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Mortgaging the future: Adoree Jackson

cosmicj : 10/19/2021 10:38 am
Riffing of this paragraph from Sy:

"Adoree’ Jackson continues to put up poor performance after poor performance. What an awful signing that was a clear attempt at throwing an expensive band aid on a problem this front office did not properly forecast. He was attacked on 3rd down, allowing 3 conversions and allowed a touchdown.”

Cutting Jackson next offseason would result in an $18.5mm dead cap hit ($3mm more than if they kept him).

Jackson is probably untradeable because his 2022 base is $10mm, meaning there is likely to be very little interest from other teams at that level.

So you probably can’t trade him, cutting him would help in 2023 but present an additional burden for 2022, and he has been playing poorly.

I could write something similar about Shepard, who at least is playing well. Martinez’s contract similarly has been structured to create room in 2021 but escalates to $14mm in 2022. Every time I look at one of the Giants’ big contract players, everything is backloaded. DG and Abrams have constructed a contract structure for a team in the middle of a championship push.

This team is in a straitjacket.
Bradberry will cost $22 million next season  
jeff57 : 10/19/2021 10:40 am : link
But his dead cap hit is less than $10 million.
We've got to accept the fact that 2022 will  
Section331 : 10/19/2021 10:42 am : link
be a lost year, so we should pile as much cap hurt as we can on it. Cutting AJ will hurt, but not as much as watching him try to cover someone. I would try to get out of as many bad contracts as I can next year and clear cap for 2023.
So Martinez will be recovering from a ligament tear  
cosmicj : 10/19/2021 10:43 am : link
in 2022, trying to regain his form, with a big ($14mm) cap hit in the last year of his contract. The new GM may very well opt to release him.

I missed the news item but Martinez was restructured to push even more of his cap hit into 2022.

The pain for the Giants has just begun. This will likely end up as one of the very worst 2-season stretches (2021 and 22) in this franchise’s long history. The team sucks and we may need to execute a salary cap purge.

Maybe Judge needs to start interviewing for college jobs. Who’d want to coach this mess next season?
RE: We've got to accept the fact that 2022 will  
jeff57 : 10/19/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15421069 Section331 said:
Quote:
be a lost year, so we should pile as much cap hurt as we can on it. Cutting AJ will hurt, but not as much as watching him try to cover someone. I would try to get out of as many bad contracts as I can next year and clear cap for 2023.


They can't afford to cut him. How much they play him is another matter.
Martinez's dead cap hit  
jeff57 : 10/19/2021 10:45 am : link
Is a very manageable $5.5 million.
Im limited in my understanding of the more nuanced aspects of the cap  
j_rud : 10/19/2021 10:46 am : link
but if a new GM (hopefully someone from the outside who is identified after a legitimate search) thinks cutting them is the way to go then dead money be damned.

Theres no quick fix here. This team might win 3 or 4 games this year, but its possible that to truly begin to turn it around they only win 1 or 2 next year.
Remember when the 2000 Redskins signed like $100mm of offseason  
cosmicj : 10/19/2021 10:51 am : link
contracts and went 8-8 and we were all laughing at them? "Off-season champs" Well, at least they won 8 games.

The Giants have executed a similar spending spree and have 1 win to show for it. (And it would be zero if a Saints player had recovered Saquon’s fumble.)

I think I’m coming to the position that the entire management and coaching staff can go. An amateur couldn’t f*** things up this badly.
Let the new GM  
thedogfather : 10/19/2021 10:51 am : link
cut these losses and let's move on. I would rather have some undrafted FAs play and play with purpose than Bradberry, Ryan and Jackson. All 3, who by the way, QUIT in that last game and the tape doesn't lie.
Jackson signing was an interesting one. Not sure if he was  
NYGgolfer : 10/19/2021 11:05 am : link
ever expected to become available by the Titans, but the Giants acted like he was a must-have once he did. His contract was surprising when it was inked, but now it looks ridiculous.

Realize the front office is putting loads of picks and dollars into trying to stabilize that secondary. But unfortunately they seem as successful at actually doing it as they are in fixing the Offensive Line.

Hopefully Jackson's early play is still a function of his injury this summer. And a little more time solves for that and his lack of confidence.
RE: We've got to accept the fact that 2022 will  
AcidTest : 10/19/2021 11:08 am : link
In comment 15421069 Section331 said:
Quote:
be a lost year, so we should pile as much cap hurt as we can on it. Cutting AJ will hurt, but not as much as watching him try to cover someone. I would try to get out of as many bad contracts as I can next year and clear cap for 2023.


^This. We should try and limit as much of the cap damage as possible from all these bad signings to 2022.
It's crazy  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 10/19/2021 11:19 am : link
to read some of the above comments about punting another future year due to cap constraints/purging when that was an excuse for DG's performance 2-4 years ago in purging the Reese cap. What a sad time.
RE: It's crazy  
Mike from Ohio : 10/19/2021 11:23 am : link
In comment 15421134 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
to read some of the above comments about punting another future year due to cap constraints/purging when that was an excuse for DG's performance 2-4 years ago in purging the Reese cap. What a sad time.


This is what happens when you make poor hires. Hiring Gettleman was the mistake and it set the franchise back a number of years.
Add Logan Ryan to that...list. $88M!!!!  
richinpa : 10/19/2021 11:27 am : link
From over the cap next year its abysmal. Williams gets huge numbers which has to be redone. These 5 are not worth the $ at all.

Jackson, Bradberry , Martinez and even Logan Ryan gets 14M!! Really?

This D is horrible and costs us $88M today for next year for those 5 players. WTH!!!

Williams-27M
Bradberry-21M
Martinez 14m
Ryan 12+M
Jackson 15M

We are stuck it seems next year with this albatross that Abrams/DG put forward thinking this could be a competitive team.

The D has no excuses except for Martinez (which is huge)
I Believe  
Bernie : 10/19/2021 11:29 am : link
some of the pushing of money into the future was driven by an expected explosion in the salary cap with all of the media contracts coming up for renegotiation. Again, most concerning is the evaluation of the players who are getting these contracts. To be fair, last year nobody on this board was disappointed with Bradberry or Martinez. Thus far Jackson has been a bust. Sadly I was warned by a USC alum that he was over rated.
Going to ignore the fact  
Giants73 : 10/19/2021 11:39 am : link
That Ryan and Jackson are completely on Judge and Graham.
A. Jackson  
Dnew15 : 10/19/2021 11:40 am : link
will be hurt and gone for the season any game now...

Mark.It.Down
Adoree Jackson was a guy who was worth  
Section331 : 10/19/2021 11:41 am : link
a flyer. He had a good rookie year, but was pretty bad after that. Sure, take a chance that he regains his rookie year form, but that contract was simply highway robbery. Who else was bidding on him?

And then doubling down by restructuring guys like Bradberry, Ryan, and Martinez, pushing more money onto next year's cap. Just awful, awful, awful cap management. But some here will say "you can always move money around". Well, this is what happens when you do.
RE: Going to ignore the fact  
Section331 : 10/19/2021 11:43 am : link
In comment 15421170 Giants73 said:
Quote:
That Ryan and Jackson are completely on Judge and Graham.


Ryan maybe, given the NE connection, but why are you so sure about Jackson? You seem to want to give DG a pass on everything. As I've said before, Judge may have wanted these guys, but DG negotiated the deals. The money is on him, full stop.
Some of these signings have strong ties  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/19/2021 11:46 am : link
to Judge and Graham. Rudolph I am not sure but I would think Garrett was pushing for a TE who could block.

I always circle back to the same thing. The drafting has to improve to get out of this cycle. They have to figure out how to better identify traits that are translating to NFL play at priority positions that impact the physical nature of the game.

Stop with the quick fixes.

I wouldn't do any restructuring next year, particularly on the named  
Mellowmood92 : 10/19/2021 11:50 am : link
players. We can't continue to backload contracts during a complete re-build. The Jackson and Williams contracts will haunt us for the next two season. I realize the impacts of a player don't always show up on a stat sheet, but Williams - aside from in a blow-out loss, has been invisible this year.

As someone pointed out, Gettleman assembled this team as if we were the Bills, Bucs, Chiefs or Cowboys.

Not to completely change the subject, but I think it's relevant due to cap issues - the biggest "tragedy" in all of this is, I at least, have no idea what we have at QB entering the end of his rookie contract. I am not a huge Jones defender or hater, but even with the amount of skill added on offense - the combination of what appears to be poor coaching / scheming, personnel, OL changes and injuries, I have no idea who he is.

I don't THINK he is the type of QB to elevate a team like the top 10 QB's in the league do. Does that mean he doesn't deserve a new contract? Not necessarily. But can we defend throwing 20-30M a year, on average, for likely 5-6 years at him?

Such a freaking disaster.

I put Rudolph on O’Brien  
cosmicj : 10/19/2021 11:53 am : link
He was a divisional rival of the Lions. Same as Ragland which is an OK signing.
Mellow  
cosmicj : 10/19/2021 11:57 am : link
For me, Jones’ first half performance v Dallas was one of the most disappointing outings in recent history, which is saying something. Jones follows up a brilliant win and some pretty good performances before then with a dud, an absolute and total dud. He did that with a healthy offense playing against a flawed defensive unit.

I mean you’re right that we don’t have a final grade but it’s late in the semester and it sure isn’t a B+ or A- :)
RE: Mellow  
Mellowmood92 : 10/19/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15421215 cosmicj said:
Quote:
For me, Jones’ first half performance v Dallas was one of the most disappointing outings in recent history, which is saying something. Jones follows up a brilliant win and some pretty good performances before then with a dud, an absolute and total dud. He did that with a healthy offense playing against a flawed defensive unit.

I mean you’re right that we don’t have a final grade but it’s late in the semester and it sure isn’t a B+ or A- :)


That is a good point, we have seen a decent amount from him. And what is consistent is his inconsistency (and inability to stay healthy). It's tough to wrap my head around a restart at QB.
Jones’ talent is almost besides the point  
cosmicj : 10/19/2021 12:11 pm : link
This team is headed towards a total overhaul and you don’t do that with an expensive vet QB unless he is truly special.

The state of the franchise raises the level Jones needs to reach to be part of the solution. He ain’t close.
Giants 2022 cap situation  
The Jake : 10/19/2021 12:16 pm : link
looks like a parody of what actual cap management should look like.
Jackson is a better player then he’s currently showing.....  
Simms11 : 10/19/2021 12:29 pm : link
We were all excited to get Jackson to add to the secondary. Somethings rotten in Denmark however. Is it communication, scheme, lack of safety help or just poor tackling? Maybe his buddy Logan Ryan could talk with him, he’s the leader of the secondary!
Giants need a front office scoreboard  
ghost718 : 10/19/2021 12:32 pm : link
Not to boast or brag,just so people know who's responsible for what.

It will come in handy when a fire breaks out in the kitchen,and you look around and see 12 different cooks.
RE: Adoree Jackson was a guy who was worth  
Platos : 10/19/2021 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15421178 Section331 said:
Quote:
a flyer. He had a good rookie year, but was pretty bad after that. Sure, take a chance that he regains his rookie year form, but that contract was simply highway robbery. Who else was bidding on him?


i thought it was going to be overkill thinking we'd get a Corner in the first but the eagles and some other teams where looking at him as well.
RE: Im limited in my understanding of the more nuanced aspects of the cap  
Pepe LePugh : 10/19/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15421079 j_rud said:
Quote:
but if a new GM (hopefully someone from the outside who is identified after a legitimate search) thinks cutting them is the way to go then dead money be damned.

Theres no quick fix here. This team might win 3 or 4 games this year, but its possible that to truly begin to turn it around they only win 1 or 2 next year.

I’m with you. I look at cap hits (not savings in many cases) for cutting these high priced players, plus dead money, and wonder who can we restructure to afford the cuts. Looks to me like realistically we’re stuck until 2023 unless current players (overall) step it up. And 2022 draft is a success.
RE: Some of these signings have strong ties  
Section331 : 10/19/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15421186 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
to Judge and Graham. Rudolph I am not sure but I would think Garrett was pushing for a TE who could block.

I always circle back to the same thing. The drafting has to improve to get out of this cycle. They have to figure out how to better identify traits that are translating to NFL play at priority positions that impact the physical nature of the game.

Stop with the quick fixes.


A TE that could block wouldn't be Rudolph. That has never been his forte. Even if Garrett wanted Rudolph, which is understandable, Garrett loves reliable pass catching TE's, DG decided to guarantee Rudolph's money even AFTER finding out about the foot injury.
RE: Jackson is a better player then he’s currently showing.....  
Section331 : 10/19/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15421308 Simms11 said:
Quote:
We were all excited to get Jackson to add to the secondary. Somethings rotten in Denmark however. Is it communication, scheme, lack of safety help or just poor tackling? Maybe his buddy Logan Ryan could talk with him, he’s the leader of the secondary!


I disagree that we were "all" excited, there were more than a few of us who thought the contract was ridiculous. I said in the spring exactly what I've said now, he was worth a flyer, but his track record was really poor after a good rookie year.

Then we had some BBI personnel experts calling him the 5th best CB in the league. Based on what I have no idea.
I hated the signing  
JonC : 10/19/2021 12:47 pm : link
I'm a big fan of the Titans personnel choices, and letting him go was a red flag for me. He's a better player than he's showing, but he's really struggling like the rest.
I didn't hate it at the time  
Dnew15 : 10/19/2021 1:07 pm : link
it was a logical signing.

Giants had a clear hole on the opposite side of Bradberry and they thought that Jackson was a good ying to Bradberry's yang.

THey were just wrong.
RE: Jones’ talent is almost besides the point  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/19/2021 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15421257 cosmicj said:
Quote:
This team is headed towards a total overhaul and you don’t do that with an expensive vet QB unless he is truly special.

The state of the franchise raises the level Jones needs to reach to be part of the solution. He ain’t close.


I am with you on this and now we have the uncertainty of the front office and coaching staff.
RE: I didn't hate it at the time  
Jimmy Googs : 10/19/2021 1:20 pm : link
In comment 15421435 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
it was a logical signing.

Giants had a clear hole on the opposite side of Bradberry and they thought that Jackson was a good ying to Bradberry's yang.

THey were just wrong.


I didn't know much about Jackson, but the signing was so odd. He has really struggled, so this is just another poor player evaluation by the FO heading south fast...
RE: I didn't hate it at the time  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/19/2021 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15421435 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
it was a logical signing.

Giants had a clear hole on the opposite side of Bradberry and they thought that Jackson was a good ying to Bradberry's yang.

THey were just wrong.
after watching Jackson in College I was pleased with the signing. something is wrong the whole secondary is jacked up and last season we seemed to be one player away (Jackson) from being a dominating secondary wtf happened?
Let's also remember this signing  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/19/2021 1:36 pm : link
was the result of a failed pick in Baker. Big FA money is usually to overcome poor drafting. It's a horrible cycle and the only way out is to drafted consistently better.
......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/19/2021 1:51 pm : link
I don't understand the Logan Ryan contract.

Didn't they originally sign him off the trash heap, in September of the year?

Seems like they were bidding against themselves with his contract.
Hated hated this signing  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/19/2021 1:53 pm : link
Just an awful signing
#2 corner could have been filled with a draft pick if they knew  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/19/2021 1:58 pm : link
how to draft a cornerback.

it never made sense to have a defensive secondary full of free agent mercenaries.
Am I remembering this wrong  
Dnew15 : 10/19/2021 1:58 pm : link
or was it rumored that Jackson was signing with Philly before the Giants swooped (for lack of a better word) in and got him?
RE: I hated the signing  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/19/2021 3:44 pm : link
In comment 15421375 JonC said:
Quote:
I'm a big fan of the Titans personnel choices, and letting him go was a red flag for me. He's a better player than he's showing, but he's really struggling like the rest.


Jason McCourty was option 1 (Patriots connection); Giants made an offer and couldn't close him. McCourty chose the Dolphins (with Flores and a similar Pats connection) because he wanted to play safety and now that's backfired because he's barely playing.

It then also backfired on the Giants because they went and spent so much more on Jackson and he's been a non-entity.
RE: RE: I hated the signing  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/19/2021 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15421712 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 15421375 JonC said:


Quote:


I'm a big fan of the Titans personnel choices, and letting him go was a red flag for me. He's a better player than he's showing, but he's really struggling like the rest.



Jason McCourty was option 1 (Patriots connection); Giants made an offer and couldn't close him. McCourty chose the Dolphins (with Flores and a similar Pats connection) because he wanted to play safety and now that's backfired because he's barely playing.

It then also backfired on the Giants because they went and spent so much more on Jackson and he's been a non-entity.


This makes me believe even more that Judge has been very involved in putting together the roster.
RE: RE: I hated the signing  
JonC : 10/19/2021 3:51 pm : link
In comment 15421712 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 15421375 JonC said:


Quote:


I'm a big fan of the Titans personnel choices, and letting him go was a red flag for me. He's a better player than he's showing, but he's really struggling like the rest.



Jason McCourty was option 1 (Patriots connection); Giants made an offer and couldn't close him. McCourty chose the Dolphins (with Flores and a similar Pats connection) because he wanted to play safety and now that's backfired because he's barely playing.

It then also backfired on the Giants because they went and spent so much more on Jackson and he's been a non-entity.


At one point there were whispers AJ was getting offers at $9M per, which I think was BS. Then, the Giants go big and dumb. smh
RE: RE: RE: I hated the signing  
darren in pdx : 10/19/2021 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15421725 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 15421712 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


In comment 15421375 JonC said:


Quote:


I'm a big fan of the Titans personnel choices, and letting him go was a red flag for me. He's a better player than he's showing, but he's really struggling like the rest.



Jason McCourty was option 1 (Patriots connection); Giants made an offer and couldn't close him. McCourty chose the Dolphins (with Flores and a similar Pats connection) because he wanted to play safety and now that's backfired because he's barely playing.

It then also backfired on the Giants because they went and spent so much more on Jackson and he's been a non-entity.



This makes me believe even more that Judge has been very involved in putting together the roster.


Why would you not believe that? The Giants have openly stated multiple times that all decisions are made together, it's on the coaching staff as much as it's on DG. It's why it's pointless when people try to put the blame on just one person, this has been a total team failure from top to bottom. Everyone is to blame.
RE: Jones’ talent is almost besides the point  
Red Right Hand : 10/19/2021 4:39 pm : link
In comment 15421257 cosmicj said:
Quote:
This team is headed towards a total overhaul and you don’t do that with an expensive vet QB unless he is truly special.

The state of the franchise raises the level Jones needs to reach to be part of the solution. He ain’t close.

Probably closest to the truth.
RE: RE: RE: I hated the signing  
Section331 : 10/19/2021 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15421728 JonC said:
Quote:

At one point there were whispers AJ was getting offers at $9M per, which I think was BS. Then, the Giants go big and dumb. smh


Even if true, teams offering AJ $9M, DG - here, I'll give you $13M!
Gettleman has been BAD  
Shock-Man : 10/19/2021 9:35 pm : link
But Abrams has been just as bad and managed to live through multiple regimes. The next few years are going to be really bleak unless the Giants draft really well.
Well this was a depressing realization  
Dave in PA : 10/19/2021 9:40 pm : link
There’s just about zero chance this team isn’t a flaming dumpster fire again next year. No possible hope until at least 2023 when the QB situation will also be a disaster.
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