you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
for a Sandy connection, there is no obvious one. Brewers and Rays for the past 15 seasons, Dodgers/Rangers/Reds before that.
unless i'm forgetting something there was no Sandy connection to Porter (or Scott) either.
Sandy has never been the right guy for Cohen to bring back for just 1 reason. He has been a successful executive in MLB for 3 decades, including here, for a variety of reasons. Relationships with some of the bigger fish was one of those reasons but just like last year when the search pivoted to younger candidates there were still positives to his presence even if he didn't have a direction prior relationship.
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
Who do you think is running the search if not him? Scott is on leave. Levin and Tanous are supposedly candidates. Who do you think is the point person formulating the list and presenting it to Cohen? The head of HR?
semi-serious fans knew of every one of the candidates (we know of) that the Mets have spoken to. Doesn't look at all like they needed some "deep dive" to identify them. In fact, the only one I didn't know a ton about before it was reported was Bendix. Matt Arnold has been a hot name for a while now, Angels and Marlins both were in on him recently.
could be a firm he hired, it could be John Ricco, it could be Tommy Tanous, it could be any number of people. Not really clear why Sandy Alderson would have some extensive list of secondary executives to suggest to Cohen. Why would Sandy Alderson know Peter Bendix? 4th in command in TB, 36 years old etc? Based on what?
it has nothing to do with who he knows it's who Cohen assigns the task
to lead. I don't know what's so confusing about Cohen likely delegating this task to the guy he specifically hired to be his senior guy running the team and has the most experience by far?
Who do you think made the decision on Rojas?
whoever the new hire is, who do you think is going to be the person to intro him and answer questions about why they chose him to the media?
I'd imagine it will be the same person who has been fielding questions on the topic for the last month and giving public comments on behalf of the franchise?
Quote:
Alderson said he hasn't yet reached out to any candidates. He also declined to name any names on his shortlist for the position.
Quote:
Asked what the Mets have to sell to prospective candidates that could lead their baseball operations, he said: “I’m selling Steve Cohen, I’m selling New York, I’m selling the opportunity to realize on the potential of a storied but not yet iconic franchise. I think there’s a tremendous amount to offer someone coming to the Mets. Is it a set piece? Is it something that doesn’t require a certain amount of work? No. That’s where the real enjoyment comes in, is creating something."
Quote:
Scott is currently on an indefinite administrative leave (more on that soon), but the Mets have a front office in place. A big question: Will they completely clean house when they hire a president of baseball operations?
"Well, so the practical answer to that question is that a new person coming in isn’t going to want to have to deal with all those type of infrastructure issues immediately," Alderson said. "They’re going to be happy to have a functioning group of capable people who will be able to move the team during those weeks and months that they become more familiar with the operation, more familiar with the individual abilities of the front-office employees or other within the organization."
During a different answer, Alderson said "anybody's tenure with the Mets will be subject to the decision of a new head of baseball operations." It sounds as if Alderson would like to have some structure in place for the big hire, even on an interim basis. Then the new hire can evaluate the situation and make changes if necessary.
Alderson never signed on to lead baseball operations, so he said he'll be happy to turn it over to the upcoming hire. After that person takes over, Alderson said he'll be "present and interested in the baseball side, but my involvement will depend on how much this new head of baseball operations wants from me."
you're sticking with Sandy Alderson needing to be here for Cohen to land a... Matt Arnold? He needed to be sold on Cohen by a man he presumably barely knows?
also presumably just made the call to keep Hefner so his "hands off" the baseball side sure seems to be false. They held an option on Hefner, why not wait?
yes I'm sticking with Sandy as a great choice for Cohen
to help him build out his baseball organization for a number of reasons.
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
RE: yes I'm sticking with Sandy as a great choice for Cohen
to help him build out his baseball organization for a number of reasons.
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Theo told all teams he wasn't interested in speaking about MLB jobs last year, Beane was never an "option" he was working on that SPAC that fell apart but he was either OUT of baseball or remaining with Oakland.
before the Porter stuff came out? I guess I’m wondering whether the Mets would keep him as one of 4-5 direct reports to the new GM or whether it would just be better to move on.
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
before the Porter stuff came out? I guess I’m wondering whether the Mets would keep him as one of 4-5 direct reports to the new GM or whether it would just be better to move on.
The general sentiment was yes. I believe the Mets said he had been a candidate for GM along with Porter, and then based on their relationship Porter was able to convince him to come over. It seemed like the plan was to relatively quickly promote Porter to PBO and Scott to GM assuming things were going well...which turned out to be a very bad assumption very quickly.
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
One analytics hire for a team that had 3 (vs 20ish for the Yankees) given all of the talk isn’t exactly impressive. Also who exactly were they going to hire internally as their GM if they didn’t hire a Porter? They didn’t even have reasonable candidates. Who said anything about open to hiring them? They talked up following the Dodgers model but they haven’t really done much (yet) to follow this. Have you read/heard about an influx of scouting hires? Or analytics hires? These presumably were things that could have been done with or without Porter.
Has always been viewed as a “depth” guy and not one to lead an organization. Very smart, analytics based but not known as a great communicator and was never one of the “hot shot” names like a Bloom, Zaidi, Friedman, Stearns etc
like wasn't his primary role rebuilding a lot of the same type of team he built in Boston from the ground up?
when porter left and Scott had to step into a bigger job I think that understandably had to get pushed to a back burner.
Scott’s forte was analytics. Whether he was given the ability to make these hires and/or was unable to do so because of Porter being fired I have no clue. Seems like only something part of the FO would be able to answer
here's the story I remembered from when he was shotgun promoted
In September 2018, a Red Sox team official pointed to the unfathomable standings on the Green Monster, the ones that showed Boston with 100 wins and more than two weeks to play.
“The reason we’re where we are there,” the official said, “is because of what they’ve done up there,” pointing to the office that houses the club’s department of analytics.
Over the previous four years, Scott had remade that department, turning an increased investment from ownership, increased autonomy from the front office and increased interest from the dugout into a baseball behemoth. Given the chance to build his own team of analysts as the vice president of research and development under Dave Dombrowski in 2015, Scott embraced every part of the challenge.
“That was really the first time I felt like I was put in a leadership position,” Scott said. “I loved it. I thought that managing people would be a strength of mine, and then I actually had a chance to show it.”
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Quote:
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
unless i'm forgetting something there was no Sandy connection to Porter (or Scott) either.
Sandy has never been the right guy for Cohen to bring back for just 1 reason. He has been a successful executive in MLB for 3 decades, including here, for a variety of reasons. Relationships with some of the bigger fish was one of those reasons but just like last year when the search pivoted to younger candidates there were still positives to his presence even if he didn't have a direction prior relationship.
Quote:
In comment 15430199 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
you believe reports, Sandy was not involved in any of the previous interviews so while I don't want to go back and forth on this topic, it feels like Sandy was far less involved in the search than was being reported. He (for instance) didn't meet with Scott Harris). Cohen did, directly.
This decision has always been Cohen's to make. Sandy generates the list and it's clear Cohen values his input, but this is Cohen's franchise and the decision of who to run it was always going to require an investment only he can green light (whether it was equity for Theo/Beane or a big check to lure one of these young guys away from their current situation, Stearns included).
Genuinely curious, where is the evidence that Sandy "generated the list"? I haven't ready anything suggesting how the Mets were coming up with candidates.
Who do you think is running the search if not him? Scott is on leave. Levin and Tanous are supposedly candidates. Who do you think is the point person formulating the list and presenting it to Cohen? The head of HR?
Who do you think made the decision on Rojas?
whoever the new hire is, who do you think is going to be the person to intro him and answer questions about why they chose him to the media?
I'd imagine it will be the same person who has been fielding questions on the topic for the last month and giving public comments on behalf of the franchise?
"Well, so the practical answer to that question is that a new person coming in isn’t going to want to have to deal with all those type of infrastructure issues immediately," Alderson said. "They’re going to be happy to have a functioning group of capable people who will be able to move the team during those weeks and months that they become more familiar with the operation, more familiar with the individual abilities of the front-office employees or other within the organization."
During a different answer, Alderson said "anybody's tenure with the Mets will be subject to the decision of a new head of baseball operations." It sounds as if Alderson would like to have some structure in place for the big hire, even on an interim basis. Then the new hire can evaluate the situation and make changes if necessary.
Alderson never signed on to lead baseball operations, so he said he'll be happy to turn it over to the upcoming hire. After that person takes over, Alderson said he'll be "present and interested in the baseball side, but my involvement will depend on how much this new head of baseball operations wants from me."
this is truly one of the more bizarre things to question.
Key takeaways as Sandy Alderson talks Mets president search, Luis Rojas' future and more - ( New Window )
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
he has as much experience in baseball as any executive in the sport.
for a top executive he has had very little ego and been very grounded the entire decade he's been involved with the mets - to the point that he acknowledged he may not have earned the right to be GM anymore in 2018 just a few years off the playoff runs. So I believe his countless comments in the last year that he isn't looking to remain overly involved.
he has a reputation of being able to work with and hiring other talented individuals (which he did here with Depo, JP, Tannous, Tramuta, and seemed to be on track with porter/scott).
and unlike just about anyone else Cohen could have hired Sandy had almost a decade of recent experience here with this organization. He knew all the people here inside and out.
None of that has anything to do with his prior relationship specifically with Beane or Theo (I don't believe they spoke to either last year). But yes the relationships he has from being a respected guy in MLB for 30+ years are a value too.
Theo told all teams he wasn't interested in speaking about MLB jobs last year, Beane was never an "option" he was working on that SPAC that fell apart but he was either OUT of baseball or remaining with Oakland.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
The general sentiment was yes. I believe the Mets said he had been a candidate for GM along with Porter, and then based on their relationship Porter was able to convince him to come over. It seemed like the plan was to relatively quickly promote Porter to PBO and Scott to GM assuming things were going well...which turned out to be a very bad assumption very quickly.
Quote:
Dodgers model did not include "building from within" with a bunch of long time Dodger employees. Friedman went out and poached the best of the best.
Zaidi from Oakland was considered a GENIUS
Byrnes an ex-GM brought in SD
AA formerly the Blue Jays GM
Gomes was with Friedman in TB (who hired him with the Dodgers)
Kingston was brought over from Seattle where he'd already received GM buzz
Ismael Cruz was actually head of international scouting for the Mets when he left for Toronto and finally LAD
Turnaround doesn't happen in a day but it very much involves bringing in a bunch of talented FO from other places and not a FO built of long time Mets employees.
Hires under Cohen:
Jared Porter from ARI/CHC/BOS.
Zack Scott from BOS.
Ben Zauzemer from the LAD.
it seems like a lock the new hires will be from the outside and with full autonomy to add others from the outside.
prior to Cohen I believe Sandy brought in all of Depo/Jp/Tramuta/Tannous from the outside.
this idea that Cohen isn't open to hiring from other clubs is bizarre when he's so far been blocked by other clubs from hiring people more than anyone except maybe Pat Shurmur.
One analytics hire for a team that had 3 (vs 20ish for the Yankees) given all of the talk isn’t exactly impressive. Also who exactly were they going to hire internally as their GM if they didn’t hire a Porter? They didn’t even have reasonable candidates. Who said anything about open to hiring them? They talked up following the Dodgers model but they haven’t really done much (yet) to follow this. Have you read/heard about an influx of scouting hires? Or analytics hires? These presumably were things that could have been done with or without Porter.
when porter left and Scott had to step into a bigger job I think that understandably had to get pushed to a back burner.
when porter left and Scott had to step into a bigger job I think that understandably had to get pushed to a back burner.
Scott’s forte was analytics. Whether he was given the ability to make these hires and/or was unable to do so because of Porter being fired I have no clue. Seems like only something part of the FO would be able to answer
“The reason we’re where we are there,” the official said, “is because of what they’ve done up there,” pointing to the office that houses the club’s department of analytics.
Over the previous four years, Scott had remade that department, turning an increased investment from ownership, increased autonomy from the front office and increased interest from the dugout into a baseball behemoth. Given the chance to build his own team of analysts as the vice president of research and development under Dave Dombrowski in 2015, Scott embraced every part of the challenge.
“That was really the first time I felt like I was put in a leadership position,” Scott said. “I loved it. I thought that managing people would be a strength of mine, and then I actually had a chance to show it.”
I can't find the exact quotes but from the interviews when both were hired I remember them saying the intent with Porter/Scott was that Scott was going to get to rebuild the analytics wing just like he did in Boston while Porter ran the overall front office. Remember Scott's background was Math/Science/Statistics.
Zack Scott took over the Mets’ front office in a time of turmoil. Who is he as a baseball executive? - ( New Window )