Why is Graham lining up Peppers in coverage against Cooper Kupp? Graham must know that Peppers doesn’t do well in coverage, yet he puts him up against one of the more elusive receivers in the NFL.
Doesn't do well in coverage is an understatement.
This says Graham is desperate/overthinking things to try different looks, and only being outmatched on gameday.
Anybody that was wondering whether Peppers should be extended has gotten that answered loud and clear these first two months of the season...
Well, it probably is an understatement. There's also the decision to have Crowder lined up wide against Henderson on the play where Henderson caught a touchdown from Stafford right in the corner of the end zone (and our customary end of the first half touchdown allowed).
Yep. How many opposing running backs have made these linebackers
or that guy" crowd, how many wins have these guys been a part of? So what difference have they made? We are either completely remaking the roster or we aren't. The Cap is such that we will be forced to keep some guys a tad longer- Bradberry, Jackson, Golladay but anyone else should be ok with going.
I like Lawrence but he hasn't made a single bit of difference in our overall play or record. He is a scheme specific player but without the players behind him he just doesn't affect the game much.
Andrew Whitworth doesn’t get half the attention that he should. 16 seasons as a starting left tackle and soon-to-be 40 years old. I have all the respect in the world for Tom Brady and what he does at his age but I think what Whitworth is doing at a much more physically demanding position belongs in the same conversation.
But I would like to add what a kick in the balls it was to see him still playing great when in 2017 Reese passed on signing him because he was "too old."
Whitworth and Ramcyk could’ve been the tackles on this team for the last 5 years.
There have been plenty of opportunities to fix this abortion of an OL over the last decade, but the org is terrible at evaluating talent in the trenches. Let’s just keep drafting and buying WRs and CBs.
Patrick Graham would be hired away as HC. Sheesh, fooled again. Remember how much he praised Lorenzo Carter at the end of preseason. WTF was that. Carter is horrendous. The whole defense is horrendous. No, the whole team is horrendous.
I don’t see how trading one of our best young players
DLs in a 3-4 are hard to evaluate because they contribute in unflashy ways and look invisible if their teammates can’t make plays. Trading a big player with his pedigree for peanuts (a 4th rounder) is unwise.
I don’t see it as a given at all that we don’t resign him. Way too early.
Btw, he also has a 5th year option decision coming up.
Oh, and if the Giants apply the option to DJ and then don’t for Lawrence, I am done with this team. Seriously.
solid players who have a future on the team. Not for a 4th or lower round pick. Lower round picks are not all that valuable. Meanwhile, you're creating another hole.
If you see a cap casualty coming up, sure. Get what you can.
This is not necessarily make or break season for Jones. College watchers are indicating this is not the year to want a QB, so don't look for one in the draft. IMO, going one more year with Jones is no different than picking up some other wannabe whose future is most likely behind him. All this season says about Jones is whether to pass or jump IF a viable alternative is available. It's a moot point if there's no alternative. Plus, with Toney, Golladay, Slayton, and Barkley likely to be available down the stretch, Shep is NOT going to be the difference in being able to evaluate Jones.
Good QBs can be found in bad QB drafts - that's worth keeping in mind (although it requires some skill in scouting). 2005 was considered a weak QB draft, especially on the heels of the historic 2004 QB class. In fact, the #1 overall pick was Alex Smith, who was good but not great for most of his career.
There was a HOF QB in that class, though: Aaron Rodgers.
It's definitely better to be looking for a QB in a strong QB class, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to find a really good one in what is considered a weak QB class.
Agreed, WAY too early to be closing the books on college QB's. And to fkap's post, the issue isn't necessarily playing Jones next year, it is do we exercise his option this spring. He's going to have to prove he's worth ~$23M.
or that guy" crowd, how many wins have these guys been a part of? So what difference have they made? We are either completely remaking the roster or we aren't. The Cap is such that we will be forced to keep some guys a tad longer- Bradberry, Jackson, Golladay but anyone else should be ok with going.
I like Lawrence but he hasn't made a single bit of difference in our overall play or record. He is a scheme specific player but without the players behind him he just doesn't affect the game much.
Put it this way: do you have an adequate replacement in mind who will be able to do his job and win? That's how we've gotten into trouble with the edge rushers after trading away JPP.
is like watching the Twilight Zone. Jones performance was really bad. He may not be it but I really about the lack of ability to upgrade the position. They won't be able to afford a veteran better than him, and it's questionable if the upcoming draft has a clear upgrade that's worth using all of their draft capital to get, a la Manning, since they'll probably squeak out a couple more wins out of no where.
Will they be able to identify a new GM that can make the tough decisions to get the franchise back on track? Probably more likely they'll be bad long enough to be able to draft Arch Manning in about 5 or 6 years.
I would not trade Lawrence or Bradberry.
The Giants do not need more holes to fill.
Lawrence is a 4-3 tackle. The Giants have 5 picks in the first three rounds. Two of those picks should be defensive ends to convert to a 4-3 with Williams and Lawrence in the interior or two could be linebackers/edge if they want to stay with a 3/4
I would not trade Lawrence or Bradberry.
The Giants do not need more holes to fill.
Lawrence is a 4-3 tackle. The Giants have 5 picks in the first three rounds. Two of those picks should be defensive ends to convert to a 4-3 with Williams and Lawrence in the interior or two could be linebackers/edge if they want to stay with a 3/4
Williams is expensive for a 4-3 interior DT. The best bet would be to make him a DE in the 4-3.
I thought it was silly to mention we drafted Obj over Donald. It was absolutely the right choice at the time. We needed a receiver and they drafted arguably the best WR in the league until he was injured/traded. He performed so well, they made him the highest paid receiver in the nfl.
In hindsight you obviously would take Donald over Obj, but for 3-4 seasons Obj was the better pick for this team.
a 3rd (late 3erd if a contender). The Giants made a HUGE mistake drafting him. As Sy pointed out, on a contender his value is far greater. On a team that was not good and was missing tyhe horses on the defensive side, a guy who plays DT without the skills of Donald is more luxury than foundation, more stout than game changer. We wasted a 1st round pick there when we need OL or playmakers on either side of the ball.
How do you BECOME a good team UNLESS you draft players like DL? Otherwise failure to select well is a self fulfilling prophecy.
You don't just throw the baby out with the bath water. Pick the guys who you can win with and build around them. For sure Thomas, Toney, Dex, probably Barkley (since he's here already), and a few others. There are 22 starters out there. Just because the overall team stinks doesn't mean every single player is bad.
a 3rd (late 3erd if a contender). The Giants made a HUGE mistake drafting him. As Sy pointed out, on a contender his value is far greater. On a team that was not good and was missing tyhe horses on the defensive side, a guy who plays DT without the skills of Donald is more luxury than foundation, more stout than game changer. We wasted a 1st round pick there when we need OL or playmakers on either side of the ball.
How do you BECOME a good team UNLESS you draft players like DL? Otherwise failure to select well is a self fulfilling prophecy.
We can draft solid 2nd/3rd round players in the 1st round all day. And those would be good foundational players, and also - simultaneously - be poor draft values.
I would not trade Lawrence or Bradberry.
The Giants do not need more holes to fill.
Lawrence is a 4-3 tackle. The Giants have 5 picks in the first three rounds. Two of those picks should be defensive ends to convert to a 4-3 with Williams and Lawrence in the interior or two could be linebackers/edge if they want to stay with a 3/4
Williams is expensive for a 4-3 interior DT. The best bet would be to make him a DE in the 4-3.
Williams doesn't have the speed to be a 4-3 end. I suggested that shortly after I arrived here, wasn't a good idea.
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
RE: RE: RE: Agreed on Lawrence being a good player
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
All good points, but what can you get for him? I'd want a second round pick, which I assume nobody would give. I'm not trading him for a day three pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Agreed on Lawrence being a good player
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
All good points, but what can you get for him? I'd want a second round pick, which I assume nobody would give. I'm not trading him for a day three pick.
Why not? Assuming the decision's been made internally not to re-sign him, isn't it better to get something for him instead of eventually letting him walk?
I feel that way about every player on the roster.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Agreed on Lawrence being a good player
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
All good points, but what can you get for him? I'd want a second round pick, which I assume nobody would give. I'm not trading him for a day three pick.
Sure you do. Don’t keep thinking it’s a bad deal giving up a first rounder for a third rounder several years later. Recoup something and move on.
Find assets worth keeping or discard. Lawrence has little special or he is taking too long to show it...
that we need a massive rebuild and if I had to guess, there's nobody on this roster who will ever win a playoff game in a Giants uniform.
But, I don't think you can just trade everybody in the NFL for 2 main reasons: 1) You need some actual NFL players to be in place when you bring in young guys or else they can't be developed and evaluated, 2) The rosters are so big that it's very hard to start from scratch and bring in 20-30 good/adequate players in a short period when you're starting from scratch.
It would be an interesting experiment, but it's not like the NBA where you just get a few core guys then supplement them with a few vets.
Quote:
Why is Graham lining up Peppers in coverage against Cooper Kupp? Graham must know that Peppers doesn’t do well in coverage, yet he puts him up against one of the more elusive receivers in the NFL.
Doesn't do well in coverage is an understatement.
This says Graham is desperate/overthinking things to try different looks, and only being outmatched on gameday.
Anybody that was wondering whether Peppers should be extended has gotten that answered loud and clear these first two months of the season...
Well, it probably is an understatement. There's also the decision to have Crowder lined up wide against Henderson on the play where Henderson caught a touchdown from Stafford right in the corner of the end zone (and our customary end of the first half touchdown allowed).
Basically picking on everybody in the Back 7. Linebackers, Corners and Safeties...all not holding up, at all.
I like Lawrence but he hasn't made a single bit of difference in our overall play or record. He is a scheme specific player but without the players behind him he just doesn't affect the game much.
Quote:
Andrew Whitworth doesn’t get half the attention that he should. 16 seasons as a starting left tackle and soon-to-be 40 years old. I have all the respect in the world for Tom Brady and what he does at his age but I think what Whitworth is doing at a much more physically demanding position belongs in the same conversation.
But I would like to add what a kick in the balls it was to see him still playing great when in 2017 Reese passed on signing him because he was "too old."
Whitworth and Ramcyk could’ve been the tackles on this team for the last 5 years.
There have been plenty of opportunities to fix this abortion of an OL over the last decade, but the org is terrible at evaluating talent in the trenches. Let’s just keep drafting and buying WRs and CBs.
So you want to keep him around, thus building around him for a year or so and lose him outright with no compensation. Got it.
I don’t see it as a given at all that we don’t resign him. Way too early.
Btw, he also has a 5th year option decision coming up.
Oh, and if the Giants apply the option to DJ and then don’t for Lawrence, I am done with this team. Seriously.
Quote:
solid players who have a future on the team. Not for a 4th or lower round pick. Lower round picks are not all that valuable. Meanwhile, you're creating another hole.
If you see a cap casualty coming up, sure. Get what you can.
This is not necessarily make or break season for Jones. College watchers are indicating this is not the year to want a QB, so don't look for one in the draft. IMO, going one more year with Jones is no different than picking up some other wannabe whose future is most likely behind him. All this season says about Jones is whether to pass or jump IF a viable alternative is available. It's a moot point if there's no alternative. Plus, with Toney, Golladay, Slayton, and Barkley likely to be available down the stretch, Shep is NOT going to be the difference in being able to evaluate Jones.
Good QBs can be found in bad QB drafts - that's worth keeping in mind (although it requires some skill in scouting). 2005 was considered a weak QB draft, especially on the heels of the historic 2004 QB class. In fact, the #1 overall pick was Alex Smith, who was good but not great for most of his career.
There was a HOF QB in that class, though: Aaron Rodgers.
It's definitely better to be looking for a QB in a strong QB class, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to find a really good one in what is considered a weak QB class.
Agreed, WAY too early to be closing the books on college QB's. And to fkap's post, the issue isn't necessarily playing Jones next year, it is do we exercise his option this spring. He's going to have to prove he's worth ~$23M.
I like Lawrence but he hasn't made a single bit of difference in our overall play or record. He is a scheme specific player but without the players behind him he just doesn't affect the game much.
Put it this way: do you have an adequate replacement in mind who will be able to do his job and win? That's how we've gotten into trouble with the edge rushers after trading away JPP.
Will they be able to identify a new GM that can make the tough decisions to get the franchise back on track? Probably more likely they'll be bad long enough to be able to draft Arch Manning in about 5 or 6 years.
Quote:
But he really has been invisible lately, and I already knew Ximines and Carter wouldn't produce anything. Very depressing.
At some point, it has to be the scouting, right? It feels like we haven't drafted an impact rusher/end in about 15 years.
No, it could also be that they are not developing the players.
The Giants do not need more holes to fill.
Lawrence is a 4-3 tackle. The Giants have 5 picks in the first three rounds. Two of those picks should be defensive ends to convert to a 4-3 with Williams and Lawrence in the interior or two could be linebackers/edge if they want to stay with a 3/4
The Giants do not need more holes to fill.
Lawrence is a 4-3 tackle. The Giants have 5 picks in the first three rounds. Two of those picks should be defensive ends to convert to a 4-3 with Williams and Lawrence in the interior or two could be linebackers/edge if they want to stay with a 3/4
Williams is expensive for a 4-3 interior DT. The best bet would be to make him a DE in the 4-3.
In hindsight you obviously would take Donald over Obj, but for 3-4 seasons Obj was the better pick for this team.
How do you BECOME a good team UNLESS you draft players like DL? Otherwise failure to select well is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Quote:
a 3rd (late 3erd if a contender). The Giants made a HUGE mistake drafting him. As Sy pointed out, on a contender his value is far greater. On a team that was not good and was missing tyhe horses on the defensive side, a guy who plays DT without the skills of Donald is more luxury than foundation, more stout than game changer. We wasted a 1st round pick there when we need OL or playmakers on either side of the ball.
How do you BECOME a good team UNLESS you draft players like DL? Otherwise failure to select well is a self fulfilling prophecy.
We can draft solid 2nd/3rd round players in the 1st round all day. And those would be good foundational players, and also - simultaneously - be poor draft values.
Is that complicated?
Quote:
I would not trade Lawrence or Bradberry.
The Giants do not need more holes to fill.
Lawrence is a 4-3 tackle. The Giants have 5 picks in the first three rounds. Two of those picks should be defensive ends to convert to a 4-3 with Williams and Lawrence in the interior or two could be linebackers/edge if they want to stay with a 3/4
Williams is expensive for a 4-3 interior DT. The best bet would be to make him a DE in the 4-3.
Williams doesn't have the speed to be a 4-3 end. I suggested that shortly after I arrived here, wasn't a good idea.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
Quote:
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
Quote:
In comment 15423126 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
All good points, but what can you get for him? I'd want a second round pick, which I assume nobody would give. I'm not trading him for a day three pick.
Quote:
In comment 15423140 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15423126 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
All good points, but what can you get for him? I'd want a second round pick, which I assume nobody would give. I'm not trading him for a day three pick.
Why not? Assuming the decision's been made internally not to re-sign him, isn't it better to get something for him instead of eventually letting him walk?
I feel that way about every player on the roster.
Quote:
In comment 15423140 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15423126 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
When NYG is a good team, however...at the very soonest, his rookie contract will be over.
Then you're talking Linval Joseph money again.
Not worth it.
+1
Timelines and schedules matter.
And Lawrence brings value THIS YEAR to a contender because they won't need to pay him big money or commit to a long contract for 2.5 seasons. That is a long time for a current contender.
All good points, but what can you get for him? I'd want a second round pick, which I assume nobody would give. I'm not trading him for a day three pick.
Sure you do. Don’t keep thinking it’s a bad deal giving up a first rounder for a third rounder several years later. Recoup something and move on.
Find assets worth keeping or discard. Lawrence has little special or he is taking too long to show it...
But, I don't think you can just trade everybody in the NFL for 2 main reasons: 1) You need some actual NFL players to be in place when you bring in young guys or else they can't be developed and evaluated, 2) The rosters are so big that it's very hard to start from scratch and bring in 20-30 good/adequate players in a short period when you're starting from scratch.
It would be an interesting experiment, but it's not like the NBA where you just get a few core guys then supplement them with a few vets.