good or better than either of them. They started 14/15 games respectively and were each worth 2.5+ fwar just in the 2nd half (Stroman was worth 1.7). The Braves next 3 starters who pitched most in the 2nd half had near 5 ERAs and a combined record under .500 and a combined fwar of just .5.
Stroman and Hill combined to start almost as many games as Fried/Morton and both had era's under 4. Megill/Carrasco/Walker all started 12+ games and Trevor Williams actually had the lowest era of all starters in the 2nd half though he only made 3 starts. The fact is nobody on the entire roster stepped up as much as they needed to (Stroman included). With the possible exception of Baez who had as good of a 2nd half as you can hope for minus the boo'ing fiasco.
a) Conforto 5 years 100-125m
b) Nimmo 4 years 70-90m (assuming a decent discount for early extension)
c) Stroman 5 years 100-125m
d) Baez 5 years 120m (Britton estimate from an article yesterday)
for me I think in order I'd go:
D, B, C, A. But Conforto and Stroman are a tie. I could flip a coin either way on that one.
I prioritize Noah over all of them... and then even at that I'd say e) All of the Above
But if I had to prioritize I'd go B, A, C, D... would prefer they go after Correa over Baez but I suppose if you go after Correa and miss, you lose Baez.
I like Stroman the person, but I just don't get the feel he ever dominates games, he's just constantly living on the edge and his competitiveness keeps him in it.. But I'm not arguing w/ having him as my #4 guy in a rotation... he's solid.
Thor sounds likely to accept the QO and I agree, I put him above all the names on that list.
As for the other 4, to resign all of the above you are looking at about $100m in AAV.
On top of the $100m already committed to JDG/Lindor/Cano/Carrasco.
And about 20m for Thor.
Those 9 players would cost as much as the LAD full roster opening day payroll. And it would be even more than that swapping in Correa for Baez.
In other words resigning all 4 long term is not very realistic or sensible considering how this past year ended up.
the rest of the guys I'd make the QO to those eligible and see what happens.
none of the FA's are irreplaceable even Stroman with how desperate the Mets are, I agree Syndergaard even barely pitching in two years is a higher priority than Stroman.
Nimmo maybe the highest priority, if he could stay healthy, but he's not a FA this year anyway, so I don't know if he gets prioritized this year.
the rest of the guys I'd make the QO to those eligible and see what happens.
none of the FA's are irreplaceable even Stroman with how desperate the Mets are, I agree Syndergaard even barely pitching in two years is a higher priority than Stroman.
Nimmo maybe the highest priority, if he could stay healthy, but he's not a FA this year anyway, so I don't know if he gets prioritized this year.
the thing with Nimmo is you might be able to lock in extra years without paying him much more. In the final arb year last year Conforto got $12.5m. Nimmo will probably cost similar with no extension.
He has said he is open to extension talks.
He has had numerous issues staying healthy.
If the Mets offer him something like 4/70-80m overall it's just a $5-7m raise in AAV but it keeps him under control for 3 extra years. Something along those lines might make sense for both sides since it's very hard to find two way CF'ers and also very risky for Nimmo to be confident he can stay healthy. AJ Pollock's 5/60m is probably the closest recent comp of a player in a similar situation as Nimmo.
The smart move (assuming you want to go this route) is tack on his new contract to his existing year, that allows you to circumvent AAV concerns.
I think they need to envision a roster construction going forward that is close to the LTT not counting the bad money that they will allow to expire in the next couple years, so that way they have the flexibility to avoid repeat offender status in the future.
So basically a $220m payroll that can accommodate whoever the "real core" is over the next 3-5 years. Lindor and JDG obviously are already locked in and they can estimate the arb costs for McNeil/Alonso/Dom. Then add in from there with Thor/Conforto/Baez/Nimmo/Stroman/etc. That's where the hard choices are because even going over the LTT you can't afford all of them.
but they need to be prepared to go over that $220m in the immediate future by at least the amount of Cano's deal since that's likely untradeable. Unless they can slip something into his protein shake again.
Also obviously a huge way to alleviate payroll issues is by phasing in young guys so I'd eliminate most ideas of 1 of Vientos/Baty being trade bait. I think it's almost a near necessity that they not get blocked and get every chance to win starting spots at 3b/COF over the next couple years (or whenever they are ready).
A-Rod never played anywhere else and he moved to 3rd despite being a better defensive SS than Jeter...
Not concerned about LT Uncle Steve didn't buy the team to not spend... If a move makes the team better and doesn't mortgage the future, you do it.
I'd argue spending 30% more on Correa vs paying Baez actually sets you up better for the future...
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
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is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
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In comment 15423936 pjcas18 said:
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is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
do you think the new POBO/GM should consider PCA as part of the decision to resign Baez?
or do you think the new POBO/GM shouldn't be the one to make the decision?
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In comment 15423942 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15423936 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
do you think the new POBO/GM should consider PCA as part of the decision to resign Baez?
or do you think the new POBO/GM shouldn't be the one to make the decision?
I think if Sandy is still in the picture in any operational capacity, the investment made in Baez will be a consideration toward keeping Baez.
Surprised Correa isn't at the top.
1. Seager (50 pts)
2. Correa (45 pts)
3. Semien (32 pts)
4. Story (23 pts)
5. Baez (15 pts)
they didn't include any contract predictions but I do wonder if maybe Baez will have a cooler market than we'd expect as Cespedes did in 2015 + 2016. they are very similar dynamic yet unpredictable talents in a lot of ways.
How evaluators rank MLB's billion-dollar class of free-agent shortstops -- and where each might land - ( New Window )
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In comment 15423947 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 15423942 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15423936 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
do you think the new POBO/GM should consider PCA as part of the decision to resign Baez?
or do you think the new POBO/GM shouldn't be the one to make the decision?
I think if Sandy is still in the picture in any operational capacity, the investment made in Baez will be a consideration toward keeping Baez.
ok
@WexlerRules
·
Oct 20
@StevenACohen2
Peter Bendix and Carlos Rodriguez from @RaysBaseball
both are impressive candidates. As part of your search committee might I suggest both be considered? Thanks! #Mets
Today-
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
As the Mets continue their front office search, Rays vice president of baseball development Peter Bendix is on their radar.
Bendix has been in the Rays organization since joining them as an intern back in 2009.
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In comment 15423936 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is sort of like Leonard Williams (at least as long as Sandy is still here) in that the investment has been unfortunately made.
Like or hate PCA he was the top OF prospect in a farm system barren of OF prospects, so he was more valuable to the Mets even if he was 2-3 years away than some other teams.
You don't trade him for Baez and let Baez walk two months later, it's malpractice.
First you miscalculate your team's chances at the post-season knowing your ace was unlikely to pitch again this year, and then second you waste a top 5 prospect on a rental.
firable IMO.
So to save face Baez will be re-signed.
smart people don't make future decisions based on sunk costs.
if the person they hire to be POBO or GM makes a decision based on a sunk cost they are the wrong hire. Full stop. Same if the decision gets made before they make that new hire.
there are reasons for the new POBO/GM to consider resigning Baez like him being a gold glove 2b. And him being one of the best power hitters in baseball. And him being a generally electric player who can impact games in all ways. Because they traded PCA for him is not one of those reasons.
ok
I agree with both of you guys...
Objective/Smart people would not consider PCA in the Baez decision..
But Sandy and the Mets FO might...
GM from the TB system (Heck or Bendix?)
get a big picture guy from a big market and a development person with a track record for getting the most out of their resources - both with track records in building consistently strong scouting departments.
Byrnes seemingly has nowhere to go with Friedman above him and if they want to keep Gomes that gives them room for him to ascend. I assume he'd get to hire the GM spot so it might not be realistic that he'd choose someone from Tampa as opposed to someone he's got a prior relationship with and thinks highly of.
agreed - if you hire a POBO they hire their GM.
All else equal I'd rather get the guy who worked with Friedman in LA when he had money to spend than the guy who worked with him in Tampa when he didn't.
but obviously all else is not likely equal and you have to pick the most impressive candidate, whoever that is.
You want the POBO, GM, ASG, scouting director etc all on the same page, not "I've never worked with X, but he's the GM I was given", the Mets model, whatever that ends up being should be that of one voice, one path, a well oiled machine, with Mr. X and Steve Cohen being the driving force.
that's what I said above - and why it might be something that makes sense. If either is ever going to move up Byrnes has to go, which opens up the spot for Gomes.
100% agree that if you give someone the POBO title they pick the GM.
Thad Levine also interviewed (which surprised many) but he too turned it down.
It’s well-known that the Rays are a powerhouse when it comes to their front office, which is why several teams have started to target their executives. Chaim Bloom and James Click were hired this past offseason by the Red Sox and Astros, respectively, and it’s only a matter of time before Peter Bendix follows in their footsteps. Now that those two executives have departed the organization, Bendix is essentially general manager Erik Neander’s right-hand man, and despite being just 34-years-old, he’s already been in the organization for twelve years. As is the case with most top executives from this organization, he is a super bright mind and is very well-rounded, and, to be honest, how could you not want to hire someone from the Rays? They’ve been ahead of the curve, compared to other teams, for a long time, and based on the success stories from some of the lead executives that come from tree, they do a great job grooming their front-office members to lead their own baseball department. In other words, if you’re looking for the next up-and-coming superstar, Bendix is exactly that."
obviously we know a lot more about his vision for the team than any of the other names who haven't been hired/spoken publicly about the team but on paper he seems very strong compared to the others we are talking about. Byrnes is very impressive on paper too - which makes sense given he'd be interviewing for the real top job. I wonder if last year the Mets were just aiming higher than a first timer for the POBO job?
I really wonder what they do if they find themselves in a position where nobody they speak to seems as good as Porter.
Am I crazy that bringing him back seems not that crazy?
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
I really wonder what they do if they find themselves in a position where nobody they speak to seems as good as Porter.
Am I crazy that bringing him back seems not that crazy?
I'd be absolutely stunned if they brought back Porter. The firestorm would be immense and Cohen seems to be very sensitive for a guy who is as big as he is. Porter was known to (in his off time) drive down to random games or check out indy ball. He was obsessive. He was absolutely a loss. I wouldn't hate Scott returning but he'd have to be in a secondary role, I'm sure he's good at what he does but teams won't be rushing to interview him to be their next GM if the Mets dump him.
was what he did a literal career killer?
obviously if there was more that came out behind the scenes after the fact in the baseball world that didn't get printed or if there were any future concerns about his behavior it's a no go. But I haven't seen anything else come out other than that 2016 allegation that he owned up to.
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Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Eric,
I think you'd be wrong there. His ex-coach (who he is very close with) suggested he might turn down the Phillies job before he ever did... because of his daughters (Ed Molush)
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In comment 15424160 DanMetroMan said:
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Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Eric,
I think you'd be wrong there. His ex-coach (who he is very close with) suggested he might turn down the Phillies job before he ever did... because of his daughters (Ed Molush)
it's certainly possible but why take the interviews then? just in case it's an offer so good it cant be refused?
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Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Thad Levine also met with them regarding the job and NOBODY thought he was leaving and he didn't. Byrnes refused to even interview with the Mets last time around. He's from DC but he's out west most of his professional career. Rockies, Padres, Arizona, Dodgers and in California for the last 11.
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Byrnes reportedly turned down the Phillies job because he didn't want to move his two teenage daughters, now it's a year later but that may still be the case.
I'd call BS on that one. I think he went through multiple rounds of interviews taken knowing he had teenage daughters. I'd think it more likely he didn't like the situation. Or maybe they just wanted to give him a soft landing.
Didn't Beane just give the same reason?
Family is important.
If I was already rich I wouldn't subject my family to Philadelphia either...
and yes, Beane has turned down probably 100 interviews because of his family over the years. but he's always been completely transparent about that and he even turned down the offer too good to refuse from Henry.
I don't think Beane ever went through an interview process only to later pull out because of his family. That's exactly why he claimed to take himself out of consideration a few days ago. Why waste the time if you know you're not moving your family?
"On Friday morning, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reported that Minnesota Twins general manager Thad Levine is “a significant player” in the Phillies’ search for a new president of baseball operations. LaVelle E. Neal III, who covers the Twins for the Star Tribune, later confirmed his candidacy for the job. "
and then
"Since Levine arrived in Minnesota in 2016, the Twins have made the playoffs three times and won two division titles with a mix of homegrown talent and veteran free-agent acquisitions. They have yet to snap their playoff losing streak, which dates back to 2004. It appears Levine prefers to keep his family in the Minneapolis area and work under Twins president of baseball operations Derek Falvey to rid the organization of its postseason futility. "
2. they were offered the jobs but both turned it down because the situation was right for them but didn't want to say so.
#2 is the same allegation that was made re: Beane/Mets for the last couple days. only difference being Beane's track record of not engaging due to his family is long established - which imo is more credible since I don't think he's even taken an interview since turning down Henry.
the dombrowski hiring was out of left field enough that I could see it having been either bc the Phillies abruptly changed course thinking they didn't have the right guy or the right guys turned them down.
2. they were offered the jobs but both turned it down because the situation was right for them but didn't want to say so.
#2 is the same allegation that was made re: Beane/Mets for the last couple days. only difference being Beane's track record of not engaging due to his family is long established - which imo is more credible since I don't think he's even taken an interview since turning down Henry.
the dombrowski hiring was out of left field enough that I could see it having been either bc the Phillies abruptly changed course thinking they didn't have the right guy or the right guys turned them down.
#1 doesn't seem plausible. Teams want to look bad as they are rejected for jobs? You think the Mets would agree to look "bad" if Byrnes interviewed with them, they opt against him and he comes away stating they offered it but he said no? In Levine's case it defies reason. He guy is considered an absolute STUD. He and Falvey are 2 of the most highly regarded execs in the game and unlike Byrnes have zero "stink" of failure yet (fairly or not).
there's nothing to debate it's just speculation. its a little weird of anyone to interview for a job they intend to withdraw themselves from for a reason that was known ahead of time. that doesn't mean it doesn't happen just that there's usually something else beyond the surface - that's where the whole "so and so resigns to spend more time with family" meme comes from.
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no point even debating this topic, Byrnes may or may not be asked to interview, he may or may not be offered the job and he may or may not be willing to move his daughters.
there's nothing to debate it's just speculation. its a little weird of anyone to interview for a job they intend to withdraw themselves from for a reason that was known ahead of time. that doesn't mean it doesn't happen just that there's usually something else beyond the surface - that's where the whole "so and so resigns to spend more time with family" meme comes from.
If the Mets somehow landed Thad Levine baseball media would be going wild with praise with such a move. There is "no" chance the Phillies told him no and he framed it like he did. More likely, he didn't see the downside of listening.
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1. they didn't get the job and were afforded soft landings.
2. they were offered the jobs but both turned it down because the situation was right for them but didn't want to say so.
#2 is the same allegation that was made re: Beane/Mets for the last couple days. only difference being Beane's track record of not engaging due to his family is long established - which imo is more credible since I don't think he's even taken an interview since turning down Henry.
the dombrowski hiring was out of left field enough that I could see it having been either bc the Phillies abruptly changed course thinking they didn't have the right guy or the right guys turned them down.
#1 doesn't seem plausible. Teams want to look bad as they are rejected for jobs? You think the Mets would agree to look "bad" if Byrnes interviewed with them, they opt against him and he comes away stating they offered it but he said no? In Levine's case it defies reason. He guy is considered an absolute STUD. He and Falvey are 2 of the most highly regarded execs in the game and unlike Byrnes have zero "stink" of failure yet (fairly or not).
i agree. if i was choosing which was more plausible it would be door #2. I don't think anyone else was banging down dombrowski's doors and it was a weird hire from the moment it was announced. the mets hiring Melvin would be comparably weird - and im pretty sure I know what we'd all hypothesize right away. that we couldn't get anyone better to say yes.
and they hire a retread like Melvin while the others bow out due to family.
what would we think happened?
I should say, unrelated to working FOR the Mets. I have no clue what kind of business, sponsorship or even Willets Point (which Cohen owns 5%) discussions may have been had.
and they hire a retread like Melvin while the others bow out due to family.
what would we think happened?
In that scenario, yes, we'd assume the Mets job is an awful one that nobody wants. Even that scenario, to not hire a "desperate" guy looking for his first shot and going with Melvin... yeesh. They would be better off (optics wise) hiring 4th in command from the Padres and hyping them up as some big time get.
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pretend it's early December and the mets are known to interview Thad/Byrnes/etc, some for multiple rounds.
and they hire a retread like Melvin while the others bow out due to family.
what would we think happened?
In that scenario, yes, we'd assume the Mets job is an awful one that nobody wants. Even that scenario, to not hire a "desperate" guy looking for his first shot and going with Melvin... yeesh. They would be better off (optics wise) hiring 4th in command from the Padres and hyping them up as some big time get.
if that's how things played out I'd be on the phone with Porter and the PR team brainstorming anti cancel culture talking points so fast he wouldn't even have time to zip up.
Already probably behind the 8-ball.
Link - ( New Window )
Nice article.
Beyond the finance-style of looking at player value, one of the reasons you have to want someone from the TB well is summed up here:
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read and I think would be particularly interesting to PJ who has concerns about a small market guy suddenly being expected to "spend". Great piece Link - ( New Window )
Nice article.
Beyond the finance-style of looking at player value, one of the reasons you have to want someone from the TB well is summed up here:
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a key difference between the Rays and the Sox. One of the ways the Rays have been able to separate themselves is in development and implementation. The Sox and Rays can both see similar possibilities for improvement in players, with similar evaluation tools. But Tampa Bay is still probably better equipped to help players produce those changes quickly, a Sox source said.
I read this earlier and I liked it, still think trading Mookie Betts was the wrong move. The Dodgers already won a WS with Betts. Isn't that the goal?
And not sure I understand your point JB.
You can look at it that way if you want, but since 2004 the Red Sox have made it the ALCS 6 times and won 4 World Series titles (still alive in 2021 to possibly make it 5). All 4 WS titles and 5 of 6 ALCS appearances in Boston were without anyone from the Rays FO.
In that same time frame the Rays have made it to the ALCS twice and won zero World Series.
So how exactly are you defining success? solely by doing it with less?
Are you (or others) suggesting that when an executive leaves Tampa they bring that model with them to big market/big payroll cities? Are Bloom in BOS and Friedman in LA doing the same thing? Dodgers have exceeded the LT and been #1 in payroll for a few years (and have taken on bad contracts).
If I'm the Mets, the Dodgers or old Boston or the Yankees is how I'd hope things are run, not like Tampa or Oakland.
And not sure I understand your point JB.
I think the biggest allure to a Rays hire is introducing their processes for player development.
The Mets have had some good players come up out of the system, but when was the last time we called up a plus reliever? Rays are always around the top of the league in Relief Pitcher WAR. Developing better home-grown bullpen guys would allow us flex our financial muscles on the less fungible positions.
Brian Sabean interest - ( New Window )
Hard to find anyone that isn't somewhat painful to root for of the remaining teams but I'd be really happy to see Dusty win one.
@MLBNetwork Is there a better interview in baseball? - ( New Window )
50m
Mets search for a new GM is trying to go underground but -- after some regrouping post-Beane -- is ongoing. They're doing diligence on and in some cases almost certainly speaking to young execs around the league.
From 2 days ago:
2d
The Mets don’t need a president of baseball operations. They made a mistake by saying they were looking for one.
I guess not a huge surprise if true because that's how it went last year when they couldn't get necessary permissions. If you think about the 2nd tier "experienced" candidates out there like Melvin/Sabean, I'd probably rather not bring either of them in as POBO to hire a GM. Just don't see much of an upgrade vs. Sandy and possibly a downgrade adding in another layer. If there's no POBO i'd think the opportunity is more attractive to a top tier young GM who sees the upside of having room to grow (like Porter was on track to last year).
It doesn't sound definite so maybe there are candidates like Byrnes/Levine who could still get the POBO title.
I'd imagine we won't hear much until after the WS but would think they want to have someone locked in by then.
@mikemayer22
·
1m
I haven't heard yet that the Mets have interest in Brian Sabean, despite him clearly having interest in joining the Mets front office.
Negotiations have been taking place since last spring, and each side thinks the other has not made proposals that will lead toward an agreement replacing the five-year contract that expires at 11:59 p.m. EST on Dec. 1.
The luxury tax system that started with the 2003 season sunsets with the expiration of the labor contract, with the exception of completing accounting and payments for the 2021 tax year. Uncertainty over the 2022 season probably will cause high-spending clubs to delay reaching pricier player agreements.
Free agents can start signing with any team on the sixth day following the World Series, and this year’s group includes Carlos Correa, Corey Seager, Freddie Freeman, Trevor Story, Max Scherzer, Marcus Semien, Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Michael Conforto and Kevin Gausman.
@mikemayer22
·
3m
Sources: The Mets have talked to Giants GM Scott Harris about joining their front office.
As he's GM of the Giants, I find it hard to believe this would be for anything less than POBO.
@jackwramsey
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26s
Scott Harris’ main career work has come under two great decision makers: Theo Epstein and Farhan Zaidi. You’d hope his experience there would allow for him to be able to learn the position well. Not to mention, he’s attended Columbia, UCLA, and North Western.
@PSLToFlushing
If the #Mets are speaking to people like Scott Harris (#Giants GM), it is an indication to me at least that they are still intent on landing a President of Baseball Operations and then presumably a GM under that person.
It's of course possible Harris would pick somebody like Bendix as his GM but I find it unlikely. They haven't worked together (2 different leagues no less) and Harris likely would hire somebody with more experience (ex GM etc) than Bendix. Harris is 34, Bendix 36. It's possible of course but seems more like just taking 2 well regarded names and throwing them together. Matt Arnold and Bendix actually worked together in TB (for example).
Quote:
A Harris/Bendix type combo would be insane and would owe Sandy and Cohen a big time apology.
It's of course possible Harris would pick somebody like Bendix as his GM but I find it unlikely. They haven't worked together (2 different leagues no less) and Harris likely would hire somebody with more experience (ex GM etc) than Bendix. Harris is 34, Bendix 36. It's possible of course but seems more like just taking 2 well regarded names and throwing them together. Matt Arnold and Bendix actually worked together in TB (for example).
Agreed and that's also why I mentioned type there. Someone up and coming like Bendix who Harris has worked with already possibly.
it wouldn't have made much difference last year if they called Porter POBO and Scott GM and things were probably heading in that direction sooner rather than later if the team had a more successful season.
just get the person they feel best about. if that is Bendix or someone else who just so happens to not have enough experience to be POBO then hire him as GM with full autonomy to do all the stuff he knows how to do and let Sandy keep some of the other stuff off his plate until he's ready.
Conforto
Stroman
(he'd previously done Baez and came to 5 years $125m)
imo all 3 would be fair contracts and I'd probably make more of a case the Mets should do them than not. but it obviously depends on their new vision, new leadership, and first hand experiences with all 3. Ideally they'd maybe even get lucky with 1 of them (Conforto?) willing to take a 1 year deal to rebuild value to try to get a bigger deal next year? Ozuna did that once before signing his longer term deal.
@jaseidler
the Cohen era so far:
- numerous sexual harassment issues
- tried very hard to sign Bauer
- org culture is a flaming dumpster
- failed to sign first-round pick w/major pool and FA ramifications
- collapsed and missed playoffs by a mile
- whiffed for a year straight on top execs
Let's take these 1 at a time.
1. Was there any sexual harassment incident that doesn't predate Cohen actually running the team as the majority owner? Porter's incident was in 2016 and he was fired within like 24 hours of it becoming public.
2. Yes they did. As did the reining WS champs and league poster children LAD. And he played for 3 other teams before that. Yes he's a toxic jerk and in hindsight they dodged a bullet but he hadn't been accused of anything criminal. I'm glad he didn't end up a NYM but I'm also glad our owner is willing to invest to try to make the team better. 1 more top of the rotation pitcher was the difference in the season.
3. 1 of 2 semi-sentient points.
4. owners shouldn't have any role in draft selection beyond writing the checks.
5. they had the 2nd highest payroll in baseball and were about 10 games over .500 for the first 4 months of the season. the team didn't collapse because ownership refused to invest.
6. ok, they whiffed on Theo/Beane and got denied on Stearns again. is the preference to not go for top targets and immediately settle for lesser candidates? Maybe we should see who they end up with before declaring that they completely whiffed? Porter wasn't considered a whiff last year.
In fact my memory is that Seidler was pretty positive on the Porter hire however I had a hard time fact checking myself because he appears to have deleted all his comments referencing Porter last year from when he was hired. I guess being positive about someone Cohen hired and turned out to do some prior sexual harassin wouldn't fit either of his narratives?
Conforto
Quote:
Four years at that $17.5 million salary would mean a $70 million deal for Conforto — more in line with what Ozuna received last winter. Yes, it’s a big step back from what I theorized he could get in the spring. It would still also be enough to justify rejecting the qualifying offer and testing the open market.
Stroman
Quote:
All of this is a long way of saying that this range — a four-year deal around $18 million to $20 million per season — seems like it could be the sweet spot for Stroman. None of these pitchers are perfect analogues, but they collectively share enough of Stroman’s qualities to give us an idea of how the market values them. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see Stroman’s market grow above that, too, if multiple teams place extra emphasis on his durability.
(he'd previously done Baez and came to 5 years $125m)
imo all 3 would be fair contracts and I'd probably make more of a case the Mets should do them than not. but it obviously depends on their new vision, new leadership, and first hand experiences with all 3. Ideally they'd maybe even get lucky with 1 of them (Conforto?) willing to take a 1 year deal to rebuild value to try to get a bigger deal next year? Ozuna did that once before signing his longer term deal.
Seems low on Stroman TBH. 4 years isn't "great" for any pitcher but the salary is very low risk (as low risk as any SP can be). I've seen most people projecting Stroman to get roughly what Wheeler got. 5 for 120ish. That looks more realistic to me. Generally speaking, 1 extra year than you'd wanna go is what gets these done. No clue on Baez, his value/market seems all over the place. Reportedly asked for 200, I could see him getting years over AAV or vice versa and neither would surprise me.
turned down the job or an interview?
Quote:
Harris turns down the Mets per Mayer
turned down the job or an interview?
Unclear if a job was actually offered. They spoke and he said he wasn't interested
7m
Update: Giants GM Scott Harris has told the Mets he’s not joining their organization.
He talked to the Mets about their front office opening last week.
I read that like he interviewed last week then took himself out? Weird phrasing with the "told the mets he's not joining their organization" because that kind of implies he was offered a role.
Arnold/Bendix combo is the best case scenario to me.
Arnold/Bendix combo is the best case scenario to me.
I have 0 interest in Sabean or Melvin or any retread POBO. I'd rather Sandy and a good young GM than a retreat POBO. I'd feel a lot more confident the guy trying to get himself out of the job is more willing to keep his ego out of things than the guys constantly running to reporters to get themselves into consideration and stay relevant.
looks like he was born in redwood city and went to ucla. maybe he likes being back in CA?
Impressive how meteoric his rise to GM has been. He graduated in 2009 and had a coordinator title for 2 years (presumably entry level). Theo grabbed him and 7 years later he's a GM.
As a fan of an organization completely turned around by Lou Lamoriello over the last 3 years I'm the opposite of ageist. I more just don't see any upside over what's already in the building with Sandy. Those guys couldn't rebuild the front offices of their old teams as they were transitioning out.
I’m ranting here but I’d like to see Cohen get more aggressive here. No one should be able to compete with our resources, so I hope he’s willing to go all-in here.
The fucking NY sports media and how things are covered here is our biggest obstacle.
I truly believe quality people just don't want the hassle and will take less to avoid it.
Does this make sense to anyone else?
The fucking NY sports media and how things are covered here is our biggest obstacle.
I truly believe quality people just don't want the hassle and will take less to avoid it.
Does this make sense to anyone else?
I think there's some reality to this but it's beyond just the media. It's that any of the guys in discussion will instantly go from an almost unknown person to being "famous" over night.
whoever gets hired is going to be pushed into the spotlight and there can be good and bad that come along with that. if they fail it won't be fun.
or they can stick with their current comfortable situations and just keep doing their thing behind the scenes and still get paid very well, not have to move their families, etc.
at the end of the day money talks and there's no excuse to not get someone good. but I do think in terms of personality type it's more likely to be an appealing job to someone with charisma like Porter last year. he was good with the media. BVW was great with the media too he just lacked...just about every other relevant skill. But I don't think a lot of these guys who have been behind the scenes grinding statcast numbers and launch angles are particularly enthused about becoming celebrities overnight and having to dedicate such a big chunk of their job to dealing with the media and PR. that's where Sandy needs to be willing to step up and shelter the right candidate if that's the area they are worried about.
@timbhealey
·
12s
Jeremy Hefner is returning as pitching coach for 2022, the Mets announced.
Really has*
Quote:
In comment 15422512 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.
Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?
That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.
Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
1m
The Mets' top candidate for president of baseball operations at the moment appears to be Brewers general manager Matt Arnold. There has been contact, and I'm hearing the Mets may have made him an offer.
Link - ( New Window )
Senior Vice President and General Manager
Matt Arnold, 42, enters his sixth season with the Brewers and third as senior vice president. He was named the 10th general manager in franchise history on November 19, 2020. He originally joined the organization as vice president and assistant general manager on October 14, 2015.
Arnold assists President of Baseball Operations David Stearns with day-to-day baseball processes and provides functional oversight of all departments within baseball operations. His areas of focus include Major League operations, roster construction, financial planning, staffing and personnel development, contract negotiations and player personnel decisions. He also helps supervise player development, medical operations, integrative sports performance, foreign and domestic scouting and analytics.
Prior to joining the Brewers, Arnold spent nine seasons with the Tampa Bay Rays, assisting then Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations Andrew Friedman and President of Baseball Operations Matt Silverman with player acquisitions, contract negotiations and player evaluations at all levels. His responsibilities also included strategic planning, foreign and domestic special assignments and coordinating advance scouting for the postseason. Additionally, he worked to develop the process of integrating science, biomechanics and human movement analysis within all levels of baseball operations.
Arnold transitioned from the Cincinnati Reds front office to Tampa Bay following the 2006 season as a professional scout. He was promoted to director of professional scouting in November 2009 and to director of player personnel in June 2015. During his time in Tampa Bay, the team won over 90 games in five of six seasons from 2008 and 2013 and qualified for the postseason four times (2008, 2010, 2011 and 2013), including the franchise's first World Series appearance in 2008.
Arnold, who has 20 seasons of professional baseball experience, has also served roles with the Los Angeles Dodgers (2000), Texas Rangers (2002) and Cincinnati Reds (2003-06). In Cincinnati, Arnold served as assistant director of professional scouting with his duties including player analysis, financial planning and arbitration, and he was also involved in advance, amateur and professional scouting.
Originally from California, Arnold graduated from the University of California-Santa Barbara with a bachelor's degree in economics in 2001. He merited academic honors, including Sport Management Student of the Year as a junior.
Nice read.
Carlos Rodriguez
VICE PRESIDENT, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AND INTERNATIONAL SCOUTING
Carlos Rodriguez enters his 11th season with the Rays and his second as vice president of player development and international scouting. In this role, Rodriguez reports to Erik Neander and assists in all areas of baseball operations, while overseeing the club’s player development system, baseball performance science, international scouting and academy operations. From 2015 through 2019, Rodriguez served as director of international scouting, following three years as director of Latin American scouting (2012-14). During this stretch, he played a key role in scouting and signing José Alvarado, Vidal Bruján, Diego Castillo, Yonny Chirinos, Wander Franco, Moisés Gómez, Ronaldo Hernández and Jesús Sánchez, among others. Rodriguez joined the Rays in the fall of 2010 as a professional and international scout after four seasons with the Blue Jays as an area scout. In 2009, he signed Yan Gomes from Barry University, the first Brazilian-born player to reach the major leagues. Rodriguez also spent a season as an intern for the Brewers. A native of Puerto Rico, Rodriguez attended the University of North Florida where he played and served as an assistant coach. He graduated in 2004 with a degree in business, double majoring in international business and economics. He and his wife, Omayra, reside in Tampa with their daughter, Eva Marie.
If this is who they hire huge mea culpa from me.
Carlos Rodriguez
VICE PRESIDENT, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AND INTERNATIONAL SCOUTING
Carlos Rodriguez enters his 11th season with the Rays and his second as vice president of player development and international scouting. In this role, Rodriguez reports to Erik Neander and assists in all areas of baseball operations, while overseeing the club’s player development system, baseball performance science, international scouting and academy operations. From 2015 through 2019, Rodriguez served as director of international scouting, following three years as director of Latin American scouting (2012-14). During this stretch, he played a key role in scouting and signing José Alvarado, Vidal Bruján, Diego Castillo, Yonny Chirinos, Wander Franco, Moisés Gómez, Ronaldo Hernández and Jesús Sánchez, among others. Rodriguez joined the Rays in the fall of 2010 as a professional and international scout after four seasons with the Blue Jays as an area scout. In 2009, he signed Yan Gomes from Barry University, the first Brazilian-born player to reach the major leagues. Rodriguez also spent a season as an intern for the Brewers. A native of Puerto Rico, Rodriguez attended the University of North Florida where he played and served as an assistant coach. He graduated in 2004 with a degree in business, double majoring in international business and economics. He and his wife, Omayra, reside in Tampa with their daughter, Eva Marie.
"There is some thought if Arnold takes the Mets job he will look to hire somebody working in the Rays’ front office as the general manager to work with him." -Puma
(With Peter Bendix reportedly not interested (though does that change post-Arnold?) Carlos Rodriguez remains an interesting name
Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
1m
The Mets' top candidate for president of baseball operations at the moment appears to be Brewers general manager Matt Arnold. There has been contact, and I'm hearing the Mets may have made him an offer.
if this ends up being the hire I agree it's unlikely Sandy had any sort of meaningful direct relationship.
however if you think it's a good hire, doesn't it show that Sandy ran a good search and made a good choice (with the search ultimately unfolding a lot like last year)? I'd be surprised if Cohen knows Arnold from a hole in the wall.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Quote:
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
unless i'm forgetting something there was no Sandy connection to Porter (or Scott) either.
Sandy has never been the right guy for Cohen to bring back for just 1 reason. He has been a successful executive in MLB for 3 decades, including here, for a variety of reasons. Relationships with some of the bigger fish was one of those reasons but just like last year when the search pivoted to younger candidates there were still positives to his presence even if he didn't have a direction prior relationship.
Quote:
In comment 15430199 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
Who do you think is running the search if not him? Scott is on leave. Levin and Tanous are supposedly candidates. Who do you think is the point person formulating the list and presenting it to Cohen? The head of HR?
Who do you think made the decision on Rojas?
whoever the new hire is, who do you think is going to be the person to intro him and answer questions about why they chose him to the media?
I'd imagine it will be the same person who has been fielding questions on the topic for the last month and giving public comments on behalf of the franchise?
"Well, so the practical answer to that question is that a new person coming in isn’t going to want to have to deal with all those type of infrastructure issues immediately," Alderson said. "They’re going to be happy to have a functioning group of capable people who will be able to move the team during those weeks and months that they become more familiar with the operation, more familiar with the individual abilities of the front-office employees or other within the organization."
During a different answer, Alderson said "anybody's tenure with the Mets will be subject to the decision of a new head of baseball operations." It sounds as if Alderson would like to have some structure in place for the big hire, even on an interim basis. Then the new hire can evaluate the situation and make changes if necessary.
Alderson never signed on to lead baseball operations, so he said he'll be happy to turn it over to the upcoming hire. After that person takes over, Alderson said he'll be "present and interested in the baseball side, but my involvement will depend on how much this new head of baseball operations wants from me."
this is truly one of the more bizarre things to question.
Key takeaways as Sandy Alderson talks Mets president search, Luis Rojas' future and more - ( New Window )
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Theo told all teams he wasn't interested in speaking about MLB jobs last year, Beane was never an "option" he was working on that SPAC that fell apart but he was either OUT of baseball or remaining with Oakland.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
The general sentiment was yes. I believe the Mets said he had been a candidate for GM along with Porter, and then based on their relationship Porter was able to convince him to come over. It seemed like the plan was to relatively quickly promote Porter to PBO and Scott to GM assuming things were going well...which turned out to be a very bad assumption very quickly.
Quote:
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
One analytics hire for a team that had 3 (vs 20ish for the Yankees) given all of the talk isn’t exactly impressive. Also who exactly were they going to hire internally as their GM if they didn’t hire a Porter? They didn’t even have reasonable candidates. Who said anything about open to hiring them? They talked up following the Dodgers model but they haven’t really done much (yet) to follow this. Have you read/heard about an influx of scouting hires? Or analytics hires? These presumably were things that could have been done with or without Porter.
when porter left and Scott had to step into a bigger job I think that understandably had to get pushed to a back burner.
when porter left and Scott had to step into a bigger job I think that understandably had to get pushed to a back burner.
Scott’s forte was analytics. Whether he was given the ability to make these hires and/or was unable to do so because of Porter being fired I have no clue. Seems like only something part of the FO would be able to answer
“The reason we’re where we are there,” the official said, “is because of what they’ve done up there,” pointing to the office that houses the club’s department of analytics.
Over the previous four years, Scott had remade that department, turning an increased investment from ownership, increased autonomy from the front office and increased interest from the dugout into a baseball behemoth. Given the chance to build his own team of analysts as the vice president of research and development under Dave Dombrowski in 2015, Scott embraced every part of the challenge.
“That was really the first time I felt like I was put in a leadership position,” Scott said. “I loved it. I thought that managing people would be a strength of mine, and then I actually had a chance to show it.”
I can't find the exact quotes but from the interviews when both were hired I remember them saying the intent with Porter/Scott was that Scott was going to get to rebuild the analytics wing just like he did in Boston while Porter ran the overall front office. Remember Scott's background was Math/Science/Statistics.
Zack Scott took over the Mets’ front office in a time of turmoil. Who is he as a baseball executive? - ( New Window )