Coming off a disastrous performance in week 6 where Daniel Jones got a PFF rating of (35.1) for the game,
here are Jones' latest rankings among starting QBs in the NFL (from pro-football-reference.com):
Y/A: 18th
QBR: 22nd
QB Rating 26th
TD% 32nd
sack% 13th
Please note that in terms of sack % Jones is actually just above league average. This number makes one wonder 'is Jones facing inordinate pressure this season'? Glad you asked.
NY Giants Pressure % which is times pressured per dropback is 21.6% - which is 9th best in the NFL just behind the Buffalo Bills. So it looks like a myth that Jones faces more pressure than most starting QBs.
Finally, and maybe most shocking:
Red Zone Passing
Cmp% Inside 20: 27%
Cmp% Inside 10: 14%
Both numbers are the worst among starting QBs in the NFL.
His future for me right now is unknown. He has tremendous running ability and has made some high quality throws. He's also hampered by all of our injuries, drops, and wretched OL. But he still stares down receivers, and is beginning to look like a guy who is more of an advanced game manager than a leader who compensate for the shortcomings of his team. But as I said, any final judgment right now is extremely premature.
When you have opinions sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong. Williams has played better than I expected and I admit when I am wrong. I disliked the Engram pick since Day 1 and I was right about that.
I am willing to change my view as more information becomes available. But that doesn’t mean I need to wait 5 years to form an opinion.
Jones has been largely mediocre to poor with occasional bouts of excellent play. There is no consistency. That isn’t a franchise QB in my opinion. If he suddenly goes off and plays excellent the rest of the season I will change my opinion because I will have different facts upon which it is based.
The people who are frustrating are those that not only stubbornly cling to an opinion despite all evidence, but then start changing the evidence to support the continuation of their opinion.
The fact is there is not that much difference between Josh Allan missing an easy TD yesterday and Jones being timid about throwing into tight windows in the red zone. Jones still not looking off backs and getting picked and Josh allan's ints. Jones running for like an 80 yard gain and Allan avoiding a sack and scrambling around and throwing for a big gain. And maybe there is -- you really don't have options.... except Glennon!
I didn't hear you discussing Justin Herbert yesterday. Maybe that's because he had a terrible game, which young QBs tend to do.
I'll bitch if we draft another quarterback as shitty as Jones. Definitely.
I don't know what Herbert's game on Sunday has to do with Jones being what he is, but whatever.
Ok, Jimmy Garropolo is under contract and in fact playing pretty well. The 49ers have zero interest in Jones. Which is surprising because Jones according to you is as good as Josh Allen.
Quote:
seen plenty enough of the NFL that people making these grand statements week after week, whether good or bad, is completely and utterly the exact opposite of what you want to do when evaluating a player. You guys did the same thing to Andrew Thomas and look what happened. You guys did the same thing to Leonard Williams. You guys probably thought Phil Simms was a terrible quarterback too. Oh let me guess - you knew he was going to turn into something right? Simms was having 20 INT seasons well into his 6th and 7th year in the pros.
When you have opinions sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong. Williams has played better than I expected and I admit when I am wrong. I disliked the Engram pick since Day 1 and I was right about that.
I am willing to change my view as more information becomes available. But that doesn’t mean I need to wait 5 years to form an opinion.
Jones has been largely mediocre to poor with occasional bouts of excellent play. There is no consistency. That isn’t a franchise QB in my opinion. If he suddenly goes off and plays excellent the rest of the season I will change my opinion because I will have different facts upon which it is based.
The people who are frustrating are those that not only stubbornly cling to an opinion despite all evidence, but then start changing the evidence to support the continuation of their opinion.
You couldn't be more correct on that last statement.
Ok, Jimmy Garropolo is under contract and in fact playing pretty well. The 49ers have zero interest in Jones. Which is surprising because Jones according to you is as good as Josh Allen.
I was being sarcastic. The point is you really don't have options; unless you want to trade Jones for 6th ; start Glennon ; and draft another qb.
But again, how many times can I repeat that? At what point is it just noise leading to a pissing match? Its annoying, and these threads don't provoke much thought which is why participation is typically low, or in a mocking manner. They are essentially 4-5 people agreeing with each other and fighting anyone that take the bait. This is BBI in a nutshell unless its an NFT.
And after the New Orleans game it was the exact opposite, with the same 4-5 posters telling everyone Jones is clearly the answer. The problem here is that many don’t see their bias for what it is - bias
Quote:
I don’t know where to start…
Ok, Jimmy Garropolo is under contract and in fact playing pretty well. The 49ers have zero interest in Jones. Which is surprising because Jones according to you is as good as Josh Allen.
I was being sarcastic. The point is you really don't have options; unless you want to trade Jones for 6th ; start Glennon ; and draft another qb.
That's a fine option. That's the smart option.
Quote:
In comment 15421462 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I don’t know where to start…
Ok, Jimmy Garropolo is under contract and in fact playing pretty well. The 49ers have zero interest in Jones. Which is surprising because Jones according to you is as good as Josh Allen.
I was being sarcastic. The point is you really don't have options; unless you want to trade Jones for 6th ; start Glennon ; and draft another qb.
That's a fine option. That's the smart option.
Maybe we could get Trubisky?
Skinner report - ( New Window )
Mike none of that matters because a decent QB can overcome all of that and lead the team to victory against any foe. Sarcasm off.
Look at the language you're using.
"Jones isn't the problem with this team."
I'm seeing that type of faint praise everywhere. It's pathetic. You don't even believe in him.
Soon he's going to settle into a career backup role elsewhere in the league. Nothing wrong with that. He can go and not be the problem somewhere else.
I thought the pass blocking against ATL was fine. I don't know how people thought Jones was 'good' that game.
The TD production is so abysmal.
Two drives ended prematurely due to the line mistakes.
1) Grady Jarrett slipped thru Bredeson and Price (who fell) and sacked Jones. And now, that isn't a coverage sack, it was abysmal.
2) Price had an early snap that Jones wasn't prepared for and Jones was a split second late reacting, so they lost yardage on that and that was a critical moment in the drive. They didn't recover from it.
So yes, they had egregious errors.
In comment 15421382 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
.
Well now that you say it's over, it's over.
Just revert to his post where he says the Giants would have been fine if they had signed Jacoby Brissett or Marcus Mariota. Those guys would put NYG over the top! I can't get enough of it.
Quote:
In comment 15421470 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15421462 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I don’t know where to start…
Ok, Jimmy Garropolo is under contract and in fact playing pretty well. The 49ers have zero interest in Jones. Which is surprising because Jones according to you is as good as Josh Allen.
I was being sarcastic. The point is you really don't have options; unless you want to trade Jones for 6th ; start Glennon ; and draft another qb.
That's a fine option. That's the smart option.
Maybe we could get Trubisky?
You would be hard-pressed to find a QB metric where Jones outshines Trubisky.
Quote:
I don't think the line has been as good as the numbers above suggest but I don't think it's the abomination some make it out to be (at least on pass blocking).
I thought the pass blocking against ATL was fine. I don't know how people thought Jones was 'good' that game.
The TD production is so abysmal.
Two drives ended prematurely due to the line mistakes.
1) Grady Jarrett slipped thru Bredeson and Price (who fell) and sacked Jones. And now, that isn't a coverage sack, it was abysmal.
2) Price had an early snap that Jones wasn't prepared for and Jones was a split second late reacting, so they lost yardage on that and that was a critical moment in the drive. They didn't recover from it.
So yes, they had egregious errors.
In comment 15421382 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15421345 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
Well now that you say it's over, it's over.
Just revert to his post where he says the Giants would have been fine if they had signed Jacoby Brissett or Marcus Mariota. Those guys would put NYG over the top! I can't get enough of it.
You left out Trubisky, you can't leave out Trubisky.
Quote:
In comment 15421477 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15421470 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15421462 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I don’t know where to start…
Ok, Jimmy Garropolo is under contract and in fact playing pretty well. The 49ers have zero interest in Jones. Which is surprising because Jones according to you is as good as Josh Allen.
I was being sarcastic. The point is you really don't have options; unless you want to trade Jones for 6th ; start Glennon ; and draft another qb.
That's a fine option. That's the smart option.
Maybe we could get Trubisky?
You would be hard-pressed to find a QB metric where Jones outshines Trubisky.
LOL, metric, what about actually watching them both play. I have a client who was actually on the Bears for a couple of years in the 90s and he still pays close attention to the team and goes to the games when he can get to Chicago. i told him about the famous Trubisky statement and he responded " drugs are a terrble thing"
For me - love the kid, but he doesn’t have ‘it’. Rooting for him to prove me wrong but don’t think that will happen. Let the year play out and see where we stand then.
The reality is this is the NFL (FA/Cap/depth issues) not college. I believe Jones can have success with a very good team around him. That is great if the team was mostly assembled and he was playing early in his first contract.
We are now passed that point imv. He only gets more expensive and it will be even harder on a second contract. I don't think he has shown enough to even consider that but he has the rest of the year. I do believe the Giants have not supported him as the should of.
I think this is mostly right. In order to optimize the ability Jones has, it's going to take a lot of investments on the offensive side of the ball (which we tried this off-season). Because Jones is a ultra-dependent QB at this point. And that's hard to reconcile with the 6th pick in the draft.
It was like that with Eli towards the end, btw. But at least he had proven that he had the gift to lift the players around him prior to getting to that stage.
Lets see what he can do with no OL and all his playmakers out with injury. Good thing we didn't trade for Brady because he would suck with this burden. We'd be cutting him.
In comment 15421335 Section331 said:
2 of them were the 2nd overall pick in the draft, unless of course you are saying we should go get them now to improve the team which is kind of funny,
Quote:
I ask how good of a team need around your QB to win games.
The reality is this is the NFL (FA/Cap/depth issues) not college. I believe Jones can have success with a very good team around him. That is great if the team was mostly assembled and he was playing early in his first contract.
We are now passed that point imv. He only gets more expensive and it will be even harder on a second contract. I don't think he has shown enough to even consider that but he has the rest of the year. I do believe the Giants have not supported him as the should of.
I think this is mostly right. In order to optimize the ability Jones has, it's going to take a lot of investments on the offensive side of the ball (which we tried this off-season). Because Jones is a ultra-dependent QB at this point. And that's hard to reconcile with the 6th pick in the draft.
It was like that with Eli towards the end, btw. But at least he had proven that he had the gift to lift the players around him prior to getting to that stage.
I don't think Jones is anything like Eli. Eli needed a very good OL and running game. He had exceptional understanding of defenses and almost always had the Giants in the right play. He threw a exceptional post ball and was a assassin on the back shoulder. Oh he also always was available to take the ball.
He could make do with average TE's and pretty good WR's. If he had a elite WR with the OL the Giants would have won a lot more games, probably a couple more divisions and one more run at a trophy. But......
With all of his flaws and unknowns, do people think he is worth 25 million against the cap? Because that's what his fifth year option will cost (approximately based on a value of 23 mil for 2018 QBs). The decision on a 5th year is made this offseason.
That's just the fifth year option, which is likely to be below AAV on a second contract, which means his cost will be even higher in future year.
The only thing Jones and Eli have in common is that last one.
[quote
I don't think Jones is anything like Eli. Eli needed a very good OL and running game. He had exceptional understanding of defenses and almost always had the Giants in the right play. He threw a exceptional post ball and was a assassin on the back shoulder. Oh he also always was available to take the ball.
He could make do with average TE's and pretty good WR's. If he had a elite WR with the OL the Giants would have won a lot more games, probably a couple more divisions and one more run at a trophy. But...... [/quote]
I didn't say Jones was. I said at the end of Eli's run, it was clear he needed more parts.
Quote:
I don't think the line has been as good as the numbers above suggest but I don't think it's the abomination some make it out to be (at least on pass blocking).
I thought the pass blocking against ATL was fine. I don't know how people thought Jones was 'good' that game.
The TD production is so abysmal.
Two drives ended prematurely due to the line mistakes.
1) Grady Jarrett slipped thru Bredeson and Price (who fell) and sacked Jones. And now, that isn't a coverage sack, it was abysmal.
2) Price had an early snap that Jones wasn't prepared for and Jones was a split second late reacting, so they lost yardage on that and that was a critical moment in the drive. They didn't recover from it.
So yes, they had egregious errors.
In comment 15421382 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15421345 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
Well now that you say it's over, it's over.
Just revert to his post where he says the Giants would have been fine if they had signed Jacoby Brissett or Marcus Mariota. Those guys would put NYG over the top! I can't get enough of it.
Toth, thanks for the response - my view is that OL across the league has massively deteriorated significantly since 2011. I see those types of plays you mention across the league from other teams. I don't even think the line is 'good' - I think it's probably still below average. I just don't think it's unmanageable.
With all of his flaws and unknowns, do people think he is worth 25 million against the cap? Because that's what his fifth year option will cost (approximately based on a value of 23 mil for 2018 QBs). The decision on a 5th year is made this offseason.
That's just the fifth year option, which is likely to be below AAV on a second contract, which means his cost will be even higher in future year.
I don't know how anyone can say yes to this.
With all of his flaws and unknowns, do people think he is worth 25 million against the cap? Because that's what his fifth year option will cost (approximately based on a value of 23 mil for 2018 QBs). The decision on a 5th year is made this offseason.
That's just the fifth year option, which is likely to be below AAV on a second contract, which means his cost will be even higher in future year.
That seems high to me. I would do everything possible to avoid that situation, including starting a 3rd round pick if need be.
Quote:
Jones is in his 3rd year, which means we can't really judge his play in a vacuum, as contract decisions will soon have to be made.
With all of his flaws and unknowns, do people think he is worth 25 million against the cap? Because that's what his fifth year option will cost (approximately based on a value of 23 mil for 2018 QBs). The decision on a 5th year is made this offseason.
That's just the fifth year option, which is likely to be below AAV on a second contract, which means his cost will be even higher in future year.
That seems high to me. I would do everything possible to avoid that situation, including starting a 3rd round pick if need be.
I agree. If our franchise guy isn't in this draft or the next, I would rather put resources into building out the team for the eventual QB of the future, rather than on a Jones second contract.
It isn't 1983 any more, you don't have 6 or 7 years to evaluate your QB. The fact remains, 20 of his last 22 starts have been average to poor. He has the rest of this season to show he can be an effective starter, and if not, the Giants have a decision to make on whether they guarantee his 5th year.
If you look at his per game averages, which is the exact opposite of making judgements week after week, he is strikingly similar to Blake Bortles. And if you took Bortles per game at this point in Jones's career, they would look much better. That ain't gonna fly.
You complain about naysayers having already made their mind up, but reread your quote. "Never will be". That is simply absurd for a guy who has not shown he is a legitimate NFL starter. Look, if he turns it around and plays as well as he did v NO and WFT, I'm all in, bring him back, guarantee his option year. But I'm the one who's already made his mind up.
Quote:
Jones is in his 3rd year, which means we can't really judge his play in a vacuum, as contract decisions will soon have to be made.
With all of his flaws and unknowns, do people think he is worth 25 million against the cap? Because that's what his fifth year option will cost (approximately based on a value of 23 mil for 2018 QBs). The decision on a 5th year is made this offseason.
That's just the fifth year option, which is likely to be below AAV on a second contract, which means his cost will be even higher in future year.
I don't know how anyone can say yes to this.
They don't have to say yes to this until the offseason. Hopefully They can get a fairly healthy offense back and can make the best possible decision by then because it is going to be a big one and we don't even know who is going to decide this.
Most Giants fans see the total picture with Jones...he's average at best. The fanboys see 1 or 2 good throws, or one good half, and act like that's who Jones is, or who he can become.
Falco, Trubisky, Ponder, etc. all made good throws and had spurts of good play...but they weren't NFL starters.
If this organization give Jones a 2nd contract, really even a 5th year option, we haven't hit rock bottom.
I didn't hear you discussing Justin Herbert yesterday. Maybe that's because he had a terrible game, which young QBs tend to do.
Ah the fake fan line. The go to when you guys know you’re wrong and won’t admit it.
You want to compare that to the first 32 games of Eli’s career, be my guest.
Again....Look at the team Eli was playing on those first 32 games! THEY WERE INFINITELY MORE TALENTED AND UNDER TOM COUGHLIN. That's not an apples to apples comparison. Sorry to make it tough for you!
This isnt tough for me at all. I know what i'm seeing, you can continue to make excuses for Daniel Jones. I'm fairly confident that in 3 years he'll be a backup on another team who occasionally comes in and does well. But he's not going to end up with a winning record, he's not going to go the playoffs. He is what he is. He's an average at best guy who flashes at times, but he's not a franchise QB. He doesnt make the players around him better (like Eli did)
He flounders when things around him are not perfect.
and my argument about Eli making those around him better, OBJ had 44 TDs with Eli throwing him the ball, all which occured in the later half of Eli's career as you point out had no talent around him.
Since OBJ left he hes 7 TDs
Oh and our current superstar WR has zero TDs
I didn't hear you discussing Justin Herbert yesterday. Maybe that's because he had a terrible game, which young QBs tend to do.
As if the problem with Jones is one bad game. Good grief.
Don't think it's a myth when its predetermined to get the ball out in 2 seconds to a designated player.
The issue is when he has to scan the field for longer patterns.
Then he's toast (at least was on Sunday).
Lets see what he can do with no OL and all his playmakers out with injury. Good thing we didn't trade for Brady because he would suck with this burden. We'd be cutting him.
Look at the above stats, the pressure rate on Jones is pretty low. Enough with the excuses, at some point, he has to produce with some kind of consistency. We'll be in year 5, and you guys will still be crowing about his player of the week award v NO. Mitch Trubisky won a POTW after a 400 yard, 6 TD performance, how did he work out? Bortles won a few.
Newsflash, most highly drafted QB's are drafted by bad teams. That's the way it works. It doesn't excuse them for extended poor play.
Agreed, that's where they should be headed.
And I'd probably rather have DJ next year on his final year than a retread like Geno Smith or whoever else you can name.
Heck, if we're going to lose let's lose big and get a higher draft choice.....
Who wants to go 7-10 with a scrub?
Ratings drop
Details at 11…
Honestly, obsessively Che king ratings week to week is like checking your stock portfolio every day. There’s no point. The question is where is he trending overall and should we keep him, and you won’t know that really until the end of the year.
Quote:
how many ways can one person say the same thing? It’s a BBI staple. Any guesses on the title of the next thread?
So posting the objective stats of the QB is some sin around here? Sorry objective stats upset you so much.
You know there s no one here on Bbi that s going to have any say in Jones’ future with the team , right?
Your persistence in this matter leads me to believe you might be confused about that, or is it just that important for you to be right?
The offense was dominant? They scored 21 in regulation. That is below average for an NFL offense in 2021. Their best games on offense are average, at best, compared to the rest of the league