JPP & Justin Pugh

Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were.

He wasn't. He was just hurt a lot. IIRC he was hurt last year as well for AZ. And I actually liked him better at tackle than most... lol. He couldn't stay on the field for us. Not like it seems any good player can... lol [cry]

all the players that have been here and been bad or whatever circumstance the Giants presented to move someone, and then went on to still productive careers, it is more evident that NYG as an organization has been completely inept. This bullshit culture mantra has been a total farce. My God have you seen ogletree still out there making plays?

In comment 15420887 JonC said:

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Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were.

Locker room problem holy shit! That is hilarious. That is the big con job you rose colored fools throw around to justify a crappy organization.

you don't know what you're talking about.

Far from it. But, context and facts matter, and both players were deemed problems and ushered out. If they changed their stripes with other teams, so be it, but don't confuse the facts of their time with NYG. Keep it straight.

In comment 15420887 JonC said:

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Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were.

+1

and the state of our team when it came time to decide their futures? This is bizarre.

about every poor decision Gettleman has made with the roster on this thread, but I will say that his aggressive dispatch of almost every holdover from the previous regime never sat right with me. As a whole, it didn't seem all that measured or reasoned, and in some cases seemed almost vindictive.

In comment 15420900 eclipz928 said:

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about every poor decision Gettleman has made with the roster on this thread, but I will say that his aggressive dispatch of almost every holdover from the previous regime never sat right with me. As a whole, it didn't seem all that measured or reasoned, and in some cases seemed almost vindictive.

+1

Clearly remember how Pugh talked himself up, talked openly about a monster contract he deserved (but really didn't), and how it was all about him while rarely mentioned the Giants? He was either constantly under-performing or injured while still talking, and was a known locker room lawyer.

was sourced from clueless people. Thats the problem.

Anybody that has no use for JPP (for example) is lost. That one always pissed me off. You cant easily find players like him, and we still havent come close to replacing.

Its the coach’s job to manage big personalities- another reason its difficult in the NFL.

Yesterday BBI was longing for the days of..ummm....Ben McAdoo.

Today, Justin Pugh? Pugh was overdrafted, hurt all the time and loved to hear himself talk. Let’s not pretend he was part of any memorable offensive lines while here.

JPP is a personal favorite of mine and his fireworks accident played a significant role in the downfall of this franchise over the last 5+ years but let’s not act like it wasn’t time for both parties to move on.

Everybody knows you guys want your pound of flesh but stop reaching.

In comment 15420899 UConn4523 said:

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and the state of our team when it came time to decide their futures? This is bizarre.

Right? Neither were healthy or ever played. People complained about them then, and the Giants traded one and let the other go. People are living in some kind of alternate reality. Like the Macadoo thread yesterday.

In comment 15420911 KDavies said:

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In comment 15420899 UConn4523 said: Quote: and the state of our team when it came time to decide their futures? This is bizarre. Right? Neither were healthy or ever played. People complained about them then, and the Giants traded one and let the other go. People are living in some kind of alternate reality. Like the Macadoo thread yesterday.

*ever played well

in addition to Pugh/JPP.

Add in JJ/Snacks/Odell...they all had to go. That core was broken.

DG is awful - but he was right to get rid of a lot of those guys.

Sorry, but you're wrong, the info was on target. Read Chris684's post above, that's the gist of it.

In comment 15420906 JonC said:

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Clearly remember how Pugh talked himself up, talked openly about a monster contract he deserved (but really didn't), and how it was all about him while rarely mentioned the Giants? He was either constantly under-performing or injured while still talking, and was a known locker room lawyer.

I agree. And I’m not saying Pugh should be retained, but I think it is fair to peg this against DG looking back.

Pugh is playing in a top tier offense, no shit his performance looks good. He plays a role but I bet Murray helps him more than he helps Murray.

And JPP is revitalized after landing in Tampa and then getting an allstar team a year later. He'd be a fool to pack it in.

Context is everything. Pugh and JPP wouldn't be playing well on the 2021 Giants.

In comment 15420908 Chris684 said:

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Yesterday BBI was longing for the days of..ummm....Ben McAdoo. Today, Justin Pugh? Pugh was overdrafted, hurt all the time and loved to hear himself talk. Let’s not pretend he was part of any memorable offensive lines while here. JPP is a personal favorite of mine and his fireworks accident played a significant role in the downfall of this franchise over the last 5+ years but let’s not act like it wasn’t time for both parties to move on. Everybody knows you guys want your pound of flesh but stop reaching.

It's getting pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

Something is rotting people's memories.

Pugh and JPP aren't good examples to draw upon, both sides needed a fresh start, both players needed to get out from under the microscope here. Collins was bound to be overpaid and had worn out his welcome here with his mouth, much like OBJ. Personalities and agendas do clash often, it happens all the time.

The failure is DG has done little to replace many of these players.

make it stop.

In order for them to reach the next level. I wanted them to keep Pugh and JPP, but I also realized it made a lot of sense to move on from them….and it proved correct. It took them both a good amount of time to re-establish themselves.

Now the Omameh signing was horrible! I would love to know the story behind that one!

But all this BS about JPP is wrong.. yes he screwed himself up by the fireworks incident.. but since then he was putting in full effort.. I hate the fact that one of the person responsible for 2011 superbowl is being treated like a locker room problem.. the real locker room problem was how management treated the locker room and provided sub par talent around them.. If JPP had proper talent and DL rotation around him.. he would seem like a great locker room guy and you can win with him.. stop with this stupid unsubstantiated knock on JPP..

You might be right, but you'll never know. It was time for a parting, your heart is in your way.

construct a team.. Every possible locker room problem is on the Tampa bay Bucs right now along with the championship ring.. Suh, JPP, Brown.. DG is an idiot and needed an excuse.. Beat writers need something to say other than team talent and coaching sucks.. The reality is its much easier to live with JPP's malcontent than to find another DE who can stop the run and rush the passer.. and when you put talent around these players and they win.. the locker room problem goes away..

One thing I remember about Pugh ... he had a lot of bad games against the Eagles. Very bad.

how many only remember JPP when he was good, and not the flip side. Very selective memories bought by his 2011 performance down the stretch.

I don't like any of the current Giants offensive linemen either but this doesn't mean I long for the days of Justin Pugh lol

In comment 15420936 JonC said:

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You might be right, but you'll never know. It was time for a parting, your heart is in your way.

It probably is but its still better than blaming the locker room for losses.. You lose cause you suck.. cause you don't have talent.. you don't have coaching..

In comment 15420946 JonC said:

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how many only remember JPP when he was good, and not the flip side. Very selective memories bought by his 2011 performance down the stretch.

JPP is playing with better players now. When he was the best player on the field, he would have games (and stretches of games) where he was invisible.

I remember one game I went to in 2013, he was getting mauled by an offensive lineman and going absolutely nowhere the entire game.

In comment 15420946 JonC said:

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how many only remember JPP when he was good, and not the flip side. Very selective memories bought by his 2011 performance down the stretch.

he was pretty good in 2016.. he wasn't perfect HoF guy we thought we saw in 2011 but he was good afterwards.. my theory in him being bad was that he was used 95% of times.. we had no DL rotation.. DEs aren't meant to do that.. it just doesn't work..

I don't disagree, but timing and context matter, and I can tell you some players wore out their welcome during the down period. A lot of jawing after an outlier 2016 season and very little performance to match it afterwards.

I agree, the large issue is DG has not replaced these players. And there was a lot of arrogance displayed by him regarding the culture issues. None of that has aged well.

Brought in a locker room of choir boys who can’t play. You need culture but you also need talent.

In comment 15420925 JonC said:

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make it stop.

I will own up to my craziness for sure, this is were I am with this team at this stage after 30 years. But no longer am I just going to blame players as the problem. This is a clear organizational, culture and leadership problem and the players feed off of it. So, ok you know the details around the incident, but the question is as a leadership is it a people issue or design issue. And 5 years later it is the same shit.

In comment 15420960 JonC said:

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I don't disagree, but timing and context matter, and I can tell you some players wore out their welcome during the down period. A lot of jawing after an outlier 2016 season and very little performance to match it afterwards.

If you are telling me he wasn't good enough then fine.. I don't give 2 shits about jawing.. If we put better players around these guys they would stop jawing and start sacking.. problems weren't these players' locker room attitude its we sucked at acquiring talent..

I'd agree it's a collective issue and so far it's not gotten any better. Hell, we're all on here day and night complaining about the leadership, ownership, wtf are they doing, etc.

But, sometimes relationships need to end, and sometimes the aftermath is no improvement either. That's where we're at, struggling to reach the water surface.

In comment 15420898 Danny Kanell said:

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In comment 15420887 JonC said: Quote: Both players were deemed part of the locker room problem, and both were struggling to stay healthy. Don't whitewash the facts, they are what they were. +1

+2 I can't think of anyone who was sorry about Pugh leaving. He rarely was on the field for us, probably because he didn't want to be

No management is going to allow the inmates to run the asylum, and that was a HUGE problem as they turned against McAdoo. This town needed an enema and it got it. Now it needs another ...

I've heard the same as JonC on Pugh.

Sometimes guys need a new situation to thrive. I don't think either JPP/Pugh would have the same success here. I love JPP - especially for 2011 - but I thought it was time to move on.

I think JJ is in big trouble in terms of losing this team, something that clearly happened to McAdoo.

I do think they're a nicer bunch in that locker room than the McAdoo team, but there's a lot commonalities starting to show.

In comment 15420977 JonC said:

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I'd agree it's a collective issue and so far it's not gotten any better. Hell, we're all on here day and night complaining about the leadership, ownership, wtf are they doing, etc. But, sometimes relationships need to end, and sometimes the aftermath is no improvement either. That's where we're at, struggling to reach the water surface.

+1

was OB's first leg injury and his disconnected, narcissist personality in the aftermath with Shurmur et al.

In comment 15420983 JonC said:

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No management is going to allow the inmates to run the asylum, and that was a HUGE problem as they turned against McAdoo. This town needed an enema and it got it. Now it needs another ...

But as fans when we see this and allow management to make stupid excuses like this we should call BS.. I don't give 2 shits that Jonathan Stewart is a good cultured RB.. he was a stupid signing.. Management has been the real problem.. not JPPs attitude.. and one of them is winning SB while the other still doesn't have a job and the new management is trying to sell us that this team is one win away from winning the division..

Put me down as someone that thinks we would be better with JPP right now.. even with his locker room problem and his salary cap hit..

Pugh was performance.. If a player is under performing, let him go.. If you are making decisions based on emotions (keeping a player because he won championships or he is a locker room problem) then you are going down the wrong path..

Had to go. There is a million things you can hammer this front office for. Letting Pugh walk is not one of them.

problem wasn't getting rid of Pugh, JPP, or Collins, whatever the reason or reasons for doing so, it was not getting adequate replacements.

In comment 15420908 Chris684 said:

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Yesterday BBI was longing for the days of..ummm....Ben McAdoo. Today, Justin Pugh? Pugh was overdrafted, hurt all the time and loved to hear himself talk. Let’s not pretend he was part of any memorable offensive lines while here. JPP is a personal favorite of mine and his fireworks accident played a significant role in the downfall of this franchise over the last 5+ years but let’s not act like it wasn’t time for both parties to move on. Everybody knows you guys want your pound of flesh but stop reaching.

Good post Chris. I will nitpick, however, on "BBI" longing for the days of McAdoo. The reaction was overwhelmingly negative, and about the only thing positive some would say about him was that he knew Eli was done.

In comment 15420983 JonC said:

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No management is going to allow the inmates to run the asylum, and that was a HUGE problem as they turned against McAdoo. This town needed an enema and it got it. Now it needs another ...

Jack Napier would qualify as 'outside the organization', right?