Coming off a disastrous performance in week 6 where Daniel Jones got a PFF rating of (35.1) for the game,
here are Jones' latest rankings among starting QBs in the NFL (from pro-football-reference.com):
Y/A: 18th
QBR: 22nd
QB Rating 26th
TD% 32nd
sack% 13th
Please note that in terms of sack % Jones is actually just above league average. This number makes one wonder 'is Jones facing inordinate pressure this season'? Glad you asked.
NY Giants Pressure % which is times pressured per dropback is 21.6% - which is 9th best in the NFL just behind the Buffalo Bills. So it looks like a myth that Jones faces more pressure than most starting QBs.
Finally, and maybe most shocking:
Red Zone Passing
Cmp% Inside 20: 27%
Cmp% Inside 10: 14%
Both numbers are the worst among starting QBs in the NFL.
The question then is assuming that the Giants at some point sooner than later turn things around and align all those things is Jones good enough to lead a team to a championship win? I admit that I don't know, but there is no way anyone else here knows that he can't either.
For curiosity I looked up the last 15 QB's that have managed to win at least one Super Bowl. Four won it in their second season which is tremendous, but realistically also means they were drafted into a situation were things were beginning to align. But even with those four achieving it in only their second season the average for all fifteen is almost the sixth season, with some great ones being some of the longest with Peyton Manning in his 9th season, and Elway winning his first in his 15th! Jones is only in his third season on a team where nothing has aligned for the better.
I'm not trying to compare Jones to any of these guys, but I don't think anyone can say he couldn't be a winning QB if he is quarterbacking for a team that puts it all together either.
I'm a life long Giant fan, I root for the guys wearing Blue and to someone that has been watching the NFL for well over fifty years, right now I don't see clear evidence as Jones being the problem. It doesn't mean he is the answer, but for crying out loud some of you seem totally invested in it being impossible that he could possibly ever be the answer.
Lets see how it all plays out and what happens, that's half the fun of being a fan!
Here is the list of QB's in case anyone's interested:
Tom Brady – 2
Patrick Mahomes- 3
Nicl Foles - 6
Peyton Manning – 9
Russell Wilson – 2
Joe Flacco – 5
Eli Manning -4
Aaron Rodgers -6
Drew Bress – 9
Ben Roethlisberger -2
Brad Johnson -10
Trent Dilfer -7
Kurt warner -2
John Elway -15
Troy Aikman -4
Total of 86 for average of 5.73
When Jones plays well in New Orleans, people can't post enough about how awesome he was and how is finally emerging.
When Jones plays poorly like he did last week, it is all "Dude, why do you keep talking about the QB? It's weird."
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In comment 15421329 UConn4523 said:
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how many ways can one person say the same thing? It’s a BBI staple. Any guesses on the title of the next thread?
So posting the objective stats of the QB is some sin around here? Sorry objective stats upset you so much.
You know there s no one here on Bbi that s going to have any say in Jones’ future with the team , right?
Your persistence in this matter leads me to believe you might be confused about that, or is it just that important for you to be right?
There are literally people on this thread saying Jones may be the future of this team. People post this nonsense every day. I don't know why you have a problem with me posting the stats on our QB, on a NY Giants message board. Have you considered the possibility that you are too sensitive to the subject?
The question then is assuming that the Giants at some point sooner than later turn things around and align all those things is Jones good enough to lead a team to a championship win? I admit that I don't know, but there is no way anyone else here knows that he can't either.
For curiosity I looked up the last 15 QB's that have managed to win at least one Super Bowl. Four won it in their second season which is tremendous, but realistically also means they were drafted into a situation were things were beginning to align. But even with those four achieving it in only their second season the average for all fifteen is almost the sixth season, with some great ones being some of the longest with Peyton Manning in his 9th season, and Elway winning his first in his 15th! Jones is only in his third season on a team where nothing has aligned for the better.
I'm not trying to compare Jones to any of these guys, but I don't think anyone can say he couldn't be a winning QB if he is quarterbacking for a team that puts it all together either.
I'm a life long Giant fan, I root for the guys wearing Blue and to someone that has been watching the NFL for well over fifty years, right now I don't see clear evidence as Jones being the problem. It doesn't mean he is the answer, but for crying out loud some of you seem totally invested in it being impossible that he could possibly ever be the answer.
Lets see how it all plays out and what happens, that's half the fun of being a fan!
Here is the list of QB's in case anyone's interested:
Tom Brady – 2
Patrick Mahomes- 3
Nicl Foles - 6
Peyton Manning – 9
Russell Wilson – 2
Joe Flacco – 5
Eli Manning -4
Aaron Rodgers -6
Drew Bress – 9
Ben Roethlisberger -2
Brad Johnson -10
Trent Dilfer -7
Kurt warner -2
John Elway -15
Troy Aikman -4
Total of 86 for average of 5.73
I appreciate your long, thoughtful post. I appreciate that you are an ardent Giants fan. I too have been a football fan for over 50 years and a Giants fan for more than 40 years. But, respectfully, your data about number of years to win a Super Bowl is just noise.
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Terps, you'll continue to bitch and moan about everything until the Giants start winning. I get it. Jones isn't the problem with this team. Never has been, never will be.
Look at the language you're using.
"Jones isn't the problem with this team."
I'm seeing that type of faint praise everywhere. It's pathetic. You don't even believe in him.
Soon he's going to settle into a career backup role elsewhere in the league. Nothing wrong with that. He can go and not be the problem somewhere else.
Truth.
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In comment 15421334 Producer said:
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In comment 15421329 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how many ways can one person say the same thing? It’s a BBI staple. Any guesses on the title of the next thread?
So posting the objective stats of the QB is some sin around here? Sorry objective stats upset you so much.
You know there s no one here on Bbi that s going to have any say in Jones’ future with the team , right?
Your persistence in this matter leads me to believe you might be confused about that, or is it just that important for you to be right?
There are literally people on this thread saying Jones may be the future of this team. People post this nonsense every day. I don't know why you have a problem with me posting the stats on our QB, on a NY Giants message board. Have you considered the possibility that you are too sensitive to the subject?
No I haven’t considered that. I think you understand my pt, It s not the content of your post , it s the quantity of your posts on the same thing.
I have engaged your pt of view on the matter, it s what we do here. But I must admit your persistence has worn me down on the topic.
I like Daniel Jones, I enjoy watching him play, I root very hard for his success, and I see enough Phil Simms in him that I am not yet ready to close the book. For some reason you feel the need for me and others of shared view to come off that stance.;I can not think of any other logical explanation for the aforementioned persistence.
I think your criticism of Jones is often done in a vacuum, that s what I think, nothing you can write will change that
If the Giants decide to move on from Daniel, then I will
Your opinion on the matter has been duly noted You should try to keep in mind that opinions are not facts.
In reality, this might be the most talented group of receivers in Giants history and the OL is top ten in pass pro
Injuries have no doubt hurt but ultimately the problem is Jones locking unto receivers and holding the ball way too long and poor pocket awareness.
In other words, DJ is the number one problem on offense. He does do good things as well but if he does not improve his weaknesses, he will not be a starting QB much longer
Dilfer and Johnson played on all time defensive teams and did not have big salaries against the cap.
Manning and Elway were all time greats. Both probably should have won earlier with better teams. They truly carried their franchise for many years.
I normally treat Brady as just different and don’t include him to support a theory for various reasons.
Eli and Ben were true FC QB’s and I don’t think Jones is close to either. Interestingly these two both also won on a second contract which is rare.
I don’t think DB was breaking the bank on the first SB like years later.
Russel Wilson is no where close to Winning another. His first was with a elite D and great running game.
I am coming to the conclusion it has to be a rare talent to give that second contract. The only way a very good one wins is if the team is able to consistently draft well to replace talented players you lose. Even then those teams have flaws and lack quality depth.
An outstanding example is the 2017 Eagles. 1st contract QB with a veteran backup. They had the best OL and running game in the league with a very good D. It certainly helped they had the easiest NFC playoff opponents I’ve seen.
I think the Giants are better served building a better team and getting another rookie when opportunity presents . Do not force the pick.
So who were you a fan of for the other 10 years and tell us more about the switch
In reality, this might be the most talented group of receivers in Giants history and the OL is top ten in pass pro
Injuries have no doubt hurt but ultimately the problem is Jones locking unto receivers and holding the ball way too long and poor pocket awareness.
In other words, DJ is the number one problem on offense. He does do good things as well but if he does not improve his weaknesses, he will not be a starting QB much longer
Had Jones played with, Golladay, Toney, Shepherd and Barkley on the field at the same time, for more than a game or two, your pt would be more relevant.
Actually with those guys, with Ross for Shepherd, offense looked pretty nice.
So who were you a fan of for the other 10 years and tell us more about the switch
Sure..
I'm 56. I vaguely remember the Jets winning the Super Bowl. I started to be fascinated by football when I was 6 or 7 and remember seeing the Rams play the 49ers on TV and I remember watching a bit of the Dolphins vs the Vikings (SB 8) on TV which was during the day!
My father was a New York sports fan, so he never rooted against any New York teams like so many NYers who pick a side. His first love was the Yankees. Period and end of story. He grew up near Yankee Stadium and used to cut school and go the stadium to watch Joe Dimaggio. We were a baseball family. But he also loved and followed closely the Knicks and Rangers. And as I said he always rooted for all NY teams to win. For some reason he wasn't a diehard NY Giants fan. he liked them, he rooted for them to win, but he preferred the Jets. As a kid he onc told me he liked the New York Yankees of the AAFC. But he would watch all the Giants games and cheer them on. We watched all the Giants games together, in NY at the time you got the early game, usually Giants, and a Jets game, often the late game and one other late, nationally televised game. We would watch all of it. We were a sports family.
My dad took me to two NFL games in the 70s. The first game, a family friend had tickets to the Jets vs Bills, Shea Stadium, 1973. It was snowing heavily that day. It turned out to be a famous game as that was the game OJ Simpson broke Jim Brown's rushing record, and became the first back to crack 2000 yards. We saw Simpson break the record and left at halftime due to the cold to go to the arcade at Adventurers Inn, in Flushing. I was eight years old. The other game was Giants v Saints at Shea Stadium in 1975. Doug Kotar was the Giants' star that day as he rushed for two TDs.
You have to understand that a lot of kids growing up in NY at the time didn't like the two home teams much because they were both terrible. For some reason I couldn't like the Jets, as my father did, they just seemed abysmal, it was the end of the Namath era and he was bad. In school I had friends who loved the Steelers, Vikings, Cowboys, Dolphins, etc. And they wore the hats and jackets of out of town teams. I almost liked the Dolphins but in 1974 they were beaten in dramatic fashion by the Oakland Raiders in a game immortalized as the "Sea of Hands" game. Ken Stabler led a dramatic comeback and threw a last second pass as he was falling down to Clarence Davis to dethrone one of the greatest champions in NFL history. I was nine years old and I became a Raiders fan. Mid-70s football was the best and had the greatest rivalry games. I agonized when the Raiders were beaten by the Steelers in 74 and 75, and I was euphoric when they went 13-1 and won the Super Bowl in dominant fashion in 76.
Stabler is my all-time favorite athlete. He was a renegade, bad boy, who was the coolest under pressure. And he was the best QB of the 70s.
Anyway, the one knock on Stabler is that he partied very hard, didn't take good care of himself, and he got old fast. When he left the Raiders I lost interest in the team. I still couldn't care for the Jets, in fact, even though my father loved them, and my brother in law loved them, both gone now, I sort of hated them and rooted against them. I wasn't a gentle soul like my dad, who couldn't root against any New York team.
Since we always watched the Giants together, we were in front of the TV when *the fumble* happened. I was sort of interested in the Giants that season because they had Larry Csonka. That was a wild day and I vividly remember how surreal it was. I was also interested in Troy Archer. My curiosity about the Giants was growing. And then they drafted Lawrence Taylor. My father may have loved the Jets most but he always respected the Giants Defense. He loved Brad Van Pelt and John Mendenhall. He would talk about them a lot. And then when the Giants had Carson and Taylor, they became a fun team to root for. My dad rooted for both NY teams through the 80s. But me, as my childhood Raiders fandom waned, I became a fierce Giants fan. In 86 we cheered together as the Giants slammed Joe Montana and the 49ers and I was away at college for the Washington game and the Super Bowl, but my dad taped the games for me so I could have them immortalized and we talked on the phone recapping each win.
So my interest in football dates back to around 1971/72. I watched the Giants all those years, but I would say I became a Giants fan around 1979-80. And since 82 they are my only team.
Yes. That's just how it was in New York in the 70s. The teams were bad and most of the kids rooted for mainly the Steelers and Cowboys, but Raiders, Vikings, Dolphins also had fans. I hated the Steelers and the Cowboys, and still do to this day. I hate the Cowboys much more than the Eagles or Washington, though I despised the 80s Redskins and 90s Eagles.
There were more Steelers fans than Giants and Jets fans combined when I was in junior high. Same with the Cowboys. In the 70s, grade schoolers didn't give a damn for the Giants and Jets. At least not around me.