JPP & Justin Pugh

Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were.

He wasn't. He was just hurt a lot. IIRC he was hurt last year as well for AZ. And I actually liked him better at tackle than most... lol. He couldn't stay on the field for us. Not like it seems any good player can... lol [cry]

all the players that have been here and been bad or whatever circumstance the Giants presented to move someone, and then went on to still productive careers, it is more evident that NYG as an organization has been completely inept. This bullshit culture mantra has been a total farce. My God have you seen ogletree still out there making plays?

In comment 15420887 JonC said:

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Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were.

Locker room problem holy shit! That is hilarious. That is the big con job you rose colored fools throw around to justify a crappy organization.

you don't know what you're talking about.

Far from it. But, context and facts matter, and both players were deemed problems and ushered out. If they changed their stripes with other teams, so be it, but don't confuse the facts of their time with NYG. Keep it straight.

In comment 15420887 JonC said:

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Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were.

+1

and the state of our team when it came time to decide their futures? This is bizarre.

about every poor decision Gettleman has made with the roster on this thread, but I will say that his aggressive dispatch of almost every holdover from the previous regime never sat right with me. As a whole, it didn't seem all that measured or reasoned, and in some cases seemed almost vindictive.

In comment 15420900 eclipz928 said:

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about every poor decision Gettleman has made with the roster on this thread, but I will say that his aggressive dispatch of almost every holdover from the previous regime never sat right with me. As a whole, it didn't seem all that measured or reasoned, and in some cases seemed almost vindictive.

+1

Clearly remember how Pugh talked himself up, talked openly about a monster contract he deserved (but really didn't), and how it was all about him while rarely mentioned the Giants? He was either constantly under-performing or injured while still talking, and was a known locker room lawyer.

was sourced from clueless people. Thats the problem.

Anybody that has no use for JPP (for example) is lost. That one always pissed me off. You cant easily find players like him, and we still havent come close to replacing.

Its the coach’s job to manage big personalities- another reason its difficult in the NFL.

Yesterday BBI was longing for the days of..ummm....Ben McAdoo.

Today, Justin Pugh? Pugh was overdrafted, hurt all the time and loved to hear himself talk. Let’s not pretend he was part of any memorable offensive lines while here.

JPP is a personal favorite of mine and his fireworks accident played a significant role in the downfall of this franchise over the last 5+ years but let’s not act like it wasn’t time for both parties to move on.

Everybody knows you guys want your pound of flesh but stop reaching.

In comment 15420899 UConn4523 said:

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and the state of our team when it came time to decide their futures? This is bizarre.

Right? Neither were healthy or ever played. People complained about them then, and the Giants traded one and let the other go. People are living in some kind of alternate reality. Like the Macadoo thread yesterday.

In comment 15420911 KDavies said:

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In comment 15420899 UConn4523 said: Quote: and the state of our team when it came time to decide their futures? This is bizarre. Right? Neither were healthy or ever played. People complained about them then, and the Giants traded one and let the other go. People are living in some kind of alternate reality. Like the Macadoo thread yesterday.

*ever played well

in addition to Pugh/JPP.

Add in JJ/Snacks/Odell...they all had to go. That core was broken.

DG is awful - but he was right to get rid of a lot of those guys.

Sorry, but you're wrong, the info was on target. Read Chris684's post above, that's the gist of it.

In comment 15420906 JonC said:

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Clearly remember how Pugh talked himself up, talked openly about a monster contract he deserved (but really didn't), and how it was all about him while rarely mentioned the Giants? He was either constantly under-performing or injured while still talking, and was a known locker room lawyer.

I agree. And I’m not saying Pugh should be retained, but I think it is fair to peg this against DG looking back.

Pugh is playing in a top tier offense, no shit his performance looks good. He plays a role but I bet Murray helps him more than he helps Murray.

And JPP is revitalized after landing in Tampa and then getting an allstar team a year later. He'd be a fool to pack it in.

Context is everything. Pugh and JPP wouldn't be playing well on the 2021 Giants.

In comment 15420908 Chris684 said:

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Yesterday BBI was longing for the days of..ummm....Ben McAdoo. Today, Justin Pugh? Pugh was overdrafted, hurt all the time and loved to hear himself talk. Let’s not pretend he was part of any memorable offensive lines while here. JPP is a personal favorite of mine and his fireworks accident played a significant role in the downfall of this franchise over the last 5+ years but let’s not act like it wasn’t time for both parties to move on. Everybody knows you guys want your pound of flesh but stop reaching.

It's getting pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

Something is rotting people's memories.

Pugh and JPP aren't good examples to draw upon, both sides needed a fresh start, both players needed to get out from under the microscope here. Collins was bound to be overpaid and had worn out his welcome here with his mouth, much like OBJ. Personalities and agendas do clash often, it happens all the time.

The failure is DG has done little to replace many of these players.

make it stop.

In order for them to reach the next level. I wanted them to keep Pugh and JPP, but I also realized it made a lot of sense to move on from them….and it proved correct. It took them both a good amount of time to re-establish themselves.

Now the Omameh signing was horrible! I would love to know the story behind that one!

But all this BS about JPP is wrong.. yes he screwed himself up by the fireworks incident.. but since then he was putting in full effort.. I hate the fact that one of the person responsible for 2011 superbowl is being treated like a locker room problem.. the real locker room problem was how management treated the locker room and provided sub par talent around them.. If JPP had proper talent and DL rotation around him.. he would seem like a great locker room guy and you can win with him.. stop with this stupid unsubstantiated knock on JPP..

You might be right, but you'll never know. It was time for a parting, your heart is in your way.

construct a team.. Every possible locker room problem is on the Tampa bay Bucs right now along with the championship ring.. Suh, JPP, Brown.. DG is an idiot and needed an excuse.. Beat writers need something to say other than team talent and coaching sucks.. The reality is its much easier to live with JPP's malcontent than to find another DE who can stop the run and rush the passer.. and when you put talent around these players and they win.. the locker room problem goes away..

One thing I remember about Pugh ... he had a lot of bad games against the Eagles. Very bad.

how many only remember JPP when he was good, and not the flip side. Very selective memories bought by his 2011 performance down the stretch.

I don't like any of the current Giants offensive linemen either but this doesn't mean I long for the days of Justin Pugh lol

In comment 15420936 JonC said:

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You might be right, but you'll never know. It was time for a parting, your heart is in your way.

It probably is but its still better than blaming the locker room for losses.. You lose cause you suck.. cause you don't have talent.. you don't have coaching..

In comment 15420946 JonC said:

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how many only remember JPP when he was good, and not the flip side. Very selective memories bought by his 2011 performance down the stretch.

JPP is playing with better players now. When he was the best player on the field, he would have games (and stretches of games) where he was invisible.

I remember one game I went to in 2013, he was getting mauled by an offensive lineman and going absolutely nowhere the entire game.

In comment 15420946 JonC said:

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how many only remember JPP when he was good, and not the flip side. Very selective memories bought by his 2011 performance down the stretch.

he was pretty good in 2016.. he wasn't perfect HoF guy we thought we saw in 2011 but he was good afterwards.. my theory in him being bad was that he was used 95% of times.. we had no DL rotation.. DEs aren't meant to do that.. it just doesn't work..

I don't disagree, but timing and context matter, and I can tell you some players wore out their welcome during the down period. A lot of jawing after an outlier 2016 season and very little performance to match it afterwards.

I agree, the large issue is DG has not replaced these players. And there was a lot of arrogance displayed by him regarding the culture issues. None of that has aged well.

Brought in a locker room of choir boys who can’t play. You need culture but you also need talent.

In comment 15420925 JonC said:

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make it stop.

I will own up to my craziness for sure, this is were I am with this team at this stage after 30 years. But no longer am I just going to blame players as the problem. This is a clear organizational, culture and leadership problem and the players feed off of it. So, ok you know the details around the incident, but the question is as a leadership is it a people issue or design issue. And 5 years later it is the same shit.

In comment 15420960 JonC said:

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I don't disagree, but timing and context matter, and I can tell you some players wore out their welcome during the down period. A lot of jawing after an outlier 2016 season and very little performance to match it afterwards.

If you are telling me he wasn't good enough then fine.. I don't give 2 shits about jawing.. If we put better players around these guys they would stop jawing and start sacking.. problems weren't these players' locker room attitude its we sucked at acquiring talent..

I'd agree it's a collective issue and so far it's not gotten any better. Hell, we're all on here day and night complaining about the leadership, ownership, wtf are they doing, etc.

But, sometimes relationships need to end, and sometimes the aftermath is no improvement either. That's where we're at, struggling to reach the water surface.

In comment 15420898 Danny Kanell said:

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In comment 15420887 JonC said: Quote: Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were. +1

+2 I can't think of anyone who was sorry about Pugh leaving. He rarely was on the field for us, probably because he didn't want to be

No management is going to allow the inmates to run the asylum, and that was a HUGE problem as they turned against McAdoo. This town needed an enema and it got it. Now it needs another ...

I've heard the same as JonC on Pugh.

Sometimes guys need a new situation to thrive. I don't think either JPP/Pugh would have the same success here. I love JPP - especially for 2011 - but I thought it was time to move on.

I think JJ is in big trouble in terms of losing this team, something that clearly happened to McAdoo.

I do think they're a nicer bunch in that locker room than the McAdoo team, but there's a lot commonalities starting to show.

In comment 15420977 JonC said:

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I'd agree it's a collective issue and so far it's not gotten any better. Hell, we're all on here day and night complaining about the leadership, ownership, wtf are they doing, etc. But, sometimes relationships need to end, and sometimes the aftermath is no improvement either. That's where we're at, struggling to reach the water surface.

+1

was OB's first leg injury and his disconnected, narcissist personality in the aftermath with Shurmur et al.

In comment 15420983 JonC said:

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No management is going to allow the inmates to run the asylum, and that was a HUGE problem as they turned against McAdoo. This town needed an enema and it got it. Now it needs another ...

But as fans when we see this and allow management to make stupid excuses like this we should call BS.. I don't give 2 shits that Jonathan Stewart is a good cultured RB.. he was a stupid signing.. Management has been the real problem.. not JPPs attitude.. and one of them is winning SB while the other still doesn't have a job and the new management is trying to sell us that this team is one win away from winning the division..

Put me down as someone that thinks we would be better with JPP right now.. even with his locker room problem and his salary cap hit..

Pugh was performance.. If a player is under performing, let him go.. If you are making decisions based on emotions (keeping a player because he won championships or he is a locker room problem) then you are going down the wrong path..

Had to go. There is a million things you can hammer this front office for. Letting Pugh walk is not one of them.

problem wasn't getting rid of Pugh, JPP, or Collins, whatever the reason or reasons for doing so, it was not getting adequate replacements.

In comment 15420908 Chris684 said:

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Yesterday BBI was longing for the days of..ummm....Ben McAdoo. Today, Justin Pugh? Pugh was overdrafted, hurt all the time and loved to hear himself talk. Let’s not pretend he was part of any memorable offensive lines while here. JPP is a personal favorite of mine and his fireworks accident played a significant role in the downfall of this franchise over the last 5+ years but let’s not act like it wasn’t time for both parties to move on. Everybody knows you guys want your pound of flesh but stop reaching.

Good post Chris. I will nitpick, however, on "BBI" longing for the days of McAdoo. The reaction was overwhelmingly negative, and about the only thing positive some would say about him was that he knew Eli was done.

In comment 15420983 JonC said:

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No management is going to allow the inmates to run the asylum, and that was a HUGE problem as they turned against McAdoo. This town needed an enema and it got it. Now it needs another ...

Jack Napier would qualify as 'outside the organization', right?

of a much more pervasive problem, one that has not been solved.

but I think in 2017 he was clearly part of the problem, and a number of players wanted out.

Tampa's winning has more to do with the Tom Brady Effect, which no one other team including NYG has remotely replicated. There's no dancing around the fact NYG management is struggling historically in epic fashion. But, pining for JPP to still be here likely would've resulted in more of the same.

Now, it's time to make changes to try again at fixing the problems.

when he was healthy. The problem with him is he was always hurt. If you remember, that's at a time when JR had gambled on a number of FAs that were often injured and seldom saw the field. Giants needed to retool with players that spent more time on the field than on the trainer's table, and Pugh wasn't worth the gamble(particularly when you look at the $s he was seeking)

As for JPP, he was/is a great athlete who was great when he showed up to play. Problem with JPP is he only showed up every other year and on contract years (not to mention he was an idiot who blew-off half of his right hand)

correct.

I remember thinking Pugh and Richburg were going to lead the next set of great Giant offensive lines.

lol

Sounds like people forget hiw he didn't talk to the organization at all after he blew up his hand. He shut them out. Tell me that's OK for you if you were the boss.
I loved JPP but both sides needed to part ways.

becasue he was....injured.

The Cardinals gambled on a an injury prone OG, and if he remains healthy, it seems to have paid off for them. No one was pining for Pugh's return, he was labled as a bust around here (rightfully so for his first round status).

The Giants are a toxic disaster of an organization. Not just a team, but the whole damned enchilada is putrid. Son of Squint needs to go open up a law practice or something and stay out of foosball operations, while taking his nephew lil' Timmy and his brother Chris with him. Maybe they can open up a bookmaking biz like John John's pop pop did back in the 30s and buy something shiny to keep themselves busy.

These are questions they need to be asking themselves.

I don't doubt the Giants deemed PUgh a problem or any inside info, but who the fuck cares?

The 1978 Yankees HATED each other. The 2002 Giants were a locker room mess. Even the 07 Giants weren't exactly besties in there.

This is exactly the kind of shit i've been screaming about the last few years with this franchise. Worry about the fucking football talent on the field, not how they act in the locker room. This team has been populated with a bunch of nice guys, everyone says the right thing, and then they get curb stomped on Sundays. Take a guess how long the good ship lolipop stays afloat with all this losing? Want to bet the locker room of assholes that win games stays afloat longer than this mess?

Locker room problem my ass. Giants dump the baby far too often.

another one. Fuck outta here with this crap.

Pugh and JPP were both symptoms of a problem, and as Jon noted the root cause is still there today.

You could spin a wheel in that locker room and land on a jerk.

In hindsight the larger problems were Snacks, Jenkins, and OBJ. But it’s a lot easier to play the culture card on players you don’t think are any good.

At my former job I was close enough to the Beckham situation to know the Giants were well aware of how dangerous he was. And they rewarded it.

There were plenty of worse locker room and real world dudes under Coughlin. Easy guess as to why that worked.

In comment 15421124 djm said:

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I don't doubt the Giants deemed PUgh a problem or any inside info, but who the fuck cares? The 1978 Yankees HATED each other. The 2002 Giants were a locker room mess. Even the 07 Giants weren't exactly besties in there.

Uh. The difference between those teams you mentioned and the Justin Pugh years is ... Those teams won sonething.

When you're losing and you hear bitching it just makes it worse, IMO. Who cares what you have to say sort of thing?

For keeping the facts straight.

In comment 15421128 christian said:

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Pugh and JPP were both symptoms of a problem, and as Jon noted the root cause is still there today. You could spin a wheel in that locker room and land on a jerk. In hindsight the larger problems were Snacks, Jenkins, and OBJ. But it’s a lot easier to play the culture card on players you don’t think are any good. At my former job I was close enough to the Beckham situation to know the Giants were well aware of how dangerous he was. And they rewarded it. There were plenty of worse locker room and real world dudes under Coughlin. Easy guess as to why that worked.

Losing creates jerks. Watch this team erode right before our eyes. Guys like Logan Ryan won't sound so cheerful and company line-ish when it's december and the Giants are 3-12.

In comment 15420911 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15420899 UConn4523 said: Quote: and the state of our team when it came time to decide their futures? This is bizarre. Right? Neither were healthy or ever played. People complained about them then, and the Giants traded one and let the other go. People are living in some kind of alternate reality. Like the Macadoo thread yesterday.

Even So we are fans. They are the professionals, they have access to all the information and they are responsible to make the right decsisions.

It's not just JPP and Pugh

Eli Apple is still playing
Ereck FLowers is still starting
Landon Collins is still starting
Romeo Okwara has more sacks than anyone the Giants have had

etc etc

Meanwhile the Giants can't win any games

In comment 15421130 Route 9 said:

Quote:

In comment 15421124 djm said: Quote: I don't doubt the Giants deemed PUgh a problem or any inside info, but who the fuck cares? The 1978 Yankees HATED each other. The 2002 Giants were a locker room mess. Even the 07 Giants weren't exactly besties in there. Uh. The difference between those teams you mentioned and the Justin Pugh years is ... Those teams won sonething. When you're losing and you hear bitching it just makes it worse, IMO. Who cares what you have to say sort of thing?

My point is locker room harmony has always been one of the most overstated sports myths of horse shit ever parroted since media and tv could talk. It's bullshit. A made up narrative from the media and fan base that look for any kind of angle to stir shit up.

Losing creates locker room dysfunction. Winning cures all. Always has, always will.

QB controversy is another line of crap too. The two best QBs of the 20th century played on the same team and didn't hide their hate for each other. BAttle lines were drawn and the players took sides. How'd those Niners teams ever overcome such turbulence? By winning.

Ya I guess we kind of agree.

Good point. They're losers. Bye.

In comment 15421143 djm said:

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Losing creates jerks. Watch this team erode right before our eyes. Guys like Logan Ryan won't sound so cheerful and company line-ish when it's december and the Giants are 3-12.

Big distinction between waning positivity and being a jerk. Of course guys won’t be happy when the loses pile up. Completely different topic.

Coughlin was a strong leader, had the pelts, and had the balls.

Coughlin managed Toomer, Strahan, Boley, JPP, Diehl etc. to the podium. and these guys were making big real world mistakes in real life.

when some of you guys play an organized sport, let me know.

In comment 15421153 Route 9 said:

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Ya I guess we kind of agree. Good point. They're losers. Bye.

Simple as that. They suck. We are over thinking whether it's MAra, Judge or the boogeyman. It's all of them until proven otherwise. If the Giants want to win again they do everything in their power to hire the best people and players to run things. They self analyze and analyze everyone else.

Like I said, how many HCs lose miserably in one place only to win a lot somewhere else? Not many. Judge is a problem. I don't care how bad Mara or DG are, Judge aint helping. He's saying all the right things and losing.

If Jones wasn't worth the squeeze, does anyone here truly trust Judge that he would convey that to upper mgmt? Do we trust his judgement? Do we trust that this offense is helping Jones? It's HIS team. Not GArrett's. This is Judge's baby and its dying on the vine.

In comment 15421162 JonC said:

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when some of you guys play an organized sport, let me know.

Lol ok. Amazing how Dallas laps us every year in wins yet they draft and sign assholes every year. Even the Skins win more despite their issues. Same with Philly. Remember when Michael Vick was going to be a locker room cancer? I do. Then he fucked us twice in the same season.

I'm not saying you TRY and sign assholes but talent trumps locker room harmony and always has. The proof is incontrovertible. Literally, incontrovertible.

those players are WINNING elsewhere! Titles! incontrovertible.

it's the problem with keeping any of these guys that have been here for a while.

Yes that includes Barkley and Jones.

but you can't whitewash like you're trying, it is not accurate. Every team has bad apples and gets rid of them. Winning solves a lot but when you're not winning you're going to get rid of idiots who have a demonstrated tendency to derail the greater cause. Locker room lawyers tend to have a negative effect, chronic complainers and players who blow off part of their hand tend to be chronic issues. Proof is in the pudding. JPP v 2017 was not the same player as v 2011. FACTS.

Your examples, Cowboys haven't won shit since 1996, Vick won nothing in the NFL.

In comment 15421172 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 15421162 JonC said: Quote: when some of you guys play an organized sport, let me know. Lol ok. Amazing how Dallas laps us every year in wins yet they draft and sign assholes every year. Even the Skins win more despite their issues. Same with Philly. Remember when Michael Vick was going to be a locker room cancer? I do. Then he fucked us twice in the same season. I'm not saying you TRY and sign assholes but talent trumps locker room harmony and always has. The proof is incontrovertible. Literally, incontrovertible.

I think your overarching point is an interesting one - Jints Central hasn't done a good job of managing different personalities over the last decade or so. No matter what you do for a living - healthcare, software, construction, professional football - success comes down to finding talent and managing it. And being flexible enough to manage different personalities to achieve success.

At the same time, there is merit in the idea that some people just need a change of scenery - hearing different voices, different processes, etc - to get back on track.

But I think it's always healthy to look back on situations like this to see where the failures occurred and what processes can be added to enhanced better outcomes.

Lol. I wanted the Giants to sign Greg Hardy. Maybe Gruden next?

DJM you are conflating good real world dude with good locker room dude. Big difference.

A strong leader can keep the outside character flaws from permeating the workplace. Coughlin did this. Shurmur couldn't.

Take OBJ. Practice and gym rat.

His shit talking in private about the org was well known in Manahattan. He got so comfortable doing it, he did it on TV. That was poison for the other players.

Absolutely. NYG obviously has work to do in this respect, there are numerous examples to support it. I just find JPP and Pugh poor examples to refer to given what we know and saw.

that's exactly my point. JPP and the whole thing turned toxic but a new HC was coming in along with a new GM.

Whatever, my point stands. You work with the talent. You fix the issues rather than cut n run every time a talented player mouths off during a bad season.

Dallas has come one or two games away from a super bowl appearance. When they are relatively healthy, they win a lot of games. You can't condemn their whole model based on losing to Aaron Rodgers in a playoff game. That's way too easy.

The Browns signed Kareem Hunt. Known bad guy. It worked. I can all day long with this.

The Giants would rather turn their backs on a good player than even think about risking bad PR. We all know it. And it isn't working.

to the T. JR Smith was an asshole. Then he won with Lebron. Zach Randolph. Remember him? I do. HE was toxic. Then he embarked on a borderline HOF career in Memphis.

It aint the player. It's the franchise.

but JPP and Pugh are poor examples. Trust me and let it go.

In comment 15421211 djm said:

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The Giants would rather turn their backs on a good player than even think about risking bad PR. We all know it. And it isn't working.

You're dead wrong. The Giants extended OBJ when everyone in Manhattan knew he enjoyed nose candy, openly talked shit about ownership, and Shurmur had to fly to LA and ask him pretty please to tone it down.

yep.

Janoris Jenkins cut. To me, I was unpleasantly surprised that they would just cut him.

What do you think?

OB berated Shurmur and showed him up on gameday even more loudly. You could almost see Shurmur detach right then and there on the sideline. He gave up. Message not received, player traded, and THEN he was shocked they shipped him out afterwards. Zero self-awareness. Tips you off to the character of the knucklehead. Or, it should ...

Christian - unbelievable story about OBJ. Was the Shurmur LA trip after they gave him the big contract?

and doesn't reach the media, until there's no going back, and then you'll hear about it, strategically.

There will always be players you'll wish they held on to for one reason or another. JPP and Pugh are not on that list for me. YMMV

longing for the days of Justin Pugh. Now I've seen everything

In comment 15421226 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 15421211 djm said: Quote: The Giants would rather turn their backs on a good player than even think about risking bad PR. We all know it. And it isn't working. You're dead wrong. The Giants extended OBJ when everyone in Manhattan knew he enjoyed nose candy, openly talked shit about ownership, and Shurmur had to fly to LA and ask him pretty please to tone it down.

Odell posted Instagram photos in bed with a mirror with what looked to be nose candy on it. He wasn't very subtle.

Everyone seems to have a short memory. JPP had a huge cap hit and two and 1/2 fingers on one hand and appeared to be ineffective at DE. Pugh was oft injured and although was an average performer, we didn’t want to pay him large dollars to stay. He was a guy they moved from tackle to play Guard. He’s definitely matured as a player and I never thought he was that bad. If hindsight was 20/20, all teams would make perfect decisions regarding personnel and we know that’s not true.

In comment 15421226 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 15421211 djm said: Quote: The Giants would rather turn their backs on a good player than even think about risking bad PR. We all know it. And it isn't working. You're dead wrong. The Giants extended OBJ when everyone in Manhattan knew he enjoyed nose candy, openly talked shit about ownership, and Shurmur had to fly to LA and ask him pretty please to tone it down.

Well... Was he wrong on ownership?

Pugh is a decent NFL player, serviceable and pretty good when healthy. He basically wasn't ever available and when he played he was pretty solid to decent. For a guy who we took in the 1st round, that's pretty much a disaster.

foresee some of those kinds of leaks starting to come out soon from the players and their feelings about Judge. About how his practices were too hard, the laps thing was a joke, he ran the NYG like a high school program and they the guys in the locker room never really bought into it...

That's a guess - I have no inside knowledge of that what-so-ever...but would it really shock anyone?


Once that happens - it's all over for him.

I dont doubt the info you heard. What Im saying is the people that made a determination that they didnt want JPP anymore are clueless.

Pugh, good riddance.

was consistently underperforming following his big season in 2011. This compounded by always being nicked up, and coming into camp out of shape, and finally - blowing off his hand and subsequent refusal to communicate with the front office following the accident signified he needed to move on.

This organization/team is terrible right now. That doesn't mean we need to keep malcontents around because they had a good season 10 years ago and have suddenly matured on a championship team.

It's easy to buy in and work when times are good. Much harder finding people who will continue to work hard under less than ideal circumstances. Same goes for Pugh. And I liked Pugh.

Agree to disagree, I think they nailed JPP.

He was a better than average player. The issue was he was coming off 2 years of serious injury. Perfectly legit to have moved on. Credit to him that he has played 37 of last 38 games.

JPP needed to move on. I still love the player but at the time with the hand, it made sense to move on

In the grand scheme of moves, to me these were both legitimate moves.

But JPP and Pugh shouldn't be among them.

but honestly, can you blame anyone for revisiting and questioning all of Gettleman's moves at this point?

Almost everything he has touched has turned sour.

In comment 15421226 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 15421211 djm said: Quote: The Giants would rather turn their backs on a good player than even think about risking bad PR. We all know it. And it isn't working. You're dead wrong. The Giants extended OBJ when everyone in Manhattan knew he enjoyed nose candy, openly talked shit about ownership, and Shurmur had to fly to LA and ask him pretty please to tone it down.

LT liked his nose candy too. How did that work out? If an organization can't manage a guy like OBJ then that organization is doomed to failure.

In fact, I believe he has been consistently hurt so far in his Cards career and we are only 6 weeks into this season, so we will see.

JPP was a guy who sometimes gave effort and disappeared for long stretches and in big games. He always had talent - the issue is he didn’t always appear to be interested in performing at a high level.

OBJ needed to go and there is no debate that they made a great trade in his case.

Jenkins lost me when he quit on the team a game after his suspension during MacAdoo’s second season. I was surprised he was still on the team the next year. He is a loser, plain and simple.

when it comes to JPP.. because unlike others, he has real good and bad giants history.. But 2 way DE don't play 90% of the plays.. and JPP was forced to do that a lot.. which caused aches and pains which in turn makes it seem like he doesn't care or doesn't give effort..

The solution to that isn't to trade the player its to use him properly.. get proper talent around him.. because let me tell you the truth.. 2 way DEs aren't easy to replace.. live with his antics and fix other, bigger problems.. don't let emotions and locker room antics get in the way.. Bucs don't let it get in their way.. Chiefs, Pitt when Brown and Bell were there, Browns and many others..

All I ask is that we make the decision based on talent and not emotions or locker room garbage.. because its pretty much useless.. and can be easily fixed with bringing in talent..

In comment 15420908 Chris684 said:

Quote:

JPP is a personal favorite of mine and his fireworks accident played a significant role in the downfall of this franchise over the last 5+ years but let’s not act like it wasn’t time for both parties to move on.

How was it time for both parties to move on? What the hell does that even mean?

"How was it time for both parties to move on? What the hell does that even mean ". .

I don't think this is rhetorical. I believe the poor soul..
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