for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Mets denied permission to speak to Stearns

DanMetroMan : 10/18/2021 11:02 am
There is also a rumor swirling Beane may also be shockingly blocked by Oakland but that's not confirmed.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
Martino  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:23 pm : link
"Industry chatter was that both Beane and Stearns were at least open-minded about the possibility of talking to Steve Cohen."

Beane said no thank you to his mentor before the Mets even asked for permission.

The Mets need Sandy Alderson and his son here in order to land the remaining names? Really? One year of Sandy Alderson knowing Steve Cohen is what's going to be a deciding factor? A season in which the Mets were a joke, the culture was questioned and the owner took hits for his use of twitter? Again, you insisted Sandy was going to help land some big fish. Didn't happen or some close. His value is what? Brandon Gomes has zero connection to Sandy Alderson, they needed Sandy here to land a guy like that? Why?
Martino-  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:26 pm : link
"On the day of thumbgate, it was a near-certainty that Baez would soon be a former Met. Now, according to league sources, there is a real chance that Baez and the Mets will agree early in the offseason on a contract extension that would install him at second base for years to come."

So... if there is not a head of baseball decisions, and Sandy isn't going to be involved in this.. then where is this coming from? The current regime no? Not thin air.
RE: This  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:28 pm : link
In comment 15421126 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is probably getting tedious for people to read but allow me to ask this final question.

You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.

It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?


Eric,
You also neglected to respond to this. I'm genuinely curious your thoughts.
Dan I know you're very down on the search but im not pivoting  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2021 5:29 pm : link
Sorry I won't call the search a failure before we even know how it ends. I posted above earlier that if they end up with anyone resoundingly worse than Porter it will be a failure - but I have said from the beginning the search is entirely on Cohen. If he fails it will be on him. Sandy is tool he retains at his disposal and one whom I agree with him has value. That value is that he's respected. Being respected doesn't mean you can make people's decisions for them.

they got the meeting with Theo which means there was a chance for it to be a fit.

I never thought beane was a good fit and said so even though I'd have still tried to ask like they did.

Stearns appears unwilling to force the issue out of Milwaukee and the information on his contract status evolved to say he had some kind of vesting option so his situation wasn't as clean as originally reported.

regardless they did the right thing trying to go for those 3. or do you disagree just because it didn't work out? or think they could have done something differently to get 1 of those 3?
Better  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:29 pm : link
chance Omar returns than the Mets hire Luhnow
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Dan I know you're very down on the search but im not pivoting  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:32 pm : link
In comment 15421938 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Sorry I won't call the search a failure before we even know how it ends. I posted above earlier that if they end up with anyone resoundingly worse than Porter it will be a failure - but I have said from the beginning the search is entirely on Cohen. If he fails it will be on him. Sandy is tool he retains at his disposal and one whom I agree with him has value. That value is that he's respected. Being respected doesn't mean you can make people's decisions for them.

they got the meeting with Theo which means there was a chance for it to be a fit.

I never thought beane was a good fit and said so even though I'd have still tried to ask like they did.

Stearns appears unwilling to force the issue out of Milwaukee and the information on his contract status evolved to say he had some kind of vesting option so his situation wasn't as clean as originally reported.

regardless they did the right thing trying to go for those 3. or do you disagree just because it didn't work out? or think they could have done something differently to get 1 of those 3?


I'm actually not "down" on the search at all, I only thought Beane was realistic (and I've said as much) but to not be able to even secure a meeting with Beane is pretty terrible optics when Sandy is his mentor and the whole "point" of Sandy being here (according to you yourself) was Sandy selling Cohen to big candidates like Beane.

I'm very down on Sandy Alderson still being here and 2 assistant GM's, long time Sandy guys (one his son) getting promotions in July, yes, that yes a major downer. Why do the Mets ALWAYS have to do things in an unusual way. Why is Sandy still here, his son and 2 long-time associates (Levin/Ricco) still here as assistants? How common do you see such a thing in successful franchises?
Bottom  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:37 pm : link
line, of the remaining names the Mets could have hired any of them who had interest without Sandy Alderson and Co. here. Josh Byrnes is making a life decision based on Sandy Alderson saying "Cohen is a good dude, I've known him for a year, I'll vouch for him?", sorry I'm not buying that at all, nor would I view Josh Byrnes (stellar draft/development record, awful trade/signing record, poor w/L) record as some sort of "home run" on paper that keeping Sandy would suggest "we had to do it". If you're trying to pry away a guy like Antonetti, he doesn't need Sandy Alderson's POV, he's worked within MLB FO's for 23 seasons etc etc.
RE: RE: This  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2021 5:38 pm : link
In comment 15421936 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15421126 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is probably getting tedious for people to read but allow me to ask this final question.

You're a highly, highly regarded executive at another company. Company B comes along and tells you they want to hire you away and put you in charge of the company. Company B's former head is going to remain on but says he will focus on other things but he would like a "seat at the table" in regard to the decisions the company makes. The decision making "committee" will be quite small.

It will be the owner as the final decision maker... and then YOU, the guy you are essentially replacing, HIS son, 2 guys who have worked with your ex-boss for YEARS (Ricco/Levin) and maybe one more guy (a GM), this wouldn't cause you to be somewhat cautious in considering this job?



Eric,
You also neglected to respond to this. I'm genuinely curious your thoughts.


I'm trying to catch up i've had a lot to respond to.

Here's my answer:

POBO should have final say on everything from his staff to the new manager. If Cohen is unwilling to do that or Sandy is unwilling to relinquish (2 things that haven't been reported by anyone) then Cohen should either name Sandy POBO or let him walk if uninterested in that level of involvement.

If they don't find a more senior POBO and hire a younger executive as a first time GM like they did with Porter last year it's more of a gray area.

If Theo or Beane agreed to come here both would have been part owners with discretion to literally do whatever they wanted. Sandy's presence wasn't impacting them being a fit with Cohen or wanting this job.

Stearns has been blocked 2 years in a row by his team but the need to be blocked implies he had some level of interest if he weren't blocked. I'm very curious to see what ends up happening with an extension in Milwaukee.
IF  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:48 pm : link
they end up hiring a GM because they didn't find the right POBO, how is anybody really going to believe Sandy isn't heavily involved? Are they really turning over the entire team to a guy like Gomes with 2 years of being an assistant GM? (Remember, Cohen's quote he doesn't want to pay people to learn on the job). The truth is, nobody should have been promoted in July and everything evaluated when the season was over. Sandy should have kicked himself up into a special assistant to the owner, or an advisor role. Alderson's son and Levin may yet be worthy of MLB FO jobs but it sure makes things "strange" to come into a situation where

Tanous, Tramuta, Alderson (and son), Ricco, Levin are already in place (not to mention have had a year to interact with the owner and be in his ear). Friedman didn't ride into LA with an entire FO already in place. Obviously, if they hire a POBO he'll bring in some of his own people but this is far less than ideal.
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:51 pm : link
I'll keep hammering home... I'd hope to land one of the Twins duo and offer them full autonomy. They have 2 top notch young names, one might bite at having their own show to run. Either one would be a home run
Moze - this is a different argument  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2021 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15421913 moze1021 said:
Quote:

I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...

It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.


Last year when asked about a model he was interested in, Cohen used the Dodgers. He talked at length about wanting to build a pipeline of smart people internally and I believe there were articles written about some specific investments made - and how it was a big part of his successes at p72/SAC to hire the brightest both externally from the market and internally via development.

If I'm remembering right Zack Scott's main purview under Porter was supposed to be assembling the analytics team. Investing in a best in class front office top to bottom is one of Cohen's day 1 stated objectives and simply not something that can be done quickly (or before hiring the leader of that organization in the first place).

I think a helpful exercise for many in this thread would be to ask themselves how they'd feel about the direction of the franchise today if Jared Porter hadn't taken a picture of his dick and sent it to someone 5 years ago. And then also realize how insane the ripple effects were for this franchise from the latter event.

None of us have any idea if last offseason and season would have ended up differently. I think one of the last things porter was supposedly close to doing was signing Kike Hernandez. But forgetting whether or not the outcome of the season would have been different just think about what we all thought they had hired with him - a young, bright, forward thinking executive from the Theo tree with rings and recent successes who was already in progress hiring young, bright, forward thinking executives from other teams with similar resumes.

the only silver lining was the prospect of going straight to the source and landing a big fish in Theo (or 1 of the others, but imo Theo was the guy). Cohen got the meeting with Theo and if there's anything I'm disappointed in it's that he didn't close him.
SNY Mets  
Ira : 10/19/2021 5:53 pm : link
@SNY_Mets
·
3h
If the Mets make a serious offer early, Báez would be inclined to stay.

More on the relationship between the two parties: http://on.sny.tv/AYg858F
RE: Moze - this is a different argument  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 5:58 pm : link
In comment 15421969 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15421913 moze1021 said:


Quote:



I feel like we are using the same data to make the same point. If your talent pipeline is relying on unpaid internships, you aren't attracting the best and brightest...

It's like teachers. Yes, there are some really smart people who decide to be school teachers because they are altruistic and don't care about money... but the job just doesn't pay enough or afford the growth opportunities to consistently attract the best teaching talent.



Last year when asked about a model he was interested in, Cohen used the Dodgers. He talked at length about wanting to build a pipeline of smart people internally and I believe there were articles written about some specific investments made - and how it was a big part of his successes at p72/SAC to hire the brightest both externally from the market and internally via development.

If I'm remembering right Zack Scott's main purview under Porter was supposed to be assembling the analytics team. Investing in a best in class front office top to bottom is one of Cohen's day 1 stated objectives and simply not something that can be done quickly (or before hiring the leader of that organization in the first place).

I think a helpful exercise for many in this thread would be to ask themselves how they'd feel about the direction of the franchise today if Jared Porter hadn't taken a picture of his dick and sent it to someone 5 years ago. And then also realize how insane the ripple effects were for this franchise from the latter event.

None of us have any idea if last offseason and season would have ended up differently. I think one of the last things porter was supposedly close to doing was signing Kike Hernandez. But forgetting whether or not the outcome of the season would have been different just think about what we all thought they had hired with him - a young, bright, forward thinking executive from the Theo tree with rings and recent successes who was already in progress hiring young, bright, forward thinking executives from other teams with similar resumes.

the only silver lining was the prospect of going straight to the source and landing a big fish in Theo (or 1 of the others, but imo Theo was the guy). Cohen got the meeting with Theo and if there's anything I'm disappointed in it's that he didn't close him.


That's a bit simplistic don't you think? It's suggesting Porter (if not for the dick pic) was a guarantee to be good in this role. I was VERY high on him but let's not pretend it was a given. Josh Byrnes was viewed as a TOP young mind, completely failed his first 2 shots at it (Arizona/SD), not really sure why Porter was any guarantee to be any different. The Mets went into this season with 2 Alderson's, Porter, Scott, Levin, Ricco, they now have 2 Alderson's, Levin, Ricco... who/what is so amazing about what they have done so far? Ben Zauzmer leading the analytics department? Let's also remember Cohen wanted La Russa and Arn Tellem to run the Dodgers, so while I'd be a complete moron to question his business acumen, his building of a baseball franchise remains to be seen, right down to targeting Sandy Alderson as his first big move.
Scott  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 6:01 pm : link
Harris is from SF so it's hard to see him leaving or even the Mets making a guy with 2 years GM experience POBO (which would be the only way to even talk to him aka a promotion). Gomes (supposedly) will be promoted to GM with the Dodgers.
Dan I'm not saying that Porter was guaranteed to be good  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2021 6:16 pm : link
I'm saying his plan/bio was seemingly what everyone is looking for. It's a total unknown whether he would have been good or bad, which in a way makes him a very good baseline for the present situation.

but if last year never happened and Jared Porter was available right now (2016 incident notwithstanding) would he check the boxes you want right now?
Jared  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 6:28 pm : link
Porter was supposed to be #2 in command, not come in and be in charge. They couldn’t land a “big POBO” so they pivoted toward a GM that they “hoped” would move up to that status one day. This would be akin to hiring a guy like Gomes as GM this off-season.. which would lead… Sandy Alderson once again “in charge”. Even last off-season (pre-dick pics) there was some fantasy of Theo coming on board this off-season in part because Porter would be here as GM. Would a Porter type check all of the GM boxes? Yes. Would I be a happy with Porter type and Sandy as the guy “on top” of him again in 2022? Absolutely not.
Eric  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 6:33 pm : link
Ignoring the fact the Dodgers seem likely to keep him, if they went into the season with Gomes as “the hire” as GM and Sandy the president, you’d honestly be thinking “job well done” on paper?
My  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 6:46 pm : link
Disappointment with the Mets (if it’s not obvious) is not “striking out” on the 3 big targets (disappointing Sandy couldn’t even secure a meeting…) but rather the disjointed/odd FO setup that I’ve banged on throughout this thread
. I’m not “boo boo those were the only 3” I’m “boo hoo, I’m disappointed Sandy is still here with his son in an elevated position”
I don't know enough about Gomes to comment  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2021 6:47 pm : link
and at this point last year I didn't know much about porter either. Porter seemed to be tracking towards a promotion to POBO at the time he got fired and everything pre-firing seemed positive.

I don't care about titles - just make a strong enough hire to be the day to day leader of the baseball side. Strong enough to be the one leading a fresh new manager search and start building out a FO like Porter was as an example.

I don't have much concern about Sandy or his ego micro managing if they hire a strong leader (as Porter appeared to be and Scott appeared not to be). I don't recall anyone saying they had issues working with him in his decade here or rumors from elsewhere. I believe him when he has said repeatedly that he is looking to offload as much of the baseball ops job as he can.

And I'm almost positive I'd prefer a Sandy/Heck or Sandy/Gomes type arrangement over a more middling but experienced exec like Michael Hill who seems to not be at all in demand.
Brandon  
DanMetroMan : 10/19/2021 6:56 pm : link
Gomes has spent 2 seasons as an assistant GM, 4th in command in LA, you honestly think Sandy is going to just hand things over to somebody like that? Or it’s ideal for him to have Sandy and his son as 2 of his “cabinet”? I guess agree to disagree. Some young upstart having Sandy and his son there is going to be in a very rough spot.
RE: Brandon  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2021 8:59 pm : link
In comment 15422049 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Gomes has spent 2 seasons as an assistant GM, 4th in command in LA, you honestly think Sandy is going to just hand things over to somebody like that? Or it’s ideal for him to have Sandy and his son as 2 of his “cabinet”? I guess agree to disagree. Some young upstart having Sandy and his son there is going to be in a very rough spot.


I think we have no idea who Sandy is talking to. This time last year we thought we were hiring Chris Young or Billy Owens.

If I were betting on it (and im not bc we have no idea) he will end up with someone like Heck, or one of the twins guys you like, or maybe even one of the guys from Cleveland. Someone we've all heard of but aren't talking about.

I don't recall seeing the name Porter before he was named last year and certainly not connected as a front runner. And I don't think we heard Zack Scott's name either, who was not only a finalist but obviously was also willing to take a lesser role.
Dan/Eric  
Drewcon40 : 10/19/2021 11:07 pm : link
I sincerely enjoy your commentary - i know you guys are debating but it is the only Mets talk I am reading. The Twins guys you are referring to, one is Thad Levine is the other guy Derek Falvey (he is already PoBO for Twin), is he the other guy you guys would like the Mets to seek?
Michael Mayer  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 8:34 am : link
(Who interestingly enough has been more than once praised by Andy Martino, who Eric likes)
Via twitter
“ Text I received from a baseball source on the Mets front office search, “Who is going to want to sign up to be the meat in an Alderson sandwich.”
RE: Dan/Eric  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 8:35 am : link
In comment 15422226 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
I sincerely enjoy your commentary - i know you guys are debating but it is the only Mets talk I am reading. The Twins guys you are referring to, one is Thad Levine is the other guy Derek Falvey (he is already PoBO for Twin), is he the other guy you guys would like the Mets to seek?


I think Falvey would be an extreme long shot but they have two “stud” executives between he and Falvey. One is going to eventually want to have their own team
RE: Michael Mayer  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 8:37 am : link
In comment 15422317 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
(Who interestingly enough has been more than once praised by Andy Martino, who Eric likes)
Via twitter
“ Text I received from a baseball source on the Mets front office search, “Who is going to want to sign up to be the meat in an Alderson sandwich.”


Seidler

“ Been hearing this (well, less funny, but…) a lot in the past few weeks. Mike’s tweets have been extremely on point this entire search”
Seidler is a clown who regularly beclowns himself  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 9:37 am : link
Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.

btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).
Britt Ghiroli  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 9:42 am : link
This morning..

“But there’s another potential issue lurking, regarding the curious timing of the promotion of Alderson’s son, Bryn, who along with Ian Levin was promoted to assistant general manager this summer when the Mets didn’t have a GM or president of baseball operations. Bryn, who joined the organization as a scout in late 2011, was previously scouting director.“

But hey what do I know….
RE: Seidler is a clown who regularly beclowns himself  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 9:45 am : link
In comment 15422401 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.

btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).


And Britt Ghiroli who has broken major stories for the Athletic? What’s her flaw?
RE: Seidler is a clown who regularly beclowns himself  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 9:48 am : link
In comment 15422401 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.

btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).


Eric.. his DAD promoted him in July.. you don’t see any issue with that? All of these people are lying stating they are hearing it’s a concern? Britt Ghiroli couldn’t be any more respected throughout baseball.
More from the same piece  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 9:50 am : link
Sandy Alderson has said his preference would be to transition fully to the business side. But there is skepticism within the industry that it would even be feasible, and some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position on the baseball side regardless. The dynamic of having a high-powered father-son duo is a potentially concerning component for any new front-office hire, one that sources say has adversely come into play before in the Mets’ current organizational structure. Who, some wonder, would really hold the power to make organizational decisions?

Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.

Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
Puma  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 9:56 am : link
Not to be discounted is the possibility the Mets would hire a “name” front office leader who would bring gravitas to the position, but not necessarily a strong baseball operations résumé, and then surround that person with a general manager and staff well versed in the nuts and bolts.

The Mets, under their previous ownership, tried that tactic three years ago when Brodie Van Wagenen, an agent, was hired as the general manager. Van Wagenen was fired upon Cohen’s arrival last November.

In his bid to buy the Dodgers before the 2012 season, Cohen planned to hire Tony La Russa as his president of baseball operations. There is the thought that Cohen could seek a prominent name to set the vision for the organization while letting the general manager handle the daily duties.


direct quote from Britt's story from Sandy  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 10:02 am : link
Quote:
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.

Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”


again there's 30 years of history of Sandy as an executive have there been any negative accusations about working with/for him or accuse him of being an outright liar?

what's the theory here - he's an egomaniac looking to keep his family in control except 2 of the only 3 known targets would only ever take jobs with literal ownership stake and full autonomy to do anything they wanted? how does that align?

plan A - make a splashy homerun hire
plan B - fuck that every man for himself

I suppose we are also memory holing that Sandy essentially took himself out of the GM role last time and publicly stated that he wasn't sure his performance deserved the job after he returned to health? But now he's desperate to stay involved?
Eric  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:07 am : link
Are you suggesting it’s common practice to promote your son in July when you’re known to be looking to hire a new head of baseball after the season? Are you suggesting all of these people are fabricating this story?
this quote from Britt's article is also imo dead on  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 10:09 am : link
Quote:
“Executives value three things: money, years and autonomy,” said one high-ranking baseball official. “Will they get that there (in New York)?”


That is why imo this search is very much on Cohen. As long as you put enough money and years on the table autonomy becomes self fulfilling.

The issue is obviously you aren't just writing a blank check to anyone. You have to find and get permission for the right candidates.
In  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:09 am : link
Fact in Puma’s piece he suggested some thing Cohen is going to push Sandy aside and run the search himself. So why is Sandy even here again? I thought to bring some sort of gravitas? Again, all along you suggested Sandy would be some big carrot that would “sell Cohen” you have since pivoted completely. They needed Sandy Alderson here to pluck the Brewers second in command or the Dodgers 3-4th? No
RE: this quote from Britt's article is also imo dead on  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:10 am : link
In comment 15422472 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


“Executives value three things: money, years and autonomy,” said one high-ranking baseball official. “Will they get that there (in New York)?”





That is why imo this search is very much on Cohen. As long as you put enough money and years on the table autonomy becomes self fulfilling.

The issue is obviously you aren't just writing a blank check to anyone. You have to find and get permission for the right candidates.


Wait… you’re both disputing her article AND citing a portion. That is “dead on”?
Multiple  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:13 am : link
Writers noting the concern of the setup, yet to see a single one suggest candidates are intrigued to join the Mets because of Sandy or interested in the Mets because of him. Beane was supposed to be that. Where are these reports?
RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15422466 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Are you suggesting it’s common practice to promote your son in July when you’re known to be looking to hire a new head of baseball after the season? Are you suggesting all of these people are fabricating this story?


I'm suggesting that it's hyperbole intended to be salacious clickbait.

I'd wager almost every single pro sports organization has a Bryn Alderson in it. Or a Steve Belichek. Or a Chris Mara. Or a Stephen Jones. Or a Sanford Sternberg (i'll save you the 5 minutes of googling, he's a recent columbia MBA who is the TB rays director of development strategy and also the owners son).

The presence of a relation to a high ranking FO member or owner is viewed as scandalous or not almost entirely through the prism of whether or not the team is successful on the field.
A lot of chatter here ignores the fact that Cohen is  
bhill410 : 10/20/2021 10:23 am : link
The decision maker not Anderson. If they received permission to talk to Stearns and he conveyed that he would accept gig if alderson was gone alderson would be gone. If you end up with a newbie gm then yea that’s more awkward but there are only 30 gm gigs so if you don’t have one and can get one you likely are going to take it and deal with whatever the dynamics are (which btw are present in multiple forms). Furthermore if there is someone who is a GM and they offer him president role that once more is something that a lot of current GMs would consider. They also would have certain assurances from Cohen as to what autonomy would be. It’s a lot of consternation over someone who likely won’t be with team in a year and is trying to set his son up for better roles in the future. It’s not a nothing burger but it’s overblown.
RE: RE: Seidler is a clown who regularly beclowns himself  
moze1021 : 10/20/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15422421 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15422401 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


Mayer is a good beat/blogger but I don't think he's plugged into anyone notable outside the met world. I'd wager a lot his source is closer to the Nick Francona level than Terry.

btw Bryn Alderson fits the exact profile of smart guys everyone says they want, he graduated from Dartmouth in 2003 and then spent almost a decade as a scout with Oakland under Beane. Then spent the last decade as a scout with the Mets coming over after the 2011 season. I have no idea if he's jeff wilpon or Sean McVay but I'd probably bet more on the latter than the former. The Mets org kept him around in the 2 years after Sandy left, nobody would stay within 100 feet of Jeff if they weren't forced too (including A Rod).



Eric.. his DAD promoted him in July.. you don’t see any issue with that? All of these people are lying stating they are hearing it’s a concern? Britt Ghiroli couldn’t be any more respected throughout baseball.



If a person's family already has (a lot of) money, or they are athletically gifted (see: BVW, on both counts), then you can't use the school they attended as a clear barometer for their aptitude.

The fact that Bryn Alderson is an Assistant GM is much more evidence of the fact that nepotism and relationships are a bigger driver than unbiased development of a robust human capital pipeline.

This is very common with small privately owned companies.

There are Private Equity firms all over the world whose business model is to identify companies that have relied on this incestual talent development model.

They find companies who were started and built by hungry, smart, passionate entrepreneurs... who then passed company leadership through to their family members who are either (1) not as talented despite their pedigree or (2) just as talented, but the world has passed the collective family unit by in terms of skills necessary to be successful (eg. a good scout 30 years ago has a son, son is just as good a scout, son has no data analytics skills).

These firms then put capable management in place and maximize value (sometimes resulting in the ultimate destruction of the business, sure, but adding overall economic value nonetheless)

The Epstein's and Bloom's are Unicorns. Guys who could have taken an easier path to success elsewhere, but chose to take the big risk and go for it in something they were passionate about. For every 1 of them, there are probably dozens of guys who love the sport/sports business just as much but decided to go into Investment Banking or Consulting or business management/finance in broader industries with more opportunities and less of an incestual hurdle to overcome.
RE: RE: this quote from Britt's article is also imo dead on  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15422478 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15422472 Eric on Li said:


Quote:




Quote:


“Executives value three things: money, years and autonomy,” said one high-ranking baseball official. “Will they get that there (in New York)?”





That is why imo this search is very much on Cohen. As long as you put enough money and years on the table autonomy becomes self fulfilling.

The issue is obviously you aren't just writing a blank check to anyone. You have to find and get permission for the right candidates.



Wait… you’re both disputing her article AND citing a portion. That is “dead on”?


You got me here. Everything is totally binary. Articles are either 100% great where we believe everything in them equally or completely dispute everything in them. No gray area or logic needed.

and to be clear I don't dispute anything she wrote as being accurately something from a source - but it's clear within the article different things are sourced to different sources.

I value named quotes more than unnamed quotes.
And I value her description of "high-ranking baseball official" who the quote I posted was attributed to more than
"some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position" where she has no high ranking direct source attributed - just "some in the game". Whatever that means.

Sorry but not all quotes are equal and who they are attributed to matters.
RE: A lot of chatter here ignores the fact that Cohen is  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:26 am : link
In comment 15422501 bhill410 said:
Quote:
The decision maker not Anderson. If they received permission to talk to Stearns and he conveyed that he would accept gig if alderson was gone alderson would be gone. If you end up with a newbie gm then yea that’s more awkward but there are only 30 gm gigs so if you don’t have one and can get one you likely are going to take it and deal with whatever the dynamics are (which btw are present in multiple forms). Furthermore if there is someone who is a GM and they offer him president role that once more is something that a lot of current GMs would consider. They also would have certain assurances from Cohen as to what autonomy would be. It’s a lot of consternation over someone who likely won’t be with team in a year and is trying to set his son up for better roles in the future. It’s not a nothing burger but it’s overblown.


"Deal with whatever the dynamics are" is the issue. Do you honestly believe (again just using him as an example/name) Brandon Gomes is set up for success or looks at the Mets job as especially appealing (keep in mind he's already a hot name for GM's jobs) if Sandy, Sandy's son, Ian Levin and John Ricco are already part of his FO? I'm going to STRONGLY guess it's a net negative, not a "woah, I get to work with Sandy Alderson! and his son too!"
Eric  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:28 am : link
not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.
RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 10:32 am : link
In comment 15422512 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.


Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?

That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.

Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".
RE: RE: A lot of chatter here ignores the fact that Cohen is  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 10:33 am : link
In comment 15422508 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15422501 bhill410 said:


Quote:


The decision maker not Anderson. If they received permission to talk to Stearns and he conveyed that he would accept gig if alderson was gone alderson would be gone. If you end up with a newbie gm then yea that’s more awkward but there are only 30 gm gigs so if you don’t have one and can get one you likely are going to take it and deal with whatever the dynamics are (which btw are present in multiple forms). Furthermore if there is someone who is a GM and they offer him president role that once more is something that a lot of current GMs would consider. They also would have certain assurances from Cohen as to what autonomy would be. It’s a lot of consternation over someone who likely won’t be with team in a year and is trying to set his son up for better roles in the future. It’s not a nothing burger but it’s overblown.



"Deal with whatever the dynamics are" is the issue. Do you honestly believe (again just using him as an example/name) Brandon Gomes is set up for success or looks at the Mets job as especially appealing (keep in mind he's already a hot name for GM's jobs) if Sandy, Sandy's son, Ian Levin and John Ricco are already part of his FO? I'm going to STRONGLY guess it's a net negative, not a "woah, I get to work with Sandy Alderson! and his son too!"


Did you get the feeling Jared Porter was not set up for success last year when he was hired? Did he seem encumbered from bringing over people he trusted into prominent roles? Honest questions.
RE: RE: Eric  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15422522 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15422512 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


not being snarky but you really expect a candidate to say "I'm concerned about..." when Thad Levine and Josh Byrnes turned down the Phillies last year they cited how much they loved their current organizations. We will likely never hear Beane/Theo's rationale but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, neither one would ever say "I don't like Cohen" or "I don't like the fact the Alderson's are there". Nobody is ever going to do that, even somebody completely established. Matt Arnold takes an interview with the Mets, feels the FO situation is complicated, he's not going to ever say that, ever.



Just spitballing here but maybe, just maybe, we should wait to see who they hire then judge the results?

That will not only be a publicly known fact but there will likely be a press conference and everything.

Or we get our panties in a knot now because of something "some in the game have pointed out".


Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.
We  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:37 am : link
will never know how well Porter was set up for success because he was unable to do his job (his own fault, not suggesting that's on Sandy) but how can I "prove" Sandy would have stepped aside and let Porter run the show when it wasn't allowed to happen? What we do know is Sandy was the final decision maker on baseball decisions once Porter was let go. Scott did the leg work, brought moves to Sandy (and presumably the major ones then to Cohen).
RE: RE: RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 10/20/2021 10:38 am : link
In comment 15422528 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.


I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.

I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.

If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.

I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.
Should  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:41 am : link
be noted the role Scott was hired for, is now filled by Sandy's son and Ian Levin. So it's questionable how much "hiring" a new guy will even have. Will they have 3 assistant GM's? Why? If not, he's inheriting his FO? Even Brodie was allowed to bring on his own assistant GM (Adam Guttridge), as was Porter (Scott). The Mets have their assistant Gm's in place AND Sandy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Eric  
DanMetroMan : 10/20/2021 10:42 am : link
In comment 15422537 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15422528 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:



Of course whomever they hire will kiss Sandy/Cohen's ass. Again, when is somebody hired that doesn't do that? This idea Sandy would be a major "help" hiring a big fish has been proven false. Whether that's his "fault" or not is another story. A Matt Arnold type would be a great hire, if they hire him it won't be because Sandy Alderson was appealing and was able to sell Arnold on Steve Cohen after 12 months of knowing the man.



I don't care about what the new hire says about Sandy/Cohen.

I care about who the new hire is, their background, and what their vision for the team is.

If they hire a seemingly mediocre retread or someone that isn't viewed a quality young FO prospect I will be leading the charge on the failure of this search.

I'm not going to get spun up by clickbait foretelling doom until it happens though.


So you disagree with me that you suggested for months Sandy would be a major asset in reeling in a "big name" major hire because of his gravitas and now it's clear there may be some concerns with the FO having 2 Alderson's in major roles, and that the tier of guy they land likely didn't need Sandy Alderson here to come here? Deep down, you think the Mets would have been worse off if Sandy announced on the final day of the season he was retiring?
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner