They can only come up with big names like Theo and Beane.
They should be trying to find the next Theo, the next Beane. Look at SF Giants plucked Zaide from the Dodgers organization. Or Chaim Bloom with the Red Sox.
Cohen had to treat this like a business and not his little toy. Hire a search committee composed of knowledgeable outsiders. Instead he has Sandy thumbing through his contacts.
A report that the #Mets have put former #Pirates 1b Dorian Boyland on growing short list led to a pleasant conversation with Boyland who told me no contact with the NYM, no interest in the job. He said he is happy to run his car dealerships.
The dearth of front office talent out there is kind of baffling..
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
It's not a dearth. It's just not a known name out there for a fan to know. But the Mets should be able to talk within the league and find that guy.
Compared to the talent trying to become CEOs and CFOs of Fortune 500 companies...trying to be partners at top consulting firms...trying to run investment banks...that's what I'm talking about...
Some of the dudes being "discussed" shouldnt even be in the conversation..
Like I said in the other thread..my theory is it's most likely a function of the boom or bust nature of the career path. There aren't that many jobs to make the $$ compared to the aforementioned paths. I'd bet there are a bunch of people on this board who are executives and talented whose dream job it would have been, but we all chose the safer routes.
On that other thread I brought this up someone also mentioned the nepotism aspect which is also real..
if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason. finding leaders and executives who know how to build successful organizations is not the same thing as successful and well compensated specialists (whether that's a baseball scout or a lawyer/banker).
that doesn't absolve Cohen at all. this year he needs to deliver a real strong management team who can provide a 5-10 year vision for the organization. Anything worse than Porter is a disaster. in fact if things get bad enough and they thought Porter was truly the goods in the limited time with him last year I'd think about bringing him back. Yes it will be bad PR hit at the beginning but that's better than 5 years of bad PR from losing if they blow this hire. what he did was clearly inappropriate and it was absolutely fair to move on from him in light of new information when it happened. I don't think what he did deserves permanent banishment however. if you go through this process and still feel like he's the best guy for the job, do you just ignore that?
I obviously don't expect that to happen and would imagine like last year they will ultimately hire a non-big name from a winning org who is well regarded (like a Heck or Byrnes or Gomes). process complaints are clickbait until we see what the process produces. I don't care if cohen has all the candidates playing boar on the floor if it gets the right guy. im not surprised Beane passed but I am a little surprised Stearns doesn't seem willing to force the issue with Milwaukee. even if he doesn't want to come here at least force the issue and get a big extension. maneuvering leverage is a core skill of the job right?
a succession plan in the corporate world to sports.
The name Fortune 500 comes from the fact there are 500 companies on that list, but you are obviously not beholden to getting successors from those 500 companies (which is likely a pool of thousands depending on what role you are trying to fill). Expand to the global 2000 and then even beyond that the pool of potential extends well beyond (laughably beyond) what you would expect for the 30 MLB teams.
The only mistake the Mets made IMO, was publishing/leaking the names of unrealistic candidates because from an optics standpoint it looks bad to get publicly rejected even if the likelihood wasn't high to begin with for any of the candidates.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
if the giants had an opening right now there would be articles up within minutes saying they should try to get saban and that if they don't they are unserious.
trying for the best candidates is an obviously correct decision. managing a daily news cycle everyone will forget the second they hire someone is a very distant concern to trying to get the right person in the first place.
was reading about the Brewers search that landed them Stearns because that over the top Mets shill Goodfundiesbrian was suggesting Doug Melvin was responsible for landing Stearns so Melvin would be a good hire... anyway... he was in no way involved but their process was fascinating. They hired a firm called Korn Ferry that helped him put together a list of 44 names, he then whittled down that list based on 40 criteria and how he weighed them, finally he sat down with one rep from Korn Ferry and 2 members of his own FO to come up with Stearns.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
was told yesterday the idea of going with "just" a GM and not a POBO is seen as very iffy. The feeling is a top young candidate is not going to want to come here to be GM under Sandy (again) while his assistant's have already been handpicked (including Sandy's own son). It's expected a "top" young name like Gomes would pass on such a setup even if the Dodgers allowed him to leave (it's been rumored he might be promoted to GM to stop this regardless).
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
was reading about the Brewers search that landed them Stearns because that over the top Mets shill Goodfundiesbrian was suggesting Doug Melvin was responsible for landing Stearns so Melvin would be a good hire... anyway... he was in no way involved but their process was fascinating. They hired a firm called Korn Ferry that helped him put together a list of 44 names, he then whittled down that list based on 40 criteria and how he weighed them, finally he sat down with one rep from Korn Ferry and 2 members of his own FO to come up with Stearns.
Korn Ferry is huge firm and I'd be shocked if Cohen hasn't used them countless times as well as probably all of their top competitors. I'd be shocked if he doesn't have personal relationships with the CEOs of most of them.
This search is 100% on Cohen. He has every resource necessary to find someone good and more experience/time to operate than last year. There are no excuses for not finding a strong candidate. Unless his heart was set on leading his own thing, if there was any price to get Theo on board he should have done that.
the Brewers mode, the search was done by the owner, the COO, somebody from the league's ownership advisory board and Korn Ferry (a firm they hired). There was no need for a "Sandy Alderson" for the owner to find a top young name. In fact, Melvin (who did stay on as a special assistant) was not involved in the process at all, nor did he take meetings with candidates. No reason Cohen couldn't/shouldn't follow this model.
don't personally believe the Doug Melvin or Dorian Boyland stuff (Boyland in particular would be a truly absurd hire, to the point it's unbelievable, he has less credentials than Brodie did...)
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
Having a wealth of experience with probably almost every executive in baseball doesn't mean he can make someone make any decision. I also said Beane seemed the biggest long shot of the top 3 and had Milwaukee not blocked again they would have had conversations with the other 2.
The results of this search are on Cohen. Working for him is the entire sales pitch and he writes the check.
and yes I still see zero downside to Sandy's involvement. With him they can still utilize whatever other resources they want to run the search (be it a consulting firm, MLB, whoever) and it's been continually made clear that it's understood in the industry he has no interest in being involved in the baseball day to day. the choice with sandy is the search running with him or without. If you choose without who is the preferred person for Cohen to hire to run it? call theo back?
think Sandy and his son being part of the front office is ideal? and if they go the "GM only" route, who is the GM's boss? Again, it would be Sandy, he's suddenly going to be both the boss and hands off?
aren't surprised Beane refused to even speak to Cohen? I am. The idea was Sandy was such an enticement for Beane. To not even agree to speak to Cohen? I think most found that to be a surprise.
have to wonder how many more names the Mets are going to ask permission to speak to when it comes to guys who could be blocked or have turned down jobs before. If Byrnes says no (turned down the Phillies) and Levine says no (also turned down the Phillies) at what point does it become actually embarrassing to Cohen personally? Byrnes for example reportedly prefers the west coast. Nothing you can do about that but if Cohen is "O-7" with 2 off-seasons and lands on a Michael Hill etc... that's not a good look.
what do you think consulting firms do in specialized searches
to have enough understanding of the subject matter they are hiring for?
in my experience they contract with people who have the relevant experience in those fields (like Sandy) and then package that up into whatever their secret sauce process is.
at the end of the day any search is a competent as the people involved in the decision. owners almost never have that competence themselves so they have lean on someone else.
who would you prefer that person to be? naming a consultancy is a straw-man. it's window dressing a professional process without any proven track record of improving odds of success hiring talent for pro sports. id personally take a successful and respected industry veteran over a consultancy. especially one with a unique familiarity of the organization.
you think most teams need previous 70+ year old heads of team to be a part of said search? How about given their (Sandy's) hiring track record? No consideration there? How have other teams been able to handle this without a "Sandy"? Do you think in an ideal world a Byrnes has a Sandy "above" him and Sandy's son as an assistant GM? Regardless of Bryn Alderson's merits or Ian Levin's merit's, in an ideal world does that seem like that's common? Doug Melvin promotes his son to assistant GM, stays on as team president, hires somebody under him to work with his son?
put it this way, how many of the best teams in baseball are run by "very young" people nowadays?
Here are the ages of the heads of the "best' teams this year
Alex Anthopoulos-44
Andrew Friedman-44
Chaim Bloom-38
James Click- 43
Rick Hahn 50
Brian Cashman is the elder statesman of the group at 54 years old
It's a very young mans game (Melvin just noted that), why is Sandy Alderson some sort of asset in identifying these types? He was an advisor with the A's? So Billy Owens might be a guy he has insight into. Otherwise how often is he even interacting with the Brandon Gomes (4th in command) types in LAD? My guess is almost never.
"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
again dan pick who you would want running any search
and im not just saying out of mets people. you are now owner of an expansion team, who are you picking to run your search?
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
RE: again dan pick who you would want running any search
and im not just saying out of mets people. you are now owner of an expansion team, who are you picking to run your search?
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
John Ricco has been with the Mets since 2005, Ian Levin 2005, you don't think those 2, and Tommy Tanous (2010, running the draft since 2012, worked in Toronto and Texas), Marc Tramuta (also 2010, also Toronto) + Omar Minaya (back working with the team, advocated the Mets hiring Stearns in the first place) a consulting firm would be enough to head a search? I guess strongly agree to disagree.
is probably getting tedious for people to read but allow me to ask this final question.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
You'd have a situation where you got no say on the manager and have Sandy and his son looking over your shoulder the whole time. No thanks.
I assume you mean the POBO or GM job? Because I'm sure plenty of guys will take any managerial job they are offered. I know Rojas didn't work out but quite frankly, it feels like manager can be a relatively late hire and still be fine.
RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
Link - ( New Window )
Good graphic... but our director of baseball analytics predicts Oscar winners... do theirs!?
RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Quote:
It really was that quick and bold. Stu Sternberg already had complete confidence in his former Goldman Sachs colleague Matt Silverman and, one meal later, had been charmed by Andrew Friedman’s wit and smarts. No one in Tampa Bay knew it at the time but these three men, along with another Silverman friend Brian Auld, would take the Devil Rays from ridicule to the World Series in a handful of seasons.
In the months before the meeting at the diner, Friedman had sent letters to all 30 teams looking for a job. When he finally got an interview with the Indians for an internship, he finished second.
A little more than a year later, at 28, he was the head of baseball operations in Tampa Bay.
There's a market inefficiency there that Cohen can take advantage of. He can throw money at building a large analytics department filled with smart candidates - and NYC has a pull for that type of candidate. Link - ( New Window )
RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case.
I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
If I'm reading the FO piece from @AnthonyDiComo correctly, unlike the NFL @MLB teams are not obligated by rule to allow FO members to interview for jobs deemed promotions, and rather it's a courtesy usually observed #Mets
RE: RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Pat Ragazzo
@ragazzoreport
·
51s
For what It's worth, Carlos Beltran declined to discuss the Mets' managerial vacancy with me upon request
This decision is obviously for the POBO to make, but Beltran's current interest in managing again is currently unknown. He has kept a low profile since the Mets fired him
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case.
I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
For a very long time (basically until this decade) sports executives were basically among a very select few who were on a merry go round. In the last couple decades there have been a lot of outside the box with hires. younger, non traditional backgrounds. Those people (like Stearns and Theo and Depo and others) had been working their way up to those positions since the 90's and there are younger versions of them out there right now waiting to be hired.
the challenge as is ever the case is choosing who the right ones are and who they aren't.
the expanding talent pool is a very good thing that has made the game smarter overall and undeniably opened the door to a larger talent pool - but i dont think that has really changed the odds of successful hires for leadership positions in any sport. For every Sean McVay there have been 10 Jim Zorn/eric managini/chip kellys. sports are zero sum, immediate gratification, public beheadings, businesses mostly are not. Out of 32 GMs and coaches only a very small handful are successful most years.
BVW was an outside the box hire, and a very successful executive adjacent to being in an MLB FO. And his trade was one 99% of the met fans on this board knew was a disaster day 1.
it seems like there's always impulse to say "how hard can it be to find a smart talented GM" but just looking at the landscape of all pro sports it's not easy. or else more organizations would do it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
thing about the Cano trade was "everybody" hated it when it happened and initially the report was the Mets were getting significantly more money from Seattle in the deal, so it went from bad to worse while the % of people who liked the deal had to be less than 25% (and that's with a HOF caliber 2b and a top closer) being part of the deal aka "name" players. 100% not looking to rehash the trade, I just remember thinking "damn, Seattle is giving up a lot of money to move him" but nope, not really lol
but I still maintain that it's not easy because of the small talent pool.. not that it's just hard to select the talent..
Want to take BVW as an example? Baseball player who went to Stanford on scholarship. Was he smart enough to go to Stanford without baseball? Who knows?
Let's give him the benefit of doubt and say he IS really smart and talented. He then had to decide to turn down guaranteed 6 figure jobs to take an entry level position with the Bulls and then a sports agency.. something that very few people in his spot would do because the path is so long and arduous and there are only a handful of gigs on that career path that result in wealth...
Or... let's say that he isn't really that smart.. that his name is "Brodie" and he has a Stanford degree, looks good in a suit, and he's just really personable... OR maybe he knew someone, like Sandy Alderson's son does...
I still think the talent pool they are picking from is probably more of the 2nd scenario than the first.. and BVW might be the perfect example of it.
"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
Quote:
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
Quote:
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
Uh, I hate to break it to you but Andy Martino is well known to be a company/team shill. This idea he's some newsbreaker is ridiculous. He was the one who kept insisting Beane was a very real option and now is claiming they may pounce quickly on Baez... who pray tell would be making that decision if not Sandy? Sandy flat out said he will have a "seat at the table". Who else has seats? The assistant GM's are... Bryn ALDERSON (his son) Ian Levin (who has worked with Sandy for 9 years) and John Ricco. You don't see anything strange about that?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: if the world was overflowing with great executive talent (any field)
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.
all due respect but you've had a mega-pivot here. You insisted Sandy would be this voice that would get BIG people interested in Cohen. That has not happened and likely won't (what "big" names remain? Don't give me Josh Byrnes as some huge get if that were to happen, whether it were to work out or not, you don't need Sandy Alderson to land somebody of that ilk), Brandon Gomes? 4th in command with the Dodgers. You flat out admitted if they struck out on the big names it would be a disappointment and that Sandy would help secure that.. he couldn't even get Cohen a MEETING with Beane. You're pivoting and that's fine but Sandy being here with a "seat" with his son also having a "seat" and Ricco/Levin also having "seats" absolutely seems strange for somebody coming in. How could it not?
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
They should be trying to find the next Theo, the next Beane. Look at SF Giants plucked Zaide from the Dodgers organization. Or Chaim Bloom with the Red Sox.
Cohen had to treat this like a business and not his little toy. Hire a search committee composed of knowledgeable outsiders. Instead he has Sandy thumbing through his contacts.
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
It's not a dearth. It's just not a known name out there for a fan to know. But the Mets should be able to talk within the league and find that guy.
Quote:
The dearth of front office talent out there is kind of baffling..
I mean to even be considering Bob Melvin... comical
There should be a bunch Chaim Bloom's out there to choose from! I don't get it.
It's not a dearth. It's just not a known name out there for a fan to know. But the Mets should be able to talk within the league and find that guy.
Compared to the talent trying to become CEOs and CFOs of Fortune 500 companies...trying to be partners at top consulting firms...trying to run investment banks...that's what I'm talking about...
Some of the dudes being "discussed" shouldnt even be in the conversation..
Like I said in the other thread..my theory is it's most likely a function of the boom or bust nature of the career path. There aren't that many jobs to make the $$ compared to the aforementioned paths. I'd bet there are a bunch of people on this board who are executives and talented whose dream job it would have been, but we all chose the safer routes.
On that other thread I brought this up someone also mentioned the nepotism aspect which is also real..
that doesn't absolve Cohen at all. this year he needs to deliver a real strong management team who can provide a 5-10 year vision for the organization. Anything worse than Porter is a disaster. in fact if things get bad enough and they thought Porter was truly the goods in the limited time with him last year I'd think about bringing him back. Yes it will be bad PR hit at the beginning but that's better than 5 years of bad PR from losing if they blow this hire. what he did was clearly inappropriate and it was absolutely fair to move on from him in light of new information when it happened. I don't think what he did deserves permanent banishment however. if you go through this process and still feel like he's the best guy for the job, do you just ignore that?
I obviously don't expect that to happen and would imagine like last year they will ultimately hire a non-big name from a winning org who is well regarded (like a Heck or Byrnes or Gomes). process complaints are clickbait until we see what the process produces. I don't care if cohen has all the candidates playing boar on the floor if it gets the right guy. im not surprised Beane passed but I am a little surprised Stearns doesn't seem willing to force the issue with Milwaukee. even if he doesn't want to come here at least force the issue and get a big extension. maneuvering leverage is a core skill of the job right?
The name Fortune 500 comes from the fact there are 500 companies on that list, but you are obviously not beholden to getting successors from those 500 companies (which is likely a pool of thousands depending on what role you are trying to fill). Expand to the global 2000 and then even beyond that the pool of potential extends well beyond (laughably beyond) what you would expect for the 30 MLB teams.
The only mistake the Mets made IMO, was publishing/leaking the names of unrealistic candidates because from an optics standpoint it looks bad to get publicly rejected even if the likelihood wasn't high to begin with for any of the candidates.
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
trying for the best candidates is an obviously correct decision. managing a daily news cycle everyone will forget the second they hire someone is a very distant concern to trying to get the right person in the first place.
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
Quote:
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
6m
I don’t get this angle the #Mets are whiffing in their search for a team president. If other orgs aren’t letting their execs interview, its not a match, or someone doesn’t want to uproot from where he/she is, how is that bad?
This wasn't even been possible over a year ago.
Michael Baron
@michaelgbaron
·
5m
Is it disappointing the big names won’t be the #Mets team president? Sure. Is it bad? No. There are other people, other rising stars, other ways to fill out the role. Can’t be so singularly focused on three people not fitting into the role for whatever reason that is.
it's mostly clickbait and empty calorie whining on twitter (imo). there's nothing else to write about at the moment so this is what we get from the arm chair experts who think it's easy to find exceptional talent. it wouldn't be as pathetic if the exact same thing didn't happen 12 months ago to an ultimate conclusion that was then by and large praised (porter).
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
Korn Ferry is huge firm and I'd be shocked if Cohen hasn't used them countless times as well as probably all of their top competitors. I'd be shocked if he doesn't have personal relationships with the CEOs of most of them.
This search is 100% on Cohen. He has every resource necessary to find someone good and more experience/time to operate than last year. There are no excuses for not finding a strong candidate. Unless his heart was set on leading his own thing, if there was any price to get Theo on board he should have done that.
Eric,
Let's be fair, you liked the idea of Sandy staying on because this would lead to a big fish. Sandy's impact seems to be close to zero when he can't even get Beane to agree to meet with Cohen, that seemed like a given. Do you still feel as if Sandy Alderson is a major "plus" in finding a big-time hire? Or that Sandy and Son are a net positive in landing someone? Ageist or not (Doug Melvin at 69 actually said he's too old for that kind of role... and it's a young man's game) outside of his time with Oakland (Billy Owens) why would Sandy know/be connected with highly regarded under the radar types? Bringing back Sandy was a mistake, they may well hire somebody good but Sandy returning didn't help this organization.
Having a wealth of experience with probably almost every executive in baseball doesn't mean he can make someone make any decision. I also said Beane seemed the biggest long shot of the top 3 and had Milwaukee not blocked again they would have had conversations with the other 2.
The results of this search are on Cohen. Working for him is the entire sales pitch and he writes the check.
and yes I still see zero downside to Sandy's involvement. With him they can still utilize whatever other resources they want to run the search (be it a consulting firm, MLB, whoever) and it's been continually made clear that it's understood in the industry he has no interest in being involved in the baseball day to day. the choice with sandy is the search running with him or without. If you choose without who is the preferred person for Cohen to hire to run it? call theo back?
in my experience they contract with people who have the relevant experience in those fields (like Sandy) and then package that up into whatever their secret sauce process is.
at the end of the day any search is a competent as the people involved in the decision. owners almost never have that competence themselves so they have lean on someone else.
who would you prefer that person to be? naming a consultancy is a straw-man. it's window dressing a professional process without any proven track record of improving odds of success hiring talent for pro sports. id personally take a successful and respected industry veteran over a consultancy. especially one with a unique familiarity of the organization.
Here are the ages of the heads of the "best' teams this year
Alex Anthopoulos-44
Andrew Friedman-44
Chaim Bloom-38
James Click- 43
Rick Hahn 50
Brian Cashman is the elder statesman of the group at 54 years old
It's a very young mans game (Melvin just noted that), why is Sandy Alderson some sort of asset in identifying these types? He was an advisor with the A's? So Billy Owens might be a guy he has insight into. Otherwise how often is he even interacting with the Brandon Gomes (4th in command) types in LAD? My guess is almost never.
"
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
you can say you'd hire korn ferry or some other consultancy but i can tell you from first hand experience working with consultants to hire executives is hit or miss even in far less competitive industries than pro sports.
if hiring talented baseball execs was easy every owner would do it. none of them lack the means if it were as easy as hiring KF.
John Ricco has been with the Mets since 2005, Ian Levin 2005, you don't think those 2, and Tommy Tanous (2010, running the draft since 2012, worked in Toronto and Texas), Marc Tramuta (also 2010, also Toronto) + Omar Minaya (back working with the team, advocated the Mets hiring Stearns in the first place) a consulting firm would be enough to head a search? I guess strongly agree to disagree.
You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.
It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
Link - ( New Window )
You'd have a situation where you got no say on the manager and have Sandy and his son looking over your shoulder the whole time. No thanks.
You'd have a situation where you got no say on the manager and have Sandy and his son looking over your shoulder the whole time. No thanks.
I assume you mean the POBO or GM job? Because I'm sure plenty of guys will take any managerial job they are offered. I know Rojas didn't work out but quite frankly, it feels like manager can be a relatively late hire and still be fine.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
As far as the search goes, everybody is a nobody until they're a somebody - so I don't have an issue with striking out on the name guys. It seems to be a young man's game so I'd like to see them bring in young assistant GMs at successful clubs for interviews. They don't necessarily need a consultancy - I'm sure Cohen and his top resources at Point72 are as smart as Korn Ferry.
The quote Dan shared yesterday about the future of the sport, vertical pitch movement, was very interesting. Haven't read much about the team's efforts to beef up the analytics department - I wonder how much of that is a matter of waiting on a POBO.
This linked article gives a breakdown on the size of the departments across the league. With Cohen's money, and the NYC location, there is no reason for the Mets to not build the largest and most capable analytics department in baseball over the next few years.
Link - ( New Window )
Good graphic... but our director of baseball analytics predicts Oscar winners... do theirs!?
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
In the months before the meeting at the diner, Friedman had sent letters to all 30 teams looking for a job. When he finally got an interview with the Indians for an internship, he finished second.
A little more than a year later, at 28, he was the head of baseball operations in Tampa Bay.
There's a market inefficiency there that Cohen can take advantage of. He can throw money at building a large analytics department filled with smart candidates - and NYC has a pull for that type of candidate.
Link - ( New Window )
I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
Quote:
In comment 15420984 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
@ragazzoreport
·
51s
For what It's worth, Carlos Beltran declined to discuss the Mets' managerial vacancy with me upon request
This decision is obviously for the POBO to make, but Beltran's current interest in managing again is currently unknown. He has kept a low profile since the Mets fired him
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case.
I want to mildly push back against this idea.
Use the NFL as an example. How many times have you seen the same guy get re-heated into the same GM or Coach position with a different franchise more than once. It's a very insular, exclusionary society, NFL management. I don't think it's far-fetched to think MLB is that way too. I simply don't believe that the only reason is because there are only so many people on earth who could do those jobs. I believe it has more to do with being risk-averse and not going outside the circle of people you trust. Networking is how executive get a lot of their jobs, right?
When the Giants needed a GM, who were the people they called? Accorsi, a former trusted employee. When they needed coaches, who did they ask for ideas? Belichick introduced them to one of his coaches.
For a very long time (basically until this decade) sports executives were basically among a very select few who were on a merry go round. In the last couple decades there have been a lot of outside the box with hires. younger, non traditional backgrounds. Those people (like Stearns and Theo and Depo and others) had been working their way up to those positions since the 90's and there are younger versions of them out there right now waiting to be hired.
the challenge as is ever the case is choosing who the right ones are and who they aren't.
the expanding talent pool is a very good thing that has made the game smarter overall and undeniably opened the door to a larger talent pool - but i dont think that has really changed the odds of successful hires for leadership positions in any sport. For every Sean McVay there have been 10 Jim Zorn/eric managini/chip kellys. sports are zero sum, immediate gratification, public beheadings, businesses mostly are not. Out of 32 GMs and coaches only a very small handful are successful most years.
BVW was an outside the box hire, and a very successful executive adjacent to being in an MLB FO. And his trade was one 99% of the met fans on this board knew was a disaster day 1.
it seems like there's always impulse to say "how hard can it be to find a smart talented GM" but just looking at the landscape of all pro sports it's not easy. or else more organizations would do it.
Quote:
In comment 15421476 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15420984 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
but I still maintain that it's not easy because of the small talent pool.. not that it's just hard to select the talent..
Want to take BVW as an example? Baseball player who went to Stanford on scholarship. Was he smart enough to go to Stanford without baseball? Who knows?
Let's give him the benefit of doubt and say he IS really smart and talented. He then had to decide to turn down guaranteed 6 figure jobs to take an entry level position with the Bulls and then a sports agency.. something that very few people in his spot would do because the path is so long and arduous and there are only a handful of gigs on that career path that result in wealth...
Or... let's say that he isn't really that smart.. that his name is "Brodie" and he has a Stanford degree, looks good in a suit, and he's just really personable... OR maybe he knew someone, like Sandy Alderson's son does...
I still think the talent pool they are picking from is probably more of the 2nd scenario than the first.. and BVW might be the perfect example of it.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
Quote:
"Alderson’s presence can be complicating in its own right. One of the sport’s pre-eminent executives of the last 40 years, Alderson and his role in a future front office remain nebulous; the more the Mets have messed up the construction of that regime, the more responsibility has fallen into Alderson’s hands. The idea is for him to move over to the business side once the Mets bring in a new exec, but last year he mentioned still having a seat at the table for baseball decisions. Add it up, and it’s hard for an incoming executive to gauge the precise level of autonomy he’d be afforded in the organizational structure.
"
the next time Tim Britton gets a scoop on anything relevant will be the first time. Seems like a nice guy and is a fine writer but he's not nearly as plugged in as martino who has said it's clearly understood Alderson doesn't plan to remain involved in the baseball side.
Quote:
(responding to this "Maybe no one wants to work with Sandy Alderson breathing down their neck.")
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
This is a misconception. It is well understood in the industry that Alderson doesn’t want to run baseball ops. The issue is permissions.
and re your other post on ages:
Jared Porter 41 years old (40 a year ago)
Zack Scott 44 years old (43 a year ago)
the alarmist narrative that the mets will never put together a front office comprised of the type of young up and comers they hired...checks notes...literally 1 year ago is...bizarre.
they were right to talk to Theo.
they were right to ask permission on Stearns/Beane.
not doing those things would have been negligent and everyone on here would have said so. let's see where they end up because so far this search is playing out exactly as last year's did (and most were happy with where that one ended up until dickpickgate).
Uh, I hate to break it to you but Andy Martino is well known to be a company/team shill. This idea he's some newsbreaker is ridiculous. He was the one who kept insisting Beane was a very real option and now is claiming they may pounce quickly on Baez... who pray tell would be making that decision if not Sandy? Sandy flat out said he will have a "seat at the table". Who else has seats? The assistant GM's are... Bryn ALDERSON (his son) Ian Levin (who has worked with Sandy for 9 years) and John Ricco. You don't see anything strange about that?
Quote:
In comment 15421500 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15421476 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15420984 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
every big organization would have great executives and to put it mildly that is not the case. executive compensation isn't what it is for no reason.
Disagree.. but we could debate that all day and not the point here..
I still think there are a lot of people out there with the passion and the talent to be fantastic sports executives but the path is too risky relative to other options...
And to pj's point, its not a relevant comp to Fortune 500... these pro sports teams are very small orgs and thats exactly my point. The sports teams don't have an abundance of candidates because there isn't a robust talent pipeline to draw from.
Low level baseball jobs have very low pay and brutal hours and they're looking for guys with high level wall street type credentials, or quants with phds. Its a tough path to choose to go down - why not just stick it out at goldman?
Friedman of course left GS.
Exactly my point
this is antiquated. most pro sports teams unpaid interns are basically picking from ivy's if that's what they choose to do. sports jobs have been coveted from the ground floor up for decades.
Jared Porter has a history degree from Bowdoin and in 2002 he was interning in the Cape Code league. Zack Scott graduated with a degree in mathematics in 1999 and basically worked with the Red Sox for 2 decades before coming to the mets.
hell BVW was not only a Stanford grad whose first job was interning with the Bulls in the late 90's, he worked his way up to be a highly successful exec at a highly successful sports organization.
and 99% of the met fans on this board knew his first trade was a disaster the moment he made it.
as I said above, the talent pool in front offices has expanded for decades to a likely overwhelmingly positive impact in terms of how much smarter and more competitive the game is collectively.
it has not made it any easier to figure out who has the magic to lead a winning organization any more than it's gotten easier to get draft picks right in any sport.
I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...
It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.